Hema Research...from a tiny Ghost Clan's POV

[Wolfpack75]

Today I took My Nekros prime with both resource boosters active and went to the Orokin Derelict Defense. I spent 15 rounds there before I had to stop (real life intruded) and received a grand total of 42 Mutagen Samples. At that rate, if my clan mates (2 other players) were to join me, we'd be able to gather all the Samples we needed in ~60 trips to the Derelict (assuming they had no doublers and we only stayed 15 rounds each time). Even if we had a fast Nova, my nekros, and a Mesa for DPS it would take many hours if not days to get the Mutagen Samples needed for the Hema. 

A little background: I run a "micro" ghost clan of 4 people (we were the Wesley Crushers, are now the Thorsday Night Gamers, and may change our name again soon), we have 3 active players and one inactive (the inactive is the son of one of our players). We are IRL friends who have been gaming together for 20 years and have been playing Warframe for 3 years now. Our ghost clan is rank 9, we need 30K research to reach tier 10. I know that will take awhile but we are working on it and, even though we are a tiny ghost clan, we've been doing pretty good up until we got to Hema Research. At first we didn't believe that Mutagen Samples were going to be so difficult to collect if they asked for 5K. The naivete was real, LOL. I think the requirements defeated us a bit. So we decided not to focus on it and just gather Samples as we played. All told we haven't cracked 1K. 

I would argue that when the Hema requirements were set that the weapon was rather powerful, however I don't believe it is now. With the newer weapons that have been introduced I never see a Hema being used (maybe because not many have built one but I'm sure it's also because the Hema isn't powerful). With that lack of power in mind it would be nice if DE would revisit these requirements. 

I know a lot of people have posted about this, however the squeaky wheel gets the grease so I want to keep bringing this topic up. Maybe one day our pestering will pay off. 

Edited to Add: I just played 15 minutes of Orokin Derelict Survival and received 28 Mutagen Samples. So Defense was better for me.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Wolfpack75
Added Results of Survival

[Kloaked]

YEP. Hema is not as good as the grind would imply. Was pretty disappointed when we finally got it because that took forever to grind for.

[(PSN)the-creeperman]

To avoid grind burnout, our small clan has given up on Hema research altogether. It's a crappy weapon and absolutely not worth the effort required.

[ReinAxefury]

8 minutes ago, Wolfpack75 said:

I would argue that when the Hema requirements were set that the weapon was rather powerful

No, it was a resource sink for people who had thousands of those, and as a Clan leader of a Small ghost clan, we just went and did a few survivals at the derelict from time to time and got everything we needed at some point, the problem with people is taking everything as a chore, if instead you just play the game at some point you'll get enough materials to research it. Even now i have more than half of the mats to research it again, and i don't even play at the derelict that much.

[Katinka]

42 Mutagen samples in 15 rounds with both boosters?  So that means there was only 21 actual drops and would have been 10-11 without the chance booster?  More and more I'm convinced that Nekros in Endless missions is not the most effective way to get Mutagen Samples.  I find get about a dozen doing non-endless missions such as Maroo's Ayatan run (when it's in a Derelict) or Exterminate/Capture if I actually bother to open every container and locker (without boosters or Nekros or Master Thief).  It'll make the mission take longer than a usual Capture would but it's still not 15 rounds long and it's not sitting in one spot the whole time.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

3, 3 days of poorly coordinated farming from my ghost clan of 4 sorta active players.

Dont forget more enemies spawn with more players. We ran 2 Nekros a Hydroid and last day a Excalibur, 2 of us had Smeeta Kavats, I had drop chance booster & double loot, 380-450 for myself was average at wave 30, they had about 250.

[Guest]

Yep, Hema is pretty lackluster, and according to wiki, I think it was always like that.

If you really want to finish Hema real fast, the drop chance booster is the way to go. The 2x drop booster also helps, but the drop chance booster helps a lot more because it stacks with other people's drop chance booster as well. You can finish  the research in a day with a full squad + boosters. I did it in two days solo on Derelict Survival.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Guest

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

2 minutes ago, Katinka said:

42 Mutagen samples in 15 rounds with both boosters?  So that means there was only 21 actual drops and would have been 10-11 without the chance booster?  More and more I'm convinced that Nekros in Endless missions is not the most effective way to get Mutagen Samples.  I find get about a dozen doing non-endless missions such as Maroo's Ayatan run (when it's in a Derelict) or Exterminate/Capture if I actually bother to open every container and locker (without boosters or Nekros or Master Thief).  It'll make the mission take longer than a usual Capture would but it's still not 15 rounds long and it's not sitting in one spot the whole time.

Yea, I'm pretty sure lootdroid's 100% chance is more effective then 2-3 50% chances from Nekros. I almost always get more endo at Hydron with Hydroid.

Pro tip, it seems shadows drop loot, let them die.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

Yea, I'm pretty sure lootdroid's 100% chance is more effective then 2-3 50% chances from Nekros. I almost always get more endo at Hydron with Hydroid.

It really doesn't. I tested it... It might have a better start than Nekros, but once Ancient Healers start popping up, Hydroid loose a lot of efficiency when it comes Kills per sec, i.e. extra drops per sec. Plus, Nekros can just use slash weapons to have a higher probability from a single enemy.

 

IIRC, my Hydroid was with 120~ samples at 30min of ODS, while Nekros was at 170+ samples at 30min as well. Both solo with boosters.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Katinka said:

- snip -

From what I've noticed, containers have a very decent chance of dropping M. Samples, much higher than enemies.

[Wolfpack75]

36 minutes ago, Katinka said:

42 Mutagen samples in 15 rounds with both boosters?  So that means there was only 21 actual drops and would have been 10-11 without the chance booster?  More and more I'm convinced that Nekros in Endless missions is not the most effective way to get Mutagen Samples.  I find get about a dozen doing non-endless missions such as Maroo's Ayatan run (when it's in a Derelict) or Exterminate/Capture if I actually bother to open every container and locker (without boosters or Nekros or Master Thief).  It'll make the mission take longer than a usual Capture would but it's still not 15 rounds long and it's not sitting in one spot the whole time.

Yeah, I was really expecting a lot more than that. I didn't expect a deluge or anything but I figured solo with both resource boosters I would at least be able to kickstart the research with ~100 of them. Instead I am wondering if we just leave it unfinished. At this point I believe Hema Research and any dependent research is the only thing we haven't finished (besides colors and a solar rail). 

I may just have to try doing other mission types solo and see what I get for totals.

If it is as lackluster a weapon as I think (and others have corroborated) then the research requirements are ridiculous. Perhaps DE made it to be a resource sink but at this point it should be reevaluated.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Wolfpack75

[(PSN)the-creeperman]

I'm calling b/s on some of these numbers here. I've done full teams with both Nekros and Hydroids AND boosters and we've never seen numbers like that (best team total after 30min survival was just over 200..again, team TOTAL). And 5000 mutagen samples from a solo 2 day run?.. yeah, ok..

 

Either RNG absolutely positively worships you or you're full of it. Screenshots/video or it didn't happen..

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)the-creeperman said:

Either RNG absolutely positively worships you or you're full of it. Screenshots/video or it didn't happen..

I'm fairly confident RNG is by my side. Smeeta's charm made a huge difference as well.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

It makes it hard for small clans to get started on recruiting...do you have all research?....Sorta...oh, sorry...but BYE....

[(PSN)Shirasaya-X]

Nekros + rss double drop and rss chance. Went for a solo 40 mins survival and got 118-126 mutagen samples. My clan is also a 4 man crew. I run about 6-7 40 minutes derelict survival a day.