-Define-
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Posts posted by -Define-
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5 hours ago, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:
So, I may have figured this out, although I don't like what I had to do to get there.
I took the damage numbers from the UI, added them, then multiplied by 1.45 to add the 45%. This gives 50.895. If you drop the decimal and go with just 50, then re-apportion the damage numbers by their listed percentages (i.e. slash is 60% of the damage) you get to the numbers shown in the UI.
This is indeed correct and reproducable even on other weapons (also tested with soma prime).
I will add it to the initial post so people can see it. Thank you so much for your contribution!
4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:Maybe the game calculates the total IPS damage using the highest of the 3. So a weapon with 10 Imp, 5 Slash, 5 Pun, will calculate everything as Impact. And the different damage types are just there for Status.
It's all tinfoil hat theory but that could explain.
This is a good thought, but how would that work with e.g "Flesh" ? It has a -25% DMG Multiplier on Impact and a +25% DMG Multiplier on Slash.
Btw the Soma Prime seems to calculate accurately with the Normal formula of just Inflicted Damage = Base Damage × (1 + Hitpoint Modifier)
applied to every damage and its modifier type individually and then add the results together against a "Corpus Tech":
Hitpoint Modifier Type "Flesh": (-25% I | 0% P | +25% S)
Soma Prime (Ingame Values: 51 | Crit 152)
(click it for higher resolution)
on the other hand the Braton doesn't:
Braton Prime (Ingame Values: 162 | Crit 324)
(click for higher resolution)
Since they are both assault rifles i think we can safely assume that the Weapon Type has no impact on the calculations.
It rather seems that every weapon has its own way of Damage Calculation, which will make comparing them very difficult.
I cannot stress enough that more transparency on that matter from DE's side would be highly appreciated!
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4 hours ago, zzzNitro said:
Commendable effort OP, I'm sure that if this thread lives long enough someone will speak to some of the calculations. Soon°
Thanks alot, that would be awesome!
Now for a little Update
Example is the Braton Prime:
apparently the Base Damage Numbers shown in game are rounded to the first Decimal Fraction (Example: 12,25 -> 12,3) :
Spoiler(click it for better resolution)
-----------------------------> 
Going forward, the Multiplication from Mods like Serration is wrong:
SpoilerThe Ingame Image:
(click it for better resolution)
Now Multiplying the damage in the sheet (or any other calculator):
With the Numbers from the Wiki: With the ingame Numbers:
None of the results match the displayed Ingame Values, nor do they round to the displayed Stats.
Now going forward, which values should i continue my calculations with?
The Braton Prime Calculation (-attempts v.v):
With the Displayed calculation from the Wiki
Against unarmored hit points or applying Finishing damage, the formula is simply:
- Inflicted Damage = Base Damage × (1 + Hitpoint Modifier)
at base (Desired Value 43):
(click it for better resolution)
the values are wrong, so i tried to take a different approach.
With the Sentence from the Wiki...
"It's important to note that type modifiers against armor work in two ways here: they mitigate a percentage of the target's armor, and increase the damage dealt in the same way as a type modifier against the hitpoints would do."
I went through the Wiki's "Charger" page again and saw...
Now since the Charger has 0 Armor it does not mitigate any damage, but since it works in two ways the Damage Multiplier should still affect it.
This Means applied to the Wikis Formula for Damage Multipliers
:
Impact Multiplier = 100%
Puncture Multiplier = 150%
Slash Multiplier = 106,25%
Spoiler
Slash Multi!
If we apply the new Multipliers to our Sheet we get the following results (the Red Number is the rounded value):
(click it for better resolution)
I used this with different ranks of "Serration" and "Heavy Caliber" to calculate the expected Damage for different Modded Multipliers and tested them Ingame:
Sadly at 45% and 75% the result was not accurate.
(If people want me to upload pictures from the ingame tests i can do so, but i thought the post is already long enough.)
Now those calculations were made with the Ingame shown base Values of the Braton Prime. If we apply the Wiki given base stats or the ingame given wrongly multiplied Modded stats the numbers get scewed and this can not produce accurate results.
To Conclude (cause im at it for 7 hours now trying to figure this out and i'd still like to play some actual warframe):
______________________________________________________
I can reproduce the base Damage of 43 in many different ways:
Just another Example of many i could give:
Rounddown Base Values: 1 I ; 12 P ; 21 S
Add them together : 1+12+21 = 34
Multiply them by the total Multipliers (not taken the Ferrite Armor into Account): 34*100%*100%*125% = 42,5
Round (since rounding is in the game -> Weapon base stats): 42,5 ~~ 43
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To rule out the wrong approaches I decided to add Flat Damage Modifiers (Serration and Heavy Caliber) which caused the content above...
All in all:
Im not an inch closer to the result and the wrongly multiplied modded values ingame add more questions to it.
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4 minutes ago, Robolaser said:
Why bother with rigorousness and consistency when one can get away with absolute lack of transparency? I took YEARS of players requests for DE to add a few additional basic weapon stats in the arsenal UI. Some weapons, like the mutalist quanta, still have a completely erratic bevior, despite time consuming reviews and feedback from players. Most have gave up out of frustration. In fact, i'm pretty convinced DE themsleves aren't quite sure how their own game works XD
Your efforts are commendable, though.
1 minute ago, Gerdaro said:You are very brave.
I have 450+ hours and still dont have the courage to face this kind of stuff
With reaching MR 13 and obtaining the Tigris Prime and all the mods to "minmax" it in the best ways that are at the moment known to us, i reached the goal i set myself.
Trying to minmax the Weapon, which at the moment seems to be the most damaging primary, led me to try to compare it to others.
For that it's important to understand how the Damage is calculated, which encouraged me to try to figure it out. The wiki seemed like a good start, but the numbers didn't seem to be accurate after testing.
Due to the lack of information out in the internet and the limited ammount of sources about this topic I am hoping to be able to find the answer together with you guys, so people who take an interest in minmaxing have a source where they can take information from which is thoroughly tested and thus reliable.
I plan on editing the initial post, once we find something concrete, so it is easily accessable to new people who join the Thread.
The more people there are, who all have their own way of approaching the topic will lead us to finding the correct solution quicker.
I highly appreciate any form of help or comment on this matter regardless of how simple it may seem.
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There might be different Calculations between weapon types like "Sniper" and "Assault Rifle".
Im looking deeper into thee Braton Prime right now and try to determine the exact way this weapon is calculated. I approach the rounding in multiple ways and look for changes between different elements and their multipliers.
I will go into much more detail once i figured out an approach which can reliably reproduce a correct outcome.
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39 minutes ago, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:
That was fast!
Maybe it's a Vectis problem, like a typo in the damage numbers displayed in the UI? Other weapons seem to give the correct numbers, minus the bonus from slash damage, correct? (As shown by @disco_inferno6.)
At the moment I don't see a consistent method of how the damage is calculated.
I just tested another Weapon to see if the statement would be correct:
Braton Prime (Unmodded):
Spoiler______________________________________________________________________
Unmodded Stats:
______________________________________________________________________
Expected DMG:
______________________________________________________________________
Actual DMG:
So if we would ignore the Slash Multiplier, the difference would be even bigger.
Now an interesting Fact here is, if we took the Total Raw Damage of 35,1 and multiplied it with the Slash Multiplier of 1.25 the result is 43,875.
Disregarding Decimals completely would net us an expected Damage Value of 43.
Logically this doesn't make sence tho, why would Impact and Puncture Damage be affected by the Slash damage Multiplier.
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7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:
Yeah, I was wondering if DE snuck in some sort of mitigation by level (or bugged it in).
In example A you are using a Vectis, correct? Since you are not zooming, you get an accuracy penalty. I wonder if DE also put a damage penalty on it? If you zoom in, does it correct the discrepancy?
Thats a good idea, i went into the simulacrum and tested it:
"Sadly" wasnt the case.
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All right, this thread wasn't created to discuss which decimal separation is the correct one.
jjpdn, Arniox, PhotriusPyrelus stay on topic pls or create your own Thread if you need to.
If you have nothing productive to say about the actual topic, please refrain from posting in this thread.
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Spoiler2 hours ago, disco_inferno6 said:
Sry, for taking a long time to reply.
First of all, as you may have already observed, warframe rounds off your damage by simply striking off the decimals. So completely ignore any number after the decimal.
As far as your calculations on armour they were indeed wrong because of not taking into account the base level of the h.gunner.
But when it comes to the charger calculation, I'm baffled too. Your calculations are correct. I really don't know why it's showing you 316 instead of 337. I went into the simulacrum and in a mission and reproduced the 316 myself, so i rule out any simulacrum bugs or auras etc. There is a 6% discrepancy give or take. I'll test a few more weapons and post again.
EDIT:
Braton Test
It gives dmg of 20 on a charger, so the display does not include the +25% on slash. It should give 22 dmg if we dont include any decimal.
Braton stats:
6.6 Impact
6.6 Puncture
8.5 Slash
Total: 20
Zenith Test
It gives dmg of 33 on a charger which is what we get if we do not include any decimal in our calculation.
Zenith stats:
4.5 Impact
6 Puncture
19.5 Slash
Total: 30
Soma Prime Test
It gives 14 dmg on a charger which is what we get if we include decimals in our calculation.
1.2 Impact
4.8 Puncture
6 Slash x1.25 =7.5
Total: 12 Total = 13.5 = 14(roundoff)
Ty so much for your contribution!
Thanks to you being able to reproduce the numbers i can rule out buggs with character etc.
The damage Calculation seems totally random:
for 1 Weapon not taking into account the Damage multiplier from Flesh,
for another weapon not counting in decimals while counting in decimals for another?
This makes an actual calculation for a comparison impossible or extremely complicated.
I wonder if its actually that random or if we are missing another seperate element of the equasion, which isn't yet displayed on the wiki.
I wish there was a bit more transparency from DE's side to give us some formulas or at least a general idea how the damage is calculated differently between weapons.
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8 hours ago, TheRealArmadillo said:
Im not an expert on damage calculations so im not sure if this even affects the overall calculations, but the base level of a corrupted heavy gunner isnt 1, its 8. Maybe that screws with the armor calculation?
Thank you alot, i can't believe i forgot to change the base Level back to 8 after the charger calculations.
The updated Heavy Gunner Calculation for the Vectis Prime:
Looking at this makes me wonder if the game is rounding or not, since it outputs 28 ingame, and the expected numer is ~28,95.
I will do some testing with other weapons to see if the same ruleset applies.
EDIT: I tested it with "Despair" (Unmodded) and the results are sadly off again despite having corrected the Base Level in the calculations. The result is in the main Post.
The Charger Calculation (Example A) still is a mystery for me tho ... any thoughts on it?
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Since im from Germany my google docs doesnt accept the Decimal Point as anything but a comma sadly, so I stuck to it to be consistent throughout the post to avoid confusion.
Sorry if that confused you :/
PS: Do you have any thoughts on the difference between the Calculation and the Tests?
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Sorry for the late reply, i just got back home.
The Damage against unarmored enemys isn't affected by level, since they dont have any form of mitigation. That being said i tested it and the result was what I expected.
Thank you for the suggestion tho, every form of help is appreciated!
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Hey there,
i started playing Warframe 3 weeks ago and finally decided to take a deep look into damage numbers etc so i am able to do calculations and theorycrafting myself.
Now upon reading up on damage 2.0 in the Wiki, I started doing calculations in an Google Docs Sheet and am kinda confused since the numbers dont add up.
Example A:
SpoilerA Vectis Prime (unmodded):
_______________________________________________________________________________________
The Enemy is an Infested Charger lvl 85:
His Health type is "Infested", which means "Impact" and "Puncture" are unaffected and "Slash" damage is buffed by 25%
The Charger doesn't have Armor thus there should be no damage reduction.
The expected Damage (Actual Dmg) is:
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Now I tested it in the Simulacrum and got the following result consistently:
I did more complex calculations regarding armor first and the outcome was even more scewed so I figured to do it the simplest way possible.
Example B:
SpoilerDespair(unmodded):
_______________________________________________________________________________________
The Enemy is a Corrupted Heavy Gunner, who has:
- Cloned Flesh (-25% Impact, 0% Puncture, +25% Slash)
- Ferrite Armor (0% Impact, +50% Puncture, -15% Slash)
The Scaled Armor to LvL 85:
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Now we apply the formula of the Damage Modifiers from the Wiki
to every Damage Type with the respective Health and Armor Modifiers:
Impact:
Puncture:
Slash:
this results in an Expected Damage of:
__________________________________________________________________________________
Now i went to the Simulacrum and tested it and the result was off again, this time higher than the expected Damage:
_______________________________________________________________________________________
The tested and expected Damage on Armored Targets changes with levels, since the Armor Rating (AR) scales with enemy level and is used to determine the damage modifiers.
Now since im new i might be missing something, but the numbers dont add up and i dont know where i could have made a mistake in this simple equasion.
It isn't Falloff Damage as well, since im literally point blank on the target.
This is the Link to the Sheet, in case someone wants to look into the Formulas:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kH4LG0utLG0_bNayMFceI9crZRGBE4vXtnyoGqx6NAw/edit?usp=sharing
People might say isnt a big difference.
The thing is, this is unmodded Damage. So since im trying to ultimatively do more complex calculations with killtimers and comparing Weapons,
the basics need to be accurate, otherwise once scaling hits, the gap between Expected and Actual Damage widens exponentionally.
________________________________________________________________________________________
The Results and Solutions found in this Thread which are accurate and reproducable:
1. Submitted by (Xbox One)R3d P01nt : Ingame Physical Damage Values are Calculated as follows:
Ingame Value: ROUNDDOWN((I+P+S)*(1+Modded Multiplier))*Portion of Damage
Example:
Soma Prime (1,2 I | 4,8 P | 6 S) = 12 Total Physical DMG Modded Multiplier: R0 Serration = 15%
Portion of (10% | 40% | 50%)= 100%
for Impact: ROUNDDOWN((1,2+4,8+6)*(1+0,15))*0,1 = ROUNDDOWN(12*1,15)*0,1 = ROUNDDOWN(13,8)*0,1 = 13*0,1 = 1,3
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I'd appreciate any form of help despite as insignificant it may seem, it could bring us a step closer to figuring this out.
The more people participate the better, since different point of views will result in us eventually finding the answers faster together!
LF people for long endless runs and endgame content
in Recruitment
Posted · Edited by -Define-
Hey there,
my IGN is -Define-.
Like the topic says I'm looking for people who are in general interested in running 60+ Wave defenses, 2h+ Survivals etc.
I am MR13, have the top tier Weapons, Frames and Mods (all potatoed and fully Forma'd)
If you are interested in that type of content feel free to add me ingame or submit your Credentials below.
Thanks for your time and I'd be happy to play with you soon.