Warframe concept: Raja (with concept sketches)

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Warframe Concept

Raja
The ultimate Melee Frame, the "Master of Arms" (was that PUN? yes, pun intended) It's also an "army of one."
The core of his abilities are built around either harnessing or generating the kinetic energy of movement (epitomized by dance and his namesake, the nataraja, lord of dance) or magnifying it to enhance his strikes. (as well as the "avatar" concept of multiple facets of the warframe's self)

Notes on the name:

Spoiler

    If the name must reference some historical/mythical figure for familiarity/theme: Shiva or Durga (male or female) I prefer male.

    If it can be a fun reference without stepping on copyright toes: Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy reference, as he was a multiarmed boss using several weapons in multiple games) although that ties in thoughts of Enkidu as a possible Kubrow pet that doesn't fit this frame.

        The name could be Raja/Nataraja (Lord of Dance) (themes of the Lasya - creation dance, and Tandava - destruction dance could be incorporated more fully into the abilities or animations) (however, I would not stick too closely to the distinct features of the religious figure's iconography) There is a common theme of these figures having "avatars" that embodied different parts of their personalities or when they took action in a certain way, so his abilities drew on this "avatar" feature.)

    The name could also be: Gatkabaj (even Gatka) or Doh-baha or Harihara (based on the Gatka martial arts, sometimes called the "mother of all martial arts" or "Shastar Vidiya" in India - Typical Gatka weapons include the talwar (sword), tegh (sword), khanda (sword), chakram (circle-based weapon), bagh nakh (metal claw), barcha (spear), etc.) More inspiration for this frame's abilities *could* be taken from research of the Gatka combat styles (offensive yuddha-vidiya and defensive Sava-raksha) The combat styles incorporate many weapons, and almost always with "both hands full" either dual wielding or with sword and shield, which fits the theme of this frame well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatka)

For his name, I like simply: Raja. (or Nataraja - but might get confusing with Natah)

Appearance: (Sadly, my old stylus and tablet doesn't want to work in Win10, so I did some crude pencil drawings and took cell phone pictures of them, and did some mouse-editing to clean them up and add color, so proportions are off, as I'd generally draw and erase and resize and junk digitally later)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Historical reference: Shiva as the Nataraja:

Shiva during the Tandava, dance of destruction:

Shiva meditating:

Normal color he's depicted as having:

 

 

His default color scheme is a light blue to pewter "skin", navy "clothing", and gold or bronze armor. (other appropriate colors would be royal purples and reds)

Athletic male warrior with six arms. (not body-builder muscular, despite what the crude sketches may imply)

Partial plate armor (on his back and shoulders, upper arms, wrist gauntlets, and knee guards) and clearly "unprotected" skin-like areas and "clothing" melded with his body - looks as if he has a bare chest and a vest-like garment. The legs have an individual-leg-skirt-like appearance down to the knees (not skin tight armor), and a flowing "loin cloth sash." Both the legs and sash having "armored" bottom edges, (perhaps the sash's bottom edge is even sharpened to be weaponized), with the sash hanging from an armored girdle, all in golden mehndi designs on what would be "fabric".

Spoiler

He has two physical arms and four armored "energy" arms socketed in armor around the shoulderblade area. This socket could potentially rotate or shift somehow, and lock the arms in place that are using his currently wielded weapon. When weapons are not "actively wielded", they are "holstered" by being held by these extra arms in a mostly rigid display similar to iconic indian statues. These extra arms are only "used" during the 4th ability, to reduce the needed animations for a frame with multiple arms - so they're mostly cosmetic and thematic until being used in the 4th ability.

If possible, a customization option should be available to select arm posture for when the energy arms are not in use. These arms would be holding the "holstered" weapons that are not currently active - he can Single-handedly "holster-hold" two-handed weapons. If possible, also select which arm is holding which holstered weapon. I know this might cause problems for fluidity in animations for switching weapons... but there are always ways around that... like having the energy arms "instantly" switch places with the currently active physical arms, without a transition "animation" as such. I'm sure this could be worked out ;)

The skins should involve Mehndi/mehendi/henna body painting (on both "Armor" and "skin" areas, preferrably on arms, legs, back and chest (the image of the possible arm layout, side view, had a little of the mehndi on his chest - it's not chest hair, just a bad sketch) - either glowing with the energy color of the frame, or creating a darker contrasting framework over larger open areas of energy glowing from within the frame - and there's the basic option of non-glowing designs on the armor too. (or a stylish mix of the three) Perhaps to defy expectations, the Mehndi could be the frame's armor, creating separate shapes of armor floating slightly off the actual warframe's body - more like the mehndi style designs on clothing, mainly radiating away from the neck. (I would avoid certain symbols, like the sun on the palms of the hands) The Mehndi designs could potentially be treated like Sigils... but those have a whole system of syndicate stuff built around them, and I don't know how detailed they can get, compared to skins. (and this is too core to the character's appearance to make "optional" through sigils.) (The inevitable Graxx skin could use the Grineer door lock aesthetic for inspiration.)

Mehndi reference image:

Mehndi on clothing:

Since players mostly see the back of the warframe's body, this core visual concept can be put to good use, and it gives the frame a unique identifying feature to easily distinguish it from the rest. (the four extra glowing arms are a big thing there too, but you know...)

His "hair" is represented on the Warframe's helmet as flat metal-fabric "dreadlocks" of independent armor plates, each tapering to a point, with a glowing jewel (or warframe-y light of some sort) near the end, forming his "helmet" while not moving, with a length down to just between the shoulderblades, in 3 length layers getting shorter as they go up, the next at shoulder height, the last at the top of the neck. They would rise and separate as he spins in his attacks, to add more centrifugal emphasis on his movements. (3 arcs of energy could crackle between the jewels along the bottom edge of the dreadlocks of each of the three "layers", when they separate, for more visual flair and draw attention to the force pulling them up and away from his head and back.) (The prime version would have more elaborate jewelry on these helmet/hair plates, and possibly Mehndi markings.) I'd suggest there be an inner light glowing from within his helmet under the armor.

This frame may have trouble using a Syandana stylishly... likely many clipping issues with all those arms - but not impossible to get to look good.  Maybe using the auxilliary slot for decorations instead (like his loin sash), would be a more practical way to accessorize him. A scarf hanging from around the back of his neck, and over the chest to each side (but not wrapped around the front toward the back) would be another decorative option. Also, a sash diagonally across the chest from shoulder to hip might work well with the "Raja" visual theme.

The frame's idle animations can make use of typical Indian statue poses (standing on one leg, perhaps similar to some images I've seen of Nezha.)

There is a sub-theme of "3's" in his design, 3 sets of arms, 3 layers of his leg armor/skirt, 3 tiers of helmet hair (and 9 plates on each tier), 3 weapons circle you in his 3rd ability, 3 zones of damage in his 4th ability, 3 petals on the Lotus Trishula, etc. It's not super important, but creates a sense of subconscious cohesion.

(honestly, I'm surprised a frame based on some of these concepts hasn't happened sooner, due to all the heavy Lotus symbology in Warframe. Maybe this theme was set as off-limits for some reason, or held in reserve for a Warframe that did it justice?)

Important conditions:

• The primary condition for the frame: ONLY able to equip Melee weapons in all 3 weapon slots. Cannot wield guns of any kind - MAYBE gunblades, but that feels like cheating on this frame. (though Glaives would be an OK middleground - I would not restrict their being thrown.)
• Switches weapons as fast as "Warframe's engine"-ly possible.

Passive:

• Untouched Lotus
  Has a type of innate "Reflex Guard" - with the important difference that it is especially attuned to attacks from behind as well as frontal attacks - as if the arms move of their own accord, not requiring your warframe seeing the attack coming. (graphic effect of parrying is a "holographic" version of yourself attacking with one of your two currently un-equipped weapons - the two arms that were equipping the parrying weapon dematerialize and this holographic copy springs to life facing the direction from which the attack came, for a split second to parry before disappearing, and the arms reform in their resting positions)
• Optional additional passive: More of a flavor/logical stat: increased damage/attack-range during bullet jumps for each weapon equipped, as you are bristling with weapons.

Ability 1:
Kinetic Afterimage
(50 energy)
For a short time, all melee attacks are accompanied by an energy-based afterimage attack.
 

Spoiler

(appears like you have two more "holographic" arms of energy overlaying your current arms, and when you strike, they follow each movement with a delay of a split second after each melee swing.)
The Afterimage strikes (not initial hits) are treated like "channeled" strikes and benefit from channeled modifiers and effects. (this is partially a fix to the current channeling mechanics that make each individual hit drain energy, which can quickly deplete your reserves, and this frame needs better energy economy than that. Even if channeling is changed in the future, this set cost for a duration is still of benefit due to its interactions with the other abilities - especially since at least the second ability is also channeled.)

* Potentially, maybe as an Augment: Higher ranks of this skill could increase the number of afterimages that strike after each attack, up to 3. (needs careful balance)

This first ability was my attempt to incorporate the frame's core concept of magnifying and releasing the kinetic energy of dance (and his multiple arms) as an integral part of the character's moment to moment usage, in the flow of combat. You always feel like this frame is different from others. The melee combat becomes the dance, and all movement in the area (his own, and the movement of the enemies, and even the movement of the planet or ship they're fighting in) all become power generators that he can harness and transform into the kinetic afterimage attacks that follow his own movements. This isn't tied into any game mechanic per se - of gathering movement-based data and making an active charge that players have to manage - (that felt clunky to think about) but it's the logic behind it.

 

Ability 2:
Avatar Projection
(Very low initial cost, channeled - energy drain may be similar to razorwing - maybe higher only while you are regenerating health)
Assuming a floating meditative stance with six arms fanned in array, a glowing 3rd eye of energy/light opens in your "forehead", and you project a kinetic avatar into fist-combat-range of a distant target (even flying Dargyns on the plains of eidolon - regardless of the actual combat range, just to simplify placement of the attack) to attack with melee strikes as long as you keep the enemy targeted. (while Ability 1 is active, this avatar will benefit from afterimage attacks) The avatar will attack with "quick attack" strikes, not using the stance mod'd into the weapon.

In this state, your meditative self is vulnerable to attacks - unable to move until you release this channeled ability, but can still benefit from its innate reflex guard passive. The warframe regenerates health during this meditation - the frame is very offense oriented (aside from its 3), and could use a self-sustain feature in at least one of its abilities due to the nature of higher level and nightmare content, and this fits to me. (The initial name I gave this ability was Kinetic Projection, a play on the concept of Astral Projection)

This ability attempts to patch a hole in the frame's capabilities due to its being limited to only melee weapons, and some enemies relying on you having some sort of ranged attack capability.

 

(Abilities 3 and 4 could be switched with each other)

Ability 3:
Lasya Bladewall
(could simply be called either "Bladewall" or "Lasya", the creation dance, "creating" due to its' creating a barrier and more, see details below)
(has a set "medium length" duration, and range is similar to the basic snow globe, however, it moves with you - unlike Snow Globe, acting more like Zephyr's Turbulence, with a twist)
(75 energy)

• Protects a small area from all incoming external ranged attacks. (enemies inside the area are unaffected.)
• Each intercepted bullet grants you one point of energy from the kinetic energy drained from the projectile when it hit the wall.
• Parrying attacks yourself (either manually, or via the passive), within Lasya, also grants energy as if the barrier was hit by a bullet.
• This ability will shield allies/defense targets within the radius of the bladewall for the duration.
• The Lasya bladewall creates random ammo drops (from bullets that it intercepts) and energy orbs (from beam and flame thrower attacks) around its perimeter from all the kinetically drained projectiles, mainly for your team mates to use (since you're not using guns) but also for yourself, in the case of energy orbs.

Spoiler

See first image of Shiva as the Nataraja for the flaming globe around him being the Lasya bladewall's inspiration.

 

Special note: it can be augmented by melee blocking/parry mods (even though it's not technically during channeling like most require) such as:

• Reflection
• Focused Defense
• Parry

Reasoning behind this skill: The biggest threat to this frame will be ranged attacks, since they can attack you the entire time you're trying to close the distance to be in range to kill them, and while you're dealing with one enemy, you're usually being pelted from all sides by trigger-happy hordes. Ash already has the teleporting thing. Other frames use invisibility. This frame focuses on using weapons attacking multiple times, and blocking/deflecting with weapons, and kinetic avatars to be an "army of one."

The frame also needs a little survivability bump, so it's not entirely offense focused.

Energy clones of your 3 weapons begin spinning around you in an atomic electron pattern to visually represent the spherical limits of the area defended (alternately, the glowing energy-Mehndi designs on your armor could expand out from your armor to form this spherical limit - but with this pattern changing depending on skins, it would be less likely to be a possiblity for the ability to change based on the skin). When incoming weapon'sfire is detected, a kinetic clone of each weapon will take turns blocking the attacks (if the whole energy avatar body wielding the weapons looks better or more dynamic, go with that, but I figured with a large number of incoming bullets, showing only the weapons briefly appearing and disappearing all over the place would make more sense and would be more visually clean and less distracting), (all incoming ranged attacks will be nullified like this) and the kinetic energy from those attacks is absorbed as energy so the bullets sprinkle to the ground at the perimeter of the bladewall. The cloned energy weapon that is blocking a beam or flamethrower attack will remain blocking a continuous attack, not being constantly replaced with different weapons over time.)

Because this bladewall is absorbing all kinetic energy directed at it, "punch-through" will be stopped as well. In fact, if something has "punch-through" properties, it might benefit the wall more than a normal attack, granting even more energy from blocking it.

This ability has the potential to be self-sustaining energy-wise, if enough enemies are shooting at you for the duration to re-initiate it once it goes down, and especially possible against Corpus laser-firing units due to the energy orbs created by the wall. Unlike Snow Globe with its infinite duration, but limited health, the more enemies attacking your bladewall, the better.

Also unlike Snow Globe, Bladewall does nothing to stop/hinder enemies moving through the barrier or melee attacks. Once an enemy is within the perimeter, their projectiles are no longer intercepted, so you're no longer safe.

(If you activate "Avatar Projection" while the Bladewall is active,  the frame's innate reflex guard's activation rate increases to help mitigate incoming melee damage, which is not reliable, but is at least "something" - and it lets you attack enemies that are outside of the bladewall, while it defends a location or your allies from projectile attacks.)

In effect, this ability lets you limit the effective battlefield to "melee range only", and enemies trying to attack from a distance are able to be "ignored" for the most part, to let you focus on the battle at hand. (smart enemy AI would try to get inside this barrier, but we all know the lines of grineer troops will still mindlessly blast away as they walk toward it.)

 

Ability 4:
Tandava (or whirling dervish - a dance of destruction)
(possibly channeled, or could have a set duration with a high startup cost)

Description:
Your warframe uses its four energy-based arms, in addition to your physical arms, to wield all 3 of your melee weapons at the same time (not just to hold them holstered).
Spinning in a frenzy, with increased movement speed, you attack everything in range with an unstoppable flurry of attacks, immune to ragdolling from things like enemy proximity slams, fire walls, and whip-like snares (for fun, whip-like snares might pull the enemy into your range instead!) Your basic damage "cyclone" has 3 overlapping ranges based on your weapons' ranges. (your arms are all outstretched, flourishing in attack patterns while you spin like a blender of death)
At rank 2, a spinning "kinetic energy avatar" (also with 6 arms) will join you, primarily equipping the "next" weapon equipped.
At rank 4, a second spinning kinetic energy avatar will join you, primarily equipping the remaining weapon equipped after that.

Spoiler

 

The order of used weapons would be based on the order of your primary, secondary and "melee" slots. So if you had your "melee" weapon equipped, the first avatar would use your primary, and 2nd would use secondary. If you were equipped with your secondary, the first avatar would use the "melee" weapon, and 2nd would use the primary.  (All avatars wield all of your weapons, it's just the primarily equipped weapons that change)

The first avatar will quickly circle you clockwise, just outside of your current melee weapon's range (but possibly within the overlapping range of your other two weapons), and your 2nd avatar will circle even faster, counterclockwise, outside of the first avatar's range. (both with initial locations out in front of your character - their paths always "pass each other" in front of you and behind you on each rotation, from their starting locations - to get an idea for their respective movement speeds and pattern, regardless of their respective attack ranges - meaning that a longer range weapon used on the 2nd avatar will move faster than a shorter range weapon because it has a slightly longer distance to travel on the outer edge. These consistent, predictable damage "intersections" will also help to focus damage on tougher enemies despite the widespread nature of the attack.)

A single activation of this ability will always have the avatars circle at least one full rotation, and spamming the attack on and off will not speed this up (so people can't exploit the initial start positions for rapid multiple strikes faster than the rotation would allow.)

• This ability may ignore all range mods on weapons so things don't get too crazy, simply using their base melee ranges, but not discounting frame-based ability range mods.
• It is not considered a "spin attack".
• The ability is not meant to be an "ultimate" so much as a signature attack style vs a horde - this frame has very limited Crowd Control utility compared to others. (if this has a set cost instead of channeling, it should be less than 100 energy, or it needs to stay active for a lot longer than Stomp because it's not instant damage, and it's extremely limited Crowd Control - at most, 2 enemies get distracted at a time, for very brief periods)

The avatars do not count as minions or targetable units, they are just for graphic effect of the ability's range.
When an energy avatar encounters an enemy, an afterimage of that avatar remains in melee combat with the first enemy encountered, for either the duration of 5 regular attacks, or the highest combo based on the level of the stance equipped on the avatar's associated weapon - keeping the enemy "distracted", while it's circling counterpart continues circling and damaging enemies that it comes into contact with, but not producing any new distraction avatars until the first is gone.

There is some strategy to be applied here, due to ranges of different weapons. If you activate this ability while wielding a dagger, the first avatar will circle you tightly using perhaps a sword, so its attacks overlap the dagger range, and if you used a staff or polearm for your other weapon, this would create a tight kill zone with concentrated damage. However, if you use all weapons with large ranges, you can wipe out large swathes of weaker enemies quickly, or deal with evasive flying or crawling enemies that like to keep at a distance. (it is important for this ability to have some extra vertical range to it, rather than being simply a horizontal disk of death)  (Imagine wielding all 3 sparring fist weapons... the tight kill zone would resemble Sabin's "bum rush" from Final Fantasy 6)

While your first ability is active, all of your personal (not avatars') Tandava attacks benefit from the double attacks.
You cannot use your second ability while your fourth is active.
Lasya Bladewall will remain in effect for its duration, but cannot be re-started during your fourth.

Image of Tandava in action (Red area is yourself, Blue is your 1st avatar's path, Green is your 2nd Avatar's path)

(Possible Augment: Bullet-jump defensive effects apply to you and it treats your movements as bullet-jumping against enemies you touch during this dance)

 

General notes

Spoiler

To address the issue of rigging multiple arms and problems with animating such a model:
All abilities that make use of your alternate melee weapons wielded by your energy arms to attack, can use animations done by an entirely intangible holographic/energy based avatar body that overlaps your real self, so no new animations are needed to deal with extra arms for each attack - no extra rigging to see how multiple arms could attach to a human model or every attack; no worries about stances and their complex attack animations. The arms should stay mostly rigid... maybe extending/contracting during jumps and such, but not during attacks. However, until attacks are performed by the arms wielding the extra weapons, only the energy arms appear on the model; the holographic kinetic avatar only appears during the attack, perhaps "linked at the hip" with the physical character model, and this only really happens during the automatic parry. During the Tandava ability, it would have special animations regardless, so this is no different than any other frame getting its own ability. (however, if the individual animations looks good enough, they could be used instead of the secondary holographic self.)

 

---
For this frame, "Dual wielding" as a game mechanic actually works with the active main weapon (Primary OR Secondary weapon) and "melee" slot. Stance attacks during dual wield are based on either the "Trigger" or "quick melee" buttons respectively, rather than exclusively using the melee attack button. This warframe is capable of dualwielding both two-handed weapons, a one-handed and two-handed weapon, or two one-handed weapons, due to its extra arms. (if dual wield of this nature is extended to other frames, I expect it to be limited to only two one-handed melee weapons or one one-handed weapon and a secondary gun-type weapon.) This allows the frame to make use of the glaive's "gun and glaive" style, if the glaive is in the melee slot...

OR (more likely) there could be an interface option on the Arsenal screen that lets you assign two weapons as your dual wield selections, marking one as the Primary/Secondary weapon, that once equipped lets you use your selected "other" weapon as the dual wielded weapon. This separation from the list of equipped weapons  would allow freedom of the placement of equipped weapons for use during Tandava considerations (ranges and which weapon/avatar is in which position).

 

---
Stat-wise for this frame: (I'm not going to list numbers)

• I'd opt for a higher health stat than shields, using shields to mainly handle attacks that slip through the counters and blocks.
• It would have a good armor value, as the frame has few recovery options.
• Fast movement would be key to this frame's success on the battlefield with only melee weapons.
• The frame needs energy to 'survive' and perform most of its essential trademark functions, so a respectable energy pool is expected.

 

---
This frame's 3 signature melee weapons (potentially to have prime versions) would be: (all 3 are pictured in my colored front/back sketches)

• Dual Patas (sword gauntlets - could be used like Ripkas. They are very visually interesting, and their parrying/blocking posture would be forming a protective X in front of you, which, when translated to the holographic versions used in Bladewall, would work very well. Raja's sword gauntlets would have the pata blades vertical and sharpened to a point, rather than flat and horizontal, for style rather than practicality, as the original horizontal design and flexible blades of Marathi patas allowed them to be concealed and worn like belts, something Raja doesn't need to worry about.)
• Twin Golden Tiger Fang Zaghnal (one-handed bladed battle hammers, looks like a long golden tiger's tooth for the primary damaging surface - probably used like a "hand scythe" in Warframe's combat system. The visual style reminiscent of Tigers is a very "india" thing.)
• Lotus Trishula (a spear with 3 blades at the end - almost all the multi-armed figures in Indian imagery include a three-bladed spear - could have a more "lotus" shape for warframe's theme)

Other contenders:

• Katars, but they'd take the same spot as patas for this frame, so I went for the more exotic weapon.
• Kukri daggers... again, Patas felt more fun for this frame.
• Talwar would replace the Zaghnal, range-wise, so I went for the more exotic again.
• Urumi (multi-"saw-sword" whip) fits the combat style, but not as stylish as the options I chose ;)
• Nagni Barcha spear... good visual wavey spear blade, but not as represented in ancient art.
• Khanda... hacking saw sword. Good heavy combat weapon, but not stylistically good for the dancing combat style most associated with this frame.

 

Spoiler

As a side note:
Due to having 8 appendages (6 arms, 2 legs), I wanted to merge this frame's concept with my wall-walking infinite-wall-grasp spidery stealthframe concept, but figured that gave it too much utility and overall, lacked focus when combined. I do think this game could use a frame that treats walls like floors, though with Warframe's current direction being toward open world environments, it will become less and less universally useful of a trait - but there are ways around that... which I might present if I put that concept forward on its own.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by (PS4)AyinDygra
Edited for Clarity/Consistency; divided more stuff into spoilers, to make the main post more concise (Figured out embedding images) added reference images

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

Interesting

[(PSN)SmartCaveman626]

isnt melee frame just excalibur? just like gun frame is mesa?

 

(not trying to shoot down the idea, its amazing and id like to see the loadout feature in the game)

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)stoopidcaveman said:

isnt melee frame just excalibur? just like gun frame is mesa?

Excalibur is sword ninja frame. (his radial blind is more like a ninja's smoke screen or flash bomb)

He can still use guns as well as his exalted weapon.

I mean, you could logically call any exalted weapon frame a "melee frame" conceptually... but Raja can ONLY use melee weapons, has abilities that enhance melee attacks, and reduce the effective battlefield to melee range.

 

[(PSN)SmartCaveman626]

Excaliburs passive gives +10% melee speed And damage to nikanas, swords, rapiers, dual swords

[(XBOX)TriXhunt]

Excalibur isn't melee frame but sword frame

[(PSN)SmartCaveman626]

swords are melee

1 hour ago, (XB1)TriXhunt said:

Excalibur isn't melee frame but sword frame

 

[(PSN)Kabrys_]

Funny how much effort you put into this. I could nitpick a lot of things, but I'll just say this: 

I can't imagine DE adding a frame that can only equip one weapon class. Maybe next time create a concept around what you can imagine DE adding, not some childish OC.

I mean, 6 arms? I can maybe see that as a nice detail when he activates an ability, but having some brightly colored frame running around with 6 arms barely looks like he's in the same game as the other professionally designed frames.

Edited April 20, 2018 by (PS4)Kabrys_

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Kabrys_ said:

I can't imagine DE adding a frame that can only equip one weapon class. Maybe next time create a concept around what you can imagine DE adding, not some childish OC. I mean, 4 arms? I can see that as a nice detail when he activates an ability, but having some brightly colored frame running around with 4 arms barely looks like he's in the same game as the other professionally designed frames.

I'm sorry you see it that way. I'll have to chalk that up to a lack of imagination really.

The concept of this frame would be lost if he could equip guns, and for me, a frame that only uses melee weapons would be great fun. I hate using guns. Aiming and shooting is not my thing. If this game didn't have melee weapons, I wouldn't play. There is enough diversity in melee weapons to make a combination of 3 very fun for me (if only to take advantage of the 3 IPS damage types, or the niche bonuses of certain weapons, like the Health restoration of Hirudo, while I wouldn't take on entire missions with the Hirudo.)

It is entirely within the realm of possibility that they'd add a frame like this, in my opinion. And it's not "some childish original concept"... it's based on iconic mythological figures (Shiva/Durga - google them), like several warframes we already have (such as Wukong and Nezha).

With the outrageous color pallets available, I see garish, outlandish color schemes every time I visit a relay. My proposed default color scheme doesn't even come close. I mean, we have OCTAVIA... and Oberon... and Nezha (again, he's a childish prince, so they kept his playfulness in tact for his model and animations... a giant ring circling around him? a frame with 4 energy-based arms is in no way out of place.)

I'm sorry my concept sketches weren't up to the quality of professional concept art or 3D models. They're rough pencil sketches with minor digital clean-up. I feel that if I were to have produced "professional" quality concept art, you wouldn't be nearly put off as you have been, by the "crayon-like" quality of my highly magnified tiny pencil sketches.

 

[(PSN)SmartCaveman626]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

I'm sorry you see it that way. I'll have to chalk that up to a lack of imagination really.

The concept of this frame would be lost if he could equip guns, and for me, a frame that only uses melee weapons would be great fun. I hate using guns. Aiming and shooting is not my thing. If this game didn't have melee weapons, I wouldn't play. There is enough diversity in melee weapons to make a combination of 3 very fun for me (if only to take advantage of the 3 IPS damage types, or the niche bonuses of certain weapons, like the Health restoration of Hirudo, while I wouldn't take on entire missions with the Hirudo.)

It is entirely within the realm of possibility that they'd add a frame like this, in my opinion. And it's not "some childish original concept"... it's based on iconic mythological figures (Shiva/Durga - google them), like several warframes we already have (such as Wukong and Nezha).

With the outrageous color pallets available, I see garish, outlandish color schemes every time I visit a relay. My proposed default color scheme doesn't even come close. I mean, we have OCTAVIA... and Oberon... and Nezha (again, he's a childish prince, so they kept his playfulness in tact for his model and animations... a giant ring circling around him? a frame with 4 energy-based arms is in no way out of place.)

I'm sorry my concept sketches weren't up to the quality of professional concept art or 3D models. They're rough pencil sketches with minor digital clean-up. I feel that if I were to have produced "professional" quality concept art, you wouldn't be nearly put off as you have been, by the "crayon-like" quality of my highly magnified tiny pencil sketches.

 

we have the nova asuri collection for a frame design like this, theres no point, i could understand  it being a skin, but a skin, but we also couldnt force people to use melee, DE would never do that, 

Edited April 20, 2018 by (PS4)stoopidcaveman

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)stoopidcaveman said:

we have the nova asuri collection for a frame design like this, theres no point, i could understand  it being a skin, but a skin

While I find it cool that there is precedent in the Warframe universe for the visual of multiple arms... as you said, it's a skin and Syandana... no functionality...

I don't want this frame only for the looks. I want it for the "kit", as people say in this community. The visuals link the frame to the historical reference and provide an interconnected reasoning for the frame's ability to wield multiple melee weapons. The frame COULD be made without multiple arms, but I think it's cooler with them.

However, as I said above, it's the abilities that I think make this frame unique and interesting and provide features that are not currently in the game for players who want to focus on melee combat. Even if they change "channeling" and combos and everything else about melee for EVERY frame, THIS frame would still have key features that make it desirable for melee players. I think it would be fun to play, and that's the reason to play a game, to have fun.

If you don't like melee weapons, this certainly won't be a frame you'd use. I don't see a problem with providing this option for melee players, though.

 

----

On the whole Excalibur thing... really... I don't know what to say. He grants some bonuses to swords because he's a ninja, blinds enemies because ninjas could use flash bombs or smoke screens to veil their movements, and has an exalted sword that shoots blades of energy... because: cool (the radial spears thing never made much sense to me, thematically, other than the cool factor of pinning enemies against a wall).  He's not locked into only melee weapons, but has a bonus when he chooses to use them - and it impacts his exalted weapon. Excalibur is the posterchild of the "Space Ninja" theme.

This frame is entirely focused on melee combat... there's no comparison, but to help you see the difference: This is THE Melee/dance frame, where combat becomes his metaphorical dance, and he forces the enemies onto his dance floor if they want to engage him - he can even call forth more dance partners to the floor with Tandava. The dances are based around the mythical figure's Lasya and Tandava dances (creation and destruction)... not simply dance moves (so there is room for DE to make a "dance focused" frame that is quite different from this melee frame, if they want to. This is why it's key that the frame ties into the mythological figure from which its theme is drawn - and it just happens that this figure has multiple arms ... that are always shown wielding multiple weapons... for a melee frame that will wield multiple weapons.)

It all merges together perfectly for this theme... so I'm happy with it, regardless of criticism and false comparisons.

[(XBOX)TriXhunt]

It make me laugh when you say "excalibur is the melee frame"... so what is Valkyr? The melee frame number 2?

Excalibur is the sword/space ninja frame. Not THE melee frame, but A melee frame.

And when you say "DE will never force us to uses only melee"...

1. You're not forced to uses this frame if you don't want

2. And what about sorties? Where some times we are forces to use sniper only, melee only, etc... isn't it a thing that is made by DE?

[SaintNiko]

Excalibur = swords

Valkyr = claws

Wukong = staff

Ash = daggers (kinda)

Khora = whip

Atlas = "brawling" melee (kogake etc)

Hell, Inaros has the finisher passive and sandstorm augment and Gara's 1 scales on melee mods.

We don't have a battle dancer. Mesa has a reward based on your loadout (no melee, buffs to secondaries). It's a cool concept touching an entire set of cultural images that Warframe hasn't explored a whole lot that brings something new. The concept art conveys the idea well, anyone who gets hung up on the color choice of a concept sketch...

 

The loadout change would have to be part of the passive, speaking practically. Using multiple melee weapons at once would also introduce the issue of duplicate mods. As you can see with sentinel weapons, it wouldn't be possible to have, say, Pressure Point on each weapon. Or rather, it would take multiple copies of that mod. This isn't necessarily bad, it means even vets would have something to do to squeeze more power out of the frame, but certainly worth noting, especially as there are a number of Primed melee mods.

You would also run into the issue of weapons like Venka Prime or the Vaykor Sydon. How would the combo counter react to having Venka's special in your loadout but not as the currently "drawn" melee weapon? How would all of the deflection interact with the special on the sydon? How would equipping deflection mods interact with the passive and protective bubble?

As with before I think "issues" like these are interesting and exciting instead of actually problems. I think developing the concept means working through these, though. Do you have any ideas?

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

1 hour ago, SaintNiko said:

The loadout change would have to be part of the passive, speaking practically. Using multiple melee weapons at once would also introduce the issue of duplicate mods. As you can see with sentinel weapons, it wouldn't be possible to have, say, Pressure Point on each weapon. Or rather, it would take multiple copies of that mod. This isn't necessarily bad, it means even vets would have something to do to squeeze more power out of the frame, but certainly worth noting, especially as there are a number of Primed melee mods.

You would also run into the issue of weapons like Venka Prime or the Vaykor Sydon. How would the combo counter react to having Venka's special in your loadout but not as the currently "drawn" melee weapon? How would all of the deflection interact with the special on the sydon? How would equipping deflection mods interact with the passive and protective bubble?

Good points. The requirement of multiple copies of upgraded mods was certainly a consideration in the design of the frame. My personal habits in regard to mods, is to have one of each at the base unranked state to fit into odd leftover capacity point totals, one at half full rank, and one at max rank. (some with more than that, like Rush, so I can slowly fit higher ranked mods in at each level up.) So, personally, I'd be set pretty fast, but it would take some investment for most people to make full use of this frame.

As to the passive, I didn't want to overload the passive category with the bit about limiting weapon slots to all melee, because it's not really a passive buff like other passives - it's a state of fact about the warframe's "limitation". (and I already had the optional additional passive there that I thought was fitting, but not essential.) If it needs to be a passive, I'd leave that detail to the devs. (I hope it wouldn't prevent the frame from having a buff'ing passive as well.)

In the case of the Vaykor Sydon, if you switch weapons, I'd say it would reset the block counter. In the case of the Venka Prime, I'm not sure how it's programmed currently, if it's just an addition to the combo meter at every given moment, or only gives it a jump-start. It could be a more difficult issue to deal with IF they don't want its bonus carrying over to other equipped melee weapons. It could simply be a good bonus weapon to use for this frame. Due to the nature of the 4th ability, the Venka Prime's range would have to be taken into consideration to how useful that really would be in the context of his kit. It may fit perfectly, or it could be a limitation.

As for deflection, I think only the weapon's manual (or passive) deflections would count toward its personal counter, and the Lasya Bladewall's activation would be entirely separate (using energy clones of the weapons simply for the visual effect, not invoking the use of those weapons in the blocking/deflecting action of the ability.)

 

---
Edit: The way mods would interact with the protective bubble and passive:

Overall, the answer is: they interact with the bubble directly, and the passive only indirectly because you're inside the bubble when the passive activates with these added modifications.

• Allowing "Focused Defense" to increase armor while channeling to impact your armor while Lasya bladewall is active, makes you even more defensive while in this protective stance. This makes the mod useful, even if you're fighting melee enemies, like infested, where you might otherwise not even consider the bladewall. (it still works without the bladewall if you're channeling)
• "Reflection" increases the damage that gets deflected, like stated on the mod. By default, the Lasya bladewall simply stops bullets (and absorbs the kinetic energy). With the mod that reflects damage back to the attackers, this now becomes a feature of the bladewall's blocking. It's possible the Lasya Bladewall, by default, would have to be given a "chance to reflect" damage, so it's not 100% deflecting damage to all attackers -- only because the enemy AI is stupid, and they'll mindlessly blast the bladewall, killing themselves too easily in some cases. Maybe, if it creates ammo from a bullet it doesn't reflect, and if it deflects, it can't create the ammo that would have dropped. (creates a tradeoff for using it that makes it more beneficial while solo, and less useful to a group as a support feature)
• "Parry"... would add the bonus only during Lasya Bladewall, activating a finisher in response to a melee attack, either through manual blocking, or with the passive auto-melee block. (that's why it's modifying the bladewall ability, so it's active while the bladewall is active and comes with the cost of the bladewall, instead of requiring channeling - although, it works like normal as well, so if you DO happen to channel, you still benefit from that mod, without the bladewall up)

---

 

I'm glad someone's putting some thought into the implications of the abilities presented.

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by (PS4)AyinDygra
Added a breakdown of how mods interact with Lasya Bladewall

[(PSN)SmartCaveman626]

oh look, something similar is becoming a nidus deluxe skin...what did i tell you https://pre00.deviantart.net/222f/th/pre/f/2018/131/f/9/nidus_deluxe_graphical_presentation_1800px_by_liger_inuzuka-dcb8xkv.png

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by (PS4)stoopidcaveman

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Again...

While I find it cool that there is precedent in the Warframe universe for the visual of multiple arms... as you said, it's a skin

I don't want this frame only for the looks. I want it for the "kit" ...

Waiting to see the changes to melee before any changes to my original post.
I'm also working on a 3D model.