Cibyllae
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Posts posted by Cibyllae
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On 2019-04-12 at 1:08 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:
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On 2019-04-11 at 8:21 AM, Cibyllae said:Its fine man, you're jaded because you couldn't get her to work, and I'm jaded because I could, no sense in rehashing this old drawn out argument.
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On 2019-04-11 at 7:32 AM, Cibyllae said:
Just revert her back to 2.0, and her complexity will balance her out as not everyone will understand how to take advantage of her 2.0 math.
On 2019-04-11 at 7:59 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:The complexity of Saryn's old abilities wasn't a hindrance because of people not understanding them, it was a hindrance because of the bad math that applied to everything there and the arguments it caused.
On 2019-04-11 at 8:21 AM, Cibyllae said:Edit: Its fine man, you're jaded because you couldn't get her to work, and I'm jaded because I could, no sense in rehashing this old drawn out argument.
On 2019-04-11 at 9:25 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:I could get her to work, I loved the fact that she worked for me and I, too, acted like a bit of a stuck-up butt-hat to people that clearly didn't get her (although I did wait until they'd proved that, rather than just assuming like you did).
On 2019-04-11 at 9:35 AM, Cibyllae said:Oh, I had no clue you knew how to use her, what was your favorite build with her?
22 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:Originally it was min-duration Miasma... but that only worked for 1.0 ^^
No, I was a melee-tank Molt spammer with old Naramon Invisibility. Molt would draw them in, Lash would buff my melee up and spread Spores, everything was half-health and getting Slash procs, plus crit-scaling was a thing at the time too, and if I ever needed a quick out, I used Miasma for the stun rather than the damage. The second I had that Naramon node maxed, that was it... I was long-run crit-scaling my Saryn and Banshee to all kinds of levels.
When Naramon got nerfed to remove its invisibility function I moved on to the one that, surprisingly, still works with new Saryn, 128% Duration, 130% Efficiency, 265% Range and 110% Strength with Regenerative Molt. It's a general build that does everything I need out of it, but if I want to pick up higher content now (like ESO) I do switch to the Strength build which currently goes with 155% Duration, 90% Efficiency, 190% Range and 202% Strength. With the new Umbral Forma I may switch her to an Umbral Strength build to make more use of that at less problems to my Efficiency.
The 100% chance for Spores to proc Corrosive and the slightly longer Duration really helps with that latter build, since you cast Spores only once, and scale to higher damage, while you can cast Lash less often and mitigate some of the energy costing despite the lower efficiency, and if I'm in a squad I'll use Contagion Cloud to turn choke points into no-go zones ^^
What about you?
19 hours ago, Cibyllae said:oh, so you never really had a build centered around a primary weapon? Just melee?
8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:I hate the flamethrowers, I thought they were lazy when they first became the 'meta' with her, and I could genuinely do better with any other weapon when running any frame, even with Saryn they just weren't worth it to me. Beam weapons were terrible up until the Synoid Gammacor (then they nerfed that), and then they got buffed after these changes to make them okay again, but even then and even after the release of the Wraith version... no, I just don't like them.
I've only shifted back to using Primary and Secondary weapons with her now that the melee switching has been buffed so that I can use either a gun or melee depending on the actual positioning rather than based on how much time I have.
My current is a Riven-boosted Staticor, which has that fantastic targetted AoE rather than a beam, large damage, and lots of status too. (I also use that with my Umbral Jetstream Zephyr, since even the fully charged projectile can hit anything I tell it to.)
If I had to choose a Primary to use with her... The Torid is still a strong contender, while the Mutalist Cernos has the Toxin projectile on it and leaves gas clouds too... Eh, I might stick Arcane Momentum on her and use the Rubico Prime though, the things you can do with that are fun.
No mention of the one weapon that actually made her work. Confirmed you didn't understand how to user her. Constantly having people like you who think they understand things when they don't is killing this game. Its people like you who are going to drive this game into the ground. The fact that you thought I was talking about flamethrowers is laughable, and now you've outed yourself. You can't go back, its confirmed you didn't know how to use 2.0 Saryn.. 3.0 Saryn is trash, because she's easy to use. Because people like you wanted her to be easy to use, because people like you think they understand things, when in reality, they don't.
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3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:
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oh, so you never really had a build centered around a primary weapon? Just melee?
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9 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:
I could get her to work, I loved the fact that she worked for me
Oh, I had no clue you knew how to use her, what was your favorite build with her?
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25 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:
Spores spreading Toxin procs
Spores were never suppose to spread Toxin procs, they created their own unique Toxin proc when popped on all affected enemies.
25 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:She is better now, and don't you dare try to put her back into that broken state she was before.
It's sad that the "broken" state she was in is more fun than her "better" state now. Mindlessly rotating through abilities isn't fun, and that's what she is now. You know what is fun? Having spores constantly pop on a grineer for 100000 viral damage because you understand how her math works.
Edit: Its fine man, you're jaded because you couldn't get her to work, and I'm jaded because I could, no sense in rehashing this old drawn out argument.
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3 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:
What about no.
That was the real bore spore days putting the spore on the molt and shooting it. There is no complexity, just a properly built Daikyu and a lot of camp.
No, revert her to everything but that molt spam please, that was not how you played 2.0.
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1 minute ago, Birdframe_Prime said:
Oh how I laughed...
In their history, DE's number of actual reverts are few (count on your fingers level of few), exclusively done in the very next hotfix (like the Ogris changes last week), and never put Warframe powers back where they were before.
They'll iterate, they'll make a change on the changed power to rebalance it under the new settings, but if they've made an ability different and don't immediately put it back? It's not going back to what it was. Only ever moving on to be something else, maybe even a completely new ability, that's been known.
Buddy you actually think I have faith in DE? I know I'm screaming into a void, they should still revert her though.
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probably means current armor not 43% of max armor
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Just revert her back to 2.0, and her complexity will balance her out as not everyone will understand how to take advantage of her 2.0 math.
If you want to lower her damage take away miasma's ability to spread spores for full range on death by any damage when enemies are effected by miasma, and make miasma cost 100 energy again.
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57 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:
Then don't argue. You were the one to quote me first, and no part of your initial one-line response had anything deep or meaningful to say, which is why it got debunked with a similar one-liner.
Careful there mate your fedora is showing.
57 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:Why is this silly? Tell me, if you're interested in having a nuanced discussion, why limit yourself to such a knee-jerky, one-dimensional reply? What is it about my suggestion that you find wrong?
Why is this:
5 hours ago, Teridax68 said:As such, not only would I personally advocate to give frames health regen in pretty much the same amounts as shield regen, I'd say remove shields entirely, and maybe even armor, and instead give us pure health bars that regenerate out of combat, with overshield effects still granting non-regenerating bonus health or the like.
silly?
You're advocating for the removal of health not shields, that's why this is silly. For all the big words you use, you're understanding of this game is quite low. I expect better of you, because you can do better. Take your time to read over the wiki, and really get a complete understanding of the objects and assets of Warframe, that way you don't trip over yourself and say silly things like this. You can do it, I believe in you :^)
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4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:
As such, not only would I personally advocate to give frames health regen in pretty much the same amounts as shield regen, I'd say remove shields entirely, and maybe even armor, and instead give us pure health bars that regenerate out of combat, with overshield effects still granting non-regenerating bonus health or the like.
Wait, you already made yourself look silly.
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14 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:
Or, alternatively, it makes for a worse game, loses players that could otherwise have become positive members of the community, and leaves an inherent dysfunction that constantly has to be papered over, itself lowering build diversity. The hypothesis that lack of health regen has only allowed some higher breed of player to become part of the game and its community is directly disproven by you.
I was looking forward to arguing with you but you just came straight out of the gate with the ad Hs. Now this is boring! Not cause you already lost, but because now this is so one-dimensional. I don't even know if I want to argue with you anymore.
edit: but I think I might have to make you look silly so you stop saying stupid bullS#&$.
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5 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:
"If I had to suffer, everyone else has to suffer too!"
exactly, it breeds better players, which means less complaining about non-issues on forums. Less clutter, and more focus on threads that actually matter.
edit: Do you think Sekiro needs an easy mode?
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4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:
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if we dealt with it back then, they can deal with it now.
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You're actually just wrong. Why? Because you don't know how slash procs work. How do slash procs work? First off, they scale with crit. What does that mean? It means if you hit for 100 dmg, your bleed proc does 35 damage. If you crit and do 200 dmg, your bleed proc does 70 dmg. Okay, let that sink in for a second. Not only do slash procs scale with crit, they ignore armor.
So no, her other ult was not in any way better or was going to be better. You would have spun around for 5 missions and been bored of the frame and gone back to frames that were actually affective. Please stop trying to take what little frames that are affective against high level content we have.
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There are too many weapons to have balance passed at, which is why rivens work well for weapons. It allows players to balance their own weapon so to speak. But allowing the players to balance warframes through rivens is a bad idea. And honestly, more stats is not a good way to go about balancing the core mechanic of a game, for many warframes they are simple being outclassed because their abilities don't do enough with one button press.
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50 minutes ago, InfestDylan said:
peterc3 You aren't even trying to understand my points and don't seem to understand why Warframe's current game design may be problematic. It's a waste of time to argue with you
You're new to the forums, Peterc has been discussing meta topics for a very long time and genuinely wants this game to be a better version of itself. The changes you are proposing either don't address the core issue of the problem, have been talked at length already, or turn Warframe into something it's not. No one is disagreeing that there are problems here. Your solutions are just not solutions to the problems we all agree exist. Why does it seem like no one cares? Because we've been screaming at DE for ages about things like enemy scaling, and they do nothing. Why? Because they prioritize new content first before fixing what they already have.
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I'm going to Rework your rework.
Your OP
SpoilerOn 2019-03-31 at 9:33 PM, DarkRuler2500 said:
With her rework Saryn‘s power reached to unknown heights, the spores would annihilate entire waves without the squad having to fire a single shot. It robbed allies of their opportunity to fight. What would happen? Either the player would go afk, he would leave at the next opportunity or he would run off into other areas of the map to have some fun on his own. Of course these scenarios are a bit exaggerated but should just serve to point out what Saryn‘s main issue is.
Saryn needs not a straight nerf but a proper redesign!
The team of Digital Extremes had quickly discovered that the original reworked Saryn was way too strong as her scaling broke all charts. Thus they limited the scaling but in return added a function to preserve some damage over time. Still, Saryn is by far the most potent damage frames currently in the game because it does not matter to limit the increase-gain if there is no limit to the top at all.
Do not get my wrong, I am a Saryn-player and I love the feeling of nuking the enemies but I am far away from just spamming Spores and Miasma as I enjoy the whole kit. So I would like to present a concept that would shift her damage properties to her other skills and it would also make her kit a bit less „nuking without thinking“, as right now one spore is easily sustained forever in a crowded area (e.g. Elite Sanctuary Onslaught).
Abilities
Please note that X is a variable, I use to show a number that ought to be determined by Digital Extremes as I am not perfectly sure about which values might be considered balanced.
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Contagion
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NEW: Instead of having limitless numbers the passive ability orb that now shows the damage cap will be reworked to a 0% to 100% orb. At zero percent it could look like a fossilized infested orb. And at 100% energy-coloured gas could emit from it.
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Spores
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CHANGE: Remove all damage from the ability but instead makes it a guaranteed corrosive proc at all times. Each successful proc will charge the Contagion passive by 1%.
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NEW: Allows the Spore to be casted on the Molt will induce a chemical reaction within the Molt. It will quickly deteriorate and then deal its original explosion damage to enemies in the area.
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NEW: Each time a spored enemy is killed by an attack while Toxic Lash was active, will grant a +5% bonus to the Contagion passive.
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Molt
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NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability efficiency is increased by 0,5%. So if you were to cast the Molt at 100% Contagion it would cost half. At the same time one third of the current points will be destroyed at that time.
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NEW: Damaging the Molt with Viral, Gas or Toxin damage will manually increase its maximum health points and thus the dealth damage upon explosion. It will not restore already lost health to its current health. Consider it as a stationary Antimatter Drop that you can charge and then either manually detonate, detonate by expiring or by bursing it with your spores.
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Toxic Lash
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NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability strength is increased by 1%. At 100% Contagion it would increase the toxin-enhancement by 100%. At the same time half your current points will be destroyed.
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NEW: Additionally to the already existing blocking-enhancement, Toxic Lash will also add a small toxin burst in a 5 meter area around Saryn whenever she succesfully blocks an attack. The toxin damage considered for the proc-calculation is based on the damage previously blocked.
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CHANGE: Contagion Cloud-augment should be slightly revisisted too. Instead of just creating clouds with flat toxin damage upon kill, the clouds should behave similar to Chroma‘s 2nd ability and destroy X% of enemy max life per second.
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Miasma
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NEW: For each % of Contagion the ability duration is increased by 2%. At 100% Contagion it would cause the Viral proc and the stun to last much longer. At the same time all of your current Contagion points will be destroyed.
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NEW: Enemies killed during Miasma‘s duration have a small change to burst similar to Acid Shells and deal X% of their maximum life to all enemies in their perimeter als viral damage.
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NEW: While Miasma lasts on an enemy any toxin, gas, corrosive or viral proc from others will not run out. Of course this does not apply to Miasma itself.
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NEW: Casting Miasma while Molt is out will first double the Molts current health/damage and then manually detonate her in 1,5x the normal radius.
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If you read till this point, thanks for reading. I would really love reading your feedback.
Greetings
DarkRulerMy Version of your Rework
SpoilerOn 2019-03-31 at 9:33 PM, DarkRuler2500 said:-
Contagion
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NEW: Contagion alters and enhances Saryn's abilities. Saryn has a Maximum of 100 Contagion stacks.
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Spores
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CHANGE: Spores tick for 50% of listed primary weapon damage, are able to critically strike, and have a guaranteed viral proc. Each successful proc will grant 1 Contagion stack. Critical Chance and Critical Damage are based off of primary weapon total values at the time Spores are cast.
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NEW: Each time a spored enemy is killed by Saryn, Saryn will gain 3 stacks of Contagion.
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Molt
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NEW: For each stack of Contagion the range of Molt's taunt and explosion damage is increased by 1% up to a maximum of 100%. Molt drains 3 Contagion stacks every 5 seconds. For every stack of Contagion drained, Molt's explosion damage increases by 1%, no maximum. Molt's damage is now calculated off of your weapon's total damage. This includes all buffs affecting your weapon at the time of Molt's explosion, including Toxic Lash. If Molt Explodes while Toxic Lash is active, Saryn loses all Contagion Stacks. For every enemy killed by Molt's explosion while Toxic Lash is active, Saryn gains 1 Contagion stack. Molt's explosion is able to critically strike. Critical Chance and Critical Damage are based off of your primary weapons total values at the time of Molt's explosion.
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NEW: Damaging Molt with Viral, Gas or Toxin damage will heal Molt for X% of its health. Every time an enemy is killed by Saryn while Toxic Lash is active, Molt gains a stack of Viral defense. Each stack of Viral Defense grants Molt 1% of innate damage reduction. Viral Defense lasts for 20 seconds, if Viral Defense is not refreshed, Molt loses 20 stacks of Viral Defense. Every time Molt gains one stack of Viral Defense, Viral Defense's duration is refreshed.
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Toxic Lash
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NEW: For each stack of Contagion Toxic Lash gains 20% toxin damage. At 100 Contagion stacks Toxic Lash is increased by 2000%. Every time Saryn kills an enemy with her primary, secondary, or melee weapon while Toxic Lash is active, Saryn loses 20 Contagion stacks. If Molt Explodes while Toxic Lash is active, Saryn loses all Contagion Stacks. For every enemy killed by Molt's explosion while Toxic Lash is active, Saryn gains 1 Contagion stack.
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NEW: Additionally to the already existing blocking-enhancement, Toxic Lash will also reflect Toxin Damage whenever she successfully blocks an attack. The toxin damage considered for the proc-calculation is based on the damage blocked. The proc chance of the damage reflected is equal to half of her block chance.
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Miasma
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NEW: For each stack of Contagion the proc chance of Miasma increases by 1%. Miasma now deals corrosive damage.
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NEW: While Miasma lasts on an enemy that is infected by Spores, all toxin damage is increased by 4x.
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2 hours ago, DrBorris said:
I mean, sure, that DR thing I suggested has its own issues and very well may not be the best solution. But if you want discuss that, then let's discuss what is actually wrong with the concept and not pull stuff out of our rears.
You're misunderstanding of code led you to believe an incorrect answer. Your lack of acceptance of that fact doesn't mean I'm pulling stuff out of my ass. I responded to what I wanted to have a conversation about, I didn't want to discuss your idea to make shields more durable. I wanted to address the impossibility of implementing your idea for only tenno shields. And I want to make it clear that it is an impossibility. Without creating a whole new health type, every benefit we get out of buffing shields, so do our enemies. That's not pulling stuff out of my ass, that's just a fact.
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On 2019-03-24 at 1:33 PM, DrBorris said:
I mean, but like, don't give the mechanic to Corpus? Why shouldn't I answer with the basic common-sense response?
Shield is a health type, all objects that use the Shield health type dip into the same code. The corpus shields function exactly the same way as tennno shields, because behind the scenes they are using the same code. It's like if you and I were pointing to the same object, if we were both pointing at a red square and you said, "now change it so that the square gives me damage reduction." Because I am also pointing at the square I also get damage reduction, any changes that benefit you, benefit me. In your head it may be a simple change but code wise it's not as straight as a path. You're proposing a whole new health type, a whole new class object that DE would have to test and make sure all other class objects interact with properly. This includes guns, abilities, damage types, etc, etc, etc. That's why you can't just say, "Don't give it to corpus."
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Zaws, same base range with better stats
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6 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:
Players who just want everything to be a Mesa. Press 4 to win.
If they actually said this I'm done with this game.
>DE makes content whose prerequisite is being braindead
>players ask for harder content
> DE : "No."
>Players then ask for better frames to do DE's meaningless content faster.
>DE: " W h Y i S eVeRyOnE aSkInG f O r d A m A g e fRaMeS ¿"
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15 hours ago, Ramflax said:
Im not saying the 4 needs to be fully charged just big enough to hit the whole group.
Yes you are right,
I just went and tested it the initial 40k on the bomb from a high level gunner was enough to cause large bleeding and then death.
This was definitely an aspect of Garuda that I did not really explore, probably due to thinking the orb would not benefit from seeking talons for some reason.
For all the hours I have on her, I would say its quite embarrassing to not really see that combo as a thing. And its definitely something to keep in mind, 10 meters is quite generous on the range of the explosion but im just not sold on how often I would make use of it. With my build and play style.
probably cause you don't do content where that kind of damage is necessary
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1 minute ago, Loza03 said:
Agreed in theory - but don't leave enemies out of the debate since fixing frames but not enemies is a path to misery. Enemy scaling is equally borked. Fortunately, Steve IS working on it.
Kind of. There's supposedly gonna be a trial run of Damage 3.0/modding 2.5 (changes to calculations like multishot) in Railjack, with the enemies and 'jacks themselves using these new calculations.
I mean we could go into the meta discussion that is scaling if you want to. Though you'd have to agree, if the point of my topic was a meta discussion about scaling people would just try to redirect me to the search bar.
Saryn [Mechanics Change]
in Warframes
Posted
that hardcore projection lmao