Heavy Caliber, Serration And Ignis

[Nerevar22g]

Hi, I just got heavy cal, fused it to +90% and dropped it in my Ignis. and didnt notice any change, although  arsenal UI showed huge increase in damage. Then I removed all mods from ignis and tried it, it did 33 damage per tick to infested. Added Heavy cal, Arsenal showed 190 damage as it should be, tested in game - 33 damage per tick.... Is this broken or am I missing something?
 

Edit - to add my later test results - neither Heavy cal or Serration do not increase Ignis damage, I hope DE sees this and checks it out

Edited November 25, 2013 by Nerevar22g

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Interesting. I just put it on and assumed it was working.

[Karzak]

hmmm I also assumed it worked...

Can anyone else test this?

[Zareek]

Maybe it's because the enemies dies too fast? if less damage is needed to kill them, I believe the damage numbers are smaller too. This is just a theory though. (meaning you cant do "Overkill")

[Blazer-X]

I believe someone once said that continuous weapons like ignis and flux deals constant damage. The numbers you see are small packets of that damage condensed together. They might always be around the same values, but they should pop up more frequently. Not completely sure though.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

But heavy caliber usually adds to the damage that serration adds. So the numbers should be higher on the same enemies.

[Nerevar22g]

Maybe it's because the enemies dies too fast? if less damage is needed to kill them, I believe the damage numbers are smaller too. This is just a theory though. (meaning you cant do "Overkill")

No I was fighting level 26 infested, took like 5 seconds of burning to kill them. Im gonna do more testing

[Nerevar22g]

Right, did some more testing:

Ignis with Serration mod - 33 damage per tick

Ignis with Serration and Heavy caliber - you guessed it 33 damage per tick.

its seems only fire mods increase the damage. Could it be that serration and heavy cal only increases physical damage like slash, puncture, impact?

[Bape]

Right, did some more testing:

Ignis with Serration mod - 33 damage per tick

Ignis with Serration and Heavy caliber - you guessed it 33 damage per tick.

its seems only fire mods increase the damage. Could it be that serration and heavy cal only increases physical damage like slash, puncture, impact?

 

Yes serration adds to slash puncture and impact I can confirm this.

 

Edit - also to blast rediation etc.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Bape

[SevenLetterKWord]

Maybe it's because the enemies dies too fast? if less damage is needed to kill them, I believe the damage numbers are smaller too. This is just a theory though. (meaning you cant do "Overkill")

No. That doesn't make sense.

Of course you can do overkill damage. I'm pretty sure the 2k+ headshots I'm getting on Grineer don't actually reflect Grineer having 2k+ health (especially when it only takes 10 or so body shots for 40-50 damage to down 'em).

Also, remember that thread where one guy was bragging about "most damage dealt" using a Vectis? He wasn't doing the most real damage, of course, but the game counted all his overkill damage in the results calculations.

Finally (if you actually play Warframe there's no way you could've missed this), enemy bodies still "take damage" when dead. By that, I mean the expected damage numbers still pop up even when firing on corpses. (This damage might not be used for any calculations, but it can still show you the damage output of your weapon.)

 

I believe someone once said that continuous weapons like ignis and flux deals constant damage. The numbers you see are small packets of that damage condensed together. They might always be around the same values, but they should pop up more frequently. Not completely sure though.

This doesn't make sense either. What you're talking about is obviously a fire rate increase.

It's much more reasonable for a damage boost to actually boost damage instead of calculating what the boost to DPS is and then adjusting the fire rate based on that.

 

All in all, I'm pretty sure this is a bug.

Maybe generic damage boosts are being applied before elemental boosts (only to physical damages). From the developers' perspective, this probably seems reasonable because most weapons only have physical damage, and elemental damage mods are themselves based on the total physical damage (I believe?). Thus, for most weapons, it wouldn't matter where the generic damage boost is calculated.

[Sharrack]

Just did some testing against infested and it does work and stack for me but the bonus is around 10% for rank 7/8 mods. I get 31 on a naked Ignis against lvl17 Infested, around 34 with one mod and around 36 with both. Strange thing is, that Heavy Caliber seems to add a spread in the damage so while average seems to be around 36 with both, there are several 33 and 39 mixed in on the same mob, probably the accuracy reduction version of Ignis.

[Sebastianx]

Also tested,yep no increase in damage... :| so weapons with innate elemental damage don't get increased damage from DMG +% mods since U11? ya that's great,time to test out acrid,lanka,synapse,see if their damage changes.

[Karzak]

I will test this also when I come home.. if its true I will get mad if it isnt hotfixed TODAY!

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[Sharrack]

My guess is they calculate the damage per tick with a fixed damage number and add only a small amount of modable basedamge (something like 1) but use the whole resulting number for further elemental mods.

 

EDIT:

After going through the elemental weapons this seems not to be a problem with elemetal weapons but with how damage is calculated on continous weapons. Lanka and Ogris are fine and Torid gets the correct Bonus on Impact and on the Cloud DoT. Acrid gets full bonus on Hit but the DoT seems not to be affected at all (was with a maxed Hornetstrike so even with only 10% there should have been a change).

Ignis, Synapse and Flux (yup) only get around 10% of the Basedamagebonus.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Sharrack

[TRICK-DADY]

same here i got ignis lvl 30 with 662.5 dmg fire i do xini and deal 80 dmg eatch second i hit .. wtf ? why i hit soooo low dmg ?

Edited November 26, 2013 by TRICK-DADY

[ScorpDK]

this explains why Ignis felt so underwhelming compared to pre-Damage 2.0.

I hope this oversight/bug gets rectified ASAP, because Ignis damage and Acrid DoTs need to have their damage boosts applied properly.

[Chymos]

Just did some testing for myself.

 

Serration itself seems to not be adding the proper damage to Ignis. When testing against the level 1 Grineer on the very first Mercury mission, a completely unmodded Ignis was dealing 22-30 damage a tick, with 27 being the most common, discounting crits and headshots. With a rank 8 serration (135% damage increase), damage was between 24-36, hits of 30 being the most common, when it should be over double that. I suspect serration is only adding 10% of what it should add, as this would be about what one would see with a 13.5% increase. I can't speak for Heavy Caliber, as I don't own one yet.

 

For completeness, I tried throwing on a maxed Hellfire instead (90% fire damage). Hits were about as expected, with a range of 47-57, with 54 being the most common, which is right where you'd expect the numbers to be.

 

Results are almost identical with the Synapse. Serration provides a slight (again, above 10 but below 15%, leading me to think 13.5%, 10% of rank 8's value) bonus, while Stormbringer is providing the proper bonus.

 

Edit: Missed Sharrack's post, this seems to back up his thoughts.

 

Edit 2: Confirmed to affect the Flux Rifle as well, so the issue is with constant fire weapons in general, not just elemental ones. Rifle Amp seems to be affected as well, and if the reports in the thread are accurate regarding Heavy Calibur, it's likely all base damage bonuses are only producing 10% of their effect on constant fire weapons.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Chymos

[Loli-kon]

Hope this is a bug and not something which is intentional. 

This makes my Flux and Ignis useless.

 

Well, after removing serrated blade dmg, Flux is useless for me anyhow so.

[Chymos]

Also appears to affect the Bane of ______ mods. Can anyone confirm if the Embolist or Spectra have the same issues with Hornet Strike and so forth? I'd be curious to know if only primaries and the Acrid DoT are being affected.

[8r8kSpider]

The Spectra is also having this problem. I think there's a bug where continuous weapons aren't applying mods to their new damage types correctly.

[Loli-kon]

Just did some more testing with Ignis, and I have reason to believe Multishot may be bugged as well.

 

Did one-tick damage trials on infested, and always yielded one damage pop-up.

 

IF multishot was working, then the chance of me getting no multishot in 20+ trials is 0.1^20.

 

Pretty unlikely.

[Ceres666]

O_o

 

I don't like the sound of this...

[Grandarex]

Mein Gott, this is a huge bug. Thank you for pointing it out.

 

Hopefully this gets fixed soon. I'm not sure if Warframe department of DE celebrates Thanksgiving or not (they're Canadian!), but I'll be looking forward to a fix for this very soon. 

[calranthe]

Checked with my ignis, I just assumed it was working but none of those type of mods is doing anything for my ignis any more :(