Blueprints Need To Drop At Least 75%.

[J-Pax]

Six MORE runs:

 

Chassis

Chassis

Nothing

Chassis

Chassis

Nothing

 

I'm just hoping that a DE (Steve? Scott?) might read this and see just how ridiculous this system can get. I am now holding 15 Chassis and 8 Helmet BPs in my inventory and through all of those kills, zero systems have dropped. This is not counting the several I've sold before U9.

 

I think they're at gamescom.

[-Kittens-]

Wait, what is false?  Can you please clarify that statement?  Anyway, studies have shown that most people do not finish most of the games they buy (for varying reasons).  Combine that with the immense negative portrayal of ME3's ending, where people were literally telling others to stop playing the game at a certain point so that the story wasn't ruined, and I'm not surprised the majority of people never finished the game.  Honestly, I wouldn't even have bought the game (I looked up reviews before-hand), but someone gave it to me as a gift.  In contrast, I beat ME1 20+ times, and have the entire game pretty much memorized (it is one of my favorite games of all time, if not the number one). 

 

 

 

There's one problem with your reasoning: people already had to spend money to buy Mass Effect 3.  It was a full priced release, and that supposedly came with the multiplayer.  So turning around and deliberately engineering said multiplayer element to heavily promote micro-transactions is double-dipping, pure and simple (there was also the matter of the day-1 DLC with arguably the most important character in the game, which makes it triple-dipping).  The apparent success of ME3's micro-transactions directly lead to the implementation of those same types of practices in Dead Space 3 (which probably hurt that game's sales figures).  EA actually planned to put micro-transactions in all of their future games, but backtracked on that after public outcry (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-27-ea-putting-micro-transactions-into-all-of-our-games). 

 

I have no problem with Warframe's business model because it is a F2P game, and because they do not force players to buy content or power.  Companies need to make money, but that does not justify screwing over the consumer.  Many companies (EA included) say that they need extra money to cover their development costs, but in reality it is their marketing costs and executive bonuses which have sky-rocketed, not the actual cost of development (that has risen too, don't get me wrong.  But AAA games usually spend 2-3 times their entire development budget on their marketing budget).  Grand Theft Auto IV had a budget of $100 million.  The Witcher 2, in contrast, had a budget of $8 million.  Ultra-massive budgets aren't necessary, and they are actually hurting the game industry.  If companies which can't control their budgets need to fail, then so be it. 

 

You said 99% of the hardcore lore-base of me stopped playing, you were categorically incorrect and BW actually published the metrics to prove it. You're also incorrect about ME3MP, the budget outlay did not afford anything after the first content update and partially for the second, that more were published is directly due to the fanbase putting money back into me3, whether you approve or not is objectively immaterial.

 

You were also incorrect about ME3's model being "more" predatory. Two of the strongest biotic characters were even given from the beginning. WF carries far more incentivation for direct purchasing than ME ever did, holiday and seasonal purchases being a rather glaring point. in MEMP these were free, they aren't in WF, and neither are color choices.

 

Javik and his story were not integral to me3's completion, period. Whether that is a positive or negative is outside of the scope of this particular subject.

 

More to the point, I said BW, not EA, a distinction you either missed or purposefully ignored.

 

You also don't have to explain modern financial considerations and issues to and for publishing to me, game design is what I do.

 

Lastly, It's not my reasoning, it's the factual situation of each game. GTA IV also cost more than you listed, and Witcher cost less. if you think EA is going out of business anytime soon, I have bad news for you.

 

 

 

 

 

melodramatic post about drop frustration

 

You continuing to whack the "gimme a thing" bar like a mouse addicted to drugs is entirely your purview. Since you're posting about it on a public forum, you might receive public feedback, and perhaps not all of it will agree with your rather biased summation.

Edited August 26, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Dead_Rabbits]

If warframe bp's dropped at 75% then people would not spend platinum on warframes.
 

DE would lose money and the game would suffer.

That simple.

[bluehawk1976]

Well,from what I read here and from my own experience my conclusion is that the system doesn't work the same for everyone.

We 1 player who has everything but Banshee helmet, others who got it's on first run,and yet other (myself) who worked at it for several weeks but still got it easy (Banshee was my first built warframe).

Rhyno - I got all the parts several times over that I could have built around 5 or 6 of them, but Ioat count how many times I went against Vay Hek before I got Trinity systems.

Someone can't get Ash systems for 3 months, but once I decided to go for it took me no more then 2 weeks,but it took 3 months to get Loki helmet and still need one for Mag.

So my guess is that it all works differently for players, in in effect one player "Holy Grail" is another's "grain of sand".

Yes it's annoying, but my way to deal with this is just to do something else - want Trinity systems, didn't get it on first 5 tries - go try for Ash's, alternate - do one of each and switch. This way got me building Frost Prime, Ash, Volt and Loki at the same time, because when I got it I got them all almost simultaneously.

[Ganpot]

You said 99% of the hardcore lore-base of me stopped playing, you were categorically incorrect and BW actually published the metrics to prove it. You're also incorrect about ME3MP, the budget outlay did not afford anything after the first content update and partially for the second, that more were published is directly due to the fanbase putting money back into me3, whether you approve or not is objectively immaterial.

 

I said that Bioware lost 99% of their die-hard lore fanbase after the ending.  While that claim very well might be wrong, it is almost impossible to factually contradict it, because it is impossible to tell how many fans were in the "die-hard lore fanbase" to begin with.  The hardcore are always in the minority, and doubly so are those who pay close attention to lore.  We also don't know how well the next installment of Mass Effect will sell (my bet is, not well.  But that's just a guess).  I never said that Bioware lost 99% of their entire audience, because that claim would have been factually incorrect. 

 

The free updates for the multiplayer do make the situation more consumer-friendly.  However, that does not excuse the micro-transactions in the base game.  If Bioware / EA had decided to put micro-transactions into only the DLC content in exchange for making it free, I would have had no problem with it.  Granted, I have no idea if they would have made any money by doing that. 

 

 

You were also incorrect about ME3's model being "more" predatory. Two of the strongest biotic characters were even given from the beginning. WF carries far more incentivation for direct purchasing than ME ever did, holiday and seasonal purchases being a rather glaring point. in MEMP these were free, they aren't in WF, and neither are color choices.

 

Color choices don't effect gameplay; if a game is going to wall off anything, it should be cosmetics.  You are correct that the Biotic classes didn't require any of the strong guns.  However, they are the exception to the rule.  Many classes (such as Soldier and Infiltrator) did require top tier weapons to be useful in gold level missions.  There are two reasons I believe Mass Effect's model to be more predatory than Warframe's (beside the extra cost of the base game).  Every piece of progression in Mass Effect was random, with rewards heavily skewed towards useless stuff.  If you want to build a weapon in Warframe, you usually need to farm specific resources and manually construct it.  In Mass Effect, you just buy packs and hope to get something which doesn't suck.  If you only want to play a sniper, for instance, then roughly 90% of the weapon unlocks in the game will not help you (because they aren't useful snipers).  Secondly, Mass Effect was designed to require top level weapons in order to compete at higher difficulties.  Warframe does not ever require weapons which cannot be easily farmed. 

 

 

Javik and his story were not integral to me3's completion, period. Whether that is a positive or negative is outside of the scope of this particular subject.

 

More to the point, I said BW, not EA, a distinction you either missed or purposefully ignored.

 

Actually, Javik was integral to ME3's storyline, at least in one of the earlier drafts of the script.  He was supposedly sidelined due to time constraints.  However, my complaint against him is not that he was cut, but that he is a form of on-disc DLC (despite Bioware / EA telling people otherwise).  He was developed alongside the game, and more or less finished by the time the game went gold.  Here's a nice explanation of the issue, if you haven't seen it already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0vrJ-y2zM. 

 

EA owns Bioware.  They are the same entity, and have been for a long time.  This is similar to the distinction between CD Projekt (technically CD Projekt Sp. z o.o.) and CD Projekt Red.  Red is a subsidiary of the larger company.  Therefore, they are the same entity.  If you disagree with that stance, then logically, you would also not be able to talk about Bioware as a whole, because each branch of each team would need to be individually represented (the art team, executives, designers, programmers, etc.). 

 

 

Lastly, It's not my reasoning, it's the factual situation of each game. GTA IV also cost more than you listed, and Witcher cost less. if you think EA is going out of business anytime soon, I have bad news for you.

 

The budget statistics for games are rather hard to find (specific numbers are usually only given out to investors).  Therefore, my budgets were rough estimates, based on what information I could find.  The budget for GTA IV was approximately $100-135 million, while the PC version of the Witcher 2 had an approximate budget of $7-10 million.  However, the Witcher 2 team also created free DLC content, plenty of patches, and an Xbox 360 port, and the price for all of those things together was somewhere around an additional $7 million. 

 

I don't want EA to go out of business.  I want it to reform and become a healthy publisher of risky and innovative games, with a pro-consumer stance.  But I would be lying if I said that I actually expected that to happen.  And truthfully, if EA did fall apart, I would consider it exactly what that company deserved.  EA's collapse, if it happens at all, will probably be slow but steady.  It's already in decline (along with a lot of other AAA game publishing companies), but its come back from that before. 

[Xylia]

You continuing to whack the "gimme a thing" bar like a mouse addicted to drugs is entirely your purview. Since you're posting about it on a public forum, you might receive public feedback, and perhaps not all of it will agree with your rather biased summation.

 

I think at this point, I'm more curious at just how f---ing ridiculous this can POSSIBLY get, and it is more to make a point about why this system is absolutely broken and needs fixing.

 

I think they're at gamescom.

 

And your point is, what again?

 

You think this won't be visible once they return or something? I'm sure by then I'll have another 20 or so runs with no Systems to further my point on why we need a system where you are guaranteed to get it eventually.

[-Kittens-]

I said that Bioware lost 99% of their die-hard lore fanbase after the ending.  While that claim very well might be wrong, it is almost impossible to factually contradict it, because it is impossible to tell how many fans were in the "die-hard lore fanbase" to begin with.  The hardcore are always in the minority, and doubly so are those who pay close attention to lore.  We also don't know how well the next installment of Mass Effect will sell (my bet is, not well.  But that's just a guess).  I never said that Bioware lost 99% of their entire audience, because that claim would have been factually incorrect. 

 

The free updates for the multiplayer do make the situation more consumer-friendly.  However, that does not excuse the micro-transactions in the base game.  If Bioware / EA had decided to put micro-transactions into only the DLC content in exchange for making it free, I would have had no problem with it.  Granted, I have no idea if they would have made any money by doing that. 

 

 

 

Color choices don't effect gameplay; if a game is going to wall off anything, it should be cosmetics.  You are correct that the Biotic classes didn't require any of the strong guns.  However, they are the exception to the rule.  Many classes (such as Soldier and Infiltrator) did require top tier weapons to be useful in gold level missions.  There are two reasons I believe Mass Effect's model to be more predatory than Warframe's (beside the extra cost of the base game).  Every piece of progression in Mass Effect was random, with rewards heavily skewed towards useless stuff.  If you want to build a weapon in Warframe, you usually need to farm specific resources and manually construct it.  In Mass Effect, you just buy packs and hope to get something which doesn't suck.  If you only want to play a sniper, for instance, then roughly 90% of the weapon unlocks in the game will not help you (because they aren't useful snipers).  Secondly, Mass Effect was designed to require top level weapons in order to compete at higher difficulties.  Warframe does not ever require weapons which cannot be easily farmed. 

 

 

 

Actually, Javik was integral to ME3's storyline, at least in one of the earlier drafts of the script.  He was supposedly sidelined due to time constraints.  However, my complaint against him is not that he was cut, but that he is a form of on-disc DLC (despite Bioware / EA telling people otherwise).  He was developed alongside the game, and more or less finished by the time the game went gold.  Here's a nice explanation of the issue, if you haven't seen it already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0vrJ-y2zM. 

 

EA owns Bioware.  They are the same entity, and have been for a long time.  This is similar to the distinction between CD Projekt (technically CD Projekt Sp. z o.o.) and CD Projekt Red.  Red is a subsidiary of the larger company.  Therefore, they are the same entity.  If you disagree with that stance, then logically, you would also not be able to talk about Bioware as a whole, because each branch of each team would need to be individually represented (the art team, executives, designers, programmers, etc.). 

 

 

 

The budget statistics for games are rather hard to find (specific numbers are usually only given out to investors).  Therefore, my budgets were rough estimates, based on what information I could find.  The budget for GTA IV was approximately $100-135 million, while the PC version of the Witcher 2 had an approximate budget of $7-10 million.  However, the Witcher 2 team also created free DLC content, plenty of patches, and an Xbox 360 port, and the price for all of those things together was somewhere around an additional $7 million. 

 

I don't want EA to go out of business.  I want it to reform and become a healthy publisher of risky and innovative games, with a pro-consumer stance.  But I would be lying if I said that I actually expected that to happen.  And truthfully, if EA did fall apart, I would consider it exactly what that company deserved.  EA's collapse, if it happens at all, will probably be slow but steady.  It's already in decline (along with a lot of other AAA game publishing companies), but its come back from that before. 

 

Actually they published metrics on all three games; it is entirely possible to prove you incorrect, otherwise I would have even bothered touching on the subject to begin with.

 

WF is more predatory than ME3, with the exception of weapon upgrades, that's not even an issue that can be argued. The reasons why can be, but the fact the DE has no safety net is really all that need be said.

 

It's rather ironic and funny that you mention snipers because Snipes are almost impossible to get in WF, and the Vulkar is garbage, and meanwhile in ME3 there are 13 sniper rifles to choose from, one of which has the highest spike damage in the game bar none, and another has the second highest burst damage in the game and causes auto stagger even on bosses, and you don't have to do any tricks other than open reward given packs to get them. Meanwhile, Snipes of any actual worth in WF are literally locked behind either an exclusivity or super punishing clan-material wall.

 

Also weapons in ME3 are very clearly tier graded by colors: blue, silver, gold and black. No such animal exists in WF, which results in people buying atrocious weapons and beign stuck with instant buyer's remorse unless they had the wherewithal to research the weapon in the first place, and pretty much all the research work in this area is having to be done by the community.

 

You were saying something about predatory behavior?

 

Javik

 

I'm perfectly aware of what happened to Javik going from helpful scientist to grumpy soldier with some of the best dialog in the game, I'm just as aware none of that ever mattered because they left it behind. I'm also personally aware of how punishing ME3's dev schedule was.

 

You also conveniently missed that several warframes of rather severe utility were omitted from the initial offering, Warframes that made powering through the levels of the time rather easy. Intentional or not, I could easily say the same of DE, the reason I'm not is rather obvious. Maybe you should take the same tack.

 

BioWare and EA are NOT the same, and you proselytizing thus isn't helping your case at all. The fact you keep arguing to the side of things instead of simply seeing that your position doesn't really hold to up to any kind of detailed scrutiny other than "I personally prefer WF to ME3" isn't doing you any favors either.

 

rates

 

DE has already stated these things will change at public "launch" when main content is finalized, and secondly there are very well documented methods to getting to bosses and killing them in literal seconds to maximize drop patterns for both solo and public venues; if you refuse to utilize them, the onus once again is on you, not DE.

 

Whether you consider that fair or not is another story.

[G3m1n1]

While I agree with the OP's complaint in general; that is, obtaining blueprints shouldn't really be as tedious as it seems to be right now, the following quote sums up how I feel about this.

 

Yes it's annoying, but my way to deal with this is just to do something else

 

I'm not sure if it actually helps but I have also noticed that when I jump around the bosses to try and get specific items it doesn't take as long to get what I want. Rather than running the same boss two dozen times, I have had better luck running a boss two maybe three times then switching.

 

Perhaps there is an undocumented rate of diminishing returns when repeating the same boss run over and over.

[Xylia]

DE has already stated these things will change at public "launch" when main content is finalized, and secondly there are very well documented methods to getting to bosses and killing them in literal seconds to maximize drop patterns for both solo and public venues; if you refuse to utilize them, the onus once again is on you, not DE.

 

Doesn't matter how fast you get to, and kill, the boss (don't forget you need awesome gear to kill higher level bosses in "seconds"), it doesn't change the fact that you can kill the same stupid boss 50+ times and never see 1 out of the 3 blueprints that you need to actually make the warframe.

 

The drop rates are just broken and need fixed. Nobody should have to go 50+ kills with no systems. The fact that this is POSSIBLE says that the drop rate is broken and needs tweaked. They need some kind of "bad roll protection" or something, to force a more fair median. Yes, MOST people should get it in 20... but what about the players that go 50+? There ARE ways of getting around that.

 

RNG is RNG, yes, but there are ways to skew RNG in your favor. DE isn't doing themselves any good by leaving the boss drops the way they are -- there is a point where a player will simply give up and then have a sour taste in their mouth after 50+ kills and still not having what they rightfully worked for while all of their friends got it in 10-20 kills.

 

One such example, is a "increasing chance" system. Every time you obtain "X part", there's a small chance "X part" will drop the next time you kill it. The game could simply scan your inventory when you enter the mission. For each Chassis/Helm/Systems you have on you, there's a -5% chance that will drop when you kill the guy.

 

For example, I have 15 Chassis and 8 Helmets.

 

If we used my suggestion, the next time I kill Tyl Regor, there's a -75% chance the Chassis will drop, and a -40% chance the Helmet will drop. This means that by now, if a BP drops, I am almost *guaranteed* a systems drop with that many chassis and helmet blueprints on me already. Of course, this requires that a player doesn't sell their excess drops, but at least it'd give the player SOME way of influencing the drop.

 

With this suggestion, a player would still need to kill the boss several times, but at least it'd be impossible (you'd eventually get -100% at 20/20) to go more than 41 drops and not have it unless you sold some of the blueprints (obviously, this would eventually become documented and common knowledge).

Edited August 26, 2013 by Xylia

[Xylia]

5 More:

 

Nothing

Chassis

Nothing

Nothing

Nothing

 

Now, with +200% more fail!

 

I'm really curious as to how long it will take to get a systems drop. I think by now, I don't even care about the stupid warframe, I'm merely wondering just how more lame this can possibly get, lol. Kinda like reaching for a highscore of how many times I've killed this guy without getting an Ash Systems...

[Ganpot]

Actually they published metrics on all three games; it is entirely possible to prove you incorrect, otherwise I would have even bothered touching on the subject to begin with.

 

As I said before: no, it is not possible to prove my claim incorrect, because you can not possibly define the demographic of "die-hard lore fanbase".  The Bioware metrics do not address that whatsoever, they only address the general userbase.  I admit that this tactic was unfair of me, as I was making a statement which could not possibly be invalidated or validated.  It was based almost solely on my observations of others' reactions, including detailed blogs, forum posts, videos, and other such things.  This series of articles is a decent example, although it only covers ME2 (the author does not seem to want to cover ME3 at all): http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=7004. 

 

 

WF is more predatory than ME3, with the exception of weapon upgrades, that's not even an issue that can be argued. The reasons why can be, but the fact the DE has no safety net is really all that need be said.

 

It's rather ironic and funny that you mention snipers because Snipes are almost impossible to get in WF, and the Vulkar is garbage, and meanwhile in ME3 there are 13 sniper rifles to choose from, one of which has the highest spike damage in the game bar none, and another has the second highest burst damage in the game and causes auto stagger even on bosses, and you don't have to do any tricks other than open reward given packs to get them. Meanwhile, Snipes of any actual worth in WF are literally locked behind either an exclusivity or super punishing clan-material wall.

 

Also weapons in ME3 are very clearly tier graded by colors: blue, silver, gold and black. No such animal exists in WF, which results in people buying atrocious weapons and beign stuck with instant buyer's remorse unless they had the wherewithal to research the weapon in the first place, and pretty much all the research work in this area is having to be done by the community.

 

You were saying something about predatory behavior?

 

The predatory level of Warframe when compared to ME3 can very easily be argued.  Allow me to demonstrate: if you spend real money in warframe, you get to choose which items you want to spend that money on.  If you spend money on ME3's multiplayer, the game decides your reward randomly.  Even if you end up buying a terrible weapon in Warframe, you ultimately made that decision for yourself.  It is no different from buying a bad video-game or a bad car: the burden is on the buyer of a product to investigate the quality of an item before buying it (so long as no false advertising is involved).   ME3's method, on the other hand, is the definition of gambling.  In fact, it is worse than real-life gambling, because in legitimate casinos there are (at least in theory) safeguards against cheating.  If ME3 was cheating consumers through a jury-rigged system, no one would ever know. 

 

Having exclusive content in a F2P game no way effects the legitimacy of the business model.  To suggest otherwise is absurd, because almost all modern games, including Mass Effect 3, possess exclusive content of one sort or another.  Pre-order bonuses?  Exclusive content.  Additional DLC for one edition of a game?  Exclusive content.  Promotional cross-game bonuses?  Exclusive content.

 

 

I'm perfectly aware of what happened to Javik going from helpful scientist to grumpy soldier with some of the best dialog in the game, I'm just as aware none of that ever mattered because they left it behind. I'm also personally aware of how punishing ME3's dev schedule was.

 

You also conveniently missed that several warframes of rather severe utility were omitted from the initial offering, Warframes that made powering through the levels of the time rather easy. Intentional or not, I could easily say the same of DE, the reason I'm not is rather obvious. Maybe you should take the same tack.

 

You seem to have missed my entire argument here.  Let me make this very clear: I have no problem whatsoever with Bioware redesigning Javik and making him a minor part of the story.  What I do have a problem with, is releasing Javik as paid DLC when his content was complete and developed as part of the main game.  When you buy a game, you are buying a license to use all of the content which was completed during that game's development and held on the disc.  That is why modding, cracking, and altering game files is completely legal (at least in the United States). 

 

There is a very clear distinction between Bioware's approach, and that of DE.  DE cut out the extra frames because they imbalanced the game.  They cut content to make the game better, which is perfectly acceptable with any software (especially free software).  Bioware cut out Javik solely to make more money.  There is no other possible justification.  That is the difference. 

 

 

BioWare and EA are NOT the same, and you proselytizing thus isn't helping your case at all.

 

Legally speaking, Bioware and EA are the same entity.  This also applies to all employees of a company, which is why ethics clauses can exist.  When an individual works for a company, he or she represents that company, and is understood to be a part of that company.  If an employee conducts unsuitable behavior in his or her free time which does not directly impact the company in any way, he or she can still legally be fired for it.  Additionally, if a shell corporation broke international law, its parent company would be liable. 

 

But let's ignore that for now.  What makes Bioware, Bioware?  Is it the people who work there?  Or is it the company name itself?  If you argue that the people working there are what allows for the Bioware classification, then I have bad news for you: a lot of the people who used to work at Bioware no longer do.  Companies shed employees all the time.  Which employees, exactly, determine a company?  Is it the executives, the directors, or the baseline workers?  The two people who founded the company left in late 2012.  Many of the leads, including Drew Karpyshyn, have also left.  Other employees have been shuffled around.  So it is pretty safe to say that, if the people are responsible for Bioware's classification, then it can no longer be classified as Bioware at all. 

 

But what if you argued that the name itself is all that is the determining factor?  Well, the irony of that belief is that the EA division which houses the multitude of Bioware studios is itself called EA Bioware.  So, by combining both EA and Bioware into a single name, it offers complete proof that the two entities are, in fact, the same. 

 

 

The fact you keep arguing to the side of things instead of simply seeing that your position doesn't really hold to up to any kind of detailed scrutiny other than "I personally prefer WF to ME3" isn't doing you any favors either.

 

I have never said that I prefer Warframe over ME3.  If anything, ME3 has more polished mechanics.  My posts have had nothing to do with the quality of the two games (aside from my mentions of the single-player ending).  They have been addressing the business models.  You are free to disagree with my assessment, but it would be hard to argue that the majority of consumers agree with you.  The business models of ME3 and Dead Space caused a noticeable uproar, whereas Warframe's model has not. 

[-Kittens-]

As I said before: no, it is not possible to prove my claim incorrect, because you can not possibly define the demographic of "die-hard lore fanbase".

 

Wrong. Player metrics were uploaded (guess you didn't read the eula) and pretty exhaustively delineated. But if you want to get passively-aggressively semantic about it, I can go look up the definitions and make a rather concrete aggregate right now.

 

There is no other possible justification.

 

Also wrong and directly addressed by both Casey Hudson and Jesse Houston.

 

because they imbalanced the game

 

Sigh, also wrong.

 

 

Javik

 

The copy I purchased included Javik for free, you know, the die hard lore copy.

 

BioWare

 

Since I'm personal friends with three people that work there and know three others on a first name basis, I'm just gonna go ahead and assume you have no idea what you're actually addressing in an attempt to create a semantic abstract about a concrete and real world point of objectivity.

[weirdee]

it's not like i don't purchase potatoes and slots later anyway...

Edited August 27, 2013 by weirdee

[Ganpot]

Wrong. Player metrics were uploaded (guess you didn't read the eula) and pretty exhaustively delineated. But if you want to get passively-aggressively semantic about it, I can go look up the definitions and make a rather concrete aggregate right now.

 

The player metrics measured things such as player completion rates, most played classes, and moral choices.  I have yet to see any metrics whatsoever which cross-examine those statistics with the average time spent looking at codex entries, for example.  Even that is a deeply flawed approach, at best.  Neither of us can prove our belief here, so there is no point in continuing this particular argument.  If you still believe that you can disprove my belief with evidence, I encourage you to post a link to it. 

 

 

Also wrong and directly addressed by both Casey Hudson and Jesse Houston.

 

*Looks Shocked* Wait, you mean that people who are required to say things in order to keep their jobs can actually be trusted absolutely?  My god, I've been so wrong about the Xbox One!  Microsoft employees weren't trying to disguise blatantly anti-consumer practices by saying "this is the future".  They are just time-travelers!  That must also mean that Casey Hudson's quote from an interview ("It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C." http://www.oxm.co.uk/37677/mass-effect-3-citadel-is-bigger-than-ever-endings-will-be-more-sophisticated/) must also be true!  The entire ending fiasco has been a ruse!  There's actually dozens more endings, but they require insanely specific events in order to activate!  

 

 

The copy I purchased included Javik for free, you know, the die hard lore copy.

 

How nice of you to assume that all fans who actually cared about the lore spent an extra $20 (or equivalent currency) in order to get the "real" edition of the game.  Because of course spending money is what really makes someone a lore buff; not actually studying the game and picking it apart. 

 

 

Since I'm personal friends with three people that work there and know three others on a first name basis, I'm just gonna go ahead and assume you have no idea what you're actually addressing in an attempt to create a semantic abstract about a concrete and real world point of objectivity.

 

You seem to be under the impression that by labeling Bioware and EA as the same entity, I am directly insulting your friends.  Tell me, was every German soldier in WW2 an anti-Semitic Nazi?  Is every single person who works for the HSBC bank a terrorist sympathizer?  (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/report-hsbc-allowed-money-laundering-likely-funded-terror-drugs-889170)  Being part of a larger organization which occasionally engages in a certain behavior does not mean that every individual is a part of that (or even that most individuals are aware of it). 

 

From a purely factual standpoint, Bioware is EA and vice-versa.  The international legal system universally recognizes that.  

[Xylia]

Not sure why the heck we're talking about ME3 and Bioware in Warframe General Feedback....

[Ganpot]

Not sure why the heck we're talking about ME3 and Bioware in Warframe General Feedback....

 

It started out as an errant comment and just grew from there.  But, hey, at least this ME3 discussion isn't centered around the ending!  That's gotta be something, right?

[Accany]

Even though some of you claim that this is a mechanic to make people sink money into the game, let me remind you that this is a GAME.

 

The reason you play a game is to have fun. I don't think running instances 50+ times to get an item is fun. Neither is knowing that you might never get the system you need if you ran again. This turns people away from the game. The last I checked, making players frustrated on a game isn't exactly a great idea.

 

Now I'm not saying that they need to buff the drop rates, but it would be great if there was a system that allows us to know that we are actually inching towards our goal instead of playing the lottery. Either way this should be fixed. People can say "Well you can buy the frame with real cash!". If people were going to be turned off just from the hardcore farming they will have to do, what makes you think they would even bother continuing to play the game?

[Ganpot]

Even though some of you claim that this is a mechanic to make people sink money into the game, let me remind you that this is a GAME.

 

The reason you play a game is to have fun. I don't think running instances 50+ times to get an item is fun. Neither is knowing that you might never get the system you need if you ran again. This turns people away from the game. The last I checked, making players frustrated on a game isn't exactly a great idea.

 

You make a valid point.  I do think that there needs to be some way to negate RNG, but it needs to be much less efficient than normal.  For example, perhaps players could exchange 15 parts of a weapon or warframe for a single different part of their choosing.  That would still allow for RNG, but it would also allow unlucky players to grind their way forward. 

 

Keep in mind, a F2P game is always a balancing act.  If you make things too easy for players, they will never buy things with real money (and the developer will go bankrupt).  But if you make things too tedious or difficult, players will just stop playing (as you stated). 

[Xylia]

The easiest way (and perhaps the fairest way) to fix this, is simply add increasing returns to the RNG -- every time that you DON'T get it, you have slightly more chance of getting it the next time you do it, so that it is impossible to go more than "x" times without getting it. Above, I proposed a system where the game looks at your inventory and sees how many blueprints you already have, and for each of those blueprints, there's 5% less chance to drop that blueprint. Doing this would guarantee your full set by run #41 which I think is more than fair. You'd get your full set somewhere between 3 and 41 runs which still involves a good bit of RNG (41 kills is still not very fun), but yet it is unlikely that every player would have to go the full 41 before getting theirs.

 

It would, however, be a light at the end of the tunnel for those with the worst luck ever. And it (in theory) would be rather simple to code as it uses simple logic.

 

Oh, and btw: If anybody's keeping track, ran him twice more last night...

 

Nothing

Helmet

 

At this point I'm pretty sure I'm never getting the Systems until they change the drops somehow. A friend in my clan has the exact same problem, only with Ember and has put in just about as many kills as I have.

 

EDIT: Actually, it'd take more than 41 runs: Blueprints don't always drop. I meant 41 "drops".

Edited August 27, 2013 by Xylia

[MageMeat]

+1

I would love if they would balance and increase the rates, because you're killing a boss. You should be rewarded consistently for launching a high velocity slug through his face.

The Ember Systems are killing me.

[havikryan]

the only frame where i got blueprint problems with is frost prime, did like 30 T3 exterminate mission and another 40 T1/2 exterminate mission, i got pretty much all frost prime parts 20 times only still don't have the frost prime blueprint

[Xylia]

the only frame where i got blueprint problems with is frost prime, did like 30 T3 exterminate mission and another 40 T1/2 exterminate mission, i got pretty much all frost prime parts 20 times only still don't have the frost prime blueprint

 

I have Frost Prime Blueprint, I have Frost Prime Chassis Blueprint, I have Frost Prime Systems Blueprint...

 

Did 3 Tier 3 Voids in a row one night with friends, and I got?

 

Latron Prime Blueprint

Latron Prime Blueprint

Reaper Prime Blueprint

 

You know, that stupid s*** that drops in T1?

 

Yeah. Why are T1 drops dropping in T3? If I wanted that crap, I'd go run T1.

[havikryan]

I have Frost Prime Blueprint, I have Frost Prime Chassis Blueprint, I have Frost Prime Systems Blueprint...

 

Did 3 Tier 3 Voids in a row one night with friends, and I got?

 

Latron Prime Blueprint

Latron Prime Blueprint

Reaper Prime Blueprint

 

You know, that stupid s*** that drops in T1?

 

Yeah. Why are T1 drops dropping in T3? If I wanted that crap, I'd go run T1.

 

i keep getting frost prime chassis blueprint, exterminate T1/2/3, i ALLOT of times get frost prime chassis, no idea why that has such a high drop rate apparently

Edited August 27, 2013 by havikryan