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  1. Honestly I don't think you have to worry about them nerfing Rhino when Revenant exists.
  2. Thats all I could ask for right now is just give it a try. If you want at the start of this post is my build I was running to give you a base line if you are interested. If you still think it would be too powerful I think we would just have to agree to disagree or you might find something I have missed that you could tell me about and I could try out.
  3. You said "What about an unmodded weapon… and an unmodded Rhino?" I was just emphasizing that if both things were unmodded like you said then this statement "there’s some sort of modding or benefit going on there, right?" doesn't make any sense because there would be no modding benefit on things that are unmodded.
  4. I have experienced the new player experience fairly recently actually. So yes I have a fair understanding of what its like for a new player and what the foundation is like. And I don't think your comment came across like you wanted it to. "What about an unmodded weapon… and an unmodded Rhino? You’re like, one step removed from what I was talking about in regards to seeing Iron Skin for what it is as a core ability at a core powerlevel. If you’re invincible in the Star Chart, all the way up through Sorties or Arbitrations, there’s some sort of modding or benefit going on there, right?" There would be no modding benefit happening on two things that are "unmodded". Not to mention being able to recast iron skin wouldn't affect the earliest of early levels because it would only have synergy with Iron clad charge which is a syndicate mod which would have to either be traded for (which means a new player would have to have a large amount of knowledge about the game to ask for such a thing), or farmed which would take a good deal of time for a new player which means they would have learned a lot more about the game by then. This change would have little to no impact on new players. In fact most might be like "Hmm I can press my 2 again to remove my iron skin, just so I can press 2 to put it back on. That seems kinda pointless but ok." It wouldn't be until later when they learned about the synergies of mods and so on.
  5. But the thing is if you want to trivialize a fight you can already do that. If you don't want to spam iron skin you don't have to (even though it wouldn't make you invincible and it wouldn't give rhino anything new). If you don't believe me do what I did in reverse go slap on Ironclad charge and Iron shrapnel on your rhino and see if you just feel like Rhino is now invincible and can't die. But I am going to say that using basic star chart enemies honestly doesn't really count because unless you are standing still and not shooting they basically can't kill Rhino anyways. This is not "a unique to Rhino" thing either there are plenty of frames at their base with no augments or crazy helmith setups that can basically slap an unmodded gun on and solo the star chart (it would just take a while). But just try it out and see if you are not interacting with Iron skin more thanks to the synergy of the two mods. See if it doesn't change your gameplay some. Because like I said I did try removing Iron shrapnel from my setup and it drastically changed how I felt about the frame's powers and how they work together.
  6. Ah see I have a friend like you. He was a founder played the game in early beta and always talks about how difficult it was. Don't get me wrong I like a challenge too and yes with the right builds you can breeze through just about any content. I agree with all of that but that is what warframe is. Warframe has become a game where power creep is the game. All you have to do is look at some of the most recent additions, like Rivens can make any weapon completely busted, Helmith can make any warframe completely busted, and that is ok. Warframe has turned into that power fantasy game the one where you can feel powerful and have fun. There are still places for a challenge such as SP or Endless endurance if that is your thing. Heck you could just try off meta builds with warframes in normal missions just to add extra challenge and see if they work. This is the beauty of warframe if you want to challenge yourself you can. If you want to feel like an unstoppable force you can. It caters to a large amount of people and this is why so many people play it. Warframe isn't balanced and it never will be, its just too big. DE would have to stop making any new content and just balance stuff for years to actually make a balanced game but that isn't fun that is not ninja's in space that is bland same old 3rd person shooter. In summary no this is not "some minor inconvenience" nor is it "a detrimental mechanic" it is just a clunky mechanic that could be changed. I along with a few others have laid out why this would be a good change. And again I say this is a PVE game so what if someone is using Saryn and wiping the whole map with spores? So what if Revenant can one shot basically any level enemy in the game that isn't a boss. So what if Mesa is a turret that melts anything. The main point is this is a game and it is supposed to be fun. Would making Iron skin recastable really ruin your experience that much?
  7. I can't tell if you think warframe is balanced, isn't balanced, or are just trolling at this point.
  8. The fact that you keep assuming that this is just because "I play Rhino this way therefore everyone should." is frankly just off base. This has nothing to do with a favorite build. As far as melee nerfs honestly don't know what patch you are talking about. If you are talking about the one where they added galvanized mods honestly I had not seen one opinion of people saying that it really had a hefty impact at all. It was probably such a minor change that it didn't really make any real difference or at least none I have seen anywhere. The reason I say it will have no impact is because all these tests you want have already been run by the warframe community. We all know the warframe community will find the best min max builds and broken set ups. If having refreshable Iron skin could be abused it already would have because the mod already exists in the game and is a power people can use. People would of already broken it if it was possible, this is why augments have been nerfed in the past because the community found things DE declared unintended and so they were nerfed. Iron Shrapnel has been touched all of twice since in its existence. Update 16.0 (2015-03-19) The following Augment Mods can be used in PvP Rhino - Iron Shrapnel Update 15.6 (2014-12-11) Introduced. So the point I am trying to make is that if it could of been broken it would of and there is not a single mod in this game (currently) that I could put in Iron Shrapnel's place that would change this. Because again if there were people would of done it already. Heck I don't even care if they keep the knockdown and damage on an augment all I would like to see is just make iron skin recastable the rest I don't really care if they don't make that innate.
  9. Ok we have established that you don't like SP which I find interesting because you also say that you don't want this change to trivialize the game which means you want a challenge. I don't know why you think SP is broken or why you think I play steel path or that I am basing this post on steel path, but I think we understand that you don't like steel path so lets just remove that from the equation ok. Honestly I don't know that much about SP because I do my 5 dailies in a random squad for the steel essence and then do other things. Playing SP like this you can pretty much take anything and do fine so lets just remove that from consideration. The [Insert Mod here] is a mod that I am unfamiliar with but I don't have it so I am unsure on what kind of Power it would give Rhino in this theoretically open slot. Joking aside I can already take out Iron Shrapnel and put any mod in I want (which I have been trying out) but as I said before this removes a lot of engagement with the frame as a whole its kinda a put on Iron skin and forget about it till your shield gate procs then cast it again. To answer your other question I have used Rolling guard on certain frames that need to remove statuses quickly because otherwise they would die, but these are usually frames that are unable to tank such as volt or Ash. I think to boil this all down is that this is a change that would change nothing power wise with the warframe all it would do is make him less clunky to play. If you can't see that after several people have went multiple ways at trying to explain it to you then I don't know how to change your mind. All I can say is that this is a PVE game no one is forcing you to play Rhino in any form, hell no one is telling you how to play the game at all. This is just a thread I started to talk about the redundancies of having a 7 year old augment that is used for nothing more than to refresh an ability. This was not some clever post started to make Rhino the best warframe in the game, this wasn't because I felt like Iron skin was bad without Iron Shrapnel (because I don't think it is). This was simply a post to talk about how allowing Rhino to recast Iron skin innately would just add some nice synergy and quality of life to one of the original frames.
  10. There is a fundamental flaw in your argument. You say making iron skin recastable would trivialize anything outside of SP. But if that was true then this would already be a problem because you can already use Ironclad charge and Iron shrapnel together in the game. If it was able to break the game we would of already seen it. On the other hand if you think being able to have one extra mod slot will give rhino so much power he would break the game could you point to the mod that would do this? Next having this would not trivialize armor mods on Rhino as its always just a straight benefit for a rhino build wanting the highest survivability. Also none of my argument was based on steel path as I have said many times now this does not in any way give rhino any power he didn't already have access to it just makes it less clunky and less restrictive. And finally to address your earlier comment of "DE probably had a method and reason to not making iron skin innately recastable." I belive that might of been the case when they made the augment back in 2014. The game has changed drastically since then. With how you are arguing your point you make it sound like we should never change anything in the game or how it works. Maybe we should never look at old warframes and adjust them to be in line with new warframes or systems.
  11. I didn't know adding synergies were bad things? In fact it's proven not to be if you go by the play stats. Most of the most popular frames have some of the best synergies such as wukong, nidus, and gauss. And honestly I would probably put a Flow mod in because if I could recast iron skin I would need more energy or maybe a streamline. But that is just me someone else might find something more beneficial. Regardless this is a pve game if rhino was able to put in one extra mod I don't see that shaking up the game all that much with our current selection. It just adds more build options. And this change wouldn't "just cater to my play style" it would open more ways to play the frame.
  12. Yes it does make the frame feel more engaging and to me that is enjoyable. I am sure some people like the press one button to win but I prefer engagement. And from my experience without the combination of Ironclad charge and iron shrapnel to refresh iron skin it just makes rhino a frame with cool downs. Aka oh iron skin ran out time to press it again. Oh roar ran out time to cast again. The most engaging ability would be stomp which you would cast when you needed to revive someone. Without recastable iron skin why take ironclad charge when there are more reliable ways to get more armor. Therefore Rhino charge you would never cast because it is useless. So all of this is some of the reasons I believe Iron skin should be recastable, it adds synergy to rhinos kit without having to use two different augments. Also I want to clarify I don't think rhino is bad or needs a buff or anything like that. I also don't think he has to have iron shrapnel to be playable. That is not what this post is about. All I am trying to say is that by making Iron shrapnel as part of his kit it adds synergy and engagement to his play style. And even if you are not interested in the ironclad way of buffing armor you still have helmith and stuff to get a huge amount of iron skin and never have to worry about recasting. It is simply a quality of life change to the frame that already exists in game which I think would be a small change that would make a big difference.
  13. This is the point I am trying to make and I find it odd that some people seem so against it or can't see why making it innate would add some more depth to Rhino and allow him for more customization when it came to modding by removing this as an Augment.
  14. Honestly after starting this post I have started trying Rhino without the Iron Shrapnel mod and after doing so I have learned something. Without that mod Rhino becomes a lot less engaging, this is because I cast iron skin and whatever amount I have is the amount I have and if it runs out I cast it again almost like it is on a timer rather than a health bar. With Ironclad Charge and Iron shrapnel equipped I was always trying to raise the amount of Iron Skin I had throughout the mission I was doing, but without being able to recast it I now just have an ability that feels like its on a timer with no interaction from me. This in turn removes engagement with the frame and the abilities.
  15. Ok so we can at least agree that there is some inconsistencies between the abilities? Maybe some homogenizing on some abilities? So let me try this from a different side and talk about Augments as a whole. Take an augment like Gauss's Mach Crush I believe it is called. It adds a unique new ability to his 1 that in turn enhances his 1 and synergizes with his 2 and 3 by grouping enemies together. Now compare that to just being able to recast IS. One is fun, engaging, synergizes, and leads to a different playstyle; the other Iron Shrapnel only has synergy with another Augment not any of Rhino's other abilities and it doesn't change his playstyle at all. However if you made refreshing IS innate his Ironclad charge would have more synergy with his base kit and you wouldn't need two mods to have a good synergy. I believe a lot of augments need to be changed but that is a much larger task then simply making IS recastable.
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