Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Zamary]

Her energy is terrible and building her is impossible because you need every stat now. This rework is $&*&*#(%& and should be reverted.

[Arachne.]

give us the health back

[BAD9eR]

Because it lacks player interactivity for an extended period of time while a cutscene plays the game for you. The devs are changing it for the same reason they changed Peacemaker. 

ie: To stop effecient farming and increase grind .... so people buy more stuff with plat , increasing DE sales fo plat , its obvious when you look at it ....

 goodbye saryn  will miss you. R.I.P 

[Damagedice]

But whats the benefit from having to go around and half lives when i can just tonkor their face and atomos the halls clean instead of burning some precious energy to do what could be done in seconds?

Then what's the point of any warframe at all other than sheer utility? So far, for you people, it has been to nuke, that's about it. Btw you could just use the atomos on the spores enemies. Does your job 2x quicker for 25 energy. Sooo bad.

[Zamary]

God i'm so pissed they ruined one of my fav frames. Makes me not even wanna play.

[KonRon]

synergy is great to keep in mind to rework frames but make the players use the four powers in order to get one result is not a good way to do the things, the spores and molt combo is fine, miasma should work fine with only one status instead of needing both, so the players can CHOOSE that way if play using toxic lash with melee or use a gun and pop the spores.

 

first I need to say that miasma at the beginning was a S#&$ty skill and only worked properly when corrupted mods were introduced, making it able to deal more damage in almost no time with negative duration, which it wasn't designed to work as that but reworks wasn't on the table back then and this was the only way for people to use saryn, moded with duration to benefit all their powers made no advantage at all with her. the devs now try to make it work as intended since a while back.

 

now instead of spam 4 for 25 energy we need to use 2+1+3 +4 to get supposedly the same effect and while it takes more energy + more time to properly spread the spores and apply viral/toxin procs to get that supposed +100% for each proc type damage on the miasma... which is not working, viral plus double damage should make the miasma deal considerable damage compared to it without the proc, the reason is, viral reduces the HP of the enemy to 50% that plus 200% extra damage of the miasma should make a big difference which is not there, I have been testing builds and nothing seems to get half effect of the pre rework saryn.

 

use a ignis with viral plus other status to apply the proc faster or spread the spores better and still miasma don't kill.

Edited November 5, 2015 by KonRon

[(XBOX)SixPathsOfHate]

Then what's the point of any warframe at all other than sheer utility? So far, for you people, it has been to nuke, that's about it. Btw you could just use the atomos on the spores enemies. Does your job 2x quicker for 25 energy. Sooo bad.

I dont mind not having 4 to clear rooms, hell, I wanted to play with venom at one point but couldnt find a reason to use it over miasma so I didnt, but what we have now is forced synergy, we need to do all this work to get a miasma that doesnt do more than it did originally and for you, may find that fun but for me and alot of others all we see is press 123 then 4 and hopefully everything is dead. Also, I have tried the venom atomos combo, it doesnt seem to pop the spores eveytime.

[Zamary]

When can we expect the Nova nerf.....sorry i mean rework, when you make Molecular Prime based off of range, power doesn't effect the slow and it only does 25% of the damage unless you hit the enemy with a Null Star first.

[GallyYum]

Skin issues:

- Shoulder Flower should be an attachment since it covers clan symbols and such.

- Shoulder attachments in general aren't position well on the skin, they are really low on the arms and tend to float off the skin.

- The energy color makes a translucent glow across the entire frame, quite annoying for those who like to have contrast on their frame colors and have the energy color be mostly independent from the frame colors.

- Dual Zoren skin should be extended to all dual swords and duel daggers.  No body uses Dual Zoren after they get their MR off it.

 

Warframe tweak suggestions:

- Miasma taken from 100 energy to 75 energy, since spore is necessary to make it decent and costs 25 base itself.

- Molt clones should have a 3 seconds of invincibility so that spore and miasma can combo with it before it dies, primarily concerned with it being instantly shredded by high level enemies.

- I feel Toxic Slash should have ranged damage reduction effect that scales inverse to the damage increase. The higher power strength then the less damage reduction and a lower value then gives more damage reduction. Would add some scaling survivability for melee builds in addition to a few different ways to play it.

- the base duration on Miasma could use a very slight increase.

- slight sprint speed increase plz

Edited November 6, 2015 by Turboski

[DSMatticus]

Also, New Saryn does scale.  Viral scales right alongside the enemy.  Banshee is a damage multiplier but it's dependent on your DPS, as is Nova.  If your damage has fallen off significantly enough Banshee/Nova won't improve it significantly.  Viral just flat cuts enemy HP in half.

You fundamentally do not understand math.

Halving enemy hitpoints is identical to doubling damage.

If you do 10 damage and the enemy has 100 hitpoints, it will take you 10 attacks to kill them.

If you do 20 damage and the enemy has 100 hitpoints, it will take you 5 attacks to kill them.

If you do 10 damage and the enemy has 50 hitpoints, it will take you 5 attacks to kill them.

If a 100% increase in damage isn't good enough, then a 50% reduction in enemy hitpoints is exactly as not good enough. Because it's the exact. Same. Thing! Viral does not scale better than molecular prime, because both do exactly the same thing, except molecular prime also slows the enemy and is all around easier to apply to large groups of enemies at once.

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

Yes.You may not like things at first,but you will adapt to it later on.

[Pro3Display]

 

• • Enemies hit by Miasma when under the effects of Miasma will have the duration timer reset.

miasma from different saryns do not stack now i guess (not sure it ever did but with low duration that at least wasn't big of a problem)

[Buddhakingpen]

 In theory it all sounds cool and such, but at the end of the day, I'm still just using venom to spread viral procs, and using miasma to stun in high level content, and i still dont use contagion (or w/e its called now). Playstyle is exactly the same, just with LESS effective hp and a much easier to proc viral status. 

 

Honestly, i think if all they did was make Venom (or spore, w/e the f its called) have the consistency in its viral proc like it has now, Saryn would have been much better off. The miasma "nerf" I dont really care about. You can have that one DE i only use it for a stun anyway.

 

Melee saryn will not become a thing (granted, build diversity is awesome, and i appreciate that consideration) when loki, ashe, valkyr and excalibur still exist. Not unless they add cc to the melee buff as well somehow. Like say the poison that she puts in her blade causes nerve damage and makes enemies move slower for 4 seconds or SOMETHING. Maybe that should be the new augment, since contagions old augment is trash and is basically achieved when comboed with venom now anyway.

 

The venom buff was awesome. The molt+venom buff really helps with the infested but I'd much rather have my HP back than get the rest of the changes that were made.

 

There will be no secret op build. Her functionality is highly the same, This change just nerfed her stats in compensation for nothing but build diversity and a (substantial) venom buff. 

 

I thought DE had the remake thing all figured out. They did so well on frost and excalibur. Oh well. 2/3 aint bad. 

[slach32]

meg\misa\sarina R.I.P\DE .I.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

In her current form, she should have the lowest shields, medium to high health, and Armor on par with Valkyr.

[Cpt.Zura]

-snip-

 

 

Very constructive and informative.

 

I think if they want to turn her Miasma into CC you need to adjust the stun that it gives. 

A 2 second stun is useless. Let them be stunned for the duration of the ability.

 

Also can Molt have the 4 second invincibility like frost's Snowglobe so that it scales better in late-game?

It still has the same problem as before that it dies too quickly against high-level enemies.

 

Also 20 more armor is insignificant. We don't have enough mods slots to try and fit Steel Fiber in there because of the need to mod her for duration, strength, range and efficiency...  

Edited November 5, 2015 by Susanooh

[Shinfong]

next up is Trins EV - Tick per sec just like saryns

 

now that will really F*ck up "Press 4" Spamming

[fatpig84]

As for people defending Spore, trust me it ain't worth it for most content.

 

Spore guarantees viral, but it doesn't spread unless you hit the spore.

That is a huge issue.

 

In most missions, your team mates would have effectively killed the target before you can spread or even see the benefit of Spores.

That leaves her without her most powerful utility for a good portion of the fight.

 

In a 4x CP team, you don't even need viral proc until at least level 150 enemies. 

Since most 4x CP setups tends to be viral heat or viral slash, the enemies will die incredibly quickly before the viral proc proves it's worth.

Why would I need to worry about a viral proc when most enemies won't even hit 100k raw Hp even during 1 hour survivals ?

 

Here is the thing, other frames debuff/buff abilities like Molecular Prime, Sonar , Eclipse etc are all functional from the start.

Spore spam is only useful when things are starting to get really tough to kill but would you give up another "top tier" frame just for the Spore effect ?

I argue no. Spore needs to be cheaper, spore needs to spread on target's death, spore needs a small CC so Saryn can get the top spot she deserves. Right now she only has utility and toughness. Her CC is non existent while her damage is too reliant on all her abilities.

 

Yes these abilites work well in a vacuum, but in a game with 4 different people, you will be sorely left unsatisfied.

[Doombrigade]

My only gripe with saryn at this point is that she doesn't do well when playing with others...It's happened before the rework and now after the rework. I put spore on an enemy and before I can even pop em to effect enemies around, someone up and kills that target and the spores don't spread. Maybe this a bug, but it's annoying as all frick.

 

Like, she is great when I can actually get her to work. Spore enemy, toxic lash and hit them, everyone around is affected by toxin and viral, UNLEASH MIASMA! Everything melts. It's why I still think Toxic Lash should affect all weapons, both yours and your team mates. This way you can do Spore, Toxic Lash, You and team mates shoot enemies and it just spreads among them like wild fire~ Then you Miasma and everything melts.

 

TL;DR, Team mates killing enemies before spore can spread is annoying, fix by making toxic lash a team buff to tall weapons.

I'm not sure its a bug exactly, but old Venom was plagued with the same issue. It seems from my experience anyway, that there is a significant delay from when the power has finished casting and the spores actually appear and by that time the enemy is dead and the spores never have a chance to spread. 

 

The window between casting Spore and having the spores appear on the enemy needs to be much much quicker. 

 

I get the feeling that this rework wasn't tested much in a team environment or even outside of the simulacrum solo.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Doombrigade

[vashyoung]

inb4 lock. Everytime Change comes that makes things more challenging, there's one of you. Garbage in, garbage out.

i dont think the problem lies on how the difficult saryn can be played right now, its more on the transition to the later part of the game, saryn right now require a little bit of skills which is fun... but scaling it on a higher level, some frames will perform better than what she have now

Edited November 5, 2015 by vashyoung

[VDeorsum]

Another frame for the Mastery Fodder bin. 

 

The rework is rubbish. Miasma does not deal nearly enough damage. At 100% Duration and 150% power strength enemies on Draco lose possibly half of their health bar. If that. Occasionally, if I managed to first hit them with spores, they lose perhaps 2/3 to 3/4 instead. So Miasma is now a damage dealing ability that doesnt, nonetheless requiring additional energy to charge its insufficient damage first. For roughly 50 Energy at max Efficiency (which also requires that I sacrifice Duration and/or compensate) I can do perhaps as much damage as Frost's Avalanche, without any of the peripheral benefits thereof.

 

Conclusion:

 

Why would anyone use this frame? Ever?

 

-Forced "Synergy" is a drawback. In theory it probably sounded good. In practice it means more energy for less effect. 

 

-Terrible crowd control: Sure Miasma also staggers (for maybe one second) but so does Chaos (for longer) and that nets you AND the team half a minute of virtual immunity per cast. With no falloff.

 

-Terrible damage. Seriously, I would use Equinox for AoE damage over Saryn now. I'd use Frost. At least he can defend himself - and you dont have spend additional energy to charge Avalanche first. At this point I would use a Duration Rhino over Saryn, once his Iron Skin rework hits.

 

-Terrible Survivability: Survivability means different things, to different frames. Loki has AMAZING survivability, because he is often not seen for minutes at a time. Or even whole missions. And when he is, he distracts and robs enemies of their primary weapons. Nyx has amazing Survivability because, Chaos and Absorb. Trinity, for obvious reasons, and Valkyr the same.

 

Saryn has ZERO survivability. Her entire package is predicated on dealing damage as a means to control the battle. Sure she can distract with her Molt, albeit unreliably, at best. But her entire package depends on killing enemies quickly.

 

Except...now she cant do that. Miasma deals terrible damage, and it takes too long to deal that damage. And using additional abilities or forced weapon builds, just to charge an Ultimate...let me ask you WHY I would mod Vaykor Hek for viral to charge Miasma, when modding it with Corrosive just KILLS ALL THE THINGS without Miasma. 

 

 

One last note: Not only is the overhaul a total failure - seriously, just roll her back for now and start over - but 200 Plat for the skin is just too much. Would love to have that skin - well, if I had a useful frame to use it on - but not at that price.

 

And those new sound effects are...the originals were never good, not for Miasma, but the new ones are just awful. High pitched and obnoxious, to be honest.

[Cerenax]

She is useless as she is. There are a lot of warframes that can instantly deal more dmg than Saryn will deal over time with her newly nerfed miasma. A DOT ability should in total deal far more dmg than the average instant effect ability and miasma now just doesn't deal even 5% of the dmg what an ability like that should deal. My suggestion is to make miasma dmg increment exponentially per tick (1st tick deals 1x dmg, 2nd deals 2x, 3rd deals 4x, 4th deals 8x, and so on...) and the base duration should be extended by 2x what it currently is.

[akira_him]

I'm not sure its a bug exactly, but old Venom was plagued with the same issue. It seems from my experience anyway, that there is a significant delay from when the power has finished casting and the spores actually appear and by that time the enemy is dead and the spores never have a chance to spread.

The window between casting Spore and having the spores appear on the enemy needs to be much much quicker.

I get the feeling that this rework wasn't tested much in a team environment our even outside of the simulacrum solo.

they wasn't test it at all, see their reaction in devstream?

[BAD9eR]

yeps and then the grind will become so painfull that buying stuff from the market will become the norm thus increasing plat sales , all nerfs working as intended , farming gets fuc^%d again . cheers DE .... for nothing 

[TropicalPsychosis]

For those of you moaning about the rework that makes her complex, new, and more engaging to play... You should really try the game out, it's cool if you play it. instead of standing there, tapping 4, doing less work than a freeze-dried potato. If you HONESTLY have trouble using her now, when she has had her armor, max energy, and abilities in general, buffed to all hell, then this might help you develop a degree of skill, force you out of your comfort zone, and give you the push you need to stop being a hallway hero and PLAY THE GAME. Just sitting there spamming your 4 while the rest of the squad is doing doing stuff was obnoxious at the least. I look forward to seeing how many truly skilled players are forced to discover their potential after this skill void is removed, and how many weak willed button pressing machines are forced out of my squads.