Vampirism, A Mod Suggestion.

[Estred]

The idea is a melee mod to synergize with Rage.

 

I had thought about percent based  healing like say 8% at rank 5 or something (1.6% per level). However, just looking at say a charged Scindo hit once modded and you could easily heal 800-1000 HP or more in a single swing vs infested.

 

My solution to that dilemma is to make it heal a set amount of HP per hit or charge attack.

 

4 Rank Mod

Base: 1 HP Per strike.

Ranking adds 1 more HP per strike.

Max Rank: 5 HP per Strike

 

Seems like nothing right? Well consider a Fang or Dual Zoren with max Fury.

 

Dual Zoren: 3.2 Attacks per second.

Fang: 2.4 Attacks per second.

 

So at  5 HP a strike, every second these weapons will heal

Dual Zoren: 16 HP

Fang: 12 HP

 

Now what about cleaves? Well 50% to AE Targets. So an Orthos would get full HP from one target and 50% from all other targets.

 

Orthos at 1.6 attack per second against 3 units would gain.

(5 + 2.5 + 2.5)*1.6 = 16 HP a second on par with Dual Zoren.

 

How about Charge Attacks? Well 2.5% against all targets. Think of how much higher the damage output is.

 

Scindo with even just a max Killing Blow will deal 500 damage.

Hitting only one enemies that Scindo is stealing 12.5 HP per charge attack. If you hit two enemies that is 25 HP per strike. Four enemies is 50 HP at this point I would say the heal needs to cap out at 50 hp max which is two health orbs worth of HP.

 

So thoughts? Numbers still too high maybe?

Edited August 17, 2013 by Estred

[Bakercompany86]

Any method of restoring HP outside of red orbs and Trinity would be greatly appreciated.  +1

[Tatersail]

the problem with melee is not loosing health.. its low damage compared to ranged weapons.

 

 

Melee weapons in my opinion should deal more damage than ranged weapons, this is only really true, Excluding kunai at low mastery levels, with poor mods.

[SynisterDoom]

+1. good numbers. balanced. and it adds to something sorely needed. health support. 

[AntLion]

I like this idea. It will force people to use their melee weapons more often. Also it will solve the problem with health restoring because health orbs don't help enough on high-level missions.

Edited August 17, 2013 by AntLion

[strifezero]

+1 Healing on defense missions becomes a problem however you would also need to think about weapons such as the Glaive and Kestrel as they are still ranged so it would be a 100% safe heal? 

[Morte_de_Angelis]

+1 Healing on defense missions becomes a problem however you would also need to think about weapons such as the Glaive and Kestrel as they are still ranged so it would be a 100% safe heal? 

 

But if you miss a target you have to wait for the Glaive / Kestrel to come back before you can hit another.  Plus the chances of hitting more then one target is random so you are only really reliably going to get one hit every few secs.  Thats less then charging into a group of 6 with a Charged Scindo.

[Estred]

the problem with melee is not loosing health.. its low damage compared to ranged weapons.

 

 

Melee weapons in my opinion should deal more damage than ranged weapons, this is only really true, Excluding kunai at low mastery levels, with poor mods.

The more point of the idea is to offer a way to "stay Melee" if needed. Currently at higher levels Melee is worthless because you just get blasted. This would be a way to do so, also with Rage (HP damage = Energy) it could help keep skills up without relying on Trinity or Blue Orbs.

 

 

+1 Healing on defense missions becomes a problem however you would also need to think about weapons such as the Glaive and Kestrel as they are still ranged so it would be a 100% safe heal? 

I was thinking about what to do with the Glaive/Kestrel. They have a bonus and a draw back.

Bonus: Long Range = Safe Heal

Bonus: Glaive has high-charge damage which could approach the 50hp cap.

Drawback: You miss = 0 HP

Drawback: Normal Melee will see you getting little HP back.

Drawback: Really hard to be effective with.

 

I can see them not needing special limitations as the weapon is already tricky enough to use.

[-Kelphaso-]

I like this idea but i think it would be better if it was more like % return because have like 20 infested chargers or ancients smack you on the face every 1 sec in an endless def mission at the very least like 0.5% or 1% of the damage dealt would be a little bit more balanced

[Estred]

I like this idea but i think it would be better if it was more like % return because have like 20 infested chargers or ancients smack you on the face every 1 sec in an endless def mission at the very least like 0.5% or 1% of the damage dealt would be a little bit more balanced

The issue with % Returns is it tends to leave other healing methods weak. 50HP per charge attack can be quick healing if you do it right. As is 16hp a second from Dual Zoren. You are right in that any percent based value would have to be 1 percent or less due to crits and how much healing can become overpowered. If I have some time I will do some mod calculation and compare values to see how a.5-1% value would work.

 

I am very pleased though that people like the concept of the mod. I was noting that Melee needs something extra to justify taking the risk or loss of DPS to use them. Using Vampirism and Rage together provides a way to regen-energy after you get Ancient Disruptored to the face.

[Depar]

1 little thing to mention in your calculation, zoren also can hit 3 targets

Edited August 18, 2013 by Depar

[Eirshy]

I like this idea but i think it would be better if it was more like % return because have like 20 infested chargers or ancients smack you on the face every 1 sec in an endless def mission at the very least like 0.5% or 1% of the damage dealt would be a little bit more balanced

 

You forget that if you're meleeing them with a cold mod and maxed fury on, they're all stunlocked even with a Scindo (iirc)

 

 

 

 

Anyways the melee to look at for why you say "no" to % is not a Scindo, but rather the Orthos Prime. You know, the master of all melee DPS currently.

 

And that thing's reach (especially with a Reach mod) makes it practically ranged anyways haha.

Edited August 18, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Lumireaver]

Charge builds are already preferred, Normal attacks need love.

[Eirshy]

Charge builds are already preferred, Normal attacks need love.

 

Which is why flat would be better than percentile. Flat scales to aspd, percentile scales to DPS. Thus, flat would benefit normals more than charged attacks.

[Estred]

TheBlueJelly is correct. I ran the numbers using .5 and 1% values for all weapons and it's just unfairly catering to Charge Attacks. Normal attacks have to use Flat-HP see why below when I touch on the Scindo again.

 

Taking into account as Depar said that Dual Zoren hits up to 3 targets and Fang/Fang prime also hit multiple targets if they are very close (.5 meters). That would put Dual Zoren's 16HP/Second at 32hp a second as any cleaved target is 50% Healing (2.5).

 

That means that you gain almost no benefit between Charge Attacking a Scindo against four Targets equals the same amount. To be honest I may have to lower the Charge limit even further to 2% instead of damage dealt instead of 2.5% which would make the Scindo heal for 10 per Charge Hit meaning you have to hit 5 enemies to get max heal.

 

The alternative of course would be to stay flat numbers. Meaning a charge-attack vs 5 enemies will still only heal you 25HP which now seems unfair to the Charge Attacks hence why I went with a very low % number. The effect is that you heal 10 per enemy struck for taking the time to wind-up a charge attack. If I take 1 second to charge and I could have struck twice normally in the same time-frame. The difference is zero because ten hits of normal strikes is the same as five hits of a charged attack.

 

If one would want this mod slanted towards normal attacks however. Even heavy-weapons would use Flat Numbers for all hits regardless of attack type.

 

So a recap.

50HP is the most you may heal per second. This arbitrary cap is to limit the mods effectiveness to prevent "unkillable" warframes.

Dual Zoren or other Fast Melee Weapons take great advantage of this.

Cleaving Melee Weapons like Orthos/Hate/Reaper make good use of this mod.

Charge Based weapons such as Scindo, Fragor, Amphis and Gram make less use of this but not worthless.

 

I mark Hate/Reaper as Cleaving because  I have had equal results using ATS and Charge on those weapons.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Estred

[Gryphticon]

Let's say that I support this idea.

[Estred]

Crunching more numbers. I see no problem with maxing the Vampirism mod at a static HP value per attack type.

Basic Attack (Primary Target): 5HP

Basic Attack (Cleave Target): 2.5 HP

- Basic attacks being faster than Charged will net slightly more HP than Power Attacks.

Power Attack (Primary Target): 5HP

Power Attack (Cleaved Targets): 2.5HP

- As they charge slower this mod is less effective on Heavy and thus Power Attack centric weapons. Tanky warframs such as Rhino, Frost and Sayrn will probably still get enough from Vampirism to be effective.

Ranged AttacK (Glaive/Kestral): 10HP

- Ranged has a higher base due to the chances of hitting more than 1 target being low. Effective use can see a good heal from them though.

Basically there is more incentive to using Basic Attacks as they are quicker and would regen HP faster thus an incentive to use Light Weapons over Heavy-Weapons. However the heavier frames using Charge Attacks or Heavy Weapons have the durability to still gain a good regen from Vampirism.

Also I made this granted I had to make due with what I could pull from the game.

Still not super happy how the effect flare came out but, it's a mock up and it gets a general idea across.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Estred

[Estred]

Well, feels like I spent the time making that for nothing but hey. I enjoyed doing it. I hope someone at DE has seen this and maybe at least given it some though. Not that I will know but hey, can always be hopeful.