Mastery Tests Pointlessness

[SqualZell]

I'm MR 16, I haven't failed a single test yet,

however, I do go and practice it until I get and understand the mechanics of it and I succeed a couple of times in a row. I have failed COUNTLESS practice tests but never the actual test. 

One of my sports coaches, when i was 16, told me one thing I will never forget.

 

"Don't practice until you get it right, Practice until you can't get it wrong"

He also said that most discomforts can be cleared by going #2 in the bathroom (but I don't think this relates to the topic)

 

Also another point. 

Failing a Mastery test doesn't set you back at all.

 

the MRxp gets banked

[Diarmut]

On 2018-08-04 at 5:29 AM, Korinra said:

To quote:

The Sanctuary is Cephalon Simaris' Syndicate enclave in the Relays. Compared to other Syndicate enclaves, the Sanctuary houses more functions for Tenno to explore, including the Simulacrum, where players can create multiple Mimeographs of enemies; Mastery Rank test trials, where players can practice previously conquered Mastery Rank tests (or prepare for the one at their next rank); and Synthesis Research.

 

The main problem here is, if you make an error, especially on longer tests, you now have to wait 24 hours for your next legitimate tests. Yes I use the practice room to know what to expect, but that doesn't make me perfect, so that means I can make errors like everyone can. This just means, if you DO make an error, now you have to wait 24 hours for your 2nd try. If you can demonstrate how that benefits you as a player, I'm open to that explanation. If not, then it shouldn't really exist in the game.

So practice until you don't make an error, that's... what practice is for man.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

On 2018-08-04 at 2:17 AM, Korinra said:

I think there is a tremendous misstep in Warframe, something that I'm amazed hasn't changed since it's inception.

 

If you fail a test for Mastery, you are required to wait 24 hours to retake it. Why?

There's no value in making players WAIT to PLAY your game. You don't offer any means to stop the wait, you offer nothing at all but "Now you have to wait 24 hours". Why? All it does is make us NOT able to do that thing we want to do. There's LITERALLY no value in it from a game-maker perspective, from a player perspective. I'll explain:

 

Game Developer Perspective

The value of the Mastery Rank system is to slow progress down and provide more content, behind walls of progress with different things and skill demonstration. However, setting a twenty-four hour lock on the test doesn't IMPROVE this, as experience toward the next rank is still earned, experience still exists, and nothing is provided to the player other than an obligatory delay.

 

Player Perspective

The value of the Mastery Rank system adds necessity to experiencing multiple facets of the game, allowing for the player to benefit from trying things beyond the thing they first find they enjoy. This allows the player to find multiple things they enjoy, which will allow the player to build a collection of warframes, weapons, pets, and even looks to make their game more personal. However, the 24 hour wait delays the benefits of being the next rank with no OTHER punishment. Experience is still earned, even if the rank doesn't increase. This means the added benefits of passing the test are delayed, and that is the ONLY loss.

 

Proposed Solution

It should be obvious, remove the wait requirement. Simply barring the test to loading screens is punishment enough for failing a test. I've earned the rank by gaining experience, don't ALSO add a 24 hour wall with NO way around it. Just remove the wall, and the problem ceases to exist.

You should be thankful that you have the opportunity to at least practice the Mastery test. Back in my day, we didn't have practice. It was sink or swim and we embraced it.



Kids these days, git off me lawn

[raven0ak]

On 2018-08-04 at 7:51 PM, Vennia said:

What about for lower levels though? Even this idea of completing the tests before being completely level locked seems kind of flawed. I had just started and could've reached rank two a few hours into the game, but I'm locked at mastery one waiting for nearly twenty four hours just to be able to trade and access different weapons of the variety I usually choose to use. Aside from the idea of even failing, this is a serious turn off for new players. I like this game a lot, but this is such a frustrating concept that I kind of question why they do it. I get that later levels, there's no possibility of being able to level once a day, but to not even be able to trade with friends who've played or really experience a whole lot of the game for a bare minimum of a full day. Seems like a big flaw when games need to struggle to hook new players in.

if you fail master test 1 (kind of piss easy, learn to aim with your weapon), 2 again learn to aim and if you didnt bother to equip sidearm then what the heck is your excuse or 3(spamm the e) which would prove you lack understanding of line of sight and target priorities and finesse of melee you should be ashamed as you are then dead weight to teams ; test 4 failing would prove you didnt learn anything in past 3 tests, failing on 5 means you are dead weight to teams in most of missions, failing on 6 means you lack awareness of surroundings, failing on 7 means you are under-equipped for your assumed mastery level, 8 is failed by not having finesse of parkour and failing 9 means you have no place for spy missions as you are elephant in porcelain shop. 

[Vennia]

11 hours ago, raven0ak said:

if you fail master test 1 (kind of piss easy, learn to aim with your weapon), 2 again learn to aim and if you didnt bother to equip sidearm then what the heck is your excuse or 3(spamm the e) which would prove you lack understanding of line of sight and target priorities and finesse of melee you should be ashamed as you are then dead weight to teams ; test 4 failing would prove you didnt learn anything in past 3 tests, failing on 5 means you are dead weight to teams in most of missions, failing on 6 means you lack awareness of surroundings, failing on 7 means you are under-equipped for your assumed mastery level, 8 is failed by not having finesse of parkour and failing 9 means you have no place for spy missions as you are elephant in porcelain shop. 

For one, you're being crazy harsh on newer players in the idea that they're insaaaanely brain dead, but what's the actual game play value of the restriction? I get that you're saying that they teach you basic mechanics for basically the first three tests, but inevitably, they won't pass if they are incapable of it. This gives no excuse to the timers even still. It's like being level one in any type of game and being level locked at it. I'm not exactly defending restrictions on higher levels, but for mastery 1-4, I could've completed them in a day and been able to progress further for better weapons to specifically be a more viable asset to teams. I get not everyone would rush that hard, but the beginning mastery restrictions just seem too flawed and cut you out of the game. I also am not mentioning failing the tests. I still haven't failed at 5, so that isn't at all the basis of my comment. What I'm trying to say is that restrictions to take the test without failing are just kind of dumb. Failing should have some type of punishment, but I seriously think you misunderstood me

[raven0ak]

12 hours ago, Vennia said:

For one, you're being crazy harsh on newer players in the idea that they're insaaaanely brain dead, but what's the actual game play value of the restriction? I get that you're saying that they teach you basic mechanics for basically the first three tests, but inevitably, they won't pass if they are incapable of it. This gives no excuse to the timers even still. It's like being level one in any type of game and being level locked at it. I'm not exactly defending restrictions on higher levels, but for mastery 1-4, I could've completed them in a day and been able to progress further for better weapons to specifically be a more viable asset to teams. I get not everyone would rush that hard, but the beginning mastery restrictions just seem too flawed and cut you out of the game. I also am not mentioning failing the tests. I still haven't failed at 5, so that isn't at all the basis of my comment. What I'm trying to say is that restrictions to take the test without failing are just kind of dumb. Failing should have some type of punishment, but I seriously think you misunderstood me

well, if player is mastery 0 or 1, it shows they are new, if he was mastery 5 and not even understanding what button to shoot with that would not sit well for rest of group (mastery up to certain point shows that you know basics). Very first tests are really piss easy and need just entry level skills and gear to make through , if you keep failing on them regularly you are going to be dead weight to team surely. Add: There is practise mode you should familiarise yourself with early, having penalty is good insensitive to keep practising the test and generally eliminates luckshots and replaces em with skillshots. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by raven0ak

[(XBOX)ATCinfantry]

Adults don’t have much time to play because we have jobs and families. We will never be as skilled as people who don’t have those responsibilities because of time. So when I tell my adult friends who love gaming like I do that you’re punished by time then they will not even pick the game up. Adults with jobs have money. You start hitting the people who have money but not a lot of time with punishment in the form of time then they won’t play the game. Plain and simple. I know this to be fact from first hand experience. 

[Omega-Shadowblade]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ATCinfantry said:

Adults don’t have much time to play because we have jobs and families. We will never be as skilled as people who don’t have those responsibilities because of time. So when I tell my adult friends who love gaming like I do that you’re punished by time then they will not even pick the game up. Adults with jobs have money. You start hitting the people who have money but not a lot of time with punishment in the form of time then they won’t play the game. Plain and simple. I know this to be fact from first hand experience. 

You may not have time, I get that, but are you not at least learning from your failures? If you aren't, doesn't matter how much time you have. 

[(XBOX)ATCinfantry]

10 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

You may not have time, I get that, but are you not at least learning from your failures? If you aren't, doesn't matter how much time you have. 

Multiple times around this forum you can find examples of the game crashing or glitching during MR tests. This costs people 24hrs before they can access the next tier weapons. How do you learn from that failure? I’ll tell you how, you log off warframe, log into another game with no timegates and have fun playing and spending money on another game. 

The smarter way to keep people from blasting through MR is to allow the player to gain XP, take the test till they pass it, then add a timegate on the backside before you can run the next MR test. This will keep players happy, accomplished and playing till they can run the next MR test. The time will be accepted just as the XP requirement is. 

You start punishing adults with timegates and they’ll put the game down. We love games but have limited time so we will spend time where it’s rewarding. 

I have friends that will not pick this game up because of the timegate MR rank punishment. They’ll spend $60 on a AAA game to be able to complete the game at their leisure. Sure it’s their choice and we all know warframe is awesome and blows some AAA games out of the water but the fact remains. 

Timegates are acceptable for special weapons and armor that aren’t necessary to progress through the game. 

People will find a way to blow through content. The answer is not to punish those who don’t. 

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Just now, (XB1)ATCinfantry said:

Multiple times around this forum you can find examples of the game crashing or glitching during MR tests. This costs people 24hrs before they can access the next tier weapons. How do you learn from that failure? I’ll tell you how, you log off warframe, log into another game with no timegates and have fun playing and spending money on another game. 

The smarter way to keep people from blasting through MR is to allow the player to gain XP, take the test till they pass it, then add a timegate on the backside before you can run the next MR test. This will keep players happy, accomplished and playing till they can run the next MR test. The time will be accepted just as the XP requirement is. 

You start punishing adults with timegates and they’ll put the game down. We love games but have limited time so we will spend time where it’s rewarding. 

I have friends that will not pick this game up because of the timegate MR rank punishment. They’ll spend $60 on a AAA game to be able to complete the game at their leisure. Sure it’s their choice and we all know warframe is awesome and blows some AAA games out of the water but the fact remains. 

Timegates are acceptable for special weapons and armor that aren’t necessary to progress through the game. 

People will find a way to blow through content. The answer is not to punish those who don’t. 

I notice you avoided answering my question. Sorry this seems to be such a sore issue for you.

[(XBOX)ATCinfantry]

Just now, Omega-Shadowblade said:

I notice you avoided answering my question. Sorry this seems to be such a sore issue for you.

I have passed the MR tests I need to to get the weapons I want. So yes I did learn from my failures. In no way did memorizing how to pass mastery rank tests make me better at the game. I still play it the same way as I did before the tests. I just get to do it with higher tier weapons.  

The 24 hour issue is a sore issue for a lot of people. Have a look around the forums and you’ll see. 

Dont be upset because I made good sense. I don’t have to argue your point to get mine across. 

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Just now, (XB1)ATCinfantry said:

I have passed the MR tests I need to to get the weapons I want. So yes I did learn from my failures. In no way did memorizing how to pass mastery rank tests make me better at the game. I still play it the same way as I did before the tests. I just get to do it with higher tier weapons.  

The 24 hour issue is a sore issue for a lot of people. Have a look around the forums and you’ll see. 

Dont be upset because I made good sense. I don’t have to argue your point to get mine across. 

I'm upset that you blew up at me over a simple question. Was the wall of text really necessary when you could have done this? Really, chill.

[(XBOX)ATCinfantry]

Just now, Omega-Shadowblade said:

I'm upset that you blew up at me over a simple question. Was the wall of text really necessary when you could have done this? Really, chill.

I didn’t blow up at you LOL. I was explaining what my point was. The wall of text was necessary to fully explain my issue, my point and my solution to the problem. 

I think you’re the one that needs to chill. I’m sorry a solid point made you defensive. No need. It’s just a game and this is the internet. 

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Just now, (XB1)ATCinfantry said:

I didn’t blow up at you LOL. I was explaining what my point was. The wall of text was necessary to fully explain my issue, my point and my solution to the problem. 

I think you’re the one that needs to chill. I’m sorry a solid point made you defensive. No need. It’s just a game and this is the internet. 

It was not necessary, you've already explained your point elsewhere. And yes this is a game. A free one at that. I've been chill this entire conversation. Honestly I've dealt with a lot more toxic posters, but  I at least like to keep things on track to the point stated.

If you want some advice for the test though: Go slow, you have no timer, Use chanelling, It removes bodies from play so patrols don't become alerted to them, used ranged melee like the glaive or gunblade/banshee combo. Just watch where you throw. Use Enemy radar to see where enemies are facing.

[(XBOX)ATCinfantry]

4 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

It was not necessary, you've already explained your point elsewhere. And yes this is a game. A free one at that. I've been chill this entire conversation. Honestly I've dealt with a lot more toxic posters, but  I at least like to keep things on track to the point stated.

If you want some advice for the test though: Go slow, you have no timer, Use chanelling, It removes bodies from play so patrols don't become alerted to them, used ranged melee like the glaive or gunblade/banshee combo. Just watch where you throw. Use Enemy radar to see where enemies are facing.

I was stating an opinion about the topic at hand so yes it was necessary. It is not necessary for you to read it or agree with it. That’s the glorious part of free speech and opinions. 

The game being free has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand so I’m not sure why you brought that up. 

You haven’t been chill because you just admitted that I upset you by posting my personal opinion. 

In no way shape or form have I been toxic. This is a forum designed for people to post their questions, answers and opinions. Because you don’t agree with them doesn’t make them toxic. Disagreement isn’t toxicity. I’m here trying to make the game better and since I am a customer and they created this forum, I intend to use it. 

I didn’t get off topic until you got upset at my opinion which had nothing to do with the original post or what I stated. 

 

Thank you for the advice. I have already passed the test though. Iflynn on YouTube showed me how to do it. I do appreciate your time though. 

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Just now, (XB1)ATCinfantry said:

I was stating an opinion about the topic at hand so yes it was necessary. It is not necessary for you to read it or agree with it. That’s the glorious part of free speech and opinions. 

The game being free has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand so I’m not sure why you brought that up. 

You haven’t been chill because you just admitted that I upset you by posting my personal opinion. 

In no way shape or form have I been toxic. This is a forum designed for people to post their questions, answers and opinions. Because you don’t agree with them doesn’t make them toxic. Disagreement isn’t toxicity. I’m here trying to make the game better and since I am a customer and they created this forum, I intend to use it. 

I didn’t get off topic until you got upset at my opinion which had nothing to do with the original post or what I stated. 

 

Thank you for the advice. I have already passed the test though. Iflynn on YouTube showed me how to do it. I do appreciate your time though. 

Chill. I didn't call you toxic, I said i've dealt with players who are more toxic. I'd say you're heated, but you are at least trying to be level headed. I have been chill, doesn't mean I also can't be upset, I'm just not letting it get in the way of trying to have a discussion.

The game being free actually does have a point to it that i've learned over past discussions with other people. It has to do with how they design the game, and expectations from it. I won't go into it here though, doesn't really have much sway to this particular discussion.

My point about the second wall of text not being necessary was due to the fact you really did already state everything in it. I had already read it the first time. I just thought i'd make a comment on something I'd notice. Learning from failure is quite a common idea in gaming.

Congrats on the victory. Feel free to pass tips on to the next people.

[(XBOX)ATCinfantry]

1 minute ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

Chill. I didn't call you toxic, I said i've dealt with players who are more toxic. I'd say you're heated, but you are at least trying to be level headed. I have been chill, doesn't mean I also can't be upset, I'm just not letting it get in the way of trying to have a discussion.

The game being free actually does have a point to it that i've learned over past discussions with other people. It has to do with how they design the game, and expectations from it. I won't go into it here though, doesn't really have much sway to this particular discussion.

My point about the second wall of text not being necessary was due to the fact you really did already state everything in it. I had already read it the first time. I just thought i'd make a comment on something I'd notice. Learning from failure is quite a common idea in gaming.

Congrats on the victory. Feel free to pass tips on to the next people.

When you say “more toxic” that implies that I am some level of toxic. You can say I’m heated but that doesn’t make it true. Lol. I’ve never been chill and upset at the same time. Usually it’s one or the other. That’s a new concept to me. 

Anyway, Ive stated my point and I stand by it. If it upsets you then that’s fine. I can’t do anything about that and I won’t change my stance. The 24hr punishment will only hurt the game. Period. 

[Omega-Shadowblade]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)ATCinfantry said:

When you say “more toxic” that implies that I am some level of toxic. You can say I’m heated but that doesn’t make it true. Lol. I’ve never been chill and upset at the same time. Usually it’s one or the other. That’s a new concept to me. 

Anyway, Ive stated my point and I stand by it. If it upsets you then that’s fine. I can’t do anything about that and I won’t change my stance. The 24hr punishment will only hurt the game. Period. 

any number greater than 0 is considered more. Sorry that was miscommunication. Didn't mean anything by it.

I've had a great deal of experience outside of stuff like forums that required me to be chill while also upset. This topic wasn't even 10% as bad though. More like a "meh he didn't need to say that much to the point" type of upset.

I have not stated any disagreement with your point. I personally haven't really been hurt by the penalty as I've only had it happen a couple times ever, but it certainly wouldn't be bad overall to find a compromise between needing to keep players from simply glossing over what's being emphasized in the test (you can actually learn some tips from the tests if you pay attention. This stealth test is great for practicing for stealth chains for example), and making it so the player isn't put off by a strict penalty.

[Jax_Cavalera]

When I do a new mastery test I run the practice until I can back to back complete it with plenty or room to account some margin of error.Originally we had no practice room... all you had was youtube preview and ... the test. Removing the 24hr wait further devalues a MR than the practice mode already has done. I appreciate prac mode btw even though it did make our MR significantly less valuable.

In all reality @Korinra makes a valid point.. DE have already devalued the prestige accompanying a MR when they introduced prac tests. At this point they may as well scrap MR prac tests and cut to the chase allowing immediate retakes, at least it would help onboarding friends starting out to get trade unlocked etc sooner.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Jax_Cavalera
Reconsidered overall opinion on topic

[(XBOX)ATCinfantry]

4 hours ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

When I do a new mastery test I run the practice until I can back to back complete it with plenty or room to account some margin of error.Originally we had no practice room... all you had was youtube preview and ... the test. Removing the 24hr wait further devalues a MR than the practice mode already has done. I appreciate prac mode btw even though it did make our MR significantly less valuable.

In all reality @Korinra makes a valid point.. DE have already devalued the prestige accompanying a MR when they introduced prac tests. At this point they may as well scrap MR prac tests and cut to the chase allowing immediate retakes, at least it would help onboarding friends starting out to get trade unlocked etc sooner.

I agree with this whole heartedly. I wonder if they introduced the practice tests because they know the 24hr timegate is ridiculous? 

I think people put too much thought into “learning from the test” when the reality is that someone will just memorize the test, pass it and then go back to using they same playstyle they were before. 

 

I agree with the MR test but put the timegate on the back side to throttle progression and then everyone is happy. 

[Vennia]

On 2018-08-12 at 8:55 AM, raven0ak said:

well, if player is mastery 0 or 1, it shows they are new, if he was mastery 5 and not even understanding what button to shoot with that would not sit well for rest of group (mastery up to certain point shows that you know basics). Very first tests are really piss easy and need just entry level skills and gear to make through , if you keep failing on them regularly you are going to be dead weight to team surely. Add: There is practise mode you should familiarise yourself with early, having penalty is good insensitive to keep practising the test and generally eliminates luckshots and replaces em with skillshots. 

Again, I'm really not talking about failing them. I'm trying to bring up the restrictions to new players who are virtually locked out of the game by the 24 hour restriction to take the test, even without failing.