Buff Dragon Nikana (Now With A Little Math And Videos)

[.Talia.]

Its a shame that the coolest melee weapon in the game is kinda meh, when compared to other top tier weapons like orthos prime, dakra prime, and dual ichors.

[GeneralArmchair]

Its a shame that the coolest melee weapon in the game is kinda meh, when compared to other top tier weapons like orthos prime, dakra prime, and dual ichors.

Yep.  The Bo could use some better stats.

[Dalu__Ka]

I wouldn't say focusing spin attacks, but I think what he meant was incorporating spin attacks into your playstyle. Not using them all the time, but not neglecting them.

 

Yup, Spin attacks give great mobility and even greater damage. Combo stances are nice and all, but they are not the sole use of melee's.

[WARLOCKE]

 My 2700+ dmg per swing Dragon Nikana laughs at this foolishness. Samurai>Pirate everytime!

 

Dont even make me post my Dakra smaks! Prirates win everytime.

 

Oh, and my 10kcrits with Galatine. Knights > Pirates > Samurai > Ninja.

Edited April 18, 2014 by WARLOCKE

[WARLOCKE]

Its a shame that the coolest melee weapon in the game is kinda meh, when compared to other top tier weapons like orthos prime, dakra prime, and dual ichors.

 

Coolest? Says you. I say the coolest is the Furax. Spiked oven mitts of doom.

[.Talia.]

The weapon i meant by coolest is obviously the Dragon Nikana 8)

[Raybrand]

isnt the damage calculation in the vid and screen shots bugs? since dakra prime has 60 physical damage and dragon nikana has 85

[Ravtek]

I find the Dragon Nikana to be extremely underwhelming compared to Orthos Prime, Dual Ichors, and Dakra Prime atm. I haven't test other melees yet.

 

I was really hoping that made the Nikana or Dragon Nikana a niche weapon that represented "mastery" (ie: Strong Channeling, since as of now, melee channel is a rough 50% boost to damage to any melee weapon, no variety)

 

But I think right now they should probably either just lower the Mastery Rank requirement, buff the stance, or buff the weapon.

 

Also, good job on posting the video and showing the numbers, some players tend to deny everything until the numbers are shoved down their throats.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Ravtek

[TonyFoot]

bro, here is why the Dakra Prime is better than the dragon katana.

 

dakra is a pirate sword. The katana is a samurai sword.

 

Now, withthis in mind we add in some well known facts.

1)Samurai are weak. 

2)Pirates are stronk.

 

Pirates > japan.

 

So now you know.

 

[Driftwood]

Are you taking into account the crazy range/aoe that Dragon Nikana has? Despite its appearance, the Dragon Nikana is a heavy weapon in the same class as gram and fragor, and those weapons really aren't shining now that charged swings are gone. It's pretty cool if you're getting swarmed by groups of enemies instead of focusing on dps. Hopefully weapons get unique channeling stats(Efficiency, damage bonus, utility effects, etc) so weapons that aren't dakra prime are useful. 

 

Dragon nikana might also not be intended as the top-tier katana also. We might see a Nikana prime sometime down the line that competes with dakra prime. 

[Authion]

Are you taking into account the crazy range/aoe that Dragon Nikana has? Despite its appearance, the Dragon Nikana is a heavy weapon in the same class as gram and fragor, and those weapons really aren't shining now that charged swings are gone. It's pretty cool if you're getting swarmed by groups of enemies instead of focusing on dps. Hopefully weapons get unique channeling stats(Efficiency, damage bonus, utility effects, etc) so weapons that aren't dakra prime are useful. 

 

Dragon nikana might also not be intended as the top-tier katana also. We might see a Nikana prime sometime down the line that competes with dakra prime. 

^This..

Prime weapon should be at top tier, and yeah dakra prime doesn't even have that much range compared to DN

[Oishii]

I am curious how the dakra prime, orthos prime, and dual ichors compare to each other when modded with their ideal stance. Jiggliest I saw you earlier claiming that dual ichors were the best melee weapons by a long shot, has your mind changed at all? From what I have seen my orthos prime with bleeding willow out-damges my scoliac (tried both stances) and jat kittag (with crushing blow) because it's combo has more hits in it , at least against a single target.where its easier to get all the bleeding willow's multi hits in the combo.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Oishii

[low1991]

no +1 to you OP.

atm dragon nikana seems Over-buffed for me.

opps :X

[Atholl]

I personally think OP is right about stances.

I did a few tests and the Crimson Dervish stance bosts your weapon damage to 350% it's actual output with the base EEE combo, count in the 2 multi-hit on the second and third E and yeah you have a grand total of 1750% damage output each combo.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Atholl

[hikistyle]

Are you taking into account the crazy range/aoe that Dragon Nikana has? Despite its appearance, the Dragon Nikana is a heavy weapon in the same class as gram and fragor, and those weapons really aren't shining now that charged swings are gone. It's pretty cool if you're getting swarmed by groups of enemies instead of focusing on dps. Hopefully weapons get unique channeling stats(Efficiency, damage bonus, utility effects, etc) so weapons that aren't dakra prime are useful. 

 

Dragon nikana might also not be intended as the top-tier katana also. We might see a Nikana prime sometime down the line that competes with dakra prime. 

Dragon nikana might not intended as top-tier katana? with that Mastery Rank 8 as requirement to equip it?

Gram and Fragor requirement Mastery Rank is 2, pretty much most new people to Warframe could use it right away in beginning and we have Nikana with Mastery Rank requirement is 4 pretty much close to Fragor and Gram. You're comparing with wrong weapon good sir.

To get rank 8 you need more afford, not by simply playing around a bit at apollodorus.

So Dragon Nikana have it's right to get more-power weapon than other.

 

Edited April 20, 2014 by hikistyle

[Ravtek]

I am curious how the dakra prime, orthos prime, and dual ichors compare to each other when modded with their ideal stance. Jiggliest I saw you earlier claiming that dual ichors were the best melee weapons by a long shot, has your mind changed at all? From what I have seen my orthos prime with bleeding willow out-damges my scoliac (tried both stances) and jat kittag (with crushing blow) because it's combo has more hits in it , at least against a single target.where its easier to get all the bleeding willow's multi hits in the combo.

Until Jiggles answers this, I'll answer from that I've seen testing all three so far.

 

Ichors>Dakra>Orthos Prime

 

This is assuming their ideal stances.

 

Dakra prime might be more consistent in damage per hit, but the high crit damage coupled with high attack speed of Ichors probably beats it in terms of long term dps.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Ryden]

Crimson Dervish stance doubles damage output of longswords, so that's pretty much why Dakra outdamages Dragon Nikana. Try using Iron Phoenix and you'll see completely different numbers.

Is this a fact? I've never heard any mention of this until I read your post.

[LukeAura]

Is this a fact? I've never heard any mention of this until I read your post.

Not every attack of each stance does the same damage. I know that much. 

So it is entirely possible that some stances are crammed full of high damage attacks, while others aren't.

[Ryden]

Dont even make me post my Dakra smaks! Prirates win everytime.

 

Oh, and my 10kcrits with Galatine. Knights > Pirates > Samurai > Ninja.

I crit for like, 44k with an Orthos Prime in ODD.

[Operative_Shift]

Crimson Dervish stance doubles damage output of longswords, so that's pretty much why Dakra outdamages Dragon Nikana. Try using Iron Phoenix and you'll see completely different numbers.

Though there's one thing to mention: price of said huge damage boost is significant loss in mobility and speed (yes, I know you can counter it with Berserk mod) and I'm not even talking about swing speed, I'm talking about how frame starts literaly crawling whenever you try to melee stuff...it's like you're swinging some heavy two-hander.

Now I have no idea if it's intended or not, but it kinda makes sense that you're trading speed for sheer damage.

About Tranquil Cleave: it's actually pretty awkward to use compared to default, stance-less combos. Yeah Tranquil combos look cool, but standart "one-two" attack pattern is way more fluid and effective. Plus it doesn't slow you down while you're swinging Nikana on move.

About Ichors: these things were always good and Melee 2.0 just made them even better, so I'm only happy about it.

P.S. Nikanas need stance similar to Crimson Dervish - slow and wide strikes with significant damage increase.

P.P.S. Using Dakra with Crimson Dervish against infested while being under effect of invisibility is soo uncomfortable.

 

 

Is this a fact? I've never heard any mention of this until I read your post.

 

 

So I've been taking a look into this, and I totally agree with Re6ellion that attack speed is a huge factor in this and can't be ignored.

When we compare the Iron Phoenix stance vs. Crimson Dervish stance, note the fact that the swing speed on each is quite different.  (pulling from one of my videos, 6 frames is aprox 1 second)  I counted each frame for the weapon swings.  Iron Phoenix's first swing takes 9 frames to fully complete, while Crimson Dervish takes 19 frames to complete and that's why there's such a big damage variation between the stances.  Simply put one does lower damage, but is much quicker to deal it, while the other takes more time, but hits harder with each swing.

I do completely agree that it's really difficult to figure out exactly what the combos are doing, but I think you may be selling the Dragon Nikanas a bit short if you're basing it soely on combo damage.  The attack speed thing is pretty huge, but I'm wondering if it has something to do with the combo completion time.  When it comes down to frames, the 3 hit combo from Crimson Dervish takes about 70 frames to complete, while the Dragon Nikana's take about 55.  So taking a single hit for face value and not the potential dps of the actual weapon may be a mistake.  

Another thing that needs to be factored in is exactly where each strike hits your opponents.  I've found the third strike on iron phoenix (taking flight combo) to deal A LOT more damage than the rest of the combo, but soon realized that it was because the angle of the attack usually struck a headshot on Grineer and thus applied the head multiplier.  (I figured this out because I struck a group with the third strike, and hit a non staggered opponent in the head, but landed one on the body of a staggered opponent behind him).  I'm not sure if it was a mindful benefit that DE coded in for an intentional headshot, or whether they just put it in because they thought it looked cool. 

As for the tranquil cleave stance, its definitely a bit harder to measure, because several of its combos either speed up or slow down.   The tranquil cleave stance's first swing is approximately 14 frames, but when you get to the stabby bit in breathless lunge, each stab is 10 or less frames and occurs 3x.

So until we can get a solid measure on how much each combo does OVERALL with no body modifiers added and each strike's special combo modifiers added, then take the time it takes to complete a combo, we can't start throwing out things saying that the weapon and stance are sub par.

 

If anyone actually feels like timing the combos I've got the videos up with pretty clear animations (note these are full reviews, just skip to the combo part):

Katana Stance: 

Sword Stances: https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=iZG_RqqSdpk

 

[fatpig84]

Dragon Nikana has significant range and AOE than say Dual Ichors.

 

Ichors balances out by having a $&*&*#(%& short range and a near mandatory slot of Organ shatter, True Steel and Berserker to be anywhere near comparable. In contrast Dragon Nikana and Dakra Prime can ignore these 3 completely.

[Hayzemet]

I knew i was not crazy, havnt read but the OP but ohh he is right, at least dakra is my favorite weapon LOL

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

I knew i was not crazy, havnt read but the OP but ohh he is right, at least dakra is my favorite weapon LOL

lolol

 

 

But dragon nikana and tranquil cleave have a LOT more attack speed and aoe than dakra prime

[Oishii]

lolol

 

 

But dragon nikana and tranquil cleave have a LOT more attack speed and aoe than dakra prime

I would hope weapons with less speed and aoe to do more damage, though I really want to know how much more.

[yarash2110]

Probably the best melee weapon in the game, and if you are comparing it to long range weapons and call for a buff then that is more about buffing all melee weapons