-CM-NineFingers
-
Posts
253 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by -CM-NineFingers
-
-
1 hour ago, Demon.King said:
It would be best to make the ability build up damage over time (ex: 0.5% per second, unaffected by duration mods, maybe capped at 10% for the sake of balance, would reach 10% after 20 seconds)(damage dealt when cataclysm collapses), so that negative duration limbo does not become a thing (The minimum duration one currently can reach is 15%, that would be 4.5 seconds cataclysm, still somewhat spammable if you want to kill units at the centre.)
That's why I suggest the damage buildup over time.
It would avoid negative duration builds, makes spamming useless, would not punish/rewards duration builds, and still allows a localised scaling nuke with a buildup.
Pretty much hits all complaints on cataclysm.
I don't like spammers, so I wouldnt have a problem if they removed the closing damage altogether and added an augment for the cataclysm that gave a 5% of the enemy EHP as damage per second when inside the cataclysm, so spammers would stop spamming, and normal limbo users wouldn't get their frame destroyed by the nerf train.
P.S.: Yes, that means everything that enters the cataclysm would die after 20 seconds, and if it was depending on power strength, it could go down to 8s or so on a str build. It's intentional, doesn't factor the level of the enemy, just kills it for being in the wrong dimension.
-
5 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:
First, a list of issues with the frame and a summary of him. Then, a list of proposed solutions.
1) A frame with his defensive capabilities should not have that much offensive potential. He does too much way to well. He is a jack of all trades, master of a few. He also scales infinitely both offensively and defensively, only 3 other frames do so: Ivara, Ash, and Wukong. Ivara and Ash can avoid taking damage through stealth and can abuse Covert Lethality. Wukong has Defy and can also abuse CL. The issue here is that Limbo can apply his infinitely scaling defensive capabilities to allies/objectives and his infinitely scaling offense is applied in a massive radius. Take away the scaling from his 4 and he is still top tier due to his defensive capabilities and the fact his 2 (stasis) allows status effects to last infinitely (been abusing slash proc based builds using that method). He also has amazing CC. Basically, his kit is overloaded.
2) In addition to the above, his energy regen is absurd. 2 energy per second in the rift and the 10 energy provided by enemy kills is too much in conjunction with the raw killing potential of his 4. You can either keep his 4 the same or take away the energy gain from kills to balance this.
3) In addition to his infinite scaling in both aspects of offense and defense and near infinite self sustaining capabilities, his abilities require no build up. For example, it takes time and/or teamwork to build damage for a comparable ability to Cataclysm; Equinox's Maim or Nova's 2. Limbo, however, can just press 4 twice quickly and he has wiped a room full of enemies from existence.
This is coming for the aspect of an endurance player, no matter what level the enemies are Limbo will destroy the infested without retaliation. He is able to prevent the Grineer from doing anything and kill them with slash procs that last infinitely via the use of his 2. His Cataclysm damage nullifier bubbles and absolutely wrecks the whole corpus faction. The only time a skilled Limbo player has a chance of dying is against the corrupted, and even then with Naramon school that chance of death goes away.
How would I go about fixing this? I'd do one or a combination of 4 things:
1) Remove the scaling damage from his 4 so his offensive potential isn't so insane.
2) Remove the energy gain from killing enemies to prevent Cataclysm spam.
3) Make his Cataclysm end prematurely/explode if more than X amount of enemies are inside of it. This would allow him to maintain his offensive potential at the cost of his defensive potential. It would be a trade off.
4) Do a combination of the above but give the old damage multiplier from his 3 back, but merge it with his Cataclysm so that while in the Rift/his Cataclysm is up his damage is given a multiplier of X
The infinite duration procs is a bug, don't get used to it, and don't use it as an argument. It's gonna get fixed.
You can't remove the defensive abilities of limbo, it's his core. limbo decides who should fight with him, how and when. trading defense for offense would literally kill limbo for 90% of players.
Removing the scaling damage is also nuts, he's currently, along with nidus and octavia, the only frames whose abilities scale with the enemy. All damage abilities should have at least some scaling factor on them to allow using them on every level, and stop forgetting about them past lvl 100. Scaling is a step on the right direction, not something to be nerfed.
And the energy regeneration is his signature ability, and necessary in a frame that can be so energy intensive. You would punish good players for spammers.
Don't take for granted naramon, zenurik, or the mods Limbo players have. We're discusing the frame here, not it's interactions with focus or weapons. If we did, every frame in the game would be seen as broken.
-
1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:
During a Nitain Alert mission (defense on Uranus) I had a Limbo in my squad who ran into the centre of the tileset, stepped into the Rift and AFKed for the entire mission, coming back on the last wave to do a sweep for dropped items. Limbo's ability to remain completely invincible for an indefinite amount of time is an effortless way for players to not participate in the mission, raise the difficulty for other players and take up a spot in place of a Tenno who would like to play the game.
I'm not saying Riftwalk should go back to being a Duration-based skill, but having some kind of check or caveat in place to prevent this behaviour would be greatly appreciated.
If someone wants or needs to afk, there's nothing able to stop them. Limbo or whatever, you can just find a safe spot and wait. Selfish people will leech regardless of frame. It's about as easy to find a safe spot in every map as it is to enter the rift.
-
4 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:
I understand people don't like Limbo spamming his Cataclysm. I'd like to make some suggestion changes just to give it kind of like more build up so Limbo doesn't spam it all the time but doesn't really change its effectiveness either.
Just limit his energy regeneration.
When Cataclysm's collapse kills enemies, Limbo loses 10 energy for ech killed enemy. So if he kills like 20 enemies with the collapse, he loses 200 energy and that's on top of the 100 energy he used to put Cataclysm up. The effect only kills as much enemies as his energy would allow. The values would of course be influenced by Power Efficiency mods. And its not uncommon for most Limbo builds to have like 600 energy anyway.
I mean, he can still gain 10 energy for killing enemies in the rift with his weapons but if its Cataclysm's collapse that kills them, he loses 10 energy instead of gaining it. So this way, the Limbo player needs to gather energy in between Limbombs instead of spamming it one after another.
I wouldn't mind that. That sounds like a play style where Limbo is powering up between nukes.
That would literally kill Limbo. Even with maxed efficiency, a Limbo would be able to use cataclysm every 13s, without being able to kill anything, and to kill 10 enemies it would need to wait over a minute. If you build him for range, the durations goes down quite significantly, making it hard to kill rifted enemies, thus making very hard for him to regain energy with his passive. And tell me what fully forma'd nuke, with a perfect build, takes 300 energy (225 at max efficiency) to kill 20 enemies regardless of the level. While the nukes will obliterate everything in mere seconds for about 50-150 energy, you're asking for Limbo to spend 300 energy to kill 20 enemies, don't matter the level (and two factions will always resist, grineer and orokin, thus making him nor worth using on half the starmap or past certain level). No, you can't punish a player for using their abilities efficiently. Think how would Banshee and Saryn work if they lose 5 energy per kill. Even 3. Impossible to use without a trinity, regardless of level and build. You can't be afraid to use your abilities. That would make Limbo cast Cataclysm, kill 40 infested and say "well, see you in 3 minutes and 20 seconds, since my duration is 6s and I have no time to kill them to gain energy. I could probably get outside the rift and gather orbs, but I'll get oneshooted, so I'm gonna make a sammich and wait this out".
Remember, when DE first explained how the rework would be, everyone jumped at a single statement: "When he reaches the 300 bullets limit, all his abilities shut down for a brief time". This was not implemented for the single reason that you can't punish someone for doing a good work.
-
I think most users would like to have a warning when they are in a cataclysm. Can't a counter be placed at the left of the health bar, just stating that you're currently in the rift? That would solve many problems when using him with pugs.
-
1 hour ago, ChameleonBro said:
Upon further investigation apparently it does restore your energy... Yeah Cataclysm will get nerfed. It isn't supposed to regen energy thoughm
Definitely shouldn't give you energy for kills on cataclysm deactivation, that's nuts. Fix that and it's a perfect ability otherwise.
Since I don't use cataclysm to deal damage, I never noticed it, tested it now.
Apologies for being wrong on other posts before this, to everyone, @Murkar included. Should have checked that first.
-
That would negate the core of the rework if he needs an ability to go to the rift. Or if you say as a door to be used by allies, It already has said door (rift tear when you dash)
-
1 minute ago, Murkar said:
I thought you were talking about a maim build...
Maim build doesn't deactivate the rest of his abilities. it still has good range and durationto slow them down or put them to sleep.
Unlike limbo, Equinox maim build works fine with rest, while limbo practically loses it's other 3 abilities
Nerf Equinox plz he too OP
-
Just now, (PS4)psycofang said:
Magnetize + gas lanka + sniper counter rips all factions to pieces.
building lanka right now, may try this. Thanks for sharing.
-
1 minute ago, Murkar said:
equinox, as in one of the squishiest frames in the entire game
Rest. AoE sleeping. plus you can slow enemies to near stasis levels.
-
4 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:
Maim, Magnetize, Peacemaker, Virulence are all abilities which deal heavy damage even in Sortie levels. The difference is that they take alot more effort that pressing 4 for 1 seconds and pressing it again. If Cataclysm required adequate build up to it's current Nuke level it should remain as is, however it's current iteration encourages and rewards mindless spam.
Yeah, until you have 0 energy and wait for it to refill sitting in the cataclysm doing nothing, am I right pal? Seriously, get it right, Limbo can either spam 4 (a single cast would do jackS#&$ past lvl 80 or against armored enemies) or keep a steady level of energy. Why does that make them broken?
Maim is not a nuke as is, it stores 100% of the life of killed enemies, and deals it at once. Go with a tigris or a CL dagger and the buildup is crazy short. Honestly never tried magnetize (but also never seen it in use on high levels, which makes me thing it doesn't work as well as you say it does) and virulence, used correctly, can be spammed into oblivion regardless of buildup. It can give you surplus energy. SURPLUS ENERGY. That's nuts. Nidus can spam and entangle enemies to an infinite level, while standing still and being immortal, he may take longer to kill them but will always prevail.
Mesa must build for duration and damage to be useful. Equinox for range and duration. virulence for strength and range (and says f*ck you to efficiency btw), and Limbo must be built for range and efficiency (and says f*ck you to strength). It doesn't require such a build up, and that's actually good, because that would make him unplayable. If you want to clean rooms, you need range for his 4, and that will make your duration go pretty low. On a frame with 4 timegated abilities, means he trades 3 abilities from his kit in exchange for a strong one.
-
1 minute ago, Murkar said:
so you are saying if they nerfed cataclysm damage limbo would be worthless?
ps using more words doesn't make you right
Do you even read, bro? okay, I don't have crayons here but I will try to explain it again. Cataclysm is, as of now, the only area damage ability capable of dealing with high level content. Does that mean it's OP? No.
Should the rest of area damage abilities scale with enemies too? hell yeah.
Cataclysm is a step in the right direction, an ability that you don't need to ignore past certain level, but can keep using on a long run, giving you utility at every level, making it worth using at high level and/or long runs.
If banshee dmg scaled with enemies, it would be useful on every level. Same with saryn. But no, we need buffs and whole teams around a single dps to make it usable up to lvl 100, while limbo can be used past that number (as long as enemies are not armored). Why is it something bad?
-
Just now, Murkar said:
scaling nuke*
And that is bad because...?
All should scale. Limbo should not be nerfed, all other abilities should get the damage lowered and added scaling.
So let's see, your point is, limbo must be nerfed to the ground because he's the only nuke in the game who can deal with higher level enemies?
Your kind is what's wrong with warframe, that's why we never get higher level content.
P.S.: The fact that your response was a two words statement without argumentation says enough, you don't know how any of this works.
-
1 minute ago, Murkar said:
its the room clears pay attention and learn how to read
So the problem is... he is a nuke? what happened now with the energy regen, it's no longer a problem? because your older posts point to that. You keep whining about how he is a nuke that auto refills. Make a logical argument wthout fallacies and changing the subject and come back.
-
@Murkar You can also prove me wrong. Go to bere alone, 4 rounds as usual. Try it and bring proof. Let's see that incredible energy regen nuke you're whining about.
-
Just now, Murkar said:
@-CM-Haardrale Uh heres a thought don't spam until you are out of energy, just wait till more show up or move to more enemies...
No, decide. You're complaining about a spamming limbo cause "he gets free energy all the time hurr durr". If you use cataclysm to nuke, you have to spam. If you spam, you don't get energy. Decide what you're crying for. He can either nuke a room full of enemies or regen energy. Not both.
-
2 hours ago, _Mr.Robot said:
if they plan to nerf him, then they shouldnt have even reworked him because that would have been time waste then.
as we know anything DE nerfs, becomes useless -> (hello telos boltace, secura lecta etc.)
a nerf will kill him and bring him back to the stage where he was before the rework.
there is no proper reason to nerf limbo.
we have infinite energy from trinity, we have zenurik, we have energize, we have 100% bloodrush red crit melee builds that 1-2 shot everything while we are invisible with naramon. we have covert lethality that will 1 shot lvl 1000 enemies ,we have unkillable wukong/chroma and perma cc vauban/rhino builds, we have equinox and saryn or banshee that clean everything within 40m in a few seconds, we have ember that only has to activate her 4 and run to extraction, we have riven mods for prime weapons with double crit stats and a negative magizine size stat etc. i could continue but my point is all these things shouldnt exist in a game if we start to talk about fairness and balance. but no1 complains about that because everyone benefits from a trinity that provides you with infinite energy so you can spam your skills and everyone likes to clean rooms full of enemies with a perma red crit melee weapon. but when it comes to a special warfame or weapon from that mostly only the user of the weapon/frame benefits, in this case its the limbo player, then people start to complain.
think about what is more important in a game, fairness or to have fun?Thanks for being reasonable
-
12 minutes ago, Murkar said:
1. You can be in the rift before casting cataclysm, when enemies enter the rift they are stunned by blast, and if you dodge afterwards it does not leave much time to get shot
2. Don't stand in harms way when casting, its not that hard
3. Saryn and Banshee cannot obliterate every enemy on high level missions with a nigh infinite energy innate return and their moves take time to set up
4. Saryn, Banshee, and Limbo all die in about one hit on anything higher than lvl80 but only one gets a costless instant way out of the battle (which I am fine with but not when there is a uber scaling nuke too)
5. I use him often on floods and sorties with a unmodded mk1 braton, mk1 kunai, and prisma skana just to further demonstrate how broken this is(I get between 50% and 90% of damage and kills)#nerflimbo
"nigh infinite energy innate return" directly contradicts what you're whining about, aka nuker limbo spamming cataclysm. Decide, is he spamming or always in the rift? Remeber that enemies killed by the cataclysm don't add 10 energy to your pool, as they technically die outside of it. He can nuke? sure. with a "nigh infinite energy innate return"? No way. You either nuke or wait in the rift til your energy is up again. Decide what you're talking about, cause a single cast will only get rid of cannon fodder, and even then, over lvl 80 grineer and orokin can give you a hard time. (specially with enemy enhancement sorties)
btw, I want a screenshot of your "unmodded mk1 braton, mk1 kunai, and prisma skana just to further demonstrate how broken this is"
I did a full sortie solo with an unmodded hydroid and mk1-furax <-- See that? that's not an argument, cause there's no proof. I want to see proof, don't cari if it is for or against my opinion. Proof is mandatory when you make those statements.
#GetYourFactsStraight
-
3 minutes ago, Murkar said:
Oh noes so your team mates have to kill a few enemies, you are soo right its not broken...
Enemies are dealt 200 / 300 / 400 / 500
Blast damage when inside the sphere's formation. When the Cataclysm collapses, enemies around its remaining area of effect are dealt damage, which is additionally based on 10% of the current health and shields of all enemies in the Rift.
and you would be right about the first cast thing if more enemies did not spawn. As long as you give a little time between casts for enemies to replenish and move to the densest enemy concentrations it will continue to steamroll the room with only a very small amount of stragglers that your teammates can easily deal with.
So roll afterwards and maybe don't use it in the middle of a bunch of heavy units... All other frames have to deal with more than .3 seconds of vulnerability
Maybe you just went to the simulacrum and tried it out, go into a real match where teammates can buff you(ie rhino) or debuff the enemies(ie nova) and face more than 20 enemies at a time and they keep spawning. Please go try it out.
I do. I do a lot. Cast time is 2s, if you want a decent build there's no room for natural talent. and in less than one second, any aura can kill limbo. Auras that tend to be from heavy units, that cataclysm won't kill. Try using a limbo on a grineer tileset, with and without CP. Then try it with a quake banshee, tell me who dies faster, limbo on banshee, and who gets more damage. Is she not broken? yeah, she's stationary, and she's also more durable than limbo, gives more damage and on a much bigger range. Limbo clears rooms, banshee and saryn clear maps, How nobody asks for their nerfs? The reality of this is, people who don't like Limbo and probably sold him long ago now see players dealing damage with him, get mad because they don't get the max damage at the end of mission and complain. They are used to this with banshee, mirage, nidus and saryn, even nova, but limbo? that's outrageous!
The "It's broken, nerf it to the ground so I can keep hating and overlooking him" mindset is the only problem here.
-
9 hours ago, Andrakax said:
Let me preface the following rant with this: I love Warframe and I love the updates and constant improvements DE makes to the game and I hope they keep it up! Thank you!!
Now for the rant: DAFUQ is Limbo? He's worse than the original Tonkor which killed and knocked back teammates. He is so annoying to have on your team! I don't play Limbo and I never will, just so that I don't have to torture my teammates...
The following is a list of reasons why limbo is a problem. While I have played since beta and have leveled all but a few items in the game, please read the following through the lens of a new player:
- I don't understand how his rift works. Sometimes I can kill in it and sometimes I can't. WHY?!?!?
-
It took me forever to find out that, if I roll, I can get out of the rift
- Wait, that's only true if I've been specifically placed in the rift, not if you are in a rift bubble
- There is no quick/easy way to know if I've been placed in the rift or if there is a rift bubble.
- Finally, I can loot in the rift!!
- I can't shoot into the rift bubble. This is very frustrating!
- Wait, I'm in the bubble, so is he, why are all my projectiles in a line and he's not dying???
- Ah, so in this last update, they made a rift tear that is left behind and I end up running into it sometimes WHEN I DON'T WANT TO!
- Can someone explain WHY I have to learn how Limbo works just so that I can play AROUND him???????!!!!!!
Frankly, Limbo is appalling. He is not intuitive, interruptive of my playing experience, and quite frustrating if you don't understand him, which would be every player who doesn't own him (I'm curious what THAT percentage is....). I'd love to see changes made so that I can disable Limbo's effects on me, or something. Not sure how that's even possible, but one can hope......
Please, I just want to play and kill...
What kind of nonses is this? OF COURSE you msut learn how other warframes work. It's not even difficult, a 2 minute video can teach you anything from any warframe. I main limbo, Don't spam cataclysm, don't abuse stasis, and never had a single complain from a teammate. At the same time, I don't care what other frames they will take, because this game is coop. That means, we must act accordingly to get the best of us. You can run around in the same area with 3 other tenno, that doesn't make you a team. Being able to interact and weave a good strategy and attack pattern makes you a part of the team.
It took you forever to learn you can roll out of the rift? That's your problem man, never been a secret. I always say it at the start of a mission.
Comign back to the "this is a co-op game" thing... You can't always do what you like. You want to shoot in the stasis? well, projectiles will only move when it's deactivated. If you see the limbo going melee, go melee inside the cataclysm. Same as when you see a Nyx doing absorb you should shoot her, or kill near a maiming equinox. It's called teamwork, and with a limbo it's even more important. Now, a good limbo would deactivate and recast stasis from time to time to allow projectiles to get to the enemies, but he can also not do it, have you tried asking?
You have someone on your team who can create an area where incoming enemy damage is literally 0, for as long as one minute (with 50% range reduction too). That's insanely useful in defenses, mobile defenses, excavations... OR he can deal nearly as much damage as a quake banshee with a different build (albeit that makes him more prone to get killed, since shutting cataclysm will unrift the Limbo and leave him defenseless against heavy units, who normally won't die from the cataclysm -bear in mind it scales of current enemy shield and health, armor not included, so each cast deals less damage-).
Limbo is not broken, it's a trade off. You can have an area where you and your teammates can rest and gain energy, while making normal enemies unable to harm you, but shooting inside that area won't work. It's the most powerful CC in game right now, like a vauban if bastille was made of indestructable, time gated Atlas walls.
P.S.: What's the point of whining about the rift tear? Oh, I ended inside the rift by accident, I'm gaining energy and I'm safe, I only have to press roll to get out, WHY IS LIFE SO HARD?!
-
50 minutes ago, jmthebigman said:
Making all content up to lvl 100 trivial and getting with ease 95% dmg done at sortie 3 defence missions says it should be brought down.
Mag would nuke corpus of enemy level with an old build. This nukes 2 infinitely and 1 up to high lvls anyway.
Im just being realistic over here.Show me where he trivialises orokin and grineer up to level 100. not just butchers and lancers, get something other than cannon fodder to show it. And of course, no using CP, since with CP even an ember can kill almost everything.
-
Okay, went and tested it myself. You can only nuke cannon fodder. Got 20 lvl100 ancient disruptors and nothing worked. Same with healers, bombards, heavy gunners, and everything besides cannon fodder. Get your S#&$ together guys, this is not OP, this just gets rid of cannon fodder. And most important, damage uses the CURRENT enemy hp and shields (armor doesn't get counted), not the TOTAL, which means if it couldn't kill something at first try, it won't kill it at second. It will deal less and less damage each time you use it.
TL;DR: Suggesting a nerf is ridiculous.
-
Limbo is now perfect as it is. You want high reach AoE damage that kills everything without armor (as long as there are no ancients or nullifiers)? build it. You want a high duration close range CC? Build it.
Limbo's gimmick was always traveling between dimensions and engaging just the enemies he could handle. OR, alternatively (you can't have both the range nuker and the tactical CC!) damage enemies in a massive range. I used a nuke limbo pre-rework that couldn't do S#&$ past venus. Now I find myself capable of dealing massive amounts of damage, to an Octavia/Mirage/Nidus/Banshee/Saryn level.
Question is, what's the problem with a new nuker added to the list? Grab nidus, stick some strength and range on it (cause Nidus can ditch efficiency like Limbo does with strength) and you will nuke everything, while being inmortal, and gaining energy at the same time. Why don't I see people complaining about him?
The only legit change you could do to the Cataclysm is make it deal 10% of total health (armor and shields included) of the enemy per second, individually. Everything non-friendly will die in 10 seconds. Happy now? Cause that would make him as broken as Every other nuker, and slower that Nova/Banshee/Octavia.
Seriously, if all you have to complain about is "He nukes too quickly DE nerf plz, my nuke is too slow now", you have no point at all. Scaling IS necessary. Now limbo is in the same box as other warframes, able to do long runs, instead of being in the dog house in the backyard.
-
On 23/9/2016 at 6:56 PM, Death_Master_ said:
Barro's treasure hunt:
Barro asks some help from tenno to find treasures in void. Mission type is endles.
Mission has initial phase(walk to position Barro marked on map, Barro follows you).
First pase of repeatable(Barro runs away healed and invincible and asks you to distract enemies): 5 min of survival(where mobs rus to you from everywhere nonstop but no life support needed) where you must kill some number of enemies, if kill more than setted (105/100 for example) additinal counts will be converted to ducats 5additional enemies=1ducat
After first phase there is small(15-20%) chance to get cosmetics or beakon or booster from barro's stock.
Secod phase: Protect Barro from a huge amount of heavies that will follow him to your location for 5 min.
After finishing second phase you have 50% cahnce to get one mod or weapon from barro's stock or 10*mob lvl ducats.
Each cycle number and level of enemies grow as Barro annoys them more and more.
If you succes 10 cycles(in a row in one mission) you will be granted special arcane that will protect you from magnetic procs(only procs, not damage) and null fields(at max level full protection granted).
They're looking for a new mission type, not a way to ease the grind. what you propose is absurd. so on a single round, on let's say, lvl 40, we get a 17.5% chance of a baro cosmetic or booster, a 50% chance of a really rare mod, 400 ducats or more and whatever drops on the mission? Absurd.Would you like a side dish of cheese with your cheese, sir?
[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread
in Warframes
Posted · Edited by -CM-Limbo
Never seen banshee take more than 20s to kill anything. not even 10s. Neither saryn. What would the problem be? he would take the same time to kill a lvl1 than a lvl 100, and it's way more than saryn or other frames need.
Specially given they have more range.