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About toyetic

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  1. Great. This rework didnt make him a first in slot pick or a meta pick in any mission type but made him good and synergistic within his own kit and thats what i feel most of us were asking for. There's some slight changes and tweaks that could be made but those are completely unnecessary. Pablo found a great direction to take him in and it makes me extremely happy
  2. "Elite enemies" as you put it are only immune to powers that directly deal damage and thats a minority as for the most part frames can still utilize abilities to do damage to boss enemies. Frames like chroma who is the defacto boss killer uses his abilities to kill them efficiently. His buffs also require upkeep and isnt something where you can just press an ability key and not worry about. As for frames like valkyr and invisibility frames like ivara, Valkyr's 4 comes with the caveat that you are stuck using her exalted melee. Her immortality is more than just immortality in this case. And before you say she can just shoot in her 4 that was a result of the (relatively) recent melee changes and for the 3+ years valkyr was in the game she couldn't do this so it's likely an unintended consequence that has yet to be properly dealt with rather than an intended feature. As for invisibility frames they use their forms of invisibility as an alternative means of survival considering they have less ehp at base than tanks in the game. These frames also have caveats to their invisibility. Ivara moves slow making it less efficient than using it only when necessary, Ash has a low duration of invisibility meaning it has more upkeep, and octavia not only has buffs that are given to her and teammates aside for invisibility but the invisibility has to be timed with a beat, granted with a song that spams notes this isn't hard to do but takes more effort than using wukongs current defy. Frames that can gain invisibility all have some sort of upkeep that is intended from allow them to just press a button and be functionally immortal aside from loki. And it should be noted loki is from a time when warframes weren't based around original interesting mechanics and along with a majority of the other older frames that are still good (like trinity) are likely to get some looks later down the line. Also saying these frames are gun and melee carriers due to the fact that they can't utilize abilities on mini bosses is false considering ash's 1, ivara's 4, and octavias 1 all do damage to bosses aside from eidolons. Valkyr could also damage bosses with her 4 AND has an attack speed buff. On top of all of that saying that a frame is a set and forget frame because they don't do damage to enemy bosses when 90% of gameplay is against actual enemies and not boss battles makes little sense. Yes he could. I fail to see how this disproves my point that wukong's current defy is a low interaction ability or how abilitys that have low interaction are bad. The thing wukong could do that valkyr cannot is be immortal while using a gun. Valkyr up until fairly recently was stuck using her exalted claws which while did good damage was not very efficient but was interactive and fun for many. Also if you want to take a look at things wukong did that valkyr could not thats a very short list, but switch the comparison and you see how wukong's kit as a whole was non intuitive even compared to a lackluster frame like valkyr. Valkyr has better movement, better buffs, and comparable damage and survivability. Wukong may beat valkyr in tankiness and maybe beats her in damage but as an all around frame valkyr is better. Once again these frames also have some interaction and upkeep with their tanky abilites. Rhino's scaling is dependent on the amount of damage he takes when activating iron skin. On top of that with his augment he has to actually interact with enemies by hitting them to build it up to insane levels. On top of that the iron skin will eventually run out and has to be refreshed. While this is comparable to wukong needing to refresh his defy to regain that amount of tankiness rhino needs to hit enemies and take damage again after refreshing to get his iron skin back up the level it was initially at. I'm not saying doing any of these things is hard but they do require some interaction and upkeep. As for nidus his tankiness comes from his ability to build up stacks. Even with your example of parasitic link not only can he not utilize that ability until he's hit enough enemies but he has to continue hitting enemies to be able to continue using the ability. Again i'm not saying this is a hard thing to do but undeniably takes interaction and upkeep. The logic of interaction is one of the things that drive DE's warframe reworks and creation. Anyone who plays the game could see this with wisps recent release. All of her abilities are good but utilizes together actively they become great. This shouldn't be news to anyone who's been playing for a while as there have been nerfs because they allowed for afk farming such as banshee's 4 augment nerf and embers 4 nerf. Frames that can go invisible aside from the one made in 2013 before the game had a true identity have some form of upkeep on their invisibility. Frames that are just as if not more tanky than wukong have some sort of upkeep on said tankiness. Interaction is and should be one of the driving reasons behind changes made to warframes as one of the few things almost all of the community can agree on is that afking and doing nothing in warframe is not interesting and lowers player retention
  3. Because it was A. not interactive - as they said in the workshop it was largely considered a set and forget ability where you could just press 2 and only worry about refreshing it maybe once or twice throughout the mission. Considering the rest of his kit was(or rather currently is) at best lackluster and at worst terrible this being his best ability meant you weren't playing an interesting warframe as much as you were playing a walking weapon. Which while some people found fun almost all can agree is a bad way to design a character. and B. Wasn't that good all things considered. Yes being immortal in warframe is ok but is far from great. Frames like pre rework zephyr could be almost as immortal as wukong and were considered just as bad. Immortality is almost always worse than a frame being given damage/cc/ or buffs. If you look at a lot of other frames that can be functionally immortal such as inaros rhino and nidus they're considered great because along with their tankiness they have the ability to cc/dps/or buff a team in some manner. The ability to tank is an after thought and isn't something that in the current state of warframe is all that important
  4. I come back and apparently im tied up having fun in someones basement... don't know whether to be happy or scared
  5. I now win this thread and will be accepting my prize
  6. Any progress/ideas you can share with us on the wukong rework or is it still to early to comment on
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