[Limbo needs a change ASAP]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CptCosmic said:

you can pick up loot in cataclysm

you are not restricted at all, you can line up your shots into headshots till the stasis projectile limit is reached and stasis breaks, with 3 players this can be done in no time

and finally, you can troll with other frames too, e.g. with frost you can put snow globes in front of players, hilarious if they use weapons with self damage, I guess it is now time to remove snow globe from game, right?

in short, l2p issue :)

It does restrict you!

And in ur playstyle even as limbo since cataclysm does everything that banish does twice but twice as good. Binding urself to the area where cataclysm is cast, since only in cataclysm you can pickup loot, that does not work when banished or entering the rift through riftdash protal.

Also while that is true, it relies on the limbo to recast stasis and since you have to recast it every few sec it will evnetually even become really annoying for limbo since he has to spamm press 2 all the time. So if you just leave stasis up you can headshot all you wont but stasis will only break after everyone got 20 lined up headshots since projectile cap takes some tiem to be hit, without those stasis breaking weapons, so you waste ammo and time overkilling an enemy with headshots. atleast this is the problem everyone is arguing about and this problem will always exist in any pub squad. So it restrics/ bounds everyone to the limbo in anticipation of recasting and so freeing those projcetiles you shot up.

It works as you described if you play with frineds on coms.

 

Thats exactly the thing i am trieng to bring across... stasis is not the problem at all... its only a problem together with the 250% range duration build that is used.  The area it affects in combo with cataclysm is huge and makes it frustrating, i blieve noone is crieng about a 10-15m cataclysm that has stasis up, since you can with easy move outside its range and start killing the hordes of enemies.

in short, tweak range and duration of cataclysm and banish, and fix all those issues concerning object interaction (failing hacks upon entering rift, not counting as standing on pads while inside the rift/cataclysm, not being able to interact with the mobile defense thing while cataclysm is around it)

 

[Limbo needs a change ASAP]

@dopey_opi what makes you think i didnt read it ?

I somehow believe that i analysed your text well enough.

You start ur comment quite well, state ur question and problem, try to give the whole situation around limbo but then it takes a tunr for the worse.

After the 2nd paragraph you get more and more afilliated with the theme and as such work urself up more and more. you stop giving any facts and just go on  and simply acuse limbo and limbo players.

Even worse you try to make every none limbo player look like a vicitim, which you didnt suceeded at all with. At least for 2/4 your examples giving you totally failed it saying your behavior might as well be the problem regarding the whole limbo problem that exists atm (it mainly is a teamplay problem... noone is willing to do sth for the team and everyone plays for himself, and if that is restricted in some way instead of being polite or comply for that one mission everyone starts ranting/ trolling, which in fact makes the game less enoyable for anyone and might as well promote the limbo to go and troll since he gets accused anyway)

If the last paragraph is not asking DE for justification on what reason they had to give limbo such a bad ability/kit like stasis that ruines the gameplay in general then i dont know, since you are clearly asking DE to state that they were in the wrong and did sth bad.

 

[Limbo needs a change ASAP]

8 hours ago, frenzy64 said:

Stasis needs to be changed so that allied projectiles don't freeze because of one simple problem that makes it annoying for both the limbo user and the allies: Certain weapons fill up stasis near instantly

I don't know every exact weapon but most beam weapons fill up the 300 projectile limit extremely fast and it ends the stasis which means it needs to be recast over and over again, so not only is it not fun for allies who just want to shoot people but limbo because allies constantly break his stasis. I would say the 2 changes that limbo need are to just allow allied projectiles to move in stasis and for nullifier bubbles to not instantly destroy his cataclysm since most people use range mods to try and capture as many people as possible in the stasis lock, resulting in often not even knowing where the nullifier is.

1. As far as i know contiousbeam and hitscan weapon dont work inside the rift with stasis activa atm, even after deactivating stasis no dmg is dealt by such weapons.

2. That should more or less be the playstyle anyway... since you unfreeze the projectiles of ur teammate and urself and so enable the primary and secondary weapon to kill again.

3. Like srsly ?.you cry about nullifiers destroying ur max range cataclysm instantly.  First: Those are nullifiers,are meant to be the bane of every warframe . Second: noone forces you to go 250% range... you can ADAPT to mission context and factions and not ask for missions and factions to adapt to ur 250% range playstyle so that you have to do even less. Really, really, really unreasonable and horrendously bad argument you bring up. 

4. The exact playstyle you try to make even better is the  reason why limbo is hated atm... since catching whole rooms inside Cataclysm is annoying for ur teammates atm since with stasis on its a huge area where projectiles dont work.

[Limbo needs a change ASAP]

1 hour ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Yeah.  How dare other players want to be able to shoot at stuff and have their primary and secondary actually work.  What a far-fetched concept for us, as players, to adhere to.  /s

You literally summed up the problem and ignored that many Limbos use this ability to troll games or, possibly with good intentions but because of the mechanics it becomes a trolling move. As to your comment about people who quit missions or simply play solo being "As bad or worse than Limbo" no, not even remotely.  I do it because I don't want to spend the time explaining to you, or any other Limbo user, that your kit ruins the enjoyment of the game for myself and I am perfectly capable of succeeding without you.  

 And what, why or how are the people who say "dont cry about resonanting quake banshe, saryn, ember, frost" or many other instantly clearing maps of enemies not restrict me in my playstyle... the arguemnts you can read are either "get gud, multforma ur builds min max everything and start the who can kill most race" or "go in high lvl mission"... Thats restrictiing me the same way probably even more the then "use melee" part from limbo.

Thats acutally even by far worse then limbo.. since what do u want to do ? go look for a spwan place and try to kill those enemies who spawn before the resonating quake banshee can kill them ?

Not every people enjoys high lvl missions.. the only poeple who do are minmaxed veterans who cheese every possible bit out of the game "loki prime" most versatile and probably simple strongest warframe (newst compition octavia) can be used for any content and any playstyle, or rhino prime... you wont see any not prime... since the players who enjoy this gameplay and style have 2000h at the very least into the game (that probably 1% of the playerbase)

The main playerbase sits in lvl 20-40.. since after lvl 40 most warframe abilities or even weapons stop oneshotting everything if its not mult formad or happen to be the meta weapon. 

so i get the option to go afk and not see 1 single enemiy, maybe collect loot after each round or leave the mission... 

Its just an example, that those statements are mainly biased without any major and/or reasonable point... and its just that biased, like evey opinion... and both sides probably dont want to accept.

And by the way... how can everyone use Everyone, All and such statements... if all and everyone would think its a problem we would have those limbo changes already happen (literarly everyone had a problem with nuke limbo... instantly changed) It just happens that those that feel the need to talk about this topic, are either super triggered by limbo (stasis) and probably hated limbo even before rework, or those that play limbo... and like limbo.

While i do like limbo i try to be as reasonable as possible when talking about this topic... i know possible problems, state why and how they are problems.. or maybe not problems as well, give ideas what can be changes, needs to be changed and so... 

But Somehow the only thing i read over and over again from most People who clearly representing the limbo hating faction, are total biased statements, that literarly can be summerized as "limbo is in a bad spot atm, to many options/ possible way to handicap the team" thats reasonable and understandable... 

The part saying "we are such poor beings.. we are left with no other option then intentional troll the limbo back, rant about it on forums, or leave the game" is just simply not needed, not helpful and neither constructiv, so basically its just ranting and crieng out loud.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

I do it because I don't want to spend the time explaining to you, or any other Limbo user, that your kit ruins the enjoyment of the game for myself and I am perfectly capable of succeeding without you.  

So pls  explain to me, why you dont just play with clanmates, friends, or even recruit ur squad if you dont want to spend the time to "communicate with squadmembers"

Or if u are perfetcly capable of succeeding without "limbo" then go solo? whats the problem ? since you dont seem to communicate with ur team anyway since its an annoyce for you to do so and you are capable of playing solo just do so... if you want farm or exp runs who cares about stasis... who cares about resonating quake... u are just there for exp and for ressource or long runs you should use recuit channel, clanchat or friends only to create ur squad anyway.

SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM ? I dont see it... atleast not as a big end of the world as some of you state it.

[Limbo needs a change ASAP]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

Best way I found to play with limbo when there is no communication is to have a small range on his 4th so I can freeze specific parts of the battlefield so I can take care of the enemies safely. 

Thats exactly how limbo should be played... controlling parts of the battlefield not the whole battlefield... problem is that he has way to much base range, which makes range + duration just too efficient and good.

If you look at 4 there are just many possible problems giving from what side you look at the ability.

With its long duration, long casting animation and huge size its clearly meant to be stationary used ability, but warframe is not a stationary game atall.. everything is running jumping moving around (space ninjas ftw) but you chain urself to a limited area, with less range you restricte urself even more

There are niche playstyles of limbo that are more mobile

For example: i use low range 60% and 80% duration to open small "rift Pockets" around enemies or use it in chokepoints. i can use stasis and primary weapons in combo without anyone having to be forced to melee. and also do good dmg with the added powerstrnegh and riftsurge.

--> More or same playstyle possible with low range max duration build and using banish, then standing inside the rift, useing riftsurge and banish to spread the rift from inside the rift-- > not as mobile as with 4, since if all enemiey killed or u want to move to an other place you need to leave rift and banish again.

--> Same playstyle also useable with low range max duration build with cataclysm... only useable at lvl over 30 since cataclysm will oneshot most enemies below lvl 30... second problem is that it uses more energy and takes more time (or the need of natural talent and so on)

other playstyle concerning cataclysm (mainly useable for mobile defense/ defense) low range max duration --> extremly strong at completing the mission goal... makes the live for limbo really hard, since his survivabilty is 0 outside the rift and since his cataclysm is stationar used on the defense target he has to either use banish, which needs him to be in the same plane of existnece to do so or just manmode and probably accept the fate that you might as well go afk in the 1person cataclysm and hide there for the rest of the mission.

 

The biggest problem i have is, i know many possible playstyle and way to do sth with limbo since as a stated before i main limbo  and even tried to do many differnt things and playstyle. The problem given is that DE never really said what the promoted playstyle of limbo is... and the Promoted Devstream Limbo Rework video showcasts a more or less total diffenrent limbo.

While Limbos most used build and playstyle, since its the most efficient and arguable the strongst (atleast for grineer and infested missions) from all the others build and playstyle, it is also the most boring and most restriciting playstyle for limbo and his teammates.

So whats the direction DE wanted Limbo to be ? Is Limbos playstyle intended as it is atm ? 

Cause from my aspect Limbos rework kinda seems not refined at all... banish and cataclysm do basically the same thing.. but only that cataclysm does every single aspect of banish better... it can be cast while inside the rift, it is a huge radial area not a rectangle (with not changing width).

Faster (banish casting time not reduced with natural talent and you have to count 2 riftdashes (in and out), that everything that cataclysm does with just 4,4 in 1,5 sec or so without having the annoying moving factor from riftdash)

Deals more dmg... in every aspect. double dmg on cast, cataclysm edge dmg is nuts (thats the thing that deals most of the dmg in longrange cataclysm) and scaling dmg on collapse of cataclysm. 

Riftsurge main purpose is to give limbo the time to recast cataclysm without anyone being able to shoot limbo or the defense target or anything. and it creats a nice banish interactions.

Stasis: since limbo dies... just dies... to eveything even more so since he does not have any sorce of target selct but only aoe now... they needed to give him some sort of either cc or defensive buff. And since stasis is really fun to use solo or cool for some "magic" tricks its probably the way he his now (he literarly needed survivability since banish wasnt useable in rift anymore + aoe and sth new and cool to promote him, all other abilites stayed the same more or less) --> i mean i really like it.. if its used for limbo himself not for rift in general... 2limbos in 1 team... cataclysm stasis for self cc whole squad

and btw i tried to play limbo with every defensive mod max and qt, since some people say he has good survivability.. if you play without stasis and dont lifestrike rage qt gimmick you will find urself downed almost instantly at any lvl enemies above 50. so much for the survivabilty

Riftdash: Also a gmmick to promote new limbo... only useable if you are heading to the rescua target or on the way to extract... any riftdash combat movements are impossible... and abolsute frustrating to use (also no reason anyone ever uses banish)

thats the kit just as it is... explained probably worse as it is and exaggerated but it gets to the point.

It feels like they wanted to make a rework but werent brave enough to go the full length... so they only gone halfway, maybe even less (1 didnt get changed at all besides dmg interaction (cataclysm), 1 got worse in every aspect (banish), to compensate that they added a nice and "interactive" part on the pure buff ability (riftsurge) and since they needed sth to promote , make him look fun/ more fun they added 2 gimmicks... both resolving around the reworked 2 as its old ability was pushed on roll and new ability gave him the surviabilty he needed and also give him more interactive abiliies (didnt think the projectile thing through... even shortly after the dev stream with the limbo rework, many warframe partnered streamers acutally mention that this might bring up huge problems inside the community if they bring that 1/1 into the game... they did bring it 1/1 into the game and it made huge problems)

And that all without actually fixing any major rift problems (hey you can carry mobile defensive and excavtor thingies inside the rift now, and can pick up loot (only in catalcysm not if banished or limbo rift dashes)... all the other old inability to interact with objects problems for which limbo was hated mainly before the rework stay as they were.

i am done ranting now... i mean do like rework limbo... doing the best to make limbo fun for myself.. and he is fun for me the way i play him.

Like i said biggest problem with limbo is that he can adapt to many playstyles, the best and most effecient is range + duration and since DE didnt tweak numbers aside from cataclysm dmg, it was probably to be exactly this. 

[Limbo needs a change ASAP]

2 hours ago, dopey_opi said:

I'm as stalwart an opponent of Stasis as it gets.  Unfortunately, we don't seem to be hearing much from DE about this very often repeated, very widely hated change made to Limbo.  I would really like to hear what they at least think of this.  Give us at least some idea of whether this is permanent.  That's going to be a decisive factor in how many players choose to respond to this problem.

And make no mistake, it's a problem.  It's a serious one.  From a community interaction perspective, the level of toxicity on both sides of the argument is high.  Limbos are asserting that they have a right to use their abilities - and I get this, to an extent.  You wouldn't bring a Nova and then never touch any abilities, or an Ivara, or a Rhino - or any frame.  The varying differences in 'tankyness', e.g. raw survivability stats, all play a part but ultimately the character and utility of the frame are defined by the abilities.  On the other side you have a wide variety of players who are asserting that Limbo's ability use  - his Stasis in particular - is interfering or outright stopping their gameplay.  It can interfere with other frames' abilities (a recurring problem I have is with charging antimatter drops when Limbo decides it's time for everyone to go melee only).  And of course, the hated stopping of our guns, bows, etc. from working.

We've all seen how this has affected the feedback forums.  New threads almost every day.  Some raging against how ridiculous Limbo makes missions, others helpfully suggesting changes that would make Limbo a team player rather than a nuisance and a tool used for griefing.  And we've all seen these threads devolve, too.  Into this.  Vague ad hominems on each other.  Thinly veiled or 'special charactered' out swear words.  And it's the same argument, every time.  'We wanna use our weapons' say players.  'Too bad' say Limbos.  'This is making us angry' say players.  'It's helping' say Limbos.  That's what it boils down to.  Rinse, wash, repeat.  And as the argument stalls, it leads players to form a number of conclusions on either side.

Some of the Limbos make claims, mostly of the sort that can't really be substantiated, that they're judicious in the use of their abilities.  It's never immediately apparent if they're telling the truth.  However, the evidence - namely that these issue keeps coming up, everywhere, from the forums to offsite communities, to region chat, to varying discords, and everywhere in between - suggests that either most of them are being outright dishonest.  That this claim is the talk, but that the actual behavior we keep raising in these threads is the walk.  The only people who seem to be making claims that these 'good limbos' exist are actually... limbo players.  We rarely hear of this happening from anyone else.

And the people that are reacting to Limbo behavior?  We tend to go into four camps.  One, we just play everything solo or in strictly organized squads.  That's great if you've got a massive pile of highly forma'd gear, you're capable of solo'ing sorties and willing to go through the trouble of farming prime gear for ducats.  If you've got a solid group of friends you can play with, that's on when you're on.  That wants to do what you want to do.  Circle the wagons, shut out the problem through proactive avoidance.  Then you have people who play pugs anyway, but they keep a wary eye on the loadouts of their squadmates.  If a Limbo appears, they simply quit.  Depending on what the mission is - level, enemy faction, mission type - and their own gear and how well it's developed, they may solo it.  They may just simply find another pug group, with the hope that the next group won't contain a Limbo.  Maybe they'll take to recruiting and get a squad together, explicitly advertising that Limbos are not permitted.  This is more of a reactive avoidant approach to the problem.

Then you have players who accept that they may run into a Limbo.  They plan their loadout accordingly, including a Pox or Staticor as their secondary.  Maybe taking Supra Vandal as primary.  They try to adjust their loadout in such a way that if the problem occurs during the mission - a Limbo shows up - they have the tools at their disposal to neutralize the threat through overwhelming stasis with projectiles.  This is an adaptive, adversarial response, not unlike planning our loadouts to handle Sortie conditions or bosses.  You know, threats.  Things that make things harder.  Not easier.  And then you have people who just divest themselves from it, mentally.  Let the Limbo do his thing.  Nothing for them to do, might as well go brush their teeth, long as they get their reward, who cares.  This isn't acceptance, this is resignation.  This is a common result among newer players who are bullied by limbo griefers when they ask the Limbo to stop.  They lack the social connections and the weapons/hardware to solo everything or only play with friends - what choice do they have?

It seems that all four major response classes have one thing in common: an implicit understanding that the Limbo is a problem,  Viewing it terms of cause and effect like this easily clears up the misconception that Limbo is 'helping'.  It pulverizes the weak lie that these Limbo players are trying to 'play nicely' and to be unobtrusive.  None of the responses that we see - and we can clearly see it, there are many threads about it - would make any sense if the Limbo was actually perceived as helpful.  If the behavior that actually occurs matched the statements of Limbo's defenders.  Perception is everything.  Say somehow I gain my neighbor's keys and lock him out of his house, and tell him I'm helping him, anyone can clearly see that I'm not helping him at all.  I can make huge amounts of excuses.  Blow enormous amounts of hot air.  Ultimately all I'm doing is justifying my own forced imposition of my will onto someone else, whether they like it or not.  It is morally indefensible.  My neighbor would probably see it as an act of aggression, of messing with him.  Limbo locking up all our weapons is exactly that - and in the context of a cooperative video game it falls directly into the category of griefing and trolling.  The excuses made in the aftermath in defense of this behavior are outright, blatant lies.  Talk the talk, walk the walk.  So with that metaphor in mind - who gave me the keys to my neighbor's house?

That's why I want to hear from DE about this.  I am not going to listen to any more liars spewing their garbage about how they're 'helping'.  You're not, and you know that.  These laughable anecdotes about Limbos saving a mission from certain failure with Stasis - give me a break.  You've said your piece.  Nothing you say jives with reality.  Your own behavior consistently and overwhelmingly contradicts your claims, it's all meaningless talk.  I want to hear from DE.  I want them to give some signal, whatever that may be, of acknowledgement - and whether they admit a certainly level of culpability in this or not.  I would understand and accept whatever answer that might be - why?  And what now?  And make my decisions about how to personally handle the limbo menace from there.

pls !stop!crieng!

it feels like you take the whole limbo restricting your gameplay thing WAAY to serious and  personal.

You basically ask DE for a justification on how they could do such a horrendous act as to restrict you (a random player) in the gameplay of their game. And if they are it they probably should throw an apology directed towards you, so that you can sleep better at night. 

I mean while limbo has problems.... i main limbo and commented on every possible limbo change/ limbo problems thread those last weeks and it seems the people who complain most of the time are narrowminded as hell. All they do is cry about stasis... just stasis.. the goddamn aoe cc that only downsight is stopping projectiles.

Could you please try to think about the whole situation.. that maybe a 45m cataclysm for 60sec with stasis under effect is the problem not stasis itself. That Limbo can nearly sabotage any mission or part of a playable content that uses object interaction ?. And how the hell are people crieing about not being able to use primary or secondary... if with banish or 4,3,4 not even melee is an option and thats even on a much bigger area since 3 adds 15m radial banish to the max range range cataclysm.

And please how can you say limbo and even limbo players or trolling, having bad intentions, when you literarly state 2 out of the 4 groups outside the limbo player base that are are as bad as limbo is descriped... just that they are not playing limbo but their behavior is atlast as bad... and i can say most of the limbo is not intentional doing it or even more so has to do it since he insta dies in any mission over lvl 40... with qt you just stagger urself to death.

I mean you are the sort of people that should be ingored by DE, your comment has little to no value, you ask DE for a justification and while you are at it you dont even try to give any possible constructive and helpful information or ideas for DE

The information you state is: Limbo Stasis restrics me, thats toxic gameplay.

 Look De like 100 different people have commented on those threads and 50people are haters and 50 people are lovers. But the lovers are wrong and lie, we haters only state facts, so we are  right.

 DE tell me you #*($%%@ up with limbo and apologize to me so i can feel important (cause i am important)

 

[Limbo needs a change ASAP]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Had 2 Limbos in sortie 3 today with Sargus Ruk, was forced to quit after what felt like 10 minutes. I had no clue what was happening and no one including the 2 Limbos was doing any damage. Limbo needs to change.

Thats just a problem with limbo / rift interactions if there are more then 1 source (more then 1 limbo) inside the team.

As far as i could conduct, each limbo somehow casts their own but also the other limbo affecting spell.

Stasis: 2 layers of stasis up, both have to recast stasis for the effect to cancel, since if only 1 deactives it, 1 is still in effect)

Riftsurge: dont know if its fixed, but some patches (shortly after limbo rework) it bugged the game if both limbos casted 4,3,4 making some enemies invunerable (didnt take dmg inside the rift, didnt take dmg outside the rift)

Cataclysm: Havent tested this again, but some time ago (around the catacylsm spamm time) it was like this: if you have 2 cataclysm same size, same area, both would get detroyed upon recasting cataclysm by either of the limbos, if someone goes - range and a other + range and you cast both cataclysm in the same are, it doesnt matter if the limbo with the smaller cataclysm recasts cataclysm since it only affects his own, if the limbo with the bigger cataclysm range recasts it, it destroys also the smaller cataclysm inside the bigger one.

Havent seen to many missions with multiple limbos, since most stopped playing him after his nuke was nerfed... so some problems might have been fixed already (i am pretty sure of the stasis interaction thought, like 99%)

 

[Limbo needs a change ASAP]

19 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Why is it necessary to have the drawbacks and negative effects of the Rift be enforced on other players, due to mistakes or bad play from the Limbo player? Limbo's abilities by design are the cause of all the frustrations because they alone enable players' troll capabilities to skyrocket. Take away that annoying aspect of his abilities and we can all play nice, instead of going around in circles blaming it on players who we or DE have no control over.

What are those annoying aspects of his abilities you mention ? do you have any suggestions how they could fix those problems whithout taking the whole other place of existence /rift "master" theme away ?

I for example have also some issuses with limbo (even thought i play limbo alot, some things are just trolling, most of the time sadly without intentional doing so just not thinking about the effect it has for the teammates)

Rift (Mechanic) -> not able to interact with consoles or hacks and so on while inside rift --> enables limbo to "troll" 

 Fix : simple fix it(there are already demension ingoring traps, so cant be that hard to had those interactions) !!

2nd Rift (Mechanic): teammates not being able to attack enemies inside rift (besides abilities---> only works for high dps caster/ability heavy frames well)

Fix : Let channeling hit banished/ riftbound targets (drains energy from the warframe so it wouldnt be a to far fetched idea)

Stasis: people who cry about this are just *beep*, at best its an inconvience --> problem is not stasis but the range of Cataclysm + duration of catalcysm and stasis making it uneccesary hard to stay outside of the stasis/projcetile stopped area

Fix : decrease range from cataclysm (therfore no or slower declining range over time), decrease stasis cooldowm by a huge margin or making it toggleable (each enemy affected costs more energy --> so you want to kill the targets affects by stasis since it lowers the energy drain.

Stasis 2nd problem/bug: Hitscan/ contious beam weapons dont hit/deal dmg when used in the rift while stasis is in effect, even after stasis is deactivtaed.

Fix: Again just fix it --> problem came after the additonal range on hitscan and contious beam weapons while under stasis effect hotfix.

Riftsurge: Many Problems !!

While it works probably was inented to be used in combination with banish (also kinda a problem since super huge range, 90m without any need for line of sight) banish, riftdash, riftsurge, banish, enableing to banish while staying inside the rift using the radial banish from riftsurge upon leaving rift. ---> take enourmus amount of effort and time, while it creates same effect as casting 4 once

4-3-4 combo enabling to banish whole roooms without any means for teammates to deal dmg since no cataclysm is up.

Fix: either: 1 suggestion: less range on banish and cataclysm,

2: suggestion (more a whole rework): change banish ,examples: singletarget, small cone, only able to be cast on enemies outside of the rift (casting banish on enemies inside the rift radial/ cone area (what ever fits better) banishes  the enmies around the target

additional change riftsurge either buff for team --> loading teamates/weapons up with riftenergy to enable interdimensional dmg (less if other dimensions (augment would counter that dmg reduction as you get more dmg and just be a buff (additional dmg for players inside the rift).This wouldnt enable players inside the rift to shoot targets outside the rift. Cast/ Ability would work like rhino buff.

Or make it a debuff that effects the enmies (as it is now) that enables them to take dmg from both dimensions  disregading the dimension the player is in. Ability would work as it does now: only enemies inside the rift in a set distance around limbo are effectd, for ne enemies entering the  rift it has to be recast --> Basically means you cant really deal dmg to enemies in the normal plane of existence but other way around. But since Riftsurge as of now jumps to a target nearby (doesnt have to be inside the rift (bug ? no probleme make it a feature) you are able to kill those targets while inside the rift

Example: Cataclysm, Riftsurge, as you kill the enemies affected by riftsurge it jumps to enmies outside the rift which enables you to shoot them while staying inside cataclysm.

 

I believe these would more or less fix all existent problems with limbo, without pushing him away from the rift theme/mechanic.  

This is all based upon my opinions and thought about limbo, if you think it wouldnt resolve limbos problem or push him too much away from the playstyle and theme he offers now pls feel free to say so. I would appriciate it thought if its not just "limbo sucks, troll champ" or the "limbo is fine, no problem with him whatsoever with his kit" comment as its not constructive and already stated by probably 10 different people inside this thread :)

Also sry for my bad english, as it is not my first language. I hope it is still understandable.

 

[Limbo needs a re-re-work]

The biggest issue i see with limbos survivability is that he literarly in any higher content missions dies 1hit (i play with qt vitality max). While he is more or less invunerable in the rift (as long as noone else is in the rift and stasis was not forgotten to cast) given that he has to leave rift to interact with objects, or has to leave the rift to use banish.

Now to the real nightmare (corpus and corrupted --> nullifiers). If the enemies have  reached sortie lvl and a nullifier destroys ur active cataclysm you will just find urself instantly dead (you are not in the rift, enemies are not in the rift (only if you did cast riftsurge, but all enemies that are engulfed in the bubble are being cast out of the rift anyway so it doesnt help much)

If you try to be sneaky/clever and try to avoid this disaster before it happens, you will still most of the time find urself dead while trieng to avoid it. The problem is if you just not happen to use miter for instant bubble pop, you either die shooting bubble down (the drone is somehow always behind the bubble so you still hit the bubbel most of the times). and while you are shooting the bubble the enemies shot you, which doesnt end well for limbo.

So the best way is to be a man and jump into the bubble urself... if there happen to be enemies around the nullifiier you will see ur self stagger once (instant qt proc/effect) and prob dead shortly after.

On 8.6.2017 at 5:55 PM, IzzyFrozen said:

He's a fantastic solo frame. All you need is a bit of patience, and that's the one thing Limbo gives you in spades! At around 250 duration, you can have a stasis/cataclysm that last roughly 78s, and you can get 2 energy per second and not take damage while doing so! And that's not counting any enemy kills in there. Zenurik further augments that return. With a maxed streamline, cat and stasis only cost ~105 together, so you can recoop that cost. As for what kind of missions he's good for solo, Sabotage (He can pop cat around the reactor and it will break the targets on the reactor quickly, then rift walk to victory), Defense, Mobile defense, Excavation and Kuva missions (Stasis/Cat around the target, melee everything around.), Exterminate (Stasis/Cat again. It takes patience, he's not going to do it like Excal, but he'll doing without taking damage!) and even Spy (Rift walking doesn't trip lasers. Shade or a kubrow can make him go invisible and be a limited-but-faster Ivara.) That's not even mentioning rescues, where he can banish the target and you can just walk to victory again.

Let me put it like this, if you happen to add range on ur duration build, and use stasis in cataclysm or cataclysm + riftsurge + cataclysm, you will find urself playing solo 99% of the time.

While its the strongest and most efficient build and way to play limbo (also this build kinda only works for grineer and infested, even worse for corpus since nullfiiers will destroy cataclysm faster since its bigger), it is also the most annoying playstyle for your teammates... huge cataclysm with long duration = huge area where everyone is forced to melle and 4-3-4 combo meaning that noone besides you can do anything (dream for ember and equinox and saryn thought)

While i would descripe Limbos playstyle as methodical and ability (casting) heavy, i dont think there is any major reason to make the casting speed soooooooooooooo slow, even with natural talent, which doesnt even reduce banish casting animation (whats this banish ? and why does limbo only have 3 abilities?), makes limbos casting speed barly endurable. His abilites combo execution just seems way, waaay to slow and clunky...

even more with his riftdash... oh my god whats this awfull mechanic ? it basicially cc you for like 1 sec and even worse you are moving a set distance... this makes micro management or any fast paced dash in or dash out playstyle somewhat impossible... and its a nightmare for spy missions, since somehow u are able to perform interactions in the riftdash animation (while you cant perfom any other actions) which if it happens to be spy, makes you fail the hack, since you instantly interrupt the hack and so happen to fail it since you are still moving (same problem as with slide, interaction with console if you run nezha or any +slide- frictions mods). Also i am not quite sure how the rift dash thing works (at what time of the animation are you inside the rift which means invunable to things outside the rift? cause it seems to happen more then often that while i riftdash in or out the rift it seems the enemies can deal dmg to me over the whole dash animations ( example: i dash into rift and then while i am inside the rift i am instantly downed after the animation of riftdash ends. --> even worse since he doesnt have much base surviveability)

Yes Limbos abilities, playstyle needs patience and proper execution... if you want to have fun playing around with your abilites it will probably take some time, which is all fine and ok as it is fun if you happen to like such playstyle.

for example: stasis, banish, riftdash, riftsurge, (banish) then shoot some rounds into the enemies, stasis, stasis

The problem is that this is probably only executealbe in solo or in high lvl content since abilites dont oneshot anymore. Next problem is that just pressing 2,4,3 with max range duration builds gets the same scenario, deals more dmg (cataclysm deals double the banish dmg and has the dmg on the cataclysm edge) and all that probably even 2 sec faster while it only has benifts. (besides teammates hating you for having cataclysm stasis and riftsurge up at the same time, forcing them to try and run outside ur cataclysm range, have to use melee or abilities)

I believe there are many problems/downsides for such a kit... its only proper executable in solo missions and even restricts and hinders your squad. 

So the question is, while such a kit in theory sound really usefull and fun but in reality its mainly 2 out of 4 spells that see a major use and 3 of the 4 ability are restricting teammates, does it count as a good, wellthought kit?  to me it does not. 

And this is without even stating all the other problems his kit and the rift mechanic have --> the ability to troll and annoy is huge with limbo (not even speaking about intentional trolling or annoying someone) For example that hacks fail if a player is entering the rift (banish, cataclysm) while already in the hack and that players standing on pads dont count as standing on them why they are inside the rift.

As to what has to be changed would be the last part i mentioned (failing hacks and so)

And tweak the base numbers of each ability: banish less range, faster casting animation. stasis toggelable with added drain per enemy but low base cost&drain. cataclysm less range, and less/slower declining range overtime

or maybe change all abilites a little --> banish is useless and doesnt see any major use at all, stasis +cataclysm restrics other people to use their primary and secondary, riftsurge cataclysm interaction is to efficient if used correctly, but also makes frustrating rooms full of invunerable enemies.

Examples and ideas for possible changes/reworks are many to be found, but realistically speaking only tweaks or maybe 1 or 2 small changes will happen. And since they are working on so many things atm i dont see anything happen to limbo before tennocon. 

[Limbo is fun to play as, but not fun to play with.]

i can say i am really happy with these rework suggestions, as some of these possilbe options are more or less what i had already suggested as limbo rework.

while i and probably every player who uses limbo loves stasis and its projectile interaction, even with alerting the team of stasis being in use, many people just dislike the "forcing them to play a different playstyle part it has" and so everyone who hates on stasis being troll, will still hate on stasis and since it is mainly stasis + cataclysm combo this is not entirly fixed. It is simplyfied for the teammates to hear/see when stasis is cast in effect thought, this would help atleast a bit.

Questions: would it be possible to change cataclysm stasis interaction?

                 Would there be a reason to change cataclysm (maybe) ? (besides it absolute useless augement interaction)

Suggestion--> lower range but no declining range or lower range, delicing range over time ? but augement that enable to feed the cataclysm with killed enemies inside ( for 2nd suggestion --> countering the decreasing range, maybe making it possible to achieve an additional 25-50% range 

Reasoning: i see the biggest problem in the huge range/duration combination cataclysm can achieve... being able to engulf whole rooms or smaller defense maps with said builds making it unable to "hide" from it.

 

 

3 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

4. Problem- Cataclysm disables hacking and pulls hacking allies out hacking. 

Solution- 

• If you're hacking you're not pulled out of hacking by cataclysm, that's just trollish and kinda rude
• Cataclysm banishes consoles/vaults/other hack-able items allowing you to hack in the rift.

isnt that a general problem of rift thought ? i believe banish cancels hacks the same way Cataclysm does. and as i believe it would be easy to let cataclysm banish consoles/vaults etc into the rift, how would the banish interaction work? if it banishes and the target is not in the rift he cant use any consoles.

So probably the most easy way to fix it without adding any further problems would just make so thats interdimensional.. i mean some traps are, why cant those aswell be useable in both planes ---> would need some tweaks so it doesnt get too op since limbo could do all of those without any risk just stay inside the rift. 

Suggestion: as long as any action is perforemd (hack, standing on pads and so) limbo takes dmg (reduced dmg --> more or less same mechanic as suggested for enemies) also counts for teammates or anyone inside the rift performing such an interaction with an object

3 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

2. Problem-If you don't have a warframe with suitable damage abilities, you can't kill enemies in the rift from the normal plane. This is probably one of the biggest grievances I've encountered in both being a Limbo in a squad hearing teammates feedback and also playing along side other Limbos.

Solution- Multiple possibilities to solve this issue

• Allow enemies in the rift to be damage from the normal plane but at reduced damage
• Channeled melee strikes damage rift bound targets- Since your melee is channeling your warframe energy, they should be able to hit Rift targets like abilities can.
• Targets under Rift Surge can be hit by both planes

not multiple possibilites.... i believe it has to be this exact combination of changes.

Melee enabling anyone to kill enemies with weapons (problem again since it focus around melee same as stasis --> so people will probably also hate on it but atleast it gives an reasonable solution

combine ur first and thrid point given together as it would promote being in the rift to kill enemies, even more so if the augement would benefit the whole team (as it should)

question : would this be an additional effect of riftsurg (still working as it does atm with the riftsurge transfer on kill and radial banish upon leaving the rift) or would  it replace them ?

To balance this, wouldnt it either require to be toggelable with energy drain over time and each enemy affected also effects the amount that is being drained. Other possibility would be to enable enmies to deal dmg to people on either plane of existence as well (maybe affected by powerstrengh: more powerstrnegh = less dmg the enemies are able to deal across the planes of existence while team dmg is further pushed towards the 100% )

If this wouldnt have any downside, it kinda would make the whole rift plane thing either stupid overpowerd or completly destroy it since it more or less makes the whole theme less relevant... if ability is active all the time anyway/ or even passive effect, besides the rift being some effects and written information wouldnt it be the same as normal plane ? 

-->interactions possible in cataclsm... dmg on enemies over rift/normal plane possilbe --> banish/cataclysm just a debuff area that deals dmg and enables stasis to be used on said enemies (probably not finding the fitting words to describe what i am trieng to bring across... since basically they are already just that...)

So much towards theneccesary parts to make limbo more teamfriendly.

Now to the banish suggestions:

4 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

3. Problem- Banish being AoE banishes both friend and foe in a single cast. Many times I've end up accidentally banishing teammates because they were nearby to targets i've wanted. In unbanishing them from the rift i also unbanish other banish targets near them. Repeat ad nauseam.

Solution- Various Options

• Casting Banish on an ally makes banish only allies, casting it on an enemy banishes only enemies.
• Have the option of single target casting

not a problem but inconvience, since banished allies can roll to get out of rift and sometime (augment+squad) its also nice to be able to heal with only having to cast into the general direction

additional problem you state is fixed with the riftsurge (as it works now) since it radial banishes enemies back inside the rift.

While single target casting would be nice, wouldnt it in general be useless ? maybe useable if singel target banish is able to cast on enmies in different planes of existence ( possible to spread rift with riftsurge banish combo.

upon changing riftsurge wouldnt that require to change banish aswell or push some of riftsurge old elements on banish ? 

--> either pushing riftsurge radial banish onto augment, or making it just unable to banish enemies inside the rift (in any normal situation, you wouldnt want to do that anyway.... you have stasis to make urself comfortable, and the new riftsurge to enable the team to kill the enemies.

these are just opinions from someone (me) who for some reason dislikes nearly everything about banish (its cluncky --> cast animation not reducable, with riftdash to kill enemies and stasis activation its a proper self cc for like 3sec; its chaotic --> huge area... somewhat wierd area 10m wide 90 lenght with max range without requiring line of sight; AND WHY DOES IT DEAL DMG ? give it the knockdown mechanic without dealing dmg but give it a effect over time effect (doesnt has to be dmg, exp: contiunly reducing armor) sth like hostile eviroment (same but different probelem exists for Cataclysm on this aspect... enemies up to lvl 30 are still instatnly killed without any powerstrnegh mods)

These are my opinions concering banish as i think banish should be the versatile, fast and mobile option to the contrast of cataclysm (big, stationary, long cast animation) but the reality atm is that its just a plain downgrade... with the only positive thing being no real energy cost at all.

[Why does limbo get to dictate how I have to play]

Did anyone of you try to communicate with any teammates on a polite and friendly base ? Giving the attitude most state towards limbo in their comments i cant believe that. I bet either they instantly leave or even worse instantly start bashing the limbo and try to push the limbo to leave. Which is funny since all this does is promote the limbo player to troll you cause why not ? you were instantly being a $&*^ towards him.

Giving the point that i play limbo more then often... and even in public games without much hate or a negative expierence for both sides. I just ask in the beginning if anyone mind if i use stasis in cataclysm, must of the time people somehow dont mind. If someone just happens to dislike it i wont use it (or he has happend to leave already anyway)... ill just banish a small group of enemies and have my fun with limbos abilities (i believe its way more fun to play limbo with banish riftsurge stasis instead of cataclysm and go afk style). Its funny though since somehow a few people hate this even more then stasis since they are unable to instakill the small group i just banished.

Sure the best way and probably only way to play around with limbos kit is done in any grineer or infested mission solo... since giving his "combo" (stasis, banish, riftdash riftsurge, banish riftsurge, and so on) takes multiple seconds to complete without having dealt any (major) dmg at all... so in any pub squad (normal mission content) probably any dps ability frame which just happens to be in every pub has killed the enemies either with or before you could rift dash to kill the banished targets.

as I already stated, i dont use range duration limbo in most missions to  have a 40m cataclysm with stasis in affect around a 2m mobile defense target since it its all but necessary.. and i also dont use 4,3,4 in any normal content missions... only if it happens to be a pub sortie and there it seems that limbo if he is used in correct sitatuion is appriciated... atleast by most of the inexpierenced and not minmaxed player base.

Adding to this statement its kinda funny how most of the people that rage at limbo and limbos abitlities and are those to instantly leave mission upon incountering a limbo are veteran players. Most new players dont even mind stasis or that its disabling their ability to shoot since many newer player like ability spam or the beloved atterax slide attack spamm anyway.

And before anyone goes into bashing me for playing limbo, instead of repeating that limbo is annoying in 3 different threads where everyone just says "limbo= no freedom for teammates, we want freedom" try to think a few minutes how limbo could stay limbo without having his annoying aspects and start to give constructive critic not just "leave" or limbo sucks noone should play limbo.. but thats probably of noones concern inside this thread since most would just love if de just deleted limbo.

[Perspetive on future limbo change]

On 3.6.2017 at 7:11 PM, nameomnz said:

Rift mechanic: Enemy that affected by warframe's power will be pull into the rift if the caster is in the rift. So you can have any frame that provide really large CC helping you banish enemies

to clerify: every warframes cc or dmg would instanty banish every affected target into the rift ? wouldnt that make the teammates also reliant on limbo ? since they wont be able to dmg the enemies anymore, only with abilities which most of the time isnt really effective in any later game content. And if they would want to deal dmg they have to sit with limbo together inside the cataclysm.

 

On 3.6.2017 at 7:11 PM, nameomnz said:

-Optional/Additional: Augment Instread of pausing enemy's movement, Limbo will turns invisible leaving the decoy to draw enemy fire.(additional: teammate that enter the rift while stasis is active will also be invisible.

an augment that totally reworks the skill ? thats not how most augments work... as you decriped the augemtn its loki decoy and invis... but for the whole team --> giving ur rift surge changes dealing more dmg and the stealth multipliers from having 24/7 stealth limbos dmg would kinda get out of control... even more so the teams dmg would get absolutly out of control.

 

On 3.6.2017 at 7:11 PM, nameomnz said:

Rift Surge: Use nekros's treatment: Make Rift Surge a toggle ability. With this you don't have to keep resurging enemy, Will consume energy/enemy(Maximum 50 energy comsume if many enemies has been surged at once and affected by efficientcy).

-Bug?:Killed enemies are suppose to explode and tranfer it's charge to a nearby enemy. But it's seem to not work for me or It's very inconsistence becasue I see surged enemy that is on material plane. I think the range should be buff to 10m.

-Change: Rift Torrent instread of buff only limbo's damage It will debuff enemy to take more damage the more enemies in the rift. Or share the buff to his teammate.

-Optional/Change: Rift Torrent will make enemy recieve x3 damage base on power strength.

Toggleable would really makes limbos playstyle way more fluent since its kinda annoying to have to recast 3 every few seconds, so i am totally down for this

To be fair i dont really understand when it should deal dmg or not... but since its flat 300 impact dmg that doesnt scale with powerstrengh after lvl 30 enemies armor negotation the dmg anyway.

i believe the "explode" you mention is the radial banish "impact dmg procs the knockdown" and deals the 300dmg.. if you kill the enemies affected by rift surge they neither radial banish, nor transfer the banish and riftsurge, they only transfer the riftsurge... this is what i could conduct from testing a bit around and this is also the way its descriped... problem giving that riftsurge on not banished enemies is absolutly uselss. (dont fully understood the description from riftsurge augemnt... does limbo and riftsurges enemies have to be inside the rift to count towards the dmg amp, or only limbo?)

On 3.6.2017 at 7:11 PM, nameomnz said:

Cataclysm: may not need change. but the other idea is invert the cataclysm's collapsing functionality make it smaller at first and then expand further until collapse.

as this would totally favor his augement atm making it possible to increase the range further and further, since it would get more easy to kill the enemies with further progressing range increase overtime.

few questions to this: is the range capped ? to say that intitial range start at 10m and ends at 40m over the duration of the time --> would mean even with augment max range is 40... even worse if the max range is at end of duration since duration takes more time to end under augemnt it would slowdown the progress of the rift growth

if the intial range is affected by rangemods and the growing range /max range with powerduration (which would more less make sense --> nova 4 mechanic) it would enable to rift to expand givng to hard cap since augement.

 

Its a good rework idea, besides the "optional" augment for stasis as i dont think this would fit limbo much as an ability

[Limbo Stasis is troll level over 9000]

first of all you lack the imagination not me. but  ill glaldy oblige to help you extend it.

for example: banish 10m wide 90m long.. that in itslelf is already a huge area, now you press 3 enter rift, banish again... every enemy radial banishes you press 3 again you press 1 again... if you do so on the outer enemies it spreads nearly as fast as with 4,3,4 combo... and it doesnt change at all with continous 4,3,4 combo after doing it a few times with staying inside the rift and continously spamming 3 it will continoue to spread with the radial banish upon leaving the rift, which will automatically happen since the banish is bound to a duration

You cannot be shot outside the rift... cause rift.... you cannot be shot inside the rift cause stasis... if the ability to spread rift is not a problem at all like you said and can be easily dealt with, then just do so... run to the other side of ur map and play alone.. will get problematic to do so if the limbo just happens to dislike and follows you u around, since you probably did already offend the limbo player the moment you see him inside ur game.

The point you bring in all ur comments is that ur beloved chroma cant make use of his vex armor since enemies are under cc... so you basically cry out towards any cc ? i mean if rhino cc stomp and runs around ur chroma wont take dmg as well.. same goes for bastille vauban spamm... thats the 1 single reason for cc, it hinders the enemy of attacking !! the only way for ur chroma is do run as far as away from any source of possible cc and basicalle enjoy urself as you get hit... only chroma does enjoy getting hit thought.

All I manage to see is that you try as hard as possible to give arguments about limbo being toxic, bad, not usefull and harmfull for the team

And again you repeat urself and every 2nd comment in this thread about limbo forcing people to play to his rules or force them to break stasis. I say he is harmfull towards the team in inexpierenced hands, or if he just happens to have the main focus on trolling his teammates. 

How long did you think about limbos playstyle and survivabilty when you made that suggestion ? even more so that his old rift surge still kinda is in place with his augment, just that it is  not a flat buff but aquired from having multiple enemies inside the rift and affected by riftsurge.

did you take a sec to read about the suggestions i made considering limbos kit ? probably not since this whole thing going on between us is that you hate limbo and count all his negatives points...while i do the opposite since i like limbo and try to defend him from overaccusation and people mindlessly bashing and hating on limbo without giving any suggestion. And if Suggestions are states atleast make them reasonable and think about them more then a few sec so that it doesnt interfere too much with limbos playstyle and enables him to be a less "annoying" teammate to have in the team, so that everyone gets to enjoy themselfs and the playstyle their respective warframe (loadout combination) promotes.

[Limbo Stasis is troll level over 9000]

8 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

When X player chooses to attack an enemy on the same rift everything goes as normal, BUT when the said player decides to attack an enemy outside his current rift he will give the target let say charger for example a rift mark. Now lets take a clooser look what this buff does.

Each buff is number coded enemies attacked by X players are buffed now with the rift mark and are able to damage the said player and the attacking player is able to damage the enemies normally without any rift restriction the only expectation is the cataclysm border. Mobs affected by player X's rift mark are colored with his energy color and can only damage him, not the other squad members.

The buff refreshes itself every time player X pulls the trigger or makes a melee attack (skills are not affected). Once the player stops attacking a counter starts and after 10 sec the targeted enemies lose their rift mark and are unable to damage the player, while the player gets a 5 sec debuff till he can proceed again to use the rift mark.

This seems to be an interesting suggestion to the whole unable to dmg enemies outside ur plane problem

As far i as my opinion goes i would like to push this towards his 3 more or less it looks like a more refined version of the riftsurge rework suggestion i just did.

13 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Now for my stasis suggestion, i think you misunderstood me.

As I said, stasis now only affects limbo. It no longer stops the bullets of his squadmates, but still stops the enemies in their tracks.

I dont think i missunderstood you concerning this matter.

it stasis enemies as it does atm. it does not stop projectiles from other people, only from limbo himself... which as long as there is no positive effect for limbo resulting from his porjoctiles being stopped, i believe it kinda handicaps the limbo while his teammates get a huge bonus, since they not only have enemies that are stunned, but also can attack enemies inside the rift via the rift mark mechanic you suggested... making it even less likely to limbo killing things... and making him have to go melee as well... the other problem i can think is if limbo goes and recast stasis once in a while since he wants to have fun with the stunned projectiles, the teammates might get suprised by enmies randomly starting too shot at them... which probably results in the team forcing limbo to melee and just let stasis up all the time since it give them only positive effects.

[Limbo Stasis is troll level over 9000]

To put some input down for limbo fixes and reworks:

Rift -- >Minor tweaks towards not interrupting hacks if they are already started upon entering the rift, same for other possible interactions like pads in trials or lor and so on.

Rift Dash --> lower animation time (shorter range leaped and able to cast banish in rift dash animation)

Banish --> way less range (its ~90m max range), create a portal infront of limbo for the duration of banish infront of limbo

Stasis --> Fix hitbox, contiousbeam weapons. make it a slow that works with powerstrengh but goes up to 100% (for example, start with 50%, with 200powerstrnegh you get 100% which technically is the time freeze stasis atm, no projectile freeze (maybe augement that gives only limbos projectiles the slow/ freeze thing but has a positive effect towards it --> bullets that hit after being afftected by stasis enable the enemies get dmg by sources in both planes of existence.

Rift Surge --> optimal: complete rework /enemies affected by it take dmg from both planes of existence (less dmg from the other realm and additional dmg from the rift realm and can only be cast if the enemy is in the rift) Casting banish on riftsurged enemies while they are inside the rift will consume the riftsurge and a) radial banish as it is now (preferable for the limbo) or b) deal additional dmg/ or have somesort of penality for the enemy (slow, amor shred, many things possible as what the debuff should do (preferable for the team since enemies are in the normal plane of existence and have some sort of  debuff applied)

 Cataclysm: No real need for a change but would maybe make it more fun, but no need at all since the 4,3,4 combo putting everything insde the rift while no warframe is in would be fixed upon riftsurge rework. general tweak into giving it less range but no declining range overtime

 

Also interesting suggestions i read:

Banish: different interaction of tap (single target) and holding it making it aoe with cast area (like hydroids 1);

Stasis: affected enmies affect either energy or duration of the ability (my additional touch on it: make it a toggleable ability with a max duration upon reaching that duration it cancels and addtional each enemy affected affects the energy drained per second --> negative on keeping stasis up and would promote reactivating it consistently since after the projectiles hit and kill enemies the drain would be lower again) --> no fix for all the timefreeze haters but would still tune stasis down by a huge margin

Rift Surge: just read often that augment is nice but itself needs a complete rework... so maybe change it back to prerework rift surge

Cataclysm: some suggested a Magnitzie like cataclysm, so fixed oround 1 target thats has a cataclysm around it.. possible to be cast on multiple target (like mags ability)

--> my idea to push it more into sth else then copying a other frames ability...make it a cataclysm wich is centered around limbo (and moves with him) with no declining range over time (would make his augment absolutly perfect).

 

I truly believe that to some extend these abitlites would let limbo remain limbo and let him play out his methodical playstyle while on the other side would fix many problems that exist at the moment with rift, stasis, riftsurge.. as i am a limbo lover this kit would probably make him to "op" since this would be a basic upgrade on every aspect of his kit... probably have other think of the downgrades that has to come with the abilites hence making him viable but not the single and only choice that can master ever aspect of the game --> i believe the people inside this thread are the right people to be asked for downgrading limbos abilites 

[Limbo Stasis is troll level over 9000]

23 hours ago, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

And to your previous question to me; no, I never found Cataclysm, Rift Surge, or Banish to be a problem compared to Stasis. In Cataclysm I can be shot if Stasis isn't up, meaning my Vex Armor as a Chroma will have it's function still. I can still build energy from taking damage. If Cataclysm does get in the way, I can exit it. However, enemies banished to the Rift under Stasis? I am essentially screwed and in high level content I can't fall back on a melee weapon that doesn't scale well into late games (I use many for fun) and would have to actually rely on cheese weapons at this point because, again, I as a Chroma user primarily am made essentially useless because of the nature of one ability in how it works with the Rift. So are other frames that I have previous mentioned.

you cant be shot if i press 4-3-4 or just banish in a 90m radius once... the whole map is inside the rift doing so, without having no other one be able to enter the rift... so the only way you can deal dmg in any way possible is only through ur warframes abilities... with some warframes, mainly cc or utility based you cant do anything at all... now rethink ur statement that stasis is more troll and worse then that mechanic in its own.

23 hours ago, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

On top of this, beam weapons are rendered ineffective because of Limbo. You literally can not use beam weapons around him because of Stasis. You will deal absolutely no damage. Another thing to be annoyed about when dealing with him as behind accurate single fire rifles, bows, beam weapons are my next most used weapon(s), primarily my Combustion Beam Amprex.

I believe thats a clear bug which came through the "hitscan and continousbeam weapon gaining additional range when used under stasis fix" a few hotfixes back. since before that hotfix they all worked after realising stasis.. 

Most other statements you gave are more directed towards the people who dont know how to play limbo and as such have a negative effect on the team. 

22 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Limbo needs 2 changes. First stasis should only affect limbo's guns, second he should get a secondary passive what lets other players shoot targets for the cost of the said targets became able to shoot back for as long as the player continues to attack.

Boom, limbo problem gone forever.

if they only affect limbo guns its the worst ability for limbo ever, while it theory it still give limbo all the mechanics and fancy methodical playstyle he has atm but giving that warframe is a fast paced game and everyone has the mentallity to kill as many people as possilbe as fast as possilbe i dont think limbo will be able to get any use out of this and would only make it easier and better for the team since they get frozen enemies and can shoot at them while limbo has to either melee or shoot and reacast stasis.. in both situations i see the enemies being killed through teammates before limbo has even a remotly close change (this sitatuion takes place in cataclysm)

as a problem coming of this situation it would even promode the 4,3,4 or banishing the whole room without leaving a way to letting ur team have any major chance to kill sth.

Pls explain ur secondary passive. the way i understood the mechnic u are trieng to give it, which seems interesting --> the whole downside to stasis point since if u shot someone u can be shot as well by the enemies not making the cc too strong since it comes with a downside

problem i see with it is coming with spray and pray weapons... or cone weapons like ingis.. as those weapons would enable many enemies at the same time to shoot back. and how would the shoot back thing work ? can they only dmg the single guy the bullets are fired from ? or can the enmies shoot other people as well... giving the wanky ai they probably will also shoot the other players.. even worth with enemies like napalms or bombards since they got huge aoe attacks.

Alltogether this would sure give the teammates more freedom and let them be less reliant on the limbo player atleast considering stasis, which additionally is a complete downside for stasis usage for the limbo player.

And as it promotes the playstyle of banshing the whole room it still give no idea on how to fix the problem.. as far as i can see them the people complaining about stasis atm is that they only want to fix stasis and do not even mention most of the time that he can make enemies invunable towards anything but warframe abilites. how narrowminded can some people be? like ive givin this example 4 times in this thread already and the only thing that get commented on are stasis, stasis and oh look yet again stasis... atleast in stasis you can still melee if whole room is banished only think you can do is to hope that you play any major dps caster frame and even then since most enemies outscale warframe abilites at like lvl 50+ in most cases you will be unable to do anything at all.

21 hours ago, Ceryk said:

They need to just remove Statis. It makes him way too powerful (Cataclysm + Statis + Melee = God Mode), way too trolly, and the compromises they gave him to try and balance it out by making Banish only usable on the plane you are in make him really annoying to play compared to Limbo 1.0.

Too powerfull ? i dont think its to powerfull.. and dont even believe too powerfull should be a term in a mainly pve based game... the only way its too powerfull and you want it to be less powerfull is because you dont like the warframe or weapon and as such dont want that warframe or weapon be better then the things you like

why even point the ability to troll out ? the headlines says "Limbo stasis is troll over 9000" sure ist doesnt include all the other possiblites that limbo can troll which are way worse... interrupting hacks, failing trials/pads, not being able to start the mobile defense and so on + 4,3,4 or even banish in small scales

The compromise the gave him on banish is probably to make the whole sitatuion much more controlled and less choatic... since before rework it was a single target ability so you could select the enemies you wanted to have in the rift.. now it is a 90m aoe banish that doesnt require vision and goes through walls. so if it would effect both enmeies inside the rift and outside the rift you would get an uncontrollable area where some enemies are inside the rift and some are not.

[Limbo Stasis is troll level over 9000]

1 minute ago, LuckyCharm said:

Almost every mission I get over 50% of the teams damage and kills with my loki. Because stealth damage multipliers are a thing and my weapons and frame are optimised with forma

yup totaly the point of survival, defense, mobile defense, excavtion right ? you are trolling right ? literarly giving the example "i dealt over 50% dmg most of the time" :D goodjob boy... nice dealing 50% of the dmg if you lose mission since defense station gets destroyed right ? 

like i said... as you enjoy the invis meleeing everything down loki playstyle some people like to play the methodical/passive limbo playstyle... so just because thats not ur style its wrong right ?

and again you probably didnt read any post till the end... you read abut the playstyle i promote ? you read about that i even as a limbo player who enjoys limbo want tweaks and changes in his kit

the problem is everyone wants freedom... but everybodys freedom limits another ones.. atleast to some extent in warframe.

if i go into a game and want to have fun and do things... specially on smaller maps (which you cant chose cause of tileset rotations) i do get quite some times with resonating quake banshee or super minmaxed embers, equinox and even frost... you know what they do ? insta kill the whole map... atleast in any normal content missions so 3 people stand afk while 1 guy presses 1 button... or in some cases just presses it once... you know what that does ? limit me in my playstyle since i probably get to see like 1 single enemy in 30min

and oh look burst limbo instantly nerfed and destroyed... besides it not being ment like that from de the whole community hated nuke limbo.. cause he did what every nuke aoe frame did but better and had "annoying" effects on it.. guess what?  since you have to play him like he is intended more or less.. everyone starts complaining about this stasis... (and by all means stasis is just a minor inconvience, since you can interrupt it) if the limbo wants to be a pain in the butt he has some other means to annoy you or even troll you which are by far worse --> somehow a very low amount of people seem to complain about that since that dosnt interfere with them at the most times

and altogther while you complain and cry about limbo.. i dont see any realistic and usefull argument you can bring

your argument to not play limbo altoghter, is as nice as the arguments "leave the mission, play solo or troll back" so absolutly useless and without any real relevance

[Limbo Stasis is troll level over 9000]

1 minute ago, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

 

Yes, because a majority of players look at the forums, will see your post, have an epiphany, and all of a sudden won't be a major pain in the arse because they want to bring a freeze the world build. Thanks, Champ, making a world of difference! 

does anyone read even more then the last comment on a thread and comment on that alone ? problem is his kit... no argueing about it... or at the very least the stats.. long range, long duration, low energy costs (more or less atleast) makes it perfect to spamm huge aoe troll S#&$ 

i completly agree that its boring for everyone and hateful for ur own teammates..

Problem giving its the community missusing limbo to troll others instead of being a nice guy and let everyone have their fun

6 minutes ago, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

 

Better chance of DE toning down Stasis than having people playing Limbo actually learn how to function as a component of a team rather than just going, HUR DUR I IZ LIMBO I IZ HELPING WIT ME CATA THE SIZE OF THE GRAND CANYON! 

you think stasis is the biggest problem ? not the 4, 3, 4 combo ? how do you want to tune down stasis whithout having a completly different playstyle around the reworked limbo ?

And if you had invested maybe 1 minute, you would see ive commented on multiple existing limbo change threads... but it seems the only real threads that stay active are the threads with the content "lets hate limbo cause limbo sucks and all limbo players should feel ashamed about playing limbo for the rest of their live". 

The problem giving the fact that he just got his rework is that he wont be reworked in any major way... and god would i love a complete rework or a tweak of like every single ability including the rift itself... but that is not happening... if you take stasis mechanic away its just a plain boring cc... if it affects only limbo its not worth at all for the limbo to use stasis in cataclysm since probalby every enemy is killed before he gets into melee range or gets to end stasis so that his projectiles go through.

 

[Limbo Stasis is troll level over 9000]

well i guess this guy is fitting my description pretty well isnt he, aimlessly hating cause he gets "forced" to play a different style and then raging towards the limbo player and even trolling the limbo player besides the good intentions

Best solution for you @LuckyCharm would probably be to play solo, or just with a group of friends... which probably will be hard with that kind of attitude... so i guess only solo mission for you :P

i dont think you can compare rift+ stasis with any other cc in the game, it probably is the strongest cc combintation.. only way to make vauban somewhat like that cc is to spamm bestille... and i dont think u are playing ev by any means to counteract the energy use.

you are probably that sort of loki player that invis with atterax and spamms slide attack all mission long, which is by all means is everything but contributing anything towards the team or missiongoal

what the 

1 hour ago, LuckyCharm said:

 

I play loki in 99% of my missions

statement tells me is that you probably rely in most missions on ur team to accomplish the missiongoal itself while you go do the killing and have "fun".

So why do you get to do the fun things, while you have to restrict the limbo player to do sth entirely diffrent as to play a different frame altogehter thats not anything the playstyle like limbo ? 

Like i said it is possible to not entirly troll ur team... did you even read any of the setences that i wrote about limbo playstyle ? go and try that style urself... by any means having 5 enemies in the rift killing them with stasis on having some fun is not trolling at all... and with 60% range cataclysm is like just big enought to even fit 4 people and a cyropod or mobilde defense point under it without having to cuddle... if you want to do the killing you can gladly go outside the cataclysm which takes u 3 steps... but might get you killed instantly

And while i am at it... how many people do you think take vauban or frost in a mobile defense mission or defense in public squad ? like 90% join such a game with the assumption "someone else is probably taking cc to complete the mission" mentality.. i find myself as limbo more then often the only frame that has cc or can defend sth. Most people somehow tend to play either high dps frames or frames with strong survivability (wukong, rhino (not cc rhino) ,valkyr) which let me to the conclusion that they over the option whats best for the mission goal or team to chose their warframe to go with "i want to do lots of killing without having to care for a thing (any invis or "tank"frame ever)",

--> i myself am doing the same... thats why i pick limbo over frost or vauban

hence the tendency of public squads that you end with 3 dps or solo frames and 1 team orientated frame which more then often just happens to be limbo, which just so happens to have a somewhat big playerbase and is also one of the more fun cc based warframes.

 

I can understand the frustration towards limbo players that troll, or go full range builds whithout any real need to freeze the whole map and either stasis whole map or make whole map invunerable, hence the example what playstyle interfers the least with other squad members

[Limbo Stasis is troll level over 9000]

i think the whole problem limbo has atm is that while stasis is extremly cool for the limbo player its kinda annoying for the team... especially since they made it so (didnt change) that limbo has huge areas he can put into the rift with cataclysm so a huge area affected from said stasis

2nd problem he has is that he can make these huge areas he affects even bigger and can constantly put more enemies inside the rift via rift surge, this is a fun mechanic (spreading the rift) if they were really small areas affected to begin with, but since they are not it kinda gets out of control really fast, with 1 cataclysm riftsurge collapse of cataclysm he already affects a huge area and afterthat he just has to sit inside the rift spam press 3 so that the rift spreads through radial banish throughout the whole lvl/map.

Since besides abilities of other warframe nothing affects those enemies spamm chained inside the rift it gets really frustrating 

as it stands atm these facts or the promoted playstyle coming from these abilites wont change until some aspects get tweak or reworked.

 

The way i preffer to play limbo to get all the limbo fun and harras so few as possible teammates is to referr from using any +range (most of the time i put narrowminded 14 and cunning drift on so i get 60% range) this gives a convienient cataclysm rage for mobile defense/defense)

Also i dont use riftsurge cataclysm combo since it just makes a lot of things more choatic and a pain in the &#!, sometimes even for the limbo player himself. If i use Riftsurge i use it in combination with banish. This is not only really good for survival althogther it even makes limbo work even okayish vs corpus. And since i go low range i only get a few people inside the rift, which as long as enemies are near which is like always the case in survivals you can spread it through riftsurge and banish on those inside the rift getting the radial banish to fill the enemy count inside the rift up again.

As far as i am concerned i did not get any or atleast many harmful or negative feedback in public mission when i play limbo (few just instanly hate on the limbo player or leave)

 

And also as far as i am concerened as a more or less Limbo main, most of the time it does not make the limbo want to be nice to you or oblige ur biddings if you are not polite or nice... even worse try to troll the limbo (instant stasis break). So instead of instntly asuming that the limbo is gonna troll and make ur game expiernce worse try to atleast give the limbo player a chance a be as polite and nice as you are towards any  player. (maybe it is the problem that everyone seems to hate everyone in the warframe community anyway... just that limbo is even more targeted by said hate cause he forces others to rely on him or forces other to change their playstyle, what other warframes most of the time dont do)

It is true that limbo giving his kit, is probably the most picked warframe by those kids that touch themself inappropriately when they ruin the gameexpierence for the other teammates and even want to see them writing hateful comments directed  towards themself (sorry for the more or less rude description of their character.. still true thought)--> if those players dont play limbo at the time they play defense in squads swapping last second... kinda interesting how most people hate limbo as a warframe but not the playerbase who trolls with him

[Limbo stasis and the simulor]

i guess its running how it is supposed to be..

i dont know the whole conext but stasis has a projectile cap... most aoe and more effect like projectile have really low cap in stasis (staticor, sonicor, pox and so on) probably simulor also counts towards these weapons... and since a mirga shoots like multiple bullets at once (clones) the stasis hits the projectile cap instantly and collapses

[Merge all Limbo threads into one?]

it seems i have missunderstood your intention and i am sorry for it. It seems the choice of words and content you used for making ur statement made me misinterpret it.

I but i still have to disagree with that statement... look into the comment i did. People are complaining about those abilites.. and the same way limbo lovers defend limbo the lovers of affected frames defend those and that all fine and ok as it is all mainly based on ur own opinion and what you like

The main difference is that while those abilities also affect some way of playstyle i would say giving through range and duration limbo affects many many more then maybe even all those abilites togther.

And i have to agree on the matter of stasis, i do believe that its not a problem at all (problems comes from the community itself exp: if someone instantly bashes me verbally for using stasis why would i be by any means so kind and not use stasis or tap stasis off and on like i normaly use to do. i do believe if someone asks nice and is polite most players will stop using stasis or tap is every few seconds.

As the matter of frustration i sure can understand the points given of both sides... its an inconvience for not limbo players and the limbo player himself...

for example: try tell someone else to note use their ability so you can have fun... for example a resonating quake banshee or ember in a small room... soooo much diversitiy soooo much fun *sarcsam intensifies

But these are not problems.. at best they are minor inconviences... there are options to exclude these inconviences at all. Like playing solo, or in a closed group... and look all of these minor inconviences that the most seem to be complaining about arent there anymore.

 

To put some input down for limbo fixes and reworks (as i thought posting links to already exiting threads where for a few i even commented on and stated my opinion there would be sufficient which doesnt seem to be the fact since probably noone will actually use their time to go through each thread)

Rift -- >Minor tweaks towards not interrupting hacks if they are already started upon entering the rift, same for other possible interactions like pads in trials or lor and so on.

Rift Dash --> lower animation time (shorter range leaped and able to cast banish in rift dash animation

Banish --> way less range (its ~90m max range), create a portal infront of limbo for the duration of banish infront of limbo

Stasis --> Fix hitbox, contiousbeam weapons

Rift Surge --> optimal: complete rework /enemies affected by it take dmg from both planes of existence (less dmg from the other realm and additional dmg from the rift realm and can only be cast if the enemy is in the rift) Casting banish on riftsurged enemies while they are inside the rift will consume the riftsurge and a) radial banish as it is now (preferable for the limbo) or b) deal additional dmg/ or have somesort of penality for the enemy (slow, amor shred, many things possible as what the debuff should do (preferable for the team since enemies are in the normal plane of existence and have some sort of  debuff applied

 Cataclysm: No real need for a chage but would maybe make it more fun, but no need at all since the 4,3,4 combo putting everything insde the rift while no warframe is in would be fixed upon riftsurge rework

 

Also interesting suggestion i rea:

Banish: different interaction of tap (single target) and holding it making it aoe with cast area (like hydroids 1);

Stasis: affected enmies affect either energy or duration of the ability (my additional touch on it: make it a toggleable ability with a max duration upon reaching that duration it cancels and addtional each enemy affected affects the energy drained per second --> negative on keeping stasis up and would promote reactivating it consistently since after the projectiles hit and kill enemies the drain would be lower again)

Rift Surge: just read often that augment is nice but itself needs a complete rework... so maybe change it back to prerework rift surge

Cataclysm: some suggested a Magnitzie like cataclysm, so fixed oround 1 target thats as a cataclysm around it.. possible to be cast on multiple target (like mags ability)

--> my idea to push it more into sth else then copying a other frames ability...make it a cataclysm wich is centered around limbo (and moves with him) with no declining range over time (would make his augment absolutly perfect)

 

i hope this gives more ideas and possibilites to start a discussion about the matter at hand 

[Merge all Limbo threads into one?]

I appriciate your thought, but i think this is not the thread to discuss that subject about, you should probably look into this thread

and rethink if the subject your comment is about probably might be more fitting for that thread, since it more or less correlates with the content of it :)

[Merge all Limbo threads into one?]

Let me start by giving some basic intel about myself:

I am more or less a Limbo main and even was pre rework (40% and about 400h played in total), I for myself am in a Love/Hate relationship with him, while i love the way his playstyle was promoted in the devstream and probably was also his intended playstyle, the reality shows sth else, which inturn doesnt have to be something negative.

The truth is thouht that he is not Teamfriendly at all, at the very least with a open group (without coms). There are many frustrating downsides to his current kit and way he plays out. Most downsides are for the other teammates, some for limbo and also some for limbo and his team. The way limbos playstyle feels rewarding and nice, or makes fun at all or even lets say his promoted playstyle is only possible if you play solo... and i dont think that a kit of a frame should only be really playable for solo missions.

That said i ve already read through many "limbo threads" these days, some complement each other, some other had really valuable and intersting suggestion , and also some where just hating on limbo troll cause they had few bad expierences with limbo so far.

Some of the best intel ive read was not so much on changing or reworking Limbo again but minor tweaks to the rift and and stasis (i am sure many people would love a new limbo rework with their great ideas and opinions how this frame should be, even i myself would like some reworks or a complete reworks to make it my dream frame..... thats good and all but probably not going to happen at all since he just got his rework and noone can hate DE for that since who would want to thrash the work thats just be done because some people dont like it or had other ideas and opinions for it?.

Also if anything is to be changed it has to be noticed at first... and the way it is going atm everyday someone creates a new thread with a new limbo suggestion... so there are like probably many many threads with 10-20 comments that all discuss more or less the same matter but all die out after one or 2 days and nothing is happening or will be happing like that.

For that exact reason ive just looked through some of the threads concerning Limbo, here we go:

I would really appriciate of this would manage to make one big threat instead of millions minor, but if it helps to spread the Limbo love and promotes of of those threads to greater hights i am tottaly fine with it aswell.

And pls dont hate on my spelling or grammer since english is not my first language.

[Limbo Stasis is troll level over 9000]

27 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The problem is that limbos skillset is well...how should i put it... its like you gave a monkey a freeze ray, its effective if the monkey knows how to use it but can potentially hinder everybody as it proceeds to randomly freeze the place.

 

Lets say you are playing with Nyx and your team has an Octavia and a Trinity along with Limbo.

Limbo puts up cata, surges a lot of enemies, collapses cata and puts up stasis then proceeds to enter the rift.

Now you cant use any weapons to damage the targets in the rift and the frames the others and you brought along are not made to deal much damage.

Doesnt matter how powerful limbo got thanks to its augement you still have to sit and wait till he kills all guys inside the rift, what depending on the range can take a lot of time.

UP UP UP !!! That is the one and only problem and this literarly has nothing to do with adapting!!... Stasis is fine as it is, also the proectile cap works fine. it sometime even hinders the way limbo plays for example: sortie 3 defense, someone gave the target a staticor -> everyone died all the time besides the valkyr who gave the target the staticor cause cc didnt hold for more then few sec, so the troll being here was valkyr not limbo)

I believe to the 4, 3, 4 combo putting everythin insde the rift while none can kill them (only if you just happen to play a frame with huge aoe dmg on abilites) is to just rework 3 not giving it the radial banish on leaving the rift (kinda nice for banish interaction since after banishing once you can spread the rift using 3 and banish again to get the radial banish from 3 while staying inside the rift)

also probably lower banish range to not banish everything... (it think max range is 90m and which doesnt require line of sight and goes through walls)