Survival + Kuva Surv (Thoughts & Feedback)

[1000deathpenalties]

This new game mode is pretty decent, especially for someone like me who loves endurance runs, but there are certain issues with it.

First of all, I think the amount of kuva should scale. e.g. It could increase by 50 every 25 minutes until it reaches a limit, say 400, and after that we continuously get that amount. Or you could implement the rotation method as well

A = 250, B = 300 & C = 350 preferably. 

or if you absolutely arent going to change the initial amount we receive then 

A = 200, B = 250 & C = 300

Second, spawn. This is an inherent problem with all survivals, not just kuva survival, but in kuva survival its more apparent. The kuva tileset is pretty huge so enemies take a long while to get to you which affects the life support.This problem is especially a huge issue in kuva endless as we are sacrificing our life support for kuva. Plus, Life Support RNG should also improve, and make it so that enemy spawn isnt so random, cause it has happens a lot that enemies just get stuck or dont spawn at all. in which case you have to find them which isnt helpful for maintaing L.S.

Third, make it so that we have a choice in the difficulty of the mission (by which I mean the scaling and enemy spawn), this is to make missions more soloable. A way to implement could be that endless nodes(can just be every node but thats up to you) has 3 options with it:

For an example i'll use VOID ANI - Survival Lvl 20-25

EASY - Current lvl i.e 20-25

MEDIUM - lvl 30-40 (spawn of 2 man squad)

HARD - lvl 40-50 (spawn of 3 man squad)

[iSkylines]

I honestly cant stress how much survival needs to be fixed its rediculous 

[xXHobbitXx]

the game mode is good for something different, but the reward of time to kuva isnt, unless you happen to get lucky with smeeta charm once or twice a 20m run, its faster and easier just to do other current kuva nodes and the flood mission for more kuva

[1000deathpenalties]

Well technically they never said it would be faster and to tell u the truth regardless of whether or not they change the reward I'm still going to play it because I love survivals and I personally found siphons and floods to be boring as hell. I'll do a flood if it pops up but siphons are just a huge no no.

[Caduzeus]

The problem with enemy spawns is that they only spawn two rooms/hallways away from you:

• First there is the room you (or other players) are in.
• Then there needs to be an empty room.
• Then the next empty room from the first empty room is a viable spawn-area.

The reasoning for this is simple: you can not be able to shoot enemies in their spawns, so there needs to be an empty room between your location and enemy spawn.

Large rooms next to each other tend to be very problematic, since players' distance to enemy spawns can easily be in the excess of 300 meters. The problem becomes even more pronounced if a team is not strictly limiting themselves to a single room at a time. Anyone leaving a room will push the spawns away, sometimes several hundred meters.

One solution would be to balance the number of enemies spawned based on the distance to the players' room. That way the same number of enemies/minute would be available, independent of the rooms surrounding you.

And concerning the Kuva survivals: if it was fixed amounts per rotation, people would still only do 20 minute runs and then restart the mission. It would not reward long sessions.

Endless missions should be more... endless. I would propose a fixed increase per completed Kuva filter. If the increase was 5 per filter, you could make 12k in the first hour without boosters, 20k in the second and third hour would give 28k. As an example.

[fluffysnowcap]

1 hour ago, Caduzeus said:

Endless missions should be more... endless. I would propose a fixed increase per completed Kuva filter. If the increase was 5 per filter, you could make 12k in the first hour without boosters, 20k in the second and third hour would give 28k. As an example.

Perhaps you are after something like one of these ideas.

12 hours ago, fluffysnowcap said:

1. Void fissure style scaling added to all endless missions. Example below.

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Reward Intervals

The reward intervals per mission type are as followed:

• Defense: 5 waves
• Interception: 1 round
• Survival: 5 minutes
• Excavation: 200 Cryotic

Bonuses per Interval

• Every reward interval, you get a predetermined booster. These boosters stack the longer you stay and are capped at double.

1. The first interval: 1.25x Affinity.
2. The second interval: 1.25x Credits Booster. (affects credit cashes)
3. The third interval: 1.25x Resources Booster. (effects missions resources IE, Kuva and Cryotic as well as rewards)
4. The fourth interval: 1.25x Resource Drop Rate.
5. The fifth interval: This one will be the largest change replacing the random Exceptional Relic With a planets appropriate rare resource (Affected by Resources Boosters)
6. The sixth interval: 1.5x Affinity (replaces first).
7. The seventh interval: 1.5x Credits (replaces second).
8. The eighth interval: 1.5x Resources (replaces third).
9. The ninth interval: 1.5x Resource Drop Rate (replaces fourth).
10. The tenth interval: a planets appropriate rare resource (Same amount as the first time to prevent runaway scaling, Affected by Resources Boosters)

• Boosters continue to increase every set of intervals and are capped at double (2x). After the nineteenthinterval, all boosters will have reached their cap.

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200 Kuva per Tower

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Kuva per minutes breakdown of this method (assuming 100% of life support towers become kuva and fifth interval gives 400 kuva) 

 0 to 15 minutes, 11 towers = 2200 Kuva 146.6 Kuva per minutes

 15 to 40minutes, 16 towers = 4500 Kuva 180 Kuva per minutes      | 0 to 40 minutes, 27 towers = 6700 Kuva 167.5 Kuva per minutes

 50 to 65 minutes, 17 towers = 5700 Kuva 228 Kuva per minutes     | 0 to 65 minutes, 44 towers = 12400 Kuva 190.7 Kuva per minutes

 65 to 90 minutes, 16 towers = 6300 Kuva 252 Kuva per minutes     | 0 to 90 minutes, 60 towers = 18700 Kuva 207.7 Kuva per minutes

 90 to 115 minutes, 17 towers = 7600 Kuva 304 Kuva per minutes   | 0 to 115 minutes, 77 towers = 26300 Kuva 228.6 Kuva per minutes

250 Kuva per Tower

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Kuva per minutes breakdown of this method (assuming 100% of life support towers become kuva and fifth interval gives 400 kuva) 

 0 to 15 minutes, 11 towers = 2750 Kuva 183.3 Kuva per minutes

 15 to 40minutes, 16 towers = 5500 Kuva 220 Kuva per minutes      | 0 to 40 minutes, 27 towers = 8250 Kuva 206.2 Kuva per minutes

 50 to 65 minutes, 17 towers = 6975 Kuva 279 Kuva per minutes     | 0 to 65 minutes, 44 towers = 15225 Kuva 234.2 Kuva per minutes

 65 to 90 minutes, 16 towers = 7700 Kuva 308 Kuva per minutes     | 0 to 90 minutes, 60 towers = 22925 Kuva 254.7 Kuva per minutes

 90 to 115 minutes, 17 towers = 9300 Kuva 372 Kuva per minutes   | 0 to 115 minutes, 77 towers = 32225 Kuva 280.2 Kuva per minutes

 

300 will surpass back to back Floods so i didn't crunch the numbers.

2. Increasing by a fixed amount per Life support tower, balanced so for the first 20 minutes is between Kuva siphons and floods; however past 40 minutes it should have the greatest Kuva to time investment you can achieve them game. All scaling capping at 1 hour.

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Link to the source.

Current Kuva per minute.

Flood's 243.2, Siphon's 130.3 Kuva Suvival 128

Ideally Kuva Survival should give approximately 190 Kuva per minute for the first 20 minutes, and approximately 250 Kuva per minute for the first 40 minutes.

There are 13.3 Life support towers in 20 minutes That's one every 90 seconds, not including the one that spawns at the very beginning.

so we need scaling that works per tower to create an out come of 190 ish kuva per minute.

OH god i need to work out 14(X+(YxN))÷20=190   wish i remembered how to do Compound interest\integers

Examples. X is the Life support towers and Y is the scaling per tower

20 minutes

X=200 and Y=10   |   X=200 and Y=15   |   X=200 and Y=20  |   X=200 and Y=25  |

14(X+(YxN))÷20=   |   14(X+(YxN))÷20=   | 14(X+(YxN))÷20=   | 14(X+(YxN))÷20=     |

         185.3               |             218.75           |             231               |           253.75              | Kuva per minutes

         3710              |           4375             |            4620            |           5075              | Total Kuva

 

40 minutes

X=200 and Y=10   |   X=200 and Y=15   |   X=200 and Y=20  |   X=200 and Y=25  |

28(X+(YxN))÷20=   |   28(X+(YxN))÷20=   | 28(X+(YxN))÷20=   | 28(X+(YxN))÷20=     |

         234.5               |            281.75            |          320                  |            376.25             | Kuva per minutes

         9380             |            11270           |           12800           |           15050             | Total Kuva

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My personal opinion of the two possibilities is that Void fissure style scaling to all endless will be more fitting to the game as a whole. Compared to a fixed percentage or integer increase that will suffer from the possibility of runaway scaling, or initial rewards that are completely underwhelming.

 

I would be at a miss if i didn't include a flat buff to the kuva drops argument.

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examples in this tab are done under hypothetically perfect conditions

20 minute Runs Kuva per minute (14 life support towers)      |    optimal 7 minute Runs Kuva per minutes (5 life support towers)

                     Flat 200  =  2800   Kuva 140 Kuva per minute         |            Flat 200  =  1000   Kuva 142.8 Kuva per minute

                     Flat 225  =  3150   Kuva 157.5 Kuva per minute      |            Flat 225  =  1125   Kuva 160.7 Kuva per minute

                     Flat 250  =  3500   Kuva 175 Kuva per minute         |            Flat 250  =  1250   Kuva 178.5 Kuva per minute

                     Flat 275  =  3850   Kuva 192.5 Kuva per minute      |            Flat 275  =  1375   Kuva 196.4 Kuva per minute

                     Flat 300  =  4200   Kuva 210 Kuva per minute         |            Flat 300  =  1500   Kuva 214.2 Kuva per minute

additional notes "A flat increase would be the easiest one to balance but wouldn't encourage longer survival at all, and since i believe endless missions need a second pass and going long should be disproportionately rewarded to a certain extent, as come one the mission type is about going the extra mile"

 

[Caduzeus]

2 hours ago, fluffysnowcap said:

Perhaps you are after something like one of these ideas.

 

I like scaling, but I am not a huge fan of capping the gains.

If people want to brave 3 hours of survival, let them have the huge gains for all that time spent. Some folks are gonna argue "blaa blaa Riven markets blaa" but honestly, it would be the reality 99% of us want: people have a lot more Kuva -> a lot more good Rivens become available -> prices drop.

Besides, we have nuclear weapons in this game like Lanka; let us use them for something productive for once!

[fluffysnowcap]

7 hours ago, Caduzeus said:

I like scaling, but I am not a huge fan of capping the gains.

Unfortunately I think a limit is needed for my preferred masthead of void style as it want to see that act like it douse in the void. Making plastics farming quicker as I have a dojo to decorate.

[-Fe-McHamm3rShot]

Is anyone else getting nasty framerate drops during this mission?  It seems to me like the tileset needs massive optimization.

[Acersecomic]

The non-scaling kuva rewards, and nonscaling rewards in endurace runs in general is just utter bollocks.

I just did a 32 minute run with all but two towers used for Kuva and I got 3800 kuva... like... what a waste of time and effort... Seriously DE, one thins EEEEEEEVERYONE has been repeating over and over again like a parrot since day one, it's like one thing that no post goes without, is SCALE REWARDS!!!!!!!!!