Remedyheart
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Posts posted by Remedyheart
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2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:
I like to stab lich's in the hopes this happens again lol
Poor bloke only lasted 2 missions.GG, thanks for the archgun.I've done it. Three times. Good job man! That is exactly what happens when you guess sequences early.
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1 hour ago, EmberStar said:
No, I'm telling the people constantly whining that "I can't kill my lich" to form a group. Since they almost always follow up with how trivial it is to fight level 5 lich, it's super easy to farm for dozens of the kuva weapons, and dying constantly is irrelevant.
If you don't like how PUGs play... stop playing in PUGs. if you can't be bothered to make the slightest effort to avoid PUGs, then would you kindly. SHUT. UP.
Yeah the pugs are saying stab your lich while blasting every enemy in sight because your plan falls short.
Tried the conversion technique alone. Horrivle rate. Needs a tanky frame requires a non spammy lich kit that doesn't have channeling. This immediately removes 3 elements for lich hunts as they convert the slowest, tlimpact, fire, and electricity, because they have channeling abilities that lock them into an animation longer thus less conversion.
The minutes wasted on waiting around getting shot like a range target can be used on a newer mission utilizing the 5 minute thrall spawn increase which is just faster. Especially with a full team on your hands.
Even with a level 5 lich you cannot compare the murmur farm rate to a mission that takes literally 30 minutes to match two sessions of a full fledge experienced team.
Just try it already.
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9 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:
The Nemesis system will be so much smoother when DE implements a version that better accounts for human nature. Anytime you see a sudden surge in conflict tied to a game event, look for the faults in the design.
Looking for the faults in your fellow players and making threads about it is, at best, a waste of time. And it might make things worse.
We're suppose to be teammates and have common curtesy. Going off track here but Jesus when did gaming communities because so horrid? Like what happened to the morality of fun for all?
For real like a couple of guys are literally confessing "dump every other player la la la la la not listening my lich my rules go get slammed!"
Instead of the three who are actually working like a unit. Just three random people who are considering the one player ignoring them.
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2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:
You play with private group of friends only man. You alrrady confessed that. Probably takes all day for you guys.
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1 hour ago, akots said:
Purely constructively, I wont stab it if I know 2 runes and just got enough murmur for the third rune early in the mission before my lich spawns. There is no need for more murmur and I don't know yet what the third rune is, still need to finish the mission and equip it. Stabbing in this case will reset the anger and level up the lich which are both not desirable. If I don't stab it, I will kill it in the next mission (probably solo extermination) where it will have 99.9% chance to spawn instead of 30% after resetting the anger. I myself don't particularly care about leveling but other players do care as it may make their attempts solo quite difficult. I can die to it to let it go if asked very nicely and politely but if not, would prefer to keep my affinity as I am leveling or focus farming in parallel. Also, simply dying to it does not work sometimes on laggy hosts and the lich does not despawn. So, apparently I might need to die multiple times which will lose even more affinity/focus. This is one of the most obvious reasons. There are about 20 other reasonable reasons. There is no point in trying to explain that in the chat, too lengthy, got to run do the mission.
Oh right the third rune which is 140 THRALLS and about a dozen missions more?!
Gee. Wish there was a shortcut oh wait! You get a 1 in 6 chance of getting it right! You also should have been alrrady working on guessing mod sequence which makes it actually lower depending on progression.
Once I hit the third reveal, I'm already certain about 2 positions for 2 mods. Testing out mods just means I need to test out one or two more mods for that third mod position.
Essentially I can cut my missions by several runs saving an hour or two on grinding if guessed right. Lets keep in mind this is the crucial point to the hunt. Honing in on the target, the homestretch, the finally killing blow.
I don't even need to finish unrevealing my third mod anyways majority of the time with my method and plus stabbing my lich all the time grants me more thrall spawns a big boost to murmurs and saves time. I save even more going on prefered missions with a full team.
Oh and helping with four players on lich downs them in no time at all. Your method is flawed! We keep telling you that! many times over it supet long horrible and requires extra mission runs which costs you hours of empty gameplay time just guessing away because you wait too long on reveals.
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1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:
Nobody is griefing you from not killing their lich. Please explain how them not wanting to level up-die from- or farm mumurs from thralls is grefing. And again it's a public match why does said player have to listen to you in return? If you have to word it as bending the knee that's a very bad start. It's public matchmaking nobody has to listen to anyone in terms of anything as I dont know you and you don't know me. Telling a player to do something because you want them to isn't very productive. And them not listening isn't griefing in the slightist
I don't explain to me how taunting teasing and allow a mechanic that can one shot most frames on a slam is any bit of good for the experience?
Asking to get rid of a simple nuisance and to prevent such a fun killing mechanic to ruin the mission for others.
Just because one person's choice forgoes any consideration for others. Play solo then yeah. Maybe you should do that solo so you don't get into a pub that is most likely gonna be thrall hungry?
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1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:
Nobody is griefing you from not killing their lich. Please explain how them not wanting to level up-die from- or farm mumurs from thralls is grefing. And again it's a public match why does said player have to listen to you in return? If you have to word it as bending the knee that's a very bad start. It's public matchmaking nobody has to listen to anyone in terms of anything as I dont know you and you don't know me. Telling a player to do something because you want them to isn't very productive. And them not listening isn't griefing in the slightist
Well no one is saving us when we get slammed neither. But its fine leave it alone let it rampage on other. Unfortunate because that toss can really do some serious damage.
We won't lose the mission but dang...does it suck going down three times and finally asking. "Um...dude you need this lich?"
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20 minutes ago, EmberStar said:
You forgot:
RNG (lich rolling to spawn) on top of RNG (MY lich spawns first and I actually want to kill it) on top of RNG (the chances of any OTHER lich spawning which is NOT actually guaranteed) on top of an absolute certainty (someone being an entitled jerk who would rather DEMAND that a PUB bow to their will than just use Recruiting Chat and form a team that all promise to play in whatever way actually suits them.)
I honestly don't know why I'm even typing anything about this to be honest. I got rid of my third lich, and now I'm working trying to breed a "boss worthy" Rex army in Ark so I can finally clear the "you only have to fight them once" progression bosses in Ark. After that I want to upgrade the pallisade around my village in Minecraft, and then make some improvements to my little remote control mining drone-ship in Space Engineers. At this point I really don't care what DE does with Liches, because I'm no longer interested in interacting with the system at all. No one would care if I did quit forever. (I'm not, but it certainly seems like a good time to take a break for a few weeks. Or months. Or whatever.)
Jesus christ...you're seriously telling the new group of players in Warframe to form recruiting lines just to kill their lich?
Look we got lich trading, req mod trading, murmur farms, Lich trading, and now we need groups for "lich killings".
Might as well call us merchants jesus. No other system requires using that many chats to suceed.
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17 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:
Telling someone to leave the mission because they aren't playing how you want them to play is a major issue. One can simply say no and you all can form. A squad and farm afterwards for one.
And. Didn't I ask you. No where have I claimed a majority has said or done anything. You gave me a variable and I'm asking for the numbers.
Put up or please stop trying to make it seem like someone's the bad guy for playing however they want in pubs
In the end no one's bullying you. Potentially that one player is harming the other three. Quite literally by utilizing a Lich AI as a greifing tool. Which as we all know is unkillable so long as the owner takes no action.
So...now you can even consider the three "bullies" just trying to defend themshelves and their gameplay.
Why should three knees bend for a request when one refuses to kneel with the three?
Poison and toxicity start out small. Then eventually grows and ovescomes. This is the behavior mirroring non stab attempts. A bad idea stemming from bad players that is growing out of control infecting more.
Please leave me out of this and get out of my way then...
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39 minutes ago, Urlan said:
Toxic play? I would personally consider any player that requires another player to kill themselves to test something, like say a Lich; and still plays a public match to tell others to kill themselves on the chance of their own lich to come in to be exhibiting "toxic behavior". Its hostile to the community at large and helps fester player versus player sentiments which are the core of toxic behavior. Course, different folk have different definitions of what they consider appropriate or rude behavior.
You do realize these very same players are tossing themshelves over their lich all the same right?
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1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:
It does for me. I suggest trying it solo and not bombing the whole room. The Lich needs active bodies to convert.
It's not just the Lich you have to let live... It's the mobs in the room as well— I ignore all mobs that aren't Nox or Leeches when my Lich shows up.
...When my lich shows up, Thralls go first in the kill order above all.
From that point, I watch the Lich point at random mobs and they transform into thralls every time. The number tends to be limited though— I tend to get at least 6 per mission that way.
Yes, I hear you...And that isn't the only way to get positives.
Likewise, I am telling you that what you call a negative actually isn't.
For 10 murmurs, you cost yourself on average 3-4 additional missions (per set) at a rate of ~6 additional murmurs per mission rebuilding rage enough to get the Lich to re-spawn...I do not.
I clear ~20 additional murmurs in that time from those missions where you are trying to rebuild rage to attempt for 10 more.
I haven't even made mention of sequence as my goal is clearing the murmurs.
Put simply, having tried both styles of generation and discovery... I prefer ignoring the Lich, for the most part, while I am working on murmurs. YMMV
And there is nothing wrong with your way imo...Until you start bullying others to do as you say in order to convenience you.
That said, I am not an advocate of players who choose not to attempt their lich because they don't want to inflate it's level or difficulty.
I don't agree with the prevailing etiquette but do respect it enough to adjust accordingly if I find myself in a position to have to group.
...I do take issue with all the bullying being done on the subject though.
Perhaps you misunderstand...I never mentioned mod sequence aside from the sequential order you complete murmurs.
My way earns me more murmurs. I will attempt once the accrual almost clears the first group of murmurs provided it's enough to get the 1st requiem mod hint (not the first in parazon order for the kill...I wish though 😁. My 3rd hint is always the first in order for some reason.) because you have time to build rage back up and alot of missions to complete regardless.
I save groups for those team oriented missions in instances (Typically the start of the 2nd set of murmurs) where I am out of other missions and my Lich's rage is low (ensuring no spawn) so I don't have to listen to folks having conniption fits because I waited to kill my lich until after it converted some thralls.
Long story short? You really aren't losing anything if someone else doesn't attempt their lich.
Still feel like you are? Run the next mission solo and make the attempt then... Try what I told you and you won't just get your 10 for the attempt but even more from conversions.
True nuff. But hey just because that dude misses out on stab attempts don't mean I want to.
So that's an extra 5 minutes wasted or potentially up to 10 minutes for a single missions. Couple that up several times or half the time now since this horrible inaccurate trend is growing and you get hours wasted because of a rude dude.
Times this by three experienced players and their toxic behavior is effectively killing hours of effort. The missions stack and this bad decision stacks threefold.
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1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:
Lich grefing is just as hilarious as calling for a ban. You can't control what the next player does in a public match. Calling it grefing because you want to kill your lich is just plain out selfish. If you want to farm a specific thing it's common knowledge to seek a group for tasks at hand such as lich murmur farmin. Expecting a "common courtesy" in a public match is laughable
I'm not. But this behavior deserve a title.
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:
Lmao lich griefing this is hilarous
I could say the same thing about toxicity among majority of the playerbase or asking for bans...Like come on this is hilarious and not the ban requests?
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Tsk tsk tsk. Still relying on rivens for damage?
A lot od us enjoy the new system and so far every new change has been making it easier to do again and again and again and again and again.
It's been eight updates and several dozen changes. Yet...complaints. Yeah maybe they changed the system responding to player complaints. But how much further we going to go before its just free weapons?
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1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:
You will still get double #*!%ed if you stab the lich unprepared.
Get killed cause lolz, and the lich levels up. It was definitely worth it for a chance.
Also why are we not suggesting ways to fix this S#&$?
Telling others to go and #*!% up their progress is fine, but trying to come up with a solution to make the system better is out of question?
Calm down. You're the only one angry here friend. Now why would you not want to stab a lich? I won't go into a debate but I'd like a civil view into why such an option is even considered alright.
Mind you I have 20 defeated on my belt and have tested out many methods. So please be honest and kind to other conversing with you.
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4 minutes ago, EDM774 said:
I think this tenno sums things up nicely:
sorry for quoting you on another thread btw ^_^
Yeah it's sillt but ultimately it comes to the nature of the system its intended purpose and experience meant for all players.
Players ignore their lich because they can. Yet players who know how to benefit from stabbing their own while trying to help this player are left in the dirt.
I still take my ladder with the confused three who are kind enough to subdue my lich so I can stab it even when I didn't want to at first. I didn't understand but now I do and often take my attebtion and time away to side in another player's lich fight.
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Ultimately its dealing with the initial roadblock that lead to any offense that affects a player.
When the trigger is dealt with properly it prevents the chain of aggression.
Think of this situation. A team goes into a Kuva Lich mission. A lich spawns and only three are hammering down on then. When no one comes by to stab it make ot go away the three are left emwith questions and concerns. Now three players are dying wasting ammo time and effort on the sole player's creation.
The aggression is from the str3ss of having three minutes of fun taken away on multiple deaths. This is affinity experience and the most precious thing in Warframe which is playing time. When asked why is the Lich still there the three are ignored or laughed at. This is what bore the single player's side if aggression.
Cobstant instances of this trends and experienced Lich Hunters are now more aggressive than ever thus creating the illussion that public lich hunters are toxic when it is in fact the inexperienced hunters who are blocking progression and ruining the fun.
Thus we havr come full circle to the last resort of the single player of a four player team calling for reports and bans. Whereas the three yelling at the single player refusing to stab attempt keep demanding the single player to just do it. No amount of reasoning has helped and their advise experience and requests have been met with the highest of resistance to the point where crowd are now sympathizing with them.
Meanwhile the three players who have had countless missions and hours wasted due to a small bad habit just cobtinue forward trying to defeat more liches.
The only solution I can think to do so here is a harsh one...
Lich Time Bomb - The lich plants a bomb on the player assigned to them. If the lich is not fought via player owner(stab attempt) The bomb goes off thus killing the owner. Mission resources taxed become increased.
Active Lichs Hunters - In the same manner of companions Lichs now actively hunt their intended target rather than their squadmates. This decreases Lich Greifing and allows the rest of the squad freedom from the immortal lich's wrath. This also gives a reason for the player owner to deal with their lich or really ignore them by binding them to the player taking responsibility.
Licb Sabotage - Leaving an active lich in a mission increases reward loss for everyone! This forces the team to deal with the threat at hand and gives everyone a reason to down the active threat or else it steals rewards.
Those three are the only ones I can think of. The reason why players ignore their liches is because they can. And they will do so and some are even willing to jeapordize public fun for it. So the nemesis system needs to be more of a personal nemesis system rather than a public nemesis system.
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2 hours ago, cmacq said:
Ah you're not even reading the posts man. That's not what people are saying at all. Everyone gets a 60% weapon yes but after a lot of grind is what we're saying.
Its alright we get it. You want every BP on the first mission you want to clear the star chart after conpleteing a planet and you want full syndicate rep for one day's grind.
My point is out of everything, you're complaining about a system that gurantees a super strong weapon? That you can now trade? That you can easily grind two to three a day? And then sell it off?
Just what? Why? I'm not trying aggrevate you but your points fall so short it is all just unresonable. Its as if you don't play Warframe.
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So I've noticed a new toxic habit in public games where players are refusing to remove their liches from play for some strange reasons.
Despite players using common courtesy to request said stab attempts, players continue to threaten entire teams with banning and reports.
I find this highly unresonable despite every effort to kindly help them find a more efficient method of Lich Hunting. This ultinately affects a Lich Hunter's progress and is the slowest method of murmur farms I have ever tested.
Please. Let's be resonable and think about the players here. We all want to defeat our lichs but we can only do so together in cooperation.
This is not a thread for harrassing or insults. So I appreciate it if everyone keeps this civil. The Nemesis system we have would be so much smoother if everyone thought more about teamwork rather than individual rewards.
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1 hour ago, Graavarg said:
And personally I think many of the suggestions would make things better. And I wish the fix will happen tomorrow Monday so we can get rid of this sh-t.
Banning players that harass and bully others is a general thing, harassing others and behaving badly is against DE rules and when severe enough bans should always happen, it is not only a lich mechanism-specific thing. And as we all probably know banning also does happen, and that reporting obnoxious behaviour can lead to bans (not always, but depending on circumstance). That is nothing new, and should in no way be controversial.
Lich farming + the current system just happens to create a situation where things explode. But everyone is still responsible for what they do and say, if you unload on a poor low-MR just because he/she won't stab his lich YOU are responsible, you can blame DE for the design, but not for acting like a bully. And if someone is enough out of line and get reported a ban should follow. Just take a screenshot of the chat and report, DE will sort it out. Everyone has to behave, even in lich missions. And "being severely out of line" has been the case multiple times (though I will not go into specifics or post screenshots in the forum), but since I can see what happens only with the squad I am in and there are millions of players my assumption and extrapolation (since I can't know) is that this is a fairly large problem currently.
However, I now rest my case, everything has been covered (many times over). If DE really needs the info and want to act on it there is plenty in this surprisingly large thread. Never saw this huge discussion coming, had just observed one more case of bullying and obnoxious behaviour in-game and thought this just has to stop (players destroying other players gaming experience), so I made a post. Still think I am in the right 🙂.
From my point of view I want to thank each and everyone who has contributed. Thanks guys. And if you want to continue, feel free. For me real life and Monday morning beckons...
Its not a reason of cannot if the team can help him. And the reason of do not falls upon the lich's player.
The potential for Lich Greifing is not one manner that should get 3 other players banned for just wanting to figure out their mod sequences.
You not killing them while one or two players are set to kill their lich is just rude mean inconsiderate and creates a horrible environment. We can sit and argue all the time but that si gle one player will continue to wait until you have finally taken the step forward to do so.
You would east another player's time and force him into extra missions with the threat of bans and reports for the mere request of "Hey buddy can you grt rid of your lich? We've been fighting him for 3 minutes now. I need to kill my own lich. Thanks."
Oh and 3 minutes of dying gam3play plus further time used up would make many a player mad so their aggression is caused by your choice of ignoring the situation and creating a public problem.
Rethink your choices please. No one wants to br pushed away just because one player deems it so. This is what Lich Greifing essentially comes down to.
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2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:
I SAID, I play with ONE streamer. ONE. It's a small group of regulars. There are never any randoms for either us to inconvenience or them do the same to us. Meaning that we all team up with like minded players to achieve the goal or we just play solo.
I said recruit like minded players or solo. I did not say how you go about doing that. I also said to go solo, which is something I do. Notice all of you just ignored that as a viable option because it doesn't fit your narrative. Just as this person in the quote below is doing.
You can be a victim and constantly blame others for your issues, or you can take responsibility for your own actions and choices. You have the choice to go pub, make a group, or go solo. Don't act like you only have one choice when you have 3 and ignoring two of those.
I will say this again as some seem to miss my point. I have problems with the Kuva Lich System. I just don't ignore the real problem by bringing up something that is just a symptom of the bigger problem.
Sure no problem let me ask my strramer friend....Oh wait! We don't have one!
Gee now doesn't that suck. Seriously dude you sound very rude and horrendous.
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3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:
Interesting that I don't have any of those problems while having a full time job. I only group with a set team when they happen to be streaming WF. Otherwise I play solo. So, let's just say my sympathy for the above statements just doesn't exist. 😄
Don't think for a second that I'm defending this BS system of the Kuva Liches. I'm not. My problem with it is something I've said in a another topic. Which is...
Did you even read your own post?
You play with streamers. FYI you and your clique make the rules and you seem to have a ton of bad habits if you're forcing others to play the same way.
Jesus this explains so much in why pubs are so messed up now.
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2 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:
Being able to combine weapons to create a better one wouldn't be passing them out like candy. It would mean the bad-luck RNG weapons have value.
That seems to be one of the biggest flaws with the current system. If you spawn a lich with a kuva weapon you already have, but its stats are worse than your current one, the only incentive to kill it off is to get rid of it so you can spawn a better one.
Okay so lets allow everyone and anyone to have 60% elemental bonus Kuva weapons.
This is what you guys are saying. No work no effort towards these weapons we just hand them out.
For nothing.
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3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:
If you are TRULY hunting/farming your Lich, then why would you be doing it in a random group instead of recruiting a team of like minded players or going solo? It just seems like Common Sense to me to do it one of those two ways just to make things better.
Ease of acces perhaps you have limited time to play. It's also a new syste. so there's not many players looking for murmur farms. Then stuff like this drives more players away so less recruitment overall.
This behavior negative behavior ends up limiting players to ONLY pubs unless they want to struggle and grind much longer solo.
New toxic habit "Lich Greifing", Stab your lich please?
in General Discussion
Posted
Leaving lichs allows a one shot mechanic to linger. Conversion rate is slow and liches only spawn later into the mission.
The optimal 5 minutes thrall spawn rater is quicker and you'll never get both at once. My way is also safer more fun more mission secure. Stabbing a lich for an extra 10 seconds of your time is a big boost to murmurs as you can suicide leave mission start up another one.
This is what beats lich conversion. The transitioning and efficient use of time. After the 5 minutes thralls spawn rate significantlt reduces to avoid player abuse. Liches spawn around this time and need enemies of the same faction in line of sight.
Depending on the mission as well players will have already mowed down majority if not all of the enemies. Going pubs means enemues are plowed through anyways and wasting time to lead your lich across another tile to the small group of newly spawned enemies is not worth it for an extra 5 thralls for an extra ten minutes.