BraveDude8 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) So, to get some background information. As it is, it simply isn't worth using the Vandal over the regular Braton. The increase in accuracy isn't worth a 20% drop in fire rate and in turn DPS. And no, I'm not suggesting the Vandal be reverted to its original stats. For the newer players, it used to be directly superior. I propose making their stats the same. I want to use my Vandal, and I'm going to use my Vandal. But it would be nice if I didn't always have that niggling feeling of inefficiency. EDIT: Brandal - 188 DPS? Braton - 226 DPS? I'm not sure if that's accurate, but I'm assuming that the fire rate is per second. Percentage wise - 226/188 = 1.20212. Descriptions - And the MK1, because why not. EDIT: Old stats, for those wondering. No, I do not want that back. Far too overpowered. Edited June 30, 2013 by BraveDude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldgrep Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Calm down, and be glad you have a BV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldgrep Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 No gun is inferior, your mods just are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enot83 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 There has been a rather lengthy discussion regarding this born out of the introduction of forma and difference between the two. I don't believe in that thread it has gone the direction of just making them identical other than skin/noise though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveDude8 Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 No gun is inferior, your mods just are It has a direct fire rate drop, with a small boost in accuracy being the supposed payoff. It seems pretty inferior to me. I'm not saying it's bad, it's just not as good as the standard Braton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korevas Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Yup, everybody should be free to chose what they use. Oh wait, I misread, *you* should be free to chose what you use. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attenburo Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Give it 1 or 2 more damage per bullet, including crit rate and fire rate that should even them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amistyrja Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Vandal already has better crit and accuracy doesn't it? Just give it a small boost in damage so the description makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Sensei-- Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 BV has the highest crit chance as a rifle barring sniper rifles. Also V polarity slots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatouJin Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 it's not as big a deal anymore with the added modding and polarizing options but this is basically what happens when enough people won't stop whining about not getting the vandal and the DE's for some reason nerfing it and buffing the regular braton over it. suppose i should just be glad they at least left my lato vandal alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphascrub Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 BV has the highest crit chance as a rifle barring sniper rifles. Also V polarity slots Very important points. The high crit chance and the extra accuracy means the vandal is truly a head shot hunting crit machine when modded properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amistyrja Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 it's not as big a deal anymore with the added modding and polarizing options but this is basically what happens when enough people won't stop whining about not getting the vandal and the DE's for some reason nerfing it and buffing the regular braton over it. suppose i should just be glad they at least left my lato vandal alone. Lato Prime XD But really though where's the Braton Vandal's 'higher damage values'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namacyst Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) Very important points. The high crit chance and the extra accuracy means the vandal is truly a head shot hunting crit machine when modded properly. You wont feel the extra 2.5% crit chance when you compare both weapons and crit is never a reliable damage source. Same goes for accuracy.. 28.6 compared to 33.3 is not noticable at all. Both weapons perform the same when you only take those values. To reflect the Vandal flavor text ("A special version of the standard BRATON rifle with a slower fire rate but offering higher accuracy and damage values. ...") of the Braton Vandal it should have atleast 5 points more base damage and ~50 accuracy to be different. To buff Braton's base damage to that of the Brandal back in the day was the wrong approach and a mistake. DE shouldve picked a different approach of making Braton more comparable to the Brandal. Currently because of the higher fire rate Braton out-dps the Braton Vandal by alot. From the other thread: braton dps = 20 * 11.3 = 226 Vandal DPS = 20 * 9.3 = 186 You should look here: https://forums.warfr...al/#entry607478 My standpoint is that Vandal is a trait of some kind stating that Vandal weapons have higher base damage, higher accuracy and lower fire rate but currently the Braton has the same damage as the Brandal, no lower fire rate downside and virtually the same accuracy which makes the normal Braton the better weapon... and now after the implementaion of Forma even the extra polarity slot is not giving any benefit. On the long run Braton Vandal is worse. Braton Vandal deserves a base damage buff and accuracy increase to stay true to it's flavor text. Edited June 5, 2013 by Namacyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambarpowder Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Any argument for or against the Braton Vandal does not change the fact that its description is blatantly wrong. Either the weapon or the description must change to suit the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namacyst Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) Any argument for or against the Braton Vandal does not change the fact that its description is blatantly wrong. Either the weapon or the description must change to suit the other. Description is the same for all Vandals and Lato Vandal has more base damage, more accuracy and lower fire rate than normal Lato .. as it should be with the "Vandal trait" so i guess the Braton Vandal has to get a buff or the Lato Vandal a nerf ... but a nerf would be a very very bad move from DE to be honest. To quote them from the U8 related work Thread: "DON'T NERF "X", MAKE "Y" AS GOOD AS "X": Message received and understood." Edited June 5, 2013 by Namacyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Sensei-- Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 You wont feel the extra 2.5% crit chance when you compare both weapons and crit is never a reliable damage source. Same goes for accuracy.. 28.6 compared to 33.3 is not noticable at all. Both weapons perform the same when you only take those values. To reflect the Vandal flavor text ("A special version of the standard BRATON rifle with a slower fire rate but offering higher accuracy and damage values. ...") of the Braton Vandal it should have atleast 5 points more base damage and ~50 accuracy to be different. To buff Braton's base damage to that of the Brandal back in the day was the wrong approach and a mistake. DE shouldve picked a different approach of making Braton more comparable to the Brandal. Currently because of the higher fire rate Braton out-dps the Braton Vandal by alot. From the other thread: braton dps = 20 * 11.3 = 226 Vandal DPS = 20 * 9.3 = 186 You should look here: https://forums.warfr...al/#entry607478 My standpoint is that Vandal is a trait of some kind stating that Vandal weapons have higher base damage, higher accuracy and lower fire rate but currently the Braton has the same damage as the Brandal, no lower fire rate downside and virtually the same accuracy which makes the normal Braton the better weapon... and now after the implementaion of Forma even the extra polarity slot is not giving any benefit. On the long run Braton Vandal is worse. Braton Vandal deserves a base damage buff and accuracy increase to stay true to it's flavor text. I approve of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveDude8 Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Any argument for or against the Braton Vandal does not change the fact that its description is blatantly wrong. Either the weapon or the description must change to suit the other. I agree. And I'd prefer the weapon to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namacyst Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I agree. And I'd prefer the weapon to change. That would be the reasonable course, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keltik0ne Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Hmm, reading this, I should probably start working up my Braton then. The V is far prettier though :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Braton DPS: 20*11.3*1.075 = 242.95 Brandal DPS: 20*9.4*1.150 = 202.1 Buff the damage to 23. That'll send the DPS to 232.415, making it a much closer match and making the accuracy and fire control of the Brandal more reasonable differentiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namacyst Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Braton DPS: 20*11.3*1.075 = 242.95 Brandal DPS: 20*9.4*1.150 = 202.1 Buff the damage to 23. That'll send the DPS to 232.415, making it a much closer match and making the accuracy and fire control of the Brandal more reasonable differentiations. Imho not enough because i just don't see why the normal Braton should be better than the Vandal which is a special, optimized and improved Braton. 4-5 points base damage and 15 points accuracy would reflect the flavor text and the Vandal trait. Lato Vandal has 6 more damage than the Lato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 lol looks like I messed up in my calculations of crit rates. Current Brandal DPS: 209.15 Brandal DPS with 22 damage: 230.065 Taking it up to 23 takes it to 240.5225 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namacyst Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Try 24 and/or 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 24: 250.98 25: 261.375 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namacyst Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 24 sounds good.. what about 23 with 2.5% more crit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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