Let's Talk About Captain Vor

[OblivionNecroninja]

So, Vor is the first boss of Warframe. He should be something that new players can beat, and get a sense of accomplishment from.

But, right now he's got some pretty severe problems.

1. His minions turn a fight from one that a new player can probably reasonably handle to one that they can't. Vor should not have ANY grineer in the room with him.

2. Seer. The low drop rates combined with the weapon's three-part nature means that high-level players who want a sniper pistol end up doing quite a lot of Vor farming. And while some of them certainly have the courtesy to do it Solo or Private, some are doing it Online. Which means they end up grouped with newbies, who now either have to deal with a level 20+ Vor or not get to participate in the fight because the veteran murdered him too fast.

3. Lack of explanation for his Tesla grenades. The first time I fought Vor, I got really &!$$ed because I had NO IDEA where the beams of yellow that were killing me were coming from. And, for some dumb reason, Lotus warns you about his teleporting (which has no meaningful affect on the fight) rather than about his telsas.

 

EDIT: When I say Vor's "minions" I mean the huge number of Grineer that start in the room with him, NOT the ones he summons. Sorry for the confusion.

EDIT 2: DAMMIT PEOPLE, this isn't a "waah vor is too hard i cant beat him" thread! I'm saying that he has several features that make him a non-optimal first boss. The thing that inspired me to post this was bringing a friend through Vor a couple of days ago.

Edited August 21, 2013 by OblivionNecroninja

[Aigloblam]

Do you even remember the old Vor? The guy was pathetic in the extreme, lvl 1 frames could mop the floor with him. He wasnt so much a boss, as a better painted target. This new Vor actually requires Skill and Strategy.

[-Naero-]

Let's talk about Vor baby, let's talk about you and me. Let's talk about Vor.

[OblivionNecroninja]

Do you even remember the old Vor? The guy was pathetic in the extreme, lvl 1 frames could mop the floor with him. He wasnt so much a boss, as a better painted target. This new Vor actually requires Skill and Strategy.

I started playing after the New Vor was introduced, so no I actually don't.

I'm not saying he's a bad boss (he's not), I'm saying he's a bad FIRST boss. Big difference there.

And I agree that he requires skill and strategy. I just don't think it's fair to expect new players to pull those out while dealing with his 20 buddies.

Edited August 21, 2013 by OblivionNecroninja

[Aigloblam]

I started playing after the New Vor was introduced, so no I actually don't.

I'm not saying he's a bad boss (he's not), I'm saying he's a bad FIRST boss. Big difference there.

And I agree that he requires skill and strategy. I just don't think it's fair to expect new players to pull those out while dealing with his 20 buddies.

Its totally fair. Because when you can do it, You know you have the skill to move on to the next planet. You're going to have to handle more than one really strong person at once..as im sure you know by now.

[EinRyu]

Lol he also fires a lazor when you get him after his 2nd bubble state :x Oh did I mention the tesla's can attach to you? Funny as hell.

 

Either way. Vor's fine now, the old Vor was literally 1 shot paradise even for low levels it was seriously sad and proposed no challenge, I do understand your complaints and I do hope at one point DE adds a leveling system for Lobby so that you have the choice to go with people around your MR or people of all ranges. As that would honestly fix most of the problems people like you face with bossing.

[Jamescell]

Lets not talk about Vor... If they fixed the matchmaking, so it was based on mastery, the advanced players wouldn't often be carrying the missions. And it would be nice if seer was a 100% drop, with no parts, and worked like the melee weapon he drops, with a decreasing drop rate, but I don't think it will happen. Since many of the new players who get to Vor don't understand how to build weapons, especially multi part weapons, seer should work like the melee weapon Vor drops. It is not an op weapon, so it should not be exclusive for advanced players.

[OblivionNecroninja]

I should point out that I've been playing this game for 2 weeks and am now on level 30ish content. The "high level players hunting Seer ruin Vor for others" bit actually came from something that happened when I took a newbie friend and my new Banshee to go fight him. I set it to Private instead of Invite Only, and one of my friends dropped in with a high-level frame >.<
I also understand that this guy is a million times better than Old Vor.

 

I don't think he needs much of a change (except the removal of the grineer who spawn in the room with him), I just think there needs to be more communication to the player about his tesla grenades.

[J.C.Santos]

So, Vor is the first boss of Warframe. He should be something that new players can beat, and get a sense of accomplishment from.

But, right now he's got some pretty severe problems.

1. His minions turn a fight from one that a new player can probably reasonably handle to one that they can't. Vor should not have ANY grineer in the room with him.

2. Seer. The low drop rates combined with the weapon's three-part nature means that high-level players who want a sniper pistol end up doing quite a lot of Vor farming. And while some of them certainly have the courtesy to do it Solo or Private, some are doing it Online. Which means they end up grouped with newbies, who now either have to deal with a level 20+ Vor or not get to participate in the fight because the veteran murdered him too fast.

3. Lack of explanation for his Tesla grenades. The first time I fought Vor, I got really &!$$ed because I had NO IDEA where the beams of yellow that were killing me were coming from. And, for some dumb reason, Lotus warns you about his teleporting (which has no meaningful affect on the fight) rather than about his telsas.

 

EDIT: When I say Vor's "minions" I mean the huge number of Grineer that start in the room with him, NOT the ones he summons. Sorry for the confusion.

 

About the first point, I don't think it's such a big deal since players have to deal with Grineer units in every boss fight (excluding the Jackal). Removing them would actually be completely unnecessary (when I started the game I never had problems with them).

About the second point, it depends. I got all the parts to build Seer within one day and I playied Online. When the game started I looked at my teammates first to check if anyone was a newbie and I took it easy. I actually waited for them, let them have fun and kill the enemies and protected them from risky situations (and revived them if they needed). So, it's not an actual problem, it's just high level players that don't have the patience to be understanding towards newbies.

About the the third point, totally agree. The Lotus should be more helpful in terms of tips to take down the bosses she asks us to kill. But that is not only for Vor but for all bosses. When I did Sargas I died quite a few times because I didn't understood his Bullet Attractor or when I did Krill I didn't understood what was I supposed to do. But I'm sure it's being fixed.

[OblivionNecroninja]

My problem with putting Grineer in the Vor fight is that they synergize REALLY WELL with him. The Grineer force you into cover, where there's no way to stay safe from Vor's combination of teleportation and tesla grenades. ESPECIALLY if you're unlucky enough to enter the boss room on the low end rather than the high one.

 

Also, skilled players DON'T have to deal with the grineer mooks, because they know they can delay the boss triggering by not looking at him, and just kill the goons before triggering the boss fight.

Edited August 21, 2013 by OblivionNecroninja

[Aigloblam]

My problem with putting Grineer in the Vor fight is that they synergize REALLY WELL with him. The Grineer force you into cover, where there's no way to stay safe from Vor's combination of teleportation and tesla grenades. ESPECIALLY if you're unlucky enough to enter the boss room on the low end rather than the high one.

 

Also, skilled players DON'T have to deal with the grineer mooks, because they know they can delay the boss triggering by not looking at him, and just kill the goons before triggering the boss fight.

So whats stopping you from shooting them long range? Even when he spawns them (does he still do that, or was that a glitch?) you can just Jump away (usually down off the platform or up on top of it, wherever he isnt) and snipe them to death.

 

[OblivionNecroninja]

So whats stopping you from shooting them long range? Even when he spawns them (does he still do that, or was that a glitch?) you can just Jump away (usually down off the platform or up on top of it, wherever he isnt) and snipe them to death.

 

Yes he still spawns Grineer. Thankfully.  Otherwise, his unfun bubble of invulnerability would literally just be a way to waste the player's time.

The problem is that the huge mob of grineer who start in the room with Vor can spit a TON of damage (for low level enemies) downrange, and, if you're unlucky to get the boss room entrance near the bridge rather than the one on the platforms, they have a tendency to stand on top of Vor's platform and rain grakata fire down on you. Which sucks.

Plus, the first time I fought Vor, there were so many that I thought there were an unlimited number pouring in from another door or something >.<

[Aigloblam]

Yes he still spawns Grineer. Thankfully.  Otherwise, his unfun bubble of invulnerability would literally just be a way to waste the player's time.

The problem is that the huge mob of grineer who start in the room with Vor can spit a TON of damage (for low level enemies) downrange, and, if you're unlucky to get the boss room entrance near the bridge rather than the one on the platforms, they have a tendency to stand on top of Vor's platform and rain grakata fire down on you. Which sucks.

Plus, the first time I fought Vor, there were so many that I thought there were an unlimited number pouring in from another door or something >.<

Ignore Vor. Seriously. He cant do enough damage with you weaving in and out of his troops, killing at your leisure.

What frame do you usually go against him with?

[OblivionNecroninja]

Ignore Vor. Seriously. He cant do enough damage with you weaving in and out of his troops, killing at your leisure.

What frame do you usually go against him with?

Ok, we're not talking about what I "usually" do. We're talking about what I did when I first started. At the time, I was a Mag. With a Mk1 Braton, a Lato, and a Skana. Maybe I had a Sicarius. Maybe.

Much later when I decided I wanted Seer, I brought the same Mag, a Gorgon, a Kraken, and my Dual Ether Blades and just MURDERED him.

 

And I agree, Vor's pistol is negligible (his Yellow Beams, not so much, especially on low-level frames). But how are newbies supposed to know that? In the tutorial, this guy smashes your warframe in one move! That just SCREAMS "This Guy Is Dangerous!"

Edited August 21, 2013 by OblivionNecroninja

[Aigloblam]

Ok, we're not talking about what I "usually" do. We're talking about what I did when I first started. At the time, I was a Mag. With a Mk1 Braton, a Lato, and a Skana. Maybe I had a Sicarius. Maybe.

Much later when I decided I wanted Seer, I brought the same Mag, a Gorgon, a Kraken, and my Dual Ether Blades and just MURDERED him.

 

And I agree, Vor's pistol is negligible (his Yellow Beams, not so much, especially on low-level frames). But how are newbies supposed to know that? In the tutorial, this guy smashes your warframe in one move! That just SCREAMS "This Guy Is Dangerous!"

The way all of us learned....Figure it out by playing. I dont think everything should be spelled out for you before the battle, I think one of the most fun things ive ever done on this game is my first Jackal Fight.

We were all Really low rank frames, that got dragged in to a Jackal Alert by another guy who had played a while. a lvl 31 Jackal is NIGHTMARE when your highest ranked anything is a 2nd level frame with no potato. We had never heard of Jackal before, and as such had NO Idea how to kill him. We fought him for 45 minutes before figuring it out. It was one of the best gaming experiences that i've ever had. Such a feeling of Triumph...

[MageMeat]

The teleporting has one effect: being really annoying to snipers.

[Hayden11121]

Do you even remember the old Vor? The guy was pathetic in the extreme, lvl 1 frames could mop the floor with him. He wasnt so much a boss, as a better painted target. This new Vor actually requires Skill and Strategy.

There is no real way to avoid Tesla's other then get the F*** out of the room. Excuse my French, but.. this guy takes less skill. Before at least I could kite. Now I have to facetank half the things he throws at me.

[hickwarrior]

There is no real way to avoid Tesla's other then get the F*** out of the room. Excuse my French, but.. this guy takes less skill. Before at least I could kite. Now I have to facetank half the things he throws at me.

Ugh, so much this... He throws down those stupid and they keep zapping you until you are out of their range. It's nonsensical and basically makes it where you need to play keepaway to win against him. Preferable with weapons that are very accurate and kind of hit scan.

 

Speaking of, but I'll derail this thread, I hate how certain bosses, are like *boom* shields gone for no explained reason. *boom* Now you're dead. It might show me that I cannot take the boss, but I think it's a special kind of stupid when a boss can 1-2 shot you with a very high chance of succeeding at it, when you need to use the thousand cuts technique to bring them down. That doesn't feel fair...

[MageMeat]

Ugh, so much this... He throws down those stupid and they keep zapping you until you are out of their range. It's nonsensical and basically makes it where you need to play keepaway to win against him. Preferable with weapons that are very accurate and kind of hit scan.

 

Speaking of, but I'll derail this thread, I hate how certain bosses, are like *boom* shields gone for no explained reason. *boom* Now you're dead. It might show me that I cannot take the boss, but I think it's a special kind of stupid when a boss can 1-2 shot you with a very high chance of succeeding at it, when you need to use the thousand cuts technique to bring them down. That doesn't feel fair...

So Phorid.

One of my most hated bosses for the mere fact that the instant kill projectiles always come at the beginning of the battle and cover is sparse.

[Archistopheles]

EDIT 2: DAMMIT PEOPLE, this isn't a "waah vor is too hard i cant beat him" thread! I'm saying that he has several features that make him a non-optimal first boss. The thing that inspired me to post this was bringing a friend through Vor a couple of days ago.

 

Well, lets talk about his "non-optimal" features, then.

 

1. All bosses have minions like Vor does. The player better get used to this.

 

2. Vor still drops Cronus the first time you kill him, and Cronus is still a great way to introduce players to the foundry.

 

3. Tenno should be able to think on their feet. If a newb dies to yellow beams of light, maybe they'll ask questions and start thinking about the game more. This is not a punishing feature, it's a learning curve.

[Aigloblam]

Well, lets talk about his "non-optimal" features, then.

 

1. All bosses have minions like Vor does. The player better get used to this.

 

2. Vor still drops Cronus the first time you kill him, and Cronus is still a great way to introduce players to the foundry.

 

3. Tenno should be able to think on their feet. If a newb dies to yellow beams of light, maybe they'll ask questions and start thinking about the game more. This is not a punishing feature, it's a learning curve.

Amen.

[OblivionNecroninja]

Well, lets talk about his "non-optimal" features, then.

 

1. All bosses have minions like Vor does. The player better get used to this.

 

2. Vor still drops Cronus the first time you kill him, and Cronus is still a great way to introduce players to the foundry.

 

3. Tenno should be able to think on their feet. If a newb dies to yellow beams of light, maybe they'll ask questions and start thinking about the game more. This is not a punishing feature, it's a learning curve.

1. Honestly, I think this is a difference of opinion; of all the bosses I faced, Vor was the only one where his minons were a meaningful part of the fight (the first time I fought him), mostly because of my low level (meaning I didn't have the health or energy/ult to deal with them easily). Maybe he just needs less minons then he has atm? Or maybe the minions could be mostly troopers instead of mostly lancers?

2. No, the problem with Seer is that it causes high level players to go to Tolstoj, get grouped with newbies, drive up Vor's level, and cause the newbie to be completely irrelevant (which is no fun at all)

3. I figured out pretty quickly that he was putting down Things which produced The Yellow. What I didn't realize was that he could stick them to me. And, honestly, once that happens (if you're low level), you're screwed. 

[Ob1Kn00b]

He's a wonderful boss for new players, and though it took a few struggles, I learned how to deal with him without any higher-tier people around.

 

He just teaches you to not stand in the lightning-balls.