TheChaotic1
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Posts posted by TheChaotic1
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I missed a lot during that sleep, thankfully most folks round here are pretty mature.
I am not stretching the lore to justify anything, this is how I really feel the infested function. As for helminth, the Grineer have been around since before the infested, so it's possible that the current Chargers are based on a older prototype, or heven could even still be attached to the hive mind. Honestly there is no telling. Probably just there to give us the charger anyway
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2 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:
Actually, its implied there was lots of lorists as its stated that the twins were't trained as combat lorists, implying that more exist. Ergo, its completely possible many lorists were infected. Just because they specifically has never seen a ancient, doesn't mean the outbreak hadn't recently reached far enough into the empire to start taking valuable personal like lorists and combat lorists. the twins were likely far from the front lines, but combat lorists would have been in the thick of it.
I can't see anything that supports the technocyte virus creating whatever they want without the right biomass.
Honestly we are just going to have to agree to disagree, because the lore supports the generation of infested, you are discounting a key element (The boiler) and our stances are just too different, this is the problem with the lore getting spoon fed to us IMO.
That was definitely my mistake on the lorists though you are right, but she very clearly said she was connected to her sister alone, and that all the healers there were her sister. I don't need more proof then that.
My evidence is: Generation of grineer and corpus parts from infested flesh: Boiler and Hel Charger. Implication of cloning: Ancient Synthesis Scan
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4 minutes ago, CY13ERPUNK said:
'white knights'
The only thing I am defending is that the lore is sound. Thats it.
Was the charger update god awful? YES! Are the cysts the cancer that will plague us for another half month or so? Unfortunately.
Should they have added this in a patch later instead of with Nidus? God yes.
Does it being a grineer make zero sense? Only if you ignore the infested lore.
Should it have just been a kubrow? Honestly I'm fifty fifty on this one, I want a charger, I really do, but rot dog would have been pretty spiffy too.
No where am I calling this great, just lore compliant.
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1 minute ago, StinkyPygmy said:
Because there is likely many, many lorists that were infected over the fall of the empire? And they naturally survive much longer then others as they can regenerate faster.
We don't even know if there ARE more lorists, there weren't that many orokin, so they wouldn't need that many doctors, and considering their regenerative abilities they probably don't even need them that often, but there's really not enough evidence either way on this one. DESPITE THAT! There were a ton of lorist infected right after her sister was taken, and it was implied that they were a brand new type at the time.
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3 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:
Its her consciousness, not her specifically. She is the infested in the same way everyone infested is. Its a hivemind, all consciousnesses melded into one. But from a physical perspective, nothing states they can replicate Physical DNA from nothing.
And yet there are tons of infested healers, each with a lora device. And its not from nothing, its the template. This is basic hive mind stuff man.
Also, she ONLY sensed her sister in the healers, not in the other riff raff, if she was sensing her mind only she'd get it from all of them
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I was wondering this too, I plan to make my Nidus look like a H.Charger, so if they all get orange that's good to know. But every other color is the same each time, so my guess is YES
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1 minute ago, HerpDerpy said:
they should have just made it a skin instead of an entire new pet. At least when it comes to skins DE doesn't have to worry about lore. they can just let you use the kubro you want and make it look like a charger.
Honestly I totally agree with that because I'd much rather get to use my Huras and have it be infested. The hyekka skin was a great addition.
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34 minutes ago, TheChaotic1 said:
They were Lorist Infested, my sister the healer, remade as monster and here to kill us.
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Or you could go with the simple explanation that's from the actual lore? That the infestation generates its troops from biomass.
And what do you mean they can't replicate DNA, the lore on ancients is that they are all the same woman? Literally the same woman.
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Yes they would have, that was the plan all along, they are only changing it because people would rather it now have those parts. Yes there was a lot of hot garbage in the implementation, but its a charger, its what they said we were getting, its what its called in the lore. Its what was asked for by a loud group of members.
I am not justifying anything, it doesn't have to make sense honestly, but the thing is it DOES fit warframes lore. I am just here to explain why it has a mask, thats all.
I'm pro new model, I'm anti ignorant complaints.
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The counter is, its a charger, all chargers look the same.
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2 minutes ago, Separius said:
That story proves nothing about the infested having and using cloning technology.
The model is just a placeholder.
You mean the story about a woman who is linked to her sister via a specific piece of technology, the same piece of tech that links her to every infested healer?
Anyway they are bioclones based on templates, not literal clones.
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The grineer part is there because people asked for a charger specifically, so they literally gave us a charger. Like, thats what a charger IS, there is no other flavor of charger. The lore outright says that all this stuff is replicated. They can replicate moas why not plastic? How do you think all those grineer corpses got onto the corpus ships?
Spoiler
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Its implied that the infested healers reduce damage because they are replicating a specially made one of a kind orokin artifact, I think a hunk of ferrite isn't that hard to replicate. Infestation is not as organic as it looks.
2 minutes ago, -FV-Metheria said:
But like, it can manufacture a artificial metal plated mask? Does Ordis subtly build one for it behind our backs?
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3 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:
Frankly this makes even less sense, the infestation in it's purest form doesn't look like anything man made, it looks like ancients and boilers and brood mothers and maggots, there's no reason for it to "make" replicas of grineer armor just because it's a charger, it has grineer armor because it was once a grineer.
Basically yes, it is absolutely the way it is because it's a videogame, even if DE tries to patch it up with a shaky and illogical lore reason.
I happened to have this copy pasted so here:
Spoiler“She’s dead,” said Dax Menz, growing impatient.
“No, she’s not,” I knew it.
Our shuttle touched down in the ancient city center of New Uxmal for the second time in two days. We rushed to the entrance of the lower chambers, a labyrinth of tunnels carved into the rock. Behind us marched a full complement of bodyguards and Moas.
Menz asked again, “How can you be sure?”
“We’ve been connected for a century and a half, I’m sure.” It felt odd to be speaking aloud about something that Remballa and I had always just kept between us. That feeling of attachment, that anxiety that welled up within one of us when the other wasn’t right. That emptiness I felt when I thought they’d killed her and the joy when the connection came rushing back this morning.
We were twins bred for purpose, cloned and then modified so that we could both interface with the Lora Device. The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies and into the Lora Device embedded in our palms. We made them uncomfortable and they made that known, that is, until they were sick or hurt and then we were saviors. That never bothered me though, I loved my sister and we had each other. I wasn’t about to leave her in the middle of this nightmare.
Hesitation was building in Menz’s face. I had command authority but if he balked, the soldiers would follow him. I needed to force his support, “If you were Tenno, there’d be no question.”
“The betrayers…” he stopped himself. “Look, Remballa’s gone. The Infested killed her yesterday, we both saw it.” His frustration was building, “Damnit, this was supposed to be a relief mission, we can’t-”
“It still is a relief mission.” I interrupted, “You want to go back to retirement Menz, or are you still a Dax?” I knew that stung.
Menz stiffened. He’d been cast aside before. He wasn’t about to let duty slip through his fingers again. Menz stared into me, “Are you willing to risk becoming one of those things for a feeling?”
I nodded, the answer was yes, for this feeling.
“Very well Lorist Ontella,” Menz turned to his squad. “Ready up.”
We entered the subterranean passage, weapon lights illuminated chiseled red stone as we marched deeper into the blackness, past shops and apartments, all carved into the rock eons ago. This city was as old as Mars's atmosphere. Everything was silent, save for the occasional snap of bone under a soldier’s boot. Three days ago this was a busy thoroughfare, now, bloodied scraps of clothing littered the route like confetti. We emerged from the tunnels into cavernous arcade, the Old Market Road. This is where she had led me.
“We’re close,” I said.
“Here they come,” shouted Dax Menz and creatures began to drive at us from every door and window. All teeth and claws and eyes that looked looked so familiar, what kind of animal has eyes like that?
“Square formation!” Menz commanded. We backed up to a wall and the Moa’s moved to form a perimeter, with the bodyguards behind them and me in the middle.
I closed my eyes and focused the device, through it I could feel each one of the bodyguards. A sergeant was slashed through the leg and I directed my energy toward him, his wound closed and he resumed fighting. Acid spit burned another soldier’s chest, I pushed energy to her, eased the pain, then reversed the damage, she would live. This was so much harder without Remballa. Another soldier was bit on the throat, he’s dying, there was nothing I could do, so I ease his pain and let him go. The rate of fire slowed, had we pushed them back?
I opened my eyes to see the Moa’s beams incinerate the last few attackers. I was drained. I wasn’t a combat Lorist, Remballa and I were relief workers, used in disasters and outbreaks, not this.
I felt a surge of that familiar connection, Remballa’s energy pulsed through me. “She’s coming,” I shouted.
“What?” Dax Menz head whipped around to look at me.
“I don’t know,” I said pointing at a hall exit, “she’s coming, from that direction.”
“More Infested!” Shouted a soldier who motioned to the same exit.
A mess of figures shambled forth. These were different, bigger and slower. I could feel my sister in there somehow, it was so strong. The Moas opened fire. I wanted to tell them to stop but how could I? I felt plasma beams burn the creatures and then I felt Remballa heal them. Why? Multiple connections now, I felt her many times over, it didn’t make sense, until it did; she was those things, all of them. They took our fire and kept coming. I felt her, no them, shudder as bullets ripped through flesh and then as flesh was made new again. They were Lorist Infested, my sister the healer, remade as monster and here to kill us.
More rushed in. I felt the healing in them too. I focused just as the first wave broke through our lines. Moas were toppled, soldiers were tackled, teeth tore flesh. I was overwhelmed, I couldn’t control it, their pain fed back through me and I collapsed. Something’s jaws latched onto my foot. Infection pulsed into my veins.
And then I felt it, a new presence, another healer? I’d felt this before, was it, it couldn’t be… I opened my eyes only to be blinded by an intense flash, followed by a crash, like a thousand crystal goblets all being shattered at once. All went silent, the Infested were dead. I felt nothing now.
My eyes readjusted. I was surrounded by bodies. I saw something run away, a streak of silver and gold. It shot straight up the cavern wall and out into the sunshine above.
I didn’t have time to think, I took a breath and a wave of pain surged through my entire body. The Infestation had already taken my leg, soon it would claim the rest of my body. I didn’t care, my sister was gone, this was my time.
A shadow cast itself over me. I looked up. It was Menz, alive, he stared down without speaking and then unsheathed his massive combat blade and raised it high above his head.
“Menz wait,” I mumbled, “I’m sorry.”
With sudden and sure force his blade sliced down and through me. I contorted in with the pain.
His hands grabbed my shoulders, “Heal yourself!”
The adrenaline must have struck at that moment because I bolted up, still stunned, he had cut the infected leg clean off.
“Damnit Ontella,” Menz was shaking me hard now. “Heal yourself!”
Instinct took over, I snapped into focus and sent all the energy I had left through the device and down to the wound. I stopped the bleeding and neutralized the remaining toxin. I nearly passed out, I had nothing left.
Menz hoisted me onto his shoulder, “I’m taking us back to the shuttle,” and he began walk out of there. A few scattered survivors and robots pulled themselves along behind us.
As we approached safety I coughed and whispered to Menz, “I can feel her again.”
“She’s dead.”
“Yes, she is.”
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Okay, there is a serious lack of understanding of why the helminth is a grineer. Everyone keeps asking why its not a kubrow, and honestly it was never supposed to be. Helminth had no idea you would use a kubrow egg, he just needed biomatter.
The infested are clones, each one made following a template, every charger is made from the first grineer that was changed into one, just as every ancient healer was made from the first woman to turn to one.
This is the lore revealed from the synthesis scanner about infested ancients, if you read it, the grineer model will make much more sense
Spoiler“She’s dead,” said Dax Menz, growing impatient.
“No, she’s not,” I knew it.
Our shuttle touched down in the ancient city center of New Uxmal for the second time in two days. We rushed to the entrance of the lower chambers, a labyrinth of tunnels carved into the rock. Behind us marched a full complement of bodyguards and Moas.
Menz asked again, “How can you be sure?”
“We’ve been connected for a century and a half, I’m sure.” It felt odd to be speaking aloud about something that Remballa and I had always just kept between us. That feeling of attachment, that anxiety that welled up within one of us when the other wasn’t right. That emptiness I felt when I thought they’d killed her and the joy when the connection came rushing back this morning.
We were twins bred for purpose, cloned and then modified so that we could both interface with the Lora Device. The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies and into the Lora Device embedded in our palms. We made them uncomfortable and they made that known, that is, until they were sick or hurt and then we were saviors. That never bothered me though, I loved my sister and we had each other. I wasn’t about to leave her in the middle of this nightmare.
Hesitation was building in Menz’s face. I had command authority but if he balked, the soldiers would follow him. I needed to force his support, “If you were Tenno, there’d be no question.”
“The betrayers…” he stopped himself. “Look, Remballa’s gone. The Infested killed her yesterday, we both saw it.” His frustration was building, “Damnit, this was supposed to be a relief mission, we can’t-”
“It still is a relief mission.” I interrupted, “You want to go back to retirement Menz, or are you still a Dax?” I knew that stung.
Menz stiffened. He’d been cast aside before. He wasn’t about to let duty slip through his fingers again. Menz stared into me, “Are you willing to risk becoming one of those things for a feeling?”
I nodded, the answer was yes, for this feeling.
“Very well Lorist Ontella,” Menz turned to his squad. “Ready up.”
We entered the subterranean passage, weapon lights illuminated chiseled red stone as we marched deeper into the blackness, past shops and apartments, all carved into the rock eons ago. This city was as old as Mars's atmosphere. Everything was silent, save for the occasional snap of bone under a soldier’s boot. Three days ago this was a busy thoroughfare, now, bloodied scraps of clothing littered the route like confetti. We emerged from the tunnels into cavernous arcade, the Old Market Road. This is where she had led me.
“We’re close,” I said.
“Here they come,” shouted Dax Menz and creatures began to drive at us from every door and window. All teeth and claws and eyes that looked looked so familiar, what kind of animal has eyes like that?
“Square formation!” Menz commanded. We backed up to a wall and the Moa’s moved to form a perimeter, with the bodyguards behind them and me in the middle.
I closed my eyes and focused the device, through it I could feel each one of the bodyguards. A sergeant was slashed through the leg and I directed my energy toward him, his wound closed and he resumed fighting. Acid spit burned another soldier’s chest, I pushed energy to her, eased the pain, then reversed the damage, she would live. This was so much harder without Remballa. Another soldier was bit on the throat, he’s dying, there was nothing I could do, so I ease his pain and let him go. The rate of fire slowed, had we pushed them back?
I opened my eyes to see the Moa’s beams incinerate the last few attackers. I was drained. I wasn’t a combat Lorist, Remballa and I were relief workers, used in disasters and outbreaks, not this.
I felt a surge of that familiar connection, Remballa’s energy pulsed through me. “She’s coming,” I shouted.
“What?” Dax Menz head whipped around to look at me.
“I don’t know,” I said pointing at a hall exit, “she’s coming, from that direction.”
“More Infested!” Shouted a soldier who motioned to the same exit.
A mess of figures shambled forth. These were different, bigger and slower. I could feel my sister in there somehow, it was so strong. The Moas opened fire. I wanted to tell them to stop but how could I? I felt plasma beams burn the creatures and then I felt Remballa heal them. Why? Multiple connections now, I felt her many times over, it didn’t make sense, until it did; she was those things, all of them. They took our fire and kept coming. I felt her, no them, shudder as bullets ripped through flesh and then as flesh was made new again. They were Lorist Infested, my sister the healer, remade as monster and here to kill us.
More rushed in. I felt the healing in them too. I focused just as the first wave broke through our lines. Moas were toppled, soldiers were tackled, teeth tore flesh. I was overwhelmed, I couldn’t control it, their pain fed back through me and I collapsed. Something’s jaws latched onto my foot. Infection pulsed into my veins.
And then I felt it, a new presence, another healer? I’d felt this before, was it, it couldn’t be… I opened my eyes only to be blinded by an intense flash, followed by a crash, like a thousand crystal goblets all being shattered at once. All went silent, the Infested were dead. I felt nothing now.
My eyes readjusted. I was surrounded by bodies. I saw something run away, a streak of silver and gold. It shot straight up the cavern wall and out into the sunshine above.
I didn’t have time to think, I took a breath and a wave of pain surged through my entire body. The Infestation had already taken my leg, soon it would claim the rest of my body. I didn’t care, my sister was gone, this was my time.
A shadow cast itself over me. I looked up. It was Menz, alive, he stared down without speaking and then unsheathed his massive combat blade and raised it high above his head.
“Menz wait,” I mumbled, “I’m sorry.”
With sudden and sure force his blade sliced down and through me. I contorted in with the pain.
His hands grabbed my shoulders, “Heal yourself!”
The adrenaline must have struck at that moment because I bolted up, still stunned, he had cut the infected leg clean off.
“Damnit Ontella,” Menz was shaking me hard now. “Heal yourself!”
Instinct took over, I snapped into focus and sent all the energy I had left through the device and down to the wound. I stopped the bleeding and neutralized the remaining toxin. I nearly passed out, I had nothing left.
Menz hoisted me onto his shoulder, “I’m taking us back to the shuttle,” and he began walk out of there. A few scattered survivors and robots pulled themselves along behind us.
As we approached safety I coughed and whispered to Menz, “I can feel her again.”
“She’s dead.”
“Yes, she is.”
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Its literally a plague of course you don't want it, its incredibly short sighted to think this is supposed to be a permanent thing. I am sure there will be a quest to cleanse your frame or something, removing the cyst and making that frame immune. Or maybe a gear item that you build in bundles of 30 where you have to inoculate yourself in a mission. It will be annoying, and they'll improve the cyst nonsense later, right now its atrocious, but this isn't permanent
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3 hours ago, wolfking2k said:
I for one love the infested charger. It just needs a new skeleton, and sounds. Second I see this as one step closer to getting a zanuka pet. Now for things that could also be changed/added. I believe multiple breeds of the charger would be beneficial. Possibly have some semblance of ancient abilities like healer, disruptor, and the like.
It makes the proper noises in mission, just on the ship its buggy.
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I think a lot of people seem to not understand how the infested work, they don't just all look the same because this is a video game, literally every charger is the same. If the infested take over a corpus ship, there are still chargers there, because the hives, which look like the cyst btw, grow them. They take organic and inorganic matter and form the chargers that they need. You can see this happen directly with the boiler who generates several chargers without any need to infest a grineer. (The things they fire are called seed pods)
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There is nothing that says they are emotionless.
While they are at it let us pet Ordis.
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It did not use kubrow DNA it used to kubrow bio matter
All Chargers that are grown are grown to the template, just read some of the infested codex entries particularly the ancients
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You can't pet a spectre, you don't get to name a spectre, you can't pick your colors on a spectre.
And you are quite right that is a kawaii little critter. I'd be satisfied with one of those too. None of these points are going to stop me from enjoying the charger.
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I consider uglyness to be a justifiable complaint about it, but recycling the model is literally what people asked for.
I don't think the infested have pure forms, if you look at Phorid, he is generated whenever there is enough biomass laying around, complete with grineer armor.
Look at the boiler, it launches pods that grow into a bunch of random infested from biomass, they are following templates, that's why they are all identical, the infestation created the first charger from a grineer, so all following chargers will also be grineer.
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This game makes no sense, they were fulfilling a common request, for specifically a charger. Now I agree about the animations as you can see in the OP.
I wont be against a model overhaul unless they change it from being a charger, I don't want an infested kubrow, I want a charger. Now, there is a solution to this. There are several models for the kubrow, why not let the charger be one of the models for the minihel? Get the one ya don't want? Don't worry I am sure you have 162 other cysts growing right now.
"Why is the Helminth Charger a grineer" or How I learned to read lore and stop worrying.
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by TheChaotic1
I have provided evidence for why I think this, I've been over this a few times in this thread, gonna edit the main post later today.
English isn't a literal language, think and feel are pretty interchangeable, I am not saying I can feel it in my bones, I am saying that what we know about infested has lead me to this conclusion