Casual Observation....dragons Were A Bit Smallish, Weren't They?

[Cyberhazard]

In my opinion,  Chroma's pelt have nothing to do with Sentients.

For me , it's a link to the Dark Sector's Game. Let me explain.

DE Start to integrate some elements of Dark Sector in Warframe, Proto Excal, Proto Glaive, Nyx Nemesis.

Megan Stated that Dark Sector and Warframe ARE linked, we just dont know to which level, but it's probably that dark sector is a moment in a looooooong past

=> https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/202706-march-28th-community-hot-topics/#entry2357155

In Dark Sector there's an enemy called Chroma, the only similarities are in the name.

=>

We know that Drac helmet was originally the main head of Chroma, but the community complained like they always do and DE changed the order of his helmets . But there's an enemy in Dark Sector, Called "Stalker" that share a stunning ressemblance on the head.

=>

 

IF Dark Sector is a period of the past from Warframe, that could explain the "From a race long forgotten."

I think the link people make between Chroma and Sentients are due to the close time that DE took to show them.


I dont say my opinion is the only and the true one, but it's how I see it. I hope I explained it well.

Keep Fighting Fellow Tenno !

[Morec0]

<snip>

 

Actually a really good find, very fascinating look. The issue I take with the "it's an infested pelt" theory is that the Infested HAVEN'T been forgotten. They're still around, still doing things, and we remember them well. The Sentients, on the other hand? They're only JUST now coming back - lending itself to the idea of being forgotten more.

[321agemo]

Actually a really good find, very fascinating look. The issue I take with the "it's an infested pelt" theory is that the Infested HAVEN'T been forgotten. They're still around, still doing things, and we remember them well. The Sentients, on the other hand? They're only JUST now coming back - lending itself to the idea of being forgotten more.

Depends on the time scale were working with. Technically the infested returned not long after we were awaken (see once awaken quest), and we have believed them to have been wiped out also. So they could be considered long forgotten

also, feels good tenno-ing Morec0

Edited April 30, 2015 by 321agemo

[Morec0]

Depends on the time scale were working with. Technically the infested returned not long after we were awaken (see once awaken quest), and we have believed them to have been wiped out also. So they could be considered long forgotten

also, feels good tenno-ing Morec0

 

Yes, but the Grineer (and likely Corpus) had been experimenting on them likely before we awoke. For how long is unclear, but in light of that I'm now sure if they can be considered "long forgotten", especially compared to the Sentients who are only coming back now after our own awakening.

 

But these are good point, and definitely worth considering as the future lore opens up for us to see.

[Cyberhazard]

Actually a really good find, very fascinating look. The issue I take with the "it's an infested pelt" theory is that the Infested HAVEN'T been forgotten. They're still around, still doing things, and we remember them well. The Sentients, on the other hand? They're only JUST now coming back - lending itself to the idea of being forgotten more.

As Dark Sector players know, the enemies that I linked are "Infested" , they are a sort of "old versions" of the infestation that we know today. The Technocyte Virus is still around, they share the same name between the two games, but  who says that the orokins didn't changed it a bit to please their experiences ?

Bot the infested from Warframe, and Dark Sectors Are infested.  The victims of the Alpha Virus could be it.

I dont link "Sentients" and "Infested", since when we hear "Infestation" we think about corrupted and mutated body/mind, Hivemind.   Not like an electronic virus that take the control of the technology like the Sentients do.  the wall between biologic and electronic make me think like that.

In a way, Drac Helmet look like one of Lephantis Heads ( the left one ).   Lephantis is one, if not the oldest Infested in Warframe, it could the next step in the Evolution of the Virus by the Orokins. Since it share the same similarities with the head of "Stalker"(Dark Sector) and Draco helm.

A Virus evolve with the environnement or by an external hand. We dont have "big" proofs of this theory, but we know that Orokins "create" the Technocyte Virus. ( or at least, created the current Virus).

If we take Dark Sector as a Past of Warframe, The Virus already existed, they could stole the project and modify it as their will imo.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Cyberhazard

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

 

Legion. For we are many.

 

 

I We can dig it.

[-Vane-]

Fact: Chroma is wearing a pelt that looks oddly simmilar to the original Stalker from Dark Sector, who happend to be a more developed Chroma. Besides it looks that way with the Drac Helmet

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

@ Morec0 and Cyberhazard -
 

First the Dark Sector reference and connection by CyberHazard is awesome. I really dig it. Thanks for posting that. It was interesting to say the least.

Secondly @ Morec0, I don't know if you recall, but yesterday I made a post about how people have said if you scanned Chroma then in your codex he shows up under the Infested faction, and I said maybe his pelt was infested after he claimed it from a Sentient. So last night after I got home from work and had dinner I checked to confirm this myself.

Interestingly enough when I go to my codex and check on Chroma he indeed does show up as Infested, but the MORE interesting thing is it's not Chroma in his full glory that shows up when you click on him. Unlike other scanned enemies who show up in their full gear and setup when you click on them in your codex, Chroma shows up WITHOUT his pelt. In fact Chroma only shows up as infested as the warframe underneath the pelt. The pelt is nowhere to be found. It's not on Chroma, and it's not floating anywhere in the air. So to me, this MIGHT suggest that it is ACTUALLY the WARFRAME that is infested and NOT the pelt.

So it looks like, at least according to the codex, it's CHROMA who is infested and not the pelt.

Just thought I'd toss that in there.

[Morec0]

@ Morec0 and Cyberhazard -

 

First the Dark Sector reference and connection by CyberHazard is awesome. I really dig it. Thanks for posting that. It was interesting to say the least.

Secondly @ Morec0, I don't know if you recall, but yesterday I made a post about how people have said if you scanned Chroma then in your codex he shows up under the Infested faction, and I said maybe his pelt was infested after he claimed it from a Sentient. So last night after I got home from work and had dinner I checked to confirm this myself.

Interestingly enough when I go to my codex and check on Chroma he indeed does show up as Infested, but the MORE interesting thing is it's not Chroma in his full glory that shows up when you click on him. Unlike other scanned enemies who show up in their full gear and setup when you click on them in your codex, Chroma shows up WITHOUT his pelt. In fact Chroma only shows up as infested as the warframe underneath the pelt. The pelt is nowhere to be found. It's not on Chroma, and it's not floating anywhere in the air. So to me, this MIGHT suggest that it is ACTUALLY the WARFRAME that is infested and NOT the pelt.

So it looks like, at least according to the codex, it's CHROMA who is infested and not the pelt.

Just thought I'd toss that in there.

 

What is exactly what I'm saying - Chroma, as with all Warframes, be made of Technoyte - while Chroma's pelt is the result of melting down and wearing a Sentient robot body...

 

That said, the lack of a pelt on Chroma in the Codex may just be a bug - ala the lack of a head on Mutalist Mesa.

[BaneOfOrion]

Most medieval paintings i've seen of saint George slaying the dragon, show it to be rather small, usually smaller than his horse. It seems the gargantuan monsters we're familiar with came later. Just a thought.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

@ Morec0 - Yes. I agree. I was just bringing it up to more or less corroborate what you were saying.

The only issue I take up with listing Chroma as "Infested" is because Chroma is a Tenno. Now I am not the most up-to-date or knowledgeable on Warframe lore, so feel free (anybody really) to check me on this....but I thought in Warframe there were 4 main factions (in-game) and 2 additional factions (by way of lore).

The 4 main factions/race is of course the Grineer, the Corpus, the Infested, and the Tenno. The 2 additional factions that we really only know about by way of lore in the current game is the Orokin and the Sentient.

So it seems Chroma, since he is a Tenno, should be listed as Tenno, why do they list him as "Faction: Infestation"? If that were true, then why aren't all Tenno simply listed as "Infestation", why do we need to even make a separation between Tenno and the Infested?

Clearly the Warframe universe makes that distinction ---> The Tenno is one race (faction) and the Infested is another. So at least to me (and not saying you are wrong, because I do like your theory), it seems a little off to say simply because Chroma like the other Tennos are infected by the Technocyte Virus and therefore that is why he is listed as an Infested. because if that were the case they should all just be Infested, and why bother to distinguish them as Tenno?

[Bigbizz44]

@ Morec0 - Yes. I agree. I was just bringing it up to more or less corroborate what you were saying.

The only issue I take up with listing Chroma as "Infested" is because Chroma is a Tenno. Now I am not the most up-to-date or knowledgeable on Warframe lore, so feel free (anybody really) to check me on this....but I thought in Warframe there were 4 main factions (in-game) and 2 additional factions (by way of lore).

The 4 main factions/race is of course the Grineer, the Corpus, the Infested, and the Tenno. The 2 additional factions that we really only know about by way of lore in the current game is the Orokin and the Sentient.

So it seems Chroma, since he is a Tenno, should be listed as Tenno, why do they list him as "Faction: Infestation"? If that were true, then why aren't all Tenno simply listed as "Infestation", why do we need to even make a separation between Tenno and the Infested?

Clearly the Warframe universe makes that distinction ---> The Tenno is one race (faction) and the Infested is another. So at least to me (and not saying you are wrong, because I do like your theory), it seems a little off to say simply because Chroma like the other Tennos are infected by the Technocyte Virus and therefore that is why he is listed as an Infested. because if that were the case they should all just be Infested, and why bother to distinguish them as Tenno?

Because the WF isn't the Tenno.  The Tenno control the WF, but the WF is made using infested materials.

 

Infested mesa was a "hollow" WF, and thus not considered a Tenno by the Lotus.

 

The difference is made that way under the codex because infested chroma isn't being controlled by a Tenno, but by some other force.

 

edit: typos

Edited April 30, 2015 by Bigbizz44

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

It's not really "stated" but moreso made by observation on my part

Compare

and

In particular, note the thick upper thighs of the Sentient compared to the thighs on the Chroma's pelt and the little wing things that come out of the back of each - square-shaped, though Chroma's are smaller.

The sort of tuning-fork shape of the Sentient's weapons even matches with the two-fingers of the Chroma pelt while he has it deployed.

It's just speculation on my part, but I'm thinking that it's very well-founded speculation - ESPECIALLY given that a Chroma was apparently being Sentient-controlled during The New Strange. How could they manage this? I mean, they can't control our Warframes, that's one of the reasons we were so effective against them...

Well, if Chroma was wearing one of their own machines as a suit, then all they would have to do is be able to interface with the Sentient body and they could puppet the Warframe underneath all they wanted.

The Tenno are some sick dudes! Chroma is the Hannibal Lector frame. And we killed the people we saved from space aliens and let the system get over ran by the Grineer. Now we are just like a bunch of bored teenaged boys that rob and kill for stuff. Where are my air Jordan's. there is no end game because Tenno have no purpose.

[belcebub]

Chroma would like you to think him some kind of dragon-slaying badass. In reality, he slaughtered a baby dragon in its sleep. Not cool mr. Chroma.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

@ BigBizz - True I see what you're saying. However from lore we know for example Ember was sent into the Void as a being an actual being and she came back infected and turned. Or I believe that is what her lore suggests. If that is the case it isn't just the frame that is infected with the virus it is the being itself. Or at leas the original being itself is infected by the virus. Therefore the original Tenno him or herself was infected by the virus and not just the frame. If you go back to the Dark Sector references I believe this is even more so the case.

So I don't think it is unreasonable to believe that Chroma himself, Chroma the Tenno is infected with the virus, and not just the warframe he controls.

@ belcbub - lolol

Edited April 30, 2015 by (XB1)Lorewalker1022

[Bigbizz44]

@ BigBizz - True I see what you're saying. However from lore we know for example Ember was sent into the Void as a being an actual being and she came back infected and turned. Or I believe that is what her lore suggests. If that is the case it isn't just the frame that is infected with the virus it is the being itself. Or at leas the original being itself is infected by the virus. Therefore the original Tenno him or herself was infected by the virus and not just the frame. If you go back to the Dark Sector references I believe this is even more so the case.

So I don't think it is unreasonable to believe that Chroma himself, Chroma the Tenno is infected with the virus, and not just the warframe he controls.

 

The lore stated nothing about the Zariman children being infested.  The lore stated that the Zariman children displayed the ability to radiate void energy, nothing more and nothing less.  There was no reference to the infestation anywhere in the ember prime codex.  Also those children looked very much like normal children, otherwise that Kaleen would never have approached it, receiving the injuries that she did.  An infested child would not look like a normal human, especially with its ability to burn people, nor would it supposedly cower in fear as described by Kaleen.

 

However, we can infer that the WF itself is using infested material through the rhino prime codex, as the beast described is not a Tenno, but more resembles a feral infested beast with the ability to create crude WF powers.  It is common knowledge that the Zariman children were extensively experimented on by the Orokin to turn their affliction into useful forces of destruction, and thus it can also be inferred that the original Zariman children looked, and functioned, differently from the Tenno currently.

 

Also infested are said to have metal-like flesh, very similar to the WF, as we know the outer skin is supposedly more closely related to a kind of metal, even though it bends like normal skin.  Including Lephantis quotes "we are your flesh" further supports the hypothesis that at the very least the WF is using infested flesh.  The WF focuses the void energy into a specific ability, and to ensure that technology couldn't be controlled by sentients the WF would almost need to be exclusively biological as well, thus made out of infested flesh as the Tvirus can do some interesting stuff.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Bigbizz44

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

^ interesting stuff. You bring up some very good points. However the lore also doesn't suggest the other way either. The lore doesn't say the children were not exposed to any levels of infestation, and even if Kaleen found the children to resemble or fully still look like children, it doesn't necessarily mean they weren't infected, because we don't know how long it takes for the infestation to take place. But once again, I am under assumption, and I don't have DE lore to back that up.

If we hypothesize that the child Kaleen found was to some degree infected (I have to lay out an assumption, so bare with me), then before the infestation takes complete control the child/children may very well look normal and may very well still exhibit the qualities of a child and feel fear as Kaleen approached.

Also as for the Ember lore, no where in the lore does it actually say the Zariman children displayed the ability to radiate void energy. It is a conclusion speculated and drawn upon that Kaleen received her wounds from the Zariman children because they had received some kind of void energy, but just as the lore didn't state they were infected, the lore never once states they received void energy, or that Kaleen got her wounds because of so.

Also interestingly enough (although this has nothing to do with the topic at hand) whenever people talk about the Ember lore they tend to think the Orokin sent the children into the void space. However at the very end of her lore it is plausibly denied by Kaleen's corresponder when asked why they had put children on a military ship. the response was "We didn't. That would violate procedure.". Of course you can take it as this is simply the protocol answer given to Kathleen or it might be the truth. Perhaps, somebody else had put those children on that ship.

Cheers

[Bigbizz44]

-snip-

and this is why the community needs more lore. 

 

I will admit that the Zariman children being infused with void energy is an assumption, and can be passed off as not viable evidence.  However, we know that the void is a dangerous place: nothing survives.  The Zariman children did survive, and their existence is important in the story in some aspect in relation to the void, otherwise the story wouldn't really describe anything that we already know, and thus pointless.

 

Although, in Excalibur's codex "We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction."  This is evidence that those few that survived the trip to the void were changed in some way in relation to the void.  So although the idea that the Zariman children were infused by the void still isn't specifically stated, there is weak evidence that supports that children are void infused as the void, not the infestation, is specified when lore refers to those that survived their journey into the void.

 

edit: also forgot to bring up Void Vor.  Whether anyone believes that he is very similar to the original Zariman children is not important.  It is important to note that the Void does change those that do survive by infusing them with void energy.  So, I see it as safe to assume that the Zariman children were infused by the void, rather than changed by the infestation.  Weak evidence, however that's better than no evidence.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Bigbizz44

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

^ concur

[321agemo]

I like how this thread went from talking to small dragons to the origin of tennos.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I like how this thread went from talking to small dragons to the origin of tennos.

And it also merged Morec0 and I into one entity.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

Hey . We were talking about small dragon; not talking to small dragons. We're not crazy you know lol

[Morec0]

And it also merged Morec0 and us into one entity.

 

We have fix'd this for us.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

Also just a casual observation. Despite having different versions of helms, technically speaking; Chroma is the only warframe that does not have helmet variation.

[321agemo]

And it also merged Morec0 and I into one entity.

 

you know, i'm sure certain fanfict writers could take that out of context.....