Why are blueprints Mastery Locked?

[NeithanDiniem]

3 minutes ago, CitricComet said:

you know... 

My entire argument here (for this post) is: the MR locking system does not make sense.  It lacks logic.  

I do not dispute the need for it.  I do not dispute that one should exist.

I only want it to make sense...

I want to understand it with out having to spend 4 hours researching it and not gaining an understanding.

How frigging hard is it to but a simplistic explanation in the game as to how it works?

F* it.  I'm done.

Weapons are different levels of strength, determined by DPS. Those different levels are divided between different mastery ranks to restrict players to those power levels to give them a progression through the weapons vs a fully open mess. It also prevents players getting powerful gear early and blasting through the game content, ruining their experience because the game did not limit them. Ways through the Mastery locks exists, but only for those that flat out spent money for the ability to use that item. This is the exact same as other games. The exact formulas are different, but the mechanic is the same.

[KittySkin]

1 minute ago, CitricComet said:

you know... 

My entire argument here (for this post) is: the MR locking system does not make sense.  It lacks logic.  

I do not dispute the need for it.  I do not dispute that one should exist.

I only want it to make sense...

It actually makes sense. Higher POTENTIAL, much atention on the word POTENTIAL DPS weapons are high MR lock while lower potential DPS weapons are lower MR locked.
A weapon potential (IE maximum) DPS its tied to a lot of stats and specially to modding knowledge.

Low MR weapons have higher base damage, lower crit chance AND multipliers and lower status chance, that allows the weapon to scale well without much modding on it, but once you start slaping more mods the weapon stops to scale as well.
On the other hand high MR weapons have similar or even lower base damage, but higher critical chance and multiplier and higher status chance, this allow the weapon to scale well with full modding but stops them to be powerfull without the adecuate modding on them.
A prime example of this its the Tiberon Prime, the newly released prime primary. With good modding knowledge this weapon its a monster, without it this weapon cant even be used to break a glass.
Another good example its Sybaris Prime, the old "best primary rifle", high status, high crit chance, expensive as #*!% to mod, and without a DPS THAT HIGH this weapon destroyed everything because status counteracts enemy scalling and crit allows the weapon to start killing stuff prior to fully downscale it.

Weapons DPS and MR Lock cant be calculated properly on paper, you actually need to test and use them ingame, and there you realize why a Soma Prime its MR 7 while a Stradavar its MR10.

[NeithanDiniem]

1 minute ago, CitricComet said:

ok, so I read the post provided, and it does clearly state some intent on DE's part.  The intent, I get - perfectly logical.  The implementation of that intent, I believe is flawed.

I cannot speak to WoW, GW2, or many other MOMs, but I can speak to Destiny (which I did play for 2 years, grudgingly) or to many other single player games like Deus Ex, Tomb Raider and others.  Unlike many of those other games I am familiar with, in them - as you progress in level, you access better weaponry.  Simple, right?

But in Warframe, Mastery Rank (MR) is not linked to level.  An MR 1 is not restricted to Earth, an MR 2 is not restricted to Venus... and so on.  Technically, an MR anything can access Uranus.  It is not locked by planet.  It is not locked by junction nodes.  Further, MR is not locked by enemy level, nor is it locked by any other construct in the game itself.  An MR3, with the correct mods and weapons can play Ceres, Jupiter or whatever.

MR is nothing more then a count of how many weapons/frames you have ranked-up to achieve level 30 with.  Nothing more.

To equate MR with player performance is based only on an assumption.  (Actually, many, many assumptions.)

To lock a weapon to these assumptions is wrong - in my opinion.

In an attempted order to preempt some arguments, to be clear, I do not really care if DE decides/decided to MR lock some weapons.  That is perfectly acceptable to me - it gives me something to work forward to.  What I do not like, are those crap weapons that I have to rank up - and they are crap.  If I had to do it on earth before I had good weapons, I would not mind it.  But now... now that I have decent weapons?  Now it just sucks... 

There is no simple way for newer players to level these weapons quickly or efficiently, oh, yea, work your way to the end of the map - then it will all be easy...

I am not looking for easy.  I am looking for logic and sense.  

Right now... I cannot find it here.

Actually, junctions do limit you, and Uranus is locked based on quests, which are also MR and progress locked.

How is a character level in Destiny any different from Warframe? Experience for Warframe mastery and Destiny is purely based on "How many dudes did I kill?" and "How many missions have I done?" Warframe just has it where your experience gain from kills with a weapon are limited, requiring you to diversify instead of begrudgingly stick with only one weapons you started with.

It has nothing to do with player performance. A player can get to MR 25 in 25 days. It is simply and strictly as I listed out above.

Without locking the weapons you gank the entire player experience the moment a new player gets a hold of a powerful weapon. Imagine if your first weapon in Destiny 2 was the Gjallarhorn. What point would you have to try out 90% of any of the other weapons? They wouldn't stack up and most of the game's experience of working you way to a better weapon so you can handle the harder missions would be lost. Its just like in RPGs if they started you out with endgame equipment and abilities, the game itself would have no progression for you to achieve, just the same old same old dredge.

They aren't supposed to level them easily, which in this point you mean quickly so you can get way up in mastery fast. Its no different in Destiny 2, you aren't supposed to get Nemesis Star in your first 2-3 days of playing without actually putting time into the endeavor. No different here.

You aren't looking for logic and sense, you are looking for ease and immediate satisfaction. You can get that in Warframe if the weapon is purchased, otherwise, you work for it.

[CitricComet]

Also, these arguments about whether or not MR locking is rational has nothing to do with the true topic I posted.  Why does a blueprint need to be locked?  Why is it important to lock the blueprint and not the weapon itself?  Why can I not just build it in the foundry and let it sit there?

The entire point of this discussion is to try and answer why these items exist?  

My argument is that the MR lock should be on the weapon itself, not the build components.  Not the blueprint.  

Let me trade for it, let me build it - and lock it there in the foundry.  When I hit the MR, let me claim it.

Why in the hell, should I hit the MR first and then wait 3 more days to build the MR locked weapon that I have been holding on to for the last 3 months?

B***S***

 

[NeithanDiniem]

14 minutes ago, CitricComet said:

Also, these arguments about whether or not MR locking is rational has nothing to do with the true topic I posted.  Why does a blueprint need to be locked?  Why is it important to lock the blueprint and not the weapon itself?  Why can I not just build it in the foundry and let it sit there?

The entire point of this discussion is to try and answer why these items exist?  

My argument is that the MR lock should be on the weapon itself, not the build components.  Not the blueprint.  

Let me trade for it, let me build it - and lock it there in the foundry.  When I hit the MR, let me claim it.

Why in the hell, should I hit the MR first and then wait 3 more days to build the MR locked weapon that I have been holding on to for the last 3 months?

B***S***

 

Why they don't let you build the item that you cannot use:

2 hours ago, JuicyButthurt said:

You either lock the blueprints so the players cannot acquire them before they progress through the game or put the lock at the stage of building/acquisition which would result in plenty of players wondering "why the game let them buy/build the item while they cannot use it".

2 hours ago, _Vortus_ said:

DE had a choice to make.   I think they made the simpler choice.   There will be players like the op.   But, there will be players with those items wondering why they cannot build them. or worse, they built but cannot use them.    The decision they made saves them alot of support calls for players wondering why they cannot use something they built.

I think big red warning messages alerting them would be better.   But likely would still have players acquire/build the items and complain.

2 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

It was between allowing people to build the items and not be able to use them, causing a greater problem as the resources were spent and cant be gotten back now, or prevent players from building in the first place and they can put their resources towards something they CAN build or saving them for later, along with the blueprints, after they level some. There is a rather clear reason why they chose the one they did.

If this many people have to say the exact same thing, there is probably a reason for it. And again:

2 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

And as I mentioned in your other thread, your entire problem would be fixed by DE simply telling people the MR requirement for a weapon in the codex.

If someone knew in advance that they could not use it after building it, a vast majority of them wouldn't build it in the first place. They'd wait and build something else. Most players go look this up, but putting it in the codex would eliminate that need. Then why allow it at all? Just prevent them from building it in the first place entirely. Hence DE's reasoning. 3 days wait is absolutely NOTHING in this game. Go build Equinox and get back to us, or go farm Nitain for Vauban Prime, or go get the Cryotic for the Sibear, or the Mutagen Mass for Hema, or the Cetus Wisps for your full operator amp and arcane set, or your Eidolon arcanes for that matter. These all take more time for the average player than 3 days, even 30 days for some. 3 days is nothing when you have hundreds of other things you can do during the wait that will open up other things later in the game.