Missions Have No Depth. Here's How To Fix It.

[Boatsniper]

Love it.

 

Make it happen DE.

I was wondering when you would comment on this. The more support we have for this, the better chance it has to be implemented, or at least considered.

[kz3dart]

......

 

You enter the ship through the same vent, Lotus chats you ear off (again), your minimap boots up, but this time, it give you an error. "Ship layout unknown". With no way to rush to the artifact, you must explore the ship for a place to download the map. You stumble across a computer terminal and you attempt to access it. It asks for identification information. This is where it gets interesting, if you have a Cipher, you can hack it once and get access to its contents, OR you can acquire the ID Info from one of the crewmen walking about the ship. If you are spotted AND detected trying to get the information, good luck finding your map. Now you now have access to the terminal. From there, you can download the complete layout of the ship. However, the terminal also provides controls for lockdown, quarantine, nearby security cameras, and power, among other things. You minimap can now display the layout of the ship, along with locations for control panels and computer terminals for each room you enter, but you still don't know where the artifact is. By pressing 'M', the minimap expands and gives you a full 3D view of the ship with icons for important rooms. From here, you can mark up personal and squad waypoints to areas that look interesting. You can go take out the main reactor, or raid the cargo hold, or take out the life support systems, or attack the bridge. If you're in a squad, you can split up to cover more ground or stay as a group, which might be safer. If you're playing solo, stealth is suddenly a viable option.....

I agree with everything but do not want to waste place for quote all ;). I love the Idea for scenario on the single mission not only some story in the background.

GREAT IDEA please DE make this happend.

Edited September 16, 2013 by kz3dart

[Riskbreaker]

i like the idea,it would slow down mission a bit,but i wouldn't mind at all,maps are big and very detailed i love them all,it's shame we don't explore them more,because there's no point in doing that.Also only one thing i would add.random unexpected events,ships colide to each other,or meteor hits ship breaking everything,maybe giant alien thing get attached to ship so we have some sort of boss to deal with or anything that would complicate mission.Don't get me wrong i like when suddenly we get more objectives,even tho it feels "cold".

[JustDont]

Don't get me wrong i like when suddenly we get more objectives,even tho it feels "cold".

Random stuff happening only works when there's enough variety and chances for it to happen are nicely calculated. Otherwise it would be no better than the current "You found the artifact! Oh wait, scratch that, go get a hostage from the other side of the map". In other words, just boring.

 

PS: On the matter of topic. I do essentially agree with OP's post spirit (if not with the fine details) that we desperately need "flow breakers" in the missions. Because apart from Defense, all missions essentially boil down to "run towards quest marker while shooting things in you way (or not)". Raids. Survivals. Deceptions. Spy missions. Captures. Rescues. Assassinations. Exterminates (shooting things is not optional here). Even Mobile Defense mostly falls into the same mold (as there are little to no danger that mobs will break the console because of bugs in their behavior). The ONLY mission type that's drastically different from the typical mold is the Endless Defense.

 

So, while in theory we have lots of different mission types, in reality we have TWO missions. Defense and not-Defense.

Edited September 16, 2013 by JustDont

[Shroudb]

multiple objectives can be done a lot better imo and it will break the current monotony of many maps. as i posted on another thread (about rushers) some of my ideas, using mainly mission types and systems that are already in place are:

 

 

 

Back to the point, I always thought that implementing artificial choke points was the easiest way to deal with rushing but haven't seen anyone suggesting it, p.e.:

Every time a lockdown happens, in the rooms surrounding the players a large number of mobs spawn, characters can't deactivate the alarm till all of those mobs are killed (mini exterminate event)

The first time the alarm is raised, all doors lock down and the system tries to purge the invaders (mini survival event)

Time consuming hacking attempts , up to 1min puzzles, that while one person does the attempt the others have to protect him from continually spawning mobs and etc.(mini defence event with a simple twist that you protect your teammate and not some artifavt)

All the above, and a lot more artificial choke points, can be created to stop rushing, and IMO give missions a little more than simple grind, making them more enjoyable.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Shroudb

[ToeSama]

I agree with everything except making the map unavailable if you are detected before you can plug the ID in.

 

That could potentially ruin someone's day if they let off a shot to actually kill the enemy or missed the stealth attack.

 

There was talk a while back of implementing a way to "turn off" the alert. If that gets put in as well, I see no reason for this to be a problem.

 

That, and the lack of map layout at stage start is not as big an issue as people would think. If we still have minimap access, and every place we explore comes up on the map as we enter it, then it's not like a recall of Nightmare mode's "no map effect" or anything.

[Aure7]

I'd like you for these ideas if it wasn't actually a one thing. I've posted similar things with nicely organised text previously and all I received was like 20 likes. And everyone else just attracts readers like a magnet and receive hundreds of likes. I seriously want the same things but somehow people (AND ESPECIALLY DEVS) keep away from my threads.

Everyone who did read, said that suggestions were very good, but it's just that devs won't give any feedback.
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/64514-suggestions-for-alert-gameplay-and-upcoming-mission-overhauls-needs-devs-attention/

[Boatsniper]

Survival was a pretty good step in the right direction.

 

It removed one of the game modes that was basically a clone of another one, while adding a fast paced and frantic new game mode.

Raid was a "clone" of Capture because Digital Extremes refused to expand their differences, thus resulting in its unneeded removal. I'm just fine with survival, but replacing Raid with it was a huge mistake. There is literally no reason to remove content that large from a game.

[TGDM]

The reason we know where the objective is? Lotus doesn't ONLY work with us. As evidenced by the new Survival missions, there are NPC off-screen Tenno that are doing missions as well. Not to mention that Lotus is probably capable of hacking in to enemy systems (hence her ability to know if you are undetected or not) and could probably locate things that way.

 

I'll give you that the entrance/extraction points seem a bit strange, but the rest of your points don't really seem like they would improve gameplay.

[nekrojiji]

From the point of view of the people who got everything already built, yes this is a good idea.

From my point of view, where I have to grind 50 times the same mission just to get the blueprint I want, it would make this game not accesable for casual players.

 

Yes the idea is good, but the only way I see it working is to make a dynamic loot table wich checks your inventory (i.e. If you have Helmet and Systems blueprints the drop rate for those blueprints goes to 0%). And make blueprints reward not drop.

 

Building something sould be entertaining not boring.

[Boatsniper]

The reason we know where the objective is? Lotus doesn't ONLY work with us. As evidenced by the new Survival missions, there are NPC off-screen Tenno that are doing missions as well. Not to mention that Lotus is probably capable of hacking in to enemy systems (hence her ability to know if you are undetected or not) and could probably locate things that way.

 

I'll give you that the entrance/extraction points seem a bit strange, but the rest of your points don't really seem like they would improve gameplay.

I don't see how it wouldn't improve gameplay if you can still play like you always have. Options are not a bad thing.

[Hayden11121]

I was wondering when you would comment on this. The more support we have for this, the better chance it has to be implemented, or at least considered.

I've been stalking this thread since it first had 6 upvotes and was only a couple paragraphs long.

 

I just was just waiting for someone to say that it's a bad idea, so I could then defend you.

[WaRLocKTheoRy]

Nailed it here.

As stated on the livestream the older sets will eventually get replaced. If you are a level designer, send me your resume and help out then!

This is to be a general question, but I am incredibly curious... Are you guys looking for help or to hire at all? I am currently finishing my Game Design degree and am current shoulders deep in game development, so naturally I am curious find out more about that last statement. I would be more than happy to send you my resume.

[Boatsniper]

This is to be a general question, but I am incredibly curious... Are you guys looking for help or to hire at all? I am currently finishing my Game Design degree and am current shoulders deep in game development, so naturally I am curious find out more about that last statement. I would be more than happy to send you my resume.

I've been wondering the same thing (I'm still unsure if he was being sarcastic or not). However, I believe I saw something on their website about careers with Digital Extremes. I suggest taking a look there.

[Killerkarpfen]

No sarcasm, fishes don't do sarcasm.

 

Current job openings are here: http://www.digitalextremes.com/careers/postings especially the environment artist position is directly impacting level design. Two things: one, everyone can have an impact on the general game design. If you have a cool idea it will be heard, so don't be scared by the lack of pure Game Designer roles; two, except for the customer support roles I do not believe we currently offer any junior level positions, this might be the biggest hurdle for newcomers. It won't matter much if both your portfolio and attitude are kickass though.

 

Anyways, it won't hurt to spice up and send me your portfolio, pm me the link to it here, I'll promise to at the very least pass it on to the appropriate people.

[Boatsniper]

No sarcasm, fishes don't do sarcasm.

 

Current job openings are here: http://www.digitalextremes.com/careers/postings especially the environment artist position is directly impacting level design. Two things: one, everyone can have an impact on the general game design. If you have a cool idea it will be heard, so don't be scared by the lack of pure Game Designer roles; two, except for the customer support roles I do not believe we currently offer any junior level positions, this might be the biggest hurdle for newcomers. It won't matter much if both your portfolio and attitude are kickass though.

 

Anyways, it won't hurt to spice up and send me your portfolio, pm me the link to it here, I'll promise to at the very least pass it on to the appropriate people.

Welp, since I'm still in high school (and traveling to Canada of out of the question), I have to ask if there is any chance for online volunteer positions. I know the community moderators are volunteers, but are there any other positions or roles one could fill (-winkwinknudgenudge-)?

 

This probably should be a PM, but that wouldn't bump this topic. However, if you do know of any open spots, shoot a PM my way, please.

[Xenrax]

Would be nice if Lotus would give a very brief intro to the mission (just what you have to do and nothing extra) and then be silent the ENTIRE mission.  Period.

If we need help, we could do a Solid Snake style communicator (perhaps via a specific button/keybind or menu option) and Lotus could come up and give us tips/help as needed.

[Xenrax]

This entire 'WarFrame' game seems to be a purely console 'couch co-op' game that was shoehorned into an online game (doesn't qualify as an MMO as there is no persistance to the world and players can't affect/change the world much or at all).

 

Like most online games, the tutorial was nice.  The first mission was good (loved how everything goes dark after busting the reactor and EVERY SINGLE ENEMY is after you!).  Then that god-awful 'Rescue' mission just kept saying 'HAHA YOU ARE PLAYING A GAME YOU IDIOT' and smacking me over the head with a nerfbat over and over again with that worthless terrible crappy AI from damn 1999 constantly blocking my shots and getting in my way.  I felt like we'd completely reverted back to the days of Daikatana.

 

Yes, DE, YOUR RESCUE PRISONER AI IS SO TERRIBLE THAT IT REMINDS ME OF DAIKATANA!

If you were to remove 'Rescue' missions completely (or have them absorbed in your arm like the capture missions), then I doubt anyone would complain.

[Boatsniper]

Pardon the bump, but I would appreciate a bit more feedback, especially from the developers. They promised more communication, so...

Also, hooray for (almost) 150 upvotes. People like this, apparently.

[101blubb]

Also, hooray for (almost) 150 upvotes. People like this, apparently.

 

Lets make this >/=150. Missions not being interesting is the reason I'm on an indefinite hiatus from playing the game.

[Boatsniper]

Edited OP. Added relevant quotes from the topic.

[Teneroth]

Having read only the OP I agree with a lot of what has been said, but I also have disagreements.

 

For one, yes I find the 'waypoint to quest objective' a little odd, forcing players to hack a terminal to get a map which they have to explore to find the objective a little off what warframe is. Warframe is fast paced, you are a space-ninja, you strike quickly, accomplish your objective and get out before anyone can stop you. It could also be argued that in the spy missions you are stealing layouts and locations of valuable items to help support other missions. 

 

What I would suggest, rather than completely reworking Warframe from a fast paced third person shooter into a slower stealth and exploration based one, is chaining missions. Here's what I mean.

 

For bigger, grander missions, string several together in a single map. Generate a large complex, perhaps even an entire ship, and give the Tenno a single objective that will require several steps. Rather than 'grab artifact get out' which is typical of the now dead raid mission, you have to charge in, pull a data mass from a console, bring the data mass to a Lotus entry point where she can analyze it, while you hold of the enemy, the hacked information gives you the location of an artifact which you have to get to, grab and then get out. 

 

I do like the idea of hacking consoles to shut down lights and lock doors and stuff, so long as the AI is capable of undoing those changes if they reach a console of their own (que star wars scene where the storm troopers are trying to open a blast door with luke on the other side). Especially if you start getting higher levels where these grand missions require good teamwork.

 

And at higher levels these missions should be HARD. For one, you can't build a frame specifically for it, I basically have a frame for each mission type, my frost handles defense missions, my vaubon is built for mobile defense and infested, my banshee handles capture and spy... by stringing several together you force players to work together or produce more general frames. Throw in 'hicks' in the plan would be cool too, especially to prevent the 'instant fail' on one part.

 

For example, a team starts a grand mission, they have to capture a VIP who knows the codes to access an orokin relic the tenno want. They capture the VIP, deliver his downloaded person to Lotus who starts extracting information. However, half the team wanders off looking for nav balls, and the terminal with the digital VIP is destroyed.

 

Instead of a 'mission failure' popping up and dumping the players to the lobby, Lotus, being a smart AI, has the location of the relic and believes she can hack it, given time, assuming the tenno deliver her to the proper console. There is a downside though, while most of the ship is controlled by corpus the console which has access to the relic is in an infested section, which is why the corpus haven't been able to remove it and prevent that little back door. So you have to fight through corpus and, now, infested, retrieve the access codes from the other, harder to get to terminal, then get the relic.

 

Or maybe lotus finds out that destroying the ship's reactor will unlock all ship systems, letting the tenno hack the console personally, but will destroy the ship after a period which is why she preferred to hack the VIP's mind. 

 

Stuff like that, rather than simply 'find objective, kill/retrieve/destroy/capture objective, escape' there would be longer, more in depth missions which retain the fast pace warframe is known for, and providing opportunity for exploration so long as you don't do it to the detriment of the mission.

 

Just my two credits

[Iromandav]

I enjoy the feel of Warframe. The maps are not a real issue when it comes to depth, with me. The problem I find to be recurring is people tend to blitz missions and skip tons of possible loot.

 

Loot is the single most important reason I even play RPGs. 

 

Lockers and caches need better loot. This will entice players to slow down and give the content the necessary time to catch up with the flow of these 'ninja'class mission blitzers'. 

 

The speed of warframes has really set the pace on mission completion and indirectly affects total possible rewards. Cash is not a huge problem to most players after a few days but loot is always a problem, especially when the basic rewards are stated at the onset.

 

Lower level mods could be logically stored in lockers or cache bunkers. Higher level mods might be dropped by lieutenants and rare mods could exist on bosses. By mod level I mean, mods that are already esteemed and valued beyond it's designation, such as Uncommon or Rare.

 

An uncommon mod might be valued as Rare for a player who has waited two days to find such a thing. Whereas I have personally picked up Rare mods in the least expected missions... which had no value to me or my direction. 

[Boatsniper]

The ideas remain unheard! It is time for another bump, as much as I hate to do these.

[MofineBovine]

building off what I've read in the OP

 

Capture mission

 

"our target must not know we're here"

you hear lotus say it all the time but it really doesn't matter does it?

 

now it does

 

on top of needing to find out where the target is (through hacking and exploring) if you're detected the target will start to move towards the escape pods/fight deck w/e and leave, you can prevent this in a number of ways through teamwork by having someone split off and hack the doors to cut off escape ahead of time or finding the main computer (mini boss there) and putting in new coordinates to all the escape pods or say the target has his/her own shuttle then enter in the new coordinates directly, poor s o b thinks they've gotten away from the tenno only to fly right into the lotus's waiting hands

 

but lets say you're spotted

the target leaves

missions not over

 

now you're to eliminate the crew and blow the ship/evidence that you were there

pull this off and you're still rewarded

pull off a flawless stealth capture and the RNG chances for rare rewards would be a bit better

 

OR

 

going back to

missions not over

 

start an infestation on the ship, infect a crew member and avoid futher detection while you make your get away after you've stolen the ships records

there are just so many ways to add to this game it makes me hopeful and depressed

+ 1 to this. very good idea.