The Real Challenge - Lv 200+ Zones - New Planet +

[pdxdubin]

PvP!? You do realize the immense problem that would create, right? Let me explain, if they add in PvP then they would start the absurd, cyclical, and infinite plight of balancing the game between PvP and PvE; the same problem that has haunted WoW since it launched. DE has enough trouble balance the current Frames without PvP. The simple answer to any suggestion of PvP in a PvE game is NO.

 

 

There already working on pvp? 

 

So............

Sorry to burst your bubble ;P 

 

 

I don't see the issue with a new game +

 

As I said I don't want simple bullet sponges, I want the stronger difficulty to start introducing mini bosses and harder hitting enemies.

Anyone that thinks this Means I want lv 200 Bullet sponges is in fact daft.

As, if you were informed.  DE is working on the armor / armor piercing systems and scaling all of the damage into a neutral position.

Meaning that no, they would not be bullet sponges.

However metaphorically lv 200+ content resembles not just stronger enemies, but more challenges, more variation.

Maybe some of the chargers are 3x larger and on fire, 

Or maybe some of the ancients leave behind trails of poison that paralyzes you.

Do you all lack imagination to the point where I have to literally lay out every thought out of my idea, and write a 200000 word thread just to explain it properly?

 

No, I don't Use your brain, and instead of just shooting down a perfectly solid, and viable suggestion, why not contribute to it and make it better.

 

Arguing, and going against a point is one thing, But then again the more positive reaction is to benefit the original thread, and contribute it. 

All to build a better, and more refined thesis.

These threads are here for a reason, Not to sell ideas, but to create them.

Whether its an individual idea, or something that everyone compiles together. 

And this applies to all threads, not just my own. 

Get your heads out of your - 

 

 

[Eulo]

There already working on pvp? 

 

So............

Sorry to burst your bubble ;P 

 

False. Sorry to burst your bubble. They have (Steve specifically, maybe Scott too) said in multiple livestreams they DO NOT want any more PvP other than the "sparring" feature the Dojo's currently have.

[Dasmir]

Artificial difficulty =/= challenging...

[snrd3r]

 

As I said I don't want simple bullet sponges, I want the stronger difficulty to start introducing mini bosses and harder hitting enemies.

...

Do you all lack imagination to the point where I have to literally lay out every thought out of my idea, and write a 200000 word thread just to explain it properly?

 

Hmm...

 

 

maybe lv 1000

Lv 1000 enemies plz 

But I still want lv 1000 enemies

Level 10,000 Enemies would be such a great addition 

 

How else are we supposed to interpret your apparent inability to describe your supposed idea of a "challenge" without simply referring to a number?

 

Get your heads out of your -

 

Heh

Hehehe

Edited August 24, 2013 by snrd3r

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

Level 200 enemies in not a challenge. They will just turn into boring bullet sponges capable of one-shotting you and that's all. 

[gell]

Hey, from the same user who thinks having 1000s of players in a clan is a good idea, we get the suggestion of having level 1000 enemies, when armor and health scaling is terribly implemented for anything higher than around level 130. Aside from it being a terrible idea, it's entirely unnecessary too.

 

Hey pdx and all the others who want super high level enemies, see how well your super Nova plays on Wave 120 on Xini or Outer Terminus. While you're there, see what level those enemies are. No, you can't handle level 1000 enemies, and well before you even get there, you'll be asking for a buff since damage will be awful.

 

Let's let DE attempt to fix armor/elements first before we ask for higher level enemies. I love challenge, but scaling enemies up some more isn't going to achieve that. Make them randomly smarter or give them properties and modifiers, like a Burning High-Speed Heavy Gunner who can [wind up and] Slash Dash. That'll scare us. :)

[drakwon]

False. Sorry to burst your bubble. They have (Steve specifically, maybe Scott too) said in multiple livestreams they DO NOT want any more PvP other than the "sparring" feature the Dojo's currently have.

then why did they announce non clan dueling arenas that will be located on your star map? 

[pdxdubin]

False. Sorry to burst your bubble. They have (Steve specifically, maybe Scott too) said in multiple livestreams they DO NOT want any more PvP other than the "sparring" feature the Dojo's currently have.

Sparring = pvp 

 

And they are currently working on a 2v2 arena, and a star map dueling area.

 

Go watch a live stream 

[TunaMayo]

When it comes to difficulties in this game, I hope that future "harder" difficulties aren't just a damage and health boost, but enemies specific to that difficulty. Examples for when you go up in difficulties : 

 

Grineer

 

Level 1 - What we have now

Level 2 - Introduce some bigger, smarter enemy types. IE, Brawler (Big brute, rushing, heavy melee type, consequence of gene tinkering), and Trapper (small, smart, trap laying enemies, get you stuck for brawler to hit you. Can teleport selves).

Level 3 - Ontop of level 2, you now get minibosses (ie Grineer mech/Brawler Elite etc)

 

Corpus

 

Level 1 - What we have now

Level 2 - Ontop of Level 1, Grenade Moas (spew grenades), Chaingun Moas (wind up, big damage), Rocket Crewman (tendency to blow themselves up for jokes).

Level 3 - Ontop of Level 2, Minibosses (Jackals/Hyena/Ambulas/Raptors at random) and prototype warframes (parkour using, power using, hard to kill prototypes. Like stalker squads but more in your face).

 

Infested

 

Level 1 - What we have now

Level 2 - Ontop of Level 1, Flyers (suicidal exploding flying bat type things, alone mean nothing, in groups can be lethal), Spitters (Like the nauseous crawlers but can get you from range).

Level 3 - Ontop of level 2, Minibosses (Phorid-esque sized infested of all types) and I'd like to see infested Tenno.

 

Anyways, this is the sort of thing I'd like to see, more variation in difficult enemies, rather than just health and armour buffs.

[pdxdubin]

Let's let DE attempt to fix armor/elements first before we ask for higher level enemies.

I mean logically.

Use your brain, Its obvious I want this "After" the armor is reworked, because it was stated right out in the open on the live stream that they are fixing it.

 

AND AFTER they fix the armor ratings, the game is going to be a cake walk,

Who knows how to they do it, But right now I'm basically already killing lv 400 enemies in 2 seconds with my acrid.

 

Now honestly, Take the OP as a metaphor "For More Difficult Content"

 

That's the only point I have.  Game is too easy. 

[pdxdubin]

When it comes to difficulties in this game, I hope that future "harder" difficulties aren't just a damage and health boost, but enemies specific to that difficulty. Examples for when you go up in difficulties : 

 

Grineer

 

Level 1 - What we have now

Level 2 - Introduce some bigger, smarter enemy types. IE, Brawler (Big brute, rushing, heavy melee type, consequence of gene tinkering), and Trapper (small, smart, trap laying enemies, get you stuck for brawler to hit you. Can teleport selves).

Level 3 - Ontop of level 2, you now get minibosses (ie Grineer mech/Brawler Elite etc)

 

Corpus

 

Level 1 - What we have now

Level 2 - Ontop of Level 1, Grenade Moas (spew grenades), Chaingun Moas (wind up, big damage), Rocket Crewman (tendency to blow themselves up for jokes).

Level 3 - Ontop of Level 2, Minibosses (Jackals/Hyena/Ambulas/Raptors at random) and prototype warframes (parkour using, power using, hard to kill prototypes. Like stalker squads but more in your face).

 

Infested

 

Level 1 - What we have now

Level 2 - Ontop of Level 1, Flyers (suicidal exploding flying bat type things, alone mean nothing, in groups can be lethal), Spitters (Like the nauseous crawlers but can get you from range).

Level 3 - Ontop of level 2, Minibosses (Phorid-esque sized infested of all types) and I'd like to see infested Tenno.

 

Anyways, this is the sort of thing I'd like to see, more variation in difficult enemies, rather than just health and armour buffs.

 

 

This ^ 

 

+ higher leveled content, so that we are not allowed to just stand in the middle of the map absorbing bullets.

Normally I would actually use the simple cover system they have and actually work my way through missions.

 

Killing enemies in this game is like watching dominos fall over,

And after you see 2000+ Dominos fall over in a row, you start to get bored of it 

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

I mean logically.

Use your brain, Its obvious I want this "After" the armor is reworked, because it was stated right out in the open on the live stream that they are fixing it.

 

AND AFTER they fix the armor ratings, the game is going to be a cake walk,

Who knows how to they do it, But right now I'm basically already killing lv 400 enemies in 2 seconds with my acrid.

 

Now honestly, Take the OP as a metaphor "For More Difficult Content"

 

That's the only point I have.  Game is too easy. 

 

Oh please, quit your elitist BS. "hurr durr game iz too ez i am so good i want enemies to be 200+ level". I guess you are the one who should use brain here. Leveling our enemies to god-tier is the worst design desicion possible and you are the reason why we can't have nice things. 

 

Yes, more difficult content is needed, but not the stuff you are proposing. I swear, if they will add nothing but overleveled enemies in the future I'll quit the game for good. 

[Destro6677]

Dubin, you do realize that doing this would make formaing and re-leveling a weapon impossible for all but the most skilled players with maxed mods. Even if it is optional, why not just start leveling at Xini then? You would have unlocked it at that point anyhow.

 

What you, and players like you need, is nightmare ++ mode as a toggle.

 

Don't spoil everyone's fun to give yourself some additional fun that you should get at some point in the future when they release nightmare ++.

 

If you want nightmare ++, simply start a topic asking for it, I think you will get at least some support.

 

Or do you not remember the massive complaint threads that came out when enemies did not scale properly when U9 was newly released?

Edited August 25, 2013 by Destro6677

[pdxdubin]

Oh please, quit your elitist BS. "hurr durr game iz too ez i am so good i want enemies to be 200+ level". I guess you are the one who should use brain here. Leveling our enemies to god-tier is the worst design desicion possible and you are the reason why we can't have nice things. 

 

Yes, more difficult content is needed, but not the stuff you are proposing. I swear, if they will add nothing but overleveled enemies in the future I'll quit the game for good. 

 

Why is it so hard to understand difficulty progression. 

 

Do I need to lay everything out for you, since you have a lack of imagination. 

 

Right now Pluto starts out at lv 60 

It is a level 60 content area.

There is nothing wrong with expanding on that, to make maps more difficult.

And with higher leveled content, there should also

Be the addition of

 

- Mini Bosses

- Elite enemies

- Challenges

- Achievements

- More random events

- Smaller chance of energy / health orbs

- Better mod drops, higher rate of rare mods.

- More extreme ( Shadow of the colossus style boss fights )

 

Right now the low leveled areas are fine, it gives players a place to get good at the game.

But as you continue to get more and more powerful, you should have something that would be challenging.

 

Think of borderlands, and diablo for example.

New game + Does not just mean bullet sponges, It means new and special enemy types, mini bosses.

We could see captain vor as a normal enemy, a random event, HE comes in and shoots you up like the stalker. 

 

We could see some infested enemies that multiply, and split apart, Some infested enemies with ranged attacks.

Yea I could have just put this all into the OP, But specifically when you read what I wrote ( Level 200 enemies )

 

Just use that as a starting point and expand upon it instead of shooting down a commonly wanted concept in this game.]

Whats so bad about that dude? 

If you like just running around and face rolling enemies for fun, then continue to play on mercury for the rest of your life.

 

And Instead of just complaining, why not give your own ideas, and 

 

"Tell me"

 

What you would like to see for end game / more challenging content.

I know this thread sucked at specifying that, But Now you are being asked.

What do you want to see?

[BoOz]

A real challenge would be to have a more intelligently done cast of enemies. They all follow the same formula for each faction for the most part. Increasing the level is just a lazy way of fixing the true problem. There is nothing to fear right now, doesn't matter what the unit is, or what level the unit is.

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

Now you've pretty much covered what I want to see, because, yes, your OP was like "game too ez lvl up our enemies".

 

Now I disagree about Borderlands way of leveling up. Yea, it brings new enemies but it also levels them up AND brings you more powerful weapons, so you can't play NG+ with standart NG weapons. In Warframe you will be forced to use Acrid only (which is only "overpowered" because it ignores armor), because other weapons (except a few AP ones) will be utterly useless. Now imagine if DE give you NG+ weapon. People will bring it to NG and start spamming forums with "omg op you killed the gaem" threads. 

 

So, the good way to give us challenge:

 

1) Random boss events

2) New AI 

3) Faction Special Forces (squads of powerful enemies (but not cheap ones) that will spawn and hunt Tenno down, like the Stalker)

4) Challenges and achievements, this is must have, of course

5) New boss fights (in progess)

6) Not sure about less chance of energy drops, though, I never get enough energy only if it's not Defense/Mobile Defense

 

Also keep in mind that enemies should not be higher than lvl 80-90, otherwise it would be just not fun to fight them.

 

 

The bad way to give us challenge.

1) Level our enemies to god-tier (lvl 150+)

2) Give enemies poor AI but cheap mechanics like stun, stagger, stunlock, toxins. (remember Scorpion's hit-scan-goes-through-the-wall hook which was extremly annoying and requied no skill or whatsoever to dodge it (it was impossible))

Edited August 26, 2013 by 3XT3RM1NATUS

[pdxdubin]

Now you've pretty much covered what I want to see, because, yes, your OP was like "game too ez lvl up our enemies".

 

How I disagree about Borderlands way of leveling up. Yea, it brings new enemies but it also levels them up AND brings you more powerful weapons, so you can't play NG+ with standart NG weapons. In Warframe you will be forced to use Acrid only (which is only "overpowered" because it ignores armor), because other weapons (except a few AP ones) will be utterly useless. Now imagine if DE give you NG+ weapon. People will bring it to NG and start spamming forums with "omg op you killed the gaem" threads. 

 

So, the good way to give us challenge:

 

1) Random boss events

2) New AI 

3) Faction Special Forces (squads of powerful enemies (but not cheap ones) that will spawn and hunt Tenno down, like the Stalker)

4) Challenges and achievements, this is must have, of course

5) New boss fights (in progess)

6) Not sure about less chance of energy drops, though, I never get enough energy only if it's not Defense/Mobile Defense

 

Also keep in mind that enemies should not be higher than lvl 80-90, otherwise it would be just not fun to fight them.

 

 

The bad way to give us challenge.

1) Level our enemies to god-tier (lvl 150+)

2) Give enemies poor AI but cheap mechanics like stun, stagger, stunlock, toxins. (remember Scorpion's hit-scan-goes-through-the-wall hook which was extremly annoying and requied no skill or whatsoever to dodge it (it was impossible))

 

This 

[Crunchyblack]

If only you read some of the real arguments against it. Like mine. Then you would notice why a simple new planet+ is a bad idea.

 

Also, this doesn't solve Warframe's problem at all. There is still no reason TO FARM these things. We have no endgame and no point to do anything but try to make the new weapons that come out, and that's an empty point in itself because the weapons just help us farm more weapons.

 

New Planet + solves nothing. Higher level enemies solves nothing. The way warframe is played needs to change.

 

I totally agree, but I never even hinted that this would be a "fix", just an easily implemented add that would give the game a little "oomph" while we do wait, as it stands now the game is extremely boring at higher levels and although I totally agree that just slapping higher level mobs into the game will not do much, at least it would be something while they work on the bigger issues.

 

Either way I do hope they can add something in everyone can enjoy that makes the game slightly more challenging, because all of the problems we state with 200+ enemies still applies to the current build of the game, except they're 60 and line up for their daily headshots.

[Eulo]

then why did they announce non clan dueling arenas that will be located on your star map? 

 

 

Sparring = pvp 

 

And they are currently working on a 2v2 arena, and a star map dueling area.

 

Go watch a live stream 

I must have mised that part; I stand corrected.

 

Either way, I hope they re-consider.

 

[Voidflow]

Please no more higher levels, it will make you more unhappy than only one level in game, with more difficulties. 

Levels and scaling of armor damage etc. doesn't change boredom you have now, it shift it to a later time point. 

The level gap between mercury and your new shiny 200+ world will be higher and so your boredom, after you are done with lvl 200+ world ...

 

Even unbalanced pvp is a better cure ... Maybe there are other warframe users with memories out there (kind of new fraction), maybe like stalker. So a part of us could change the side, who knows. But please no higher levels and countless defenses which makes no sense and are just for personal ego ...

 

We need more difficulty and not just higher scaling. That means better AI, strong AI abilities, maybe more shields but not health and armor. 

Edited August 26, 2013 by Voidflow

[pdxdubin]

Please no more higher levels, it will make you more unhappy than only one level in game, with more difficulties. 

Levels and scaling of armor damage etc. doesn't change boredom you have now, it shift it to a later time point. 

The level gap between mercury and your new shiny 200+ world will be higher and so your boredom, after you are done with lvl 200+ world ...

 

Even unbalanced pvp is a better cure ... Maybe there are other warframe users with memories out there (kind of new fraction), maybe like stalker. So a part of us could change the side, who knows. But please no higher levels and countless defenses which makes no sense and are just for personal ego ...

 

We need more difficulty and not just higher scaling. That means better AI, strong AI abilities, maybe more shields but not health and armor. 

 

 

 

This was directed at someone else,

 But I guess goes further into my ideas 

 

Why is it so hard to understand difficulty progression. 

 

Do I need to lay everything out for you, since you have a lack of imagination. 

 

Right now Pluto starts out at lv 60 

It is a level 60 content area.

There is nothing wrong with expanding on that, to make maps more difficult.

And with higher leveled content, there should also

Be the addition of

 

- Mini Bosses

- Elite enemies

- Challenges

- Achievements

- More random events

- Smaller chance of energy / health orbs

- Better mod drops, higher rate of rare mods.

- More extreme ( Shadow of the colossus style boss fights )

 

Right now the low leveled areas are fine, it gives players a place to get good at the game.

But as you continue to get more and more powerful, you should have something that would be challenging.

 

Think of borderlands, and diablo for example.

New game + Does not just mean bullet sponges, It means new and special enemy types, mini bosses.

We could see captain vor as a normal enemy, a random event, HE comes in and shoots you up like the stalker. 

 

We could see some infested enemies that multiply, and split apart, Some infested enemies with ranged attacks.

Yea I could have just put this all into the OP, But specifically when you read what I wrote ( Level 200 enemies )

 

Just use that as a starting point and expand upon it instead of shooting down a commonly wanted concept in this game.]

Whats so bad about that dude? 

If you like just running around and face rolling enemies for fun, then continue to play on mercury for the rest of your life.

 

And Instead of just complaining, why not give your own ideas, and 

 

"Tell me"

 

What you would like to see for end game / more challenging content.

I know this thread sucked at specifying that, But Now you are being asked.

What do you want to see?

 

Edited August 26, 2013 by pdxdubin