NevanChambers
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Posts posted by NevanChambers
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Lately there seems to be a bit of Melee 2.0 fever going on. This is concerning when compared to the enthusiasm for damage 2.0 which was heralded as the salvation for the game. I know I got caught up in that and was in the end let down, don't get me wrong I'm pretty happy with how it turned out but compared to how I built it up in my head the real thing stood no chance. Here we are again though and the unbridled optimism is sweeping the community. Just like last time people will come storming onto the forums raging that feature a.) (not promised by de) and feature b.) (not even hinted at by de) were not included.
To that end I would politely suggest that you not expect grand changes that turn the game into something it's not. Like for example certain character action games that will remain nameless. Ultimately, through the recent livestream I've come to anticipate Melee combat that flows and works better than its current incarnation but that largely functions the same and looks very much the same as it does now. Basically I'm saying incremental not revolutionary.
In the end I know my little topic will probably change very little but I feel better having said it. I'm sure I'll be having fun with the new Melee and might even be surprised. One thing I know is I won't be getting crushed by dissapointment, I'm keeping my expectations in check this time
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Sentients are not an alien race... orokins were the weirdo while sentients were the humans... what ppl seem to misunderstand is that in the whole war the orokins were the bad guys, not the sentients.
This may just as easily be reversed there isn't anything in the official lore to say one way or the other. For what it is worth I agree with you, but if de decides this was not there's no real basis to cry foul.
Finally lol at the people who think the stalker is a good guy cause of his codex entry.
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Actually any of the 3 survivals on Saturn work equally well, the one caveat is you need a nekros and 2 is better. Also super great for affinity farming.
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I'm gone once Titanfall is out.
are people supposed to care?
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question does it make me a A.F.K'er if i got a life? got something come up? people have real lives; dont like it? tough. and the way D.E. works now a days they would just make people P.O'd.
alot of you dont think before you type and alot of you have to realize people are behind the other side of the screen.
Yes it does if you sit there afk for a whole mission it also makes you scum. I have a life too and it is the easiest thing in the world to exit out of a match so that someone else can join the group I can't help with. Then again I'm not a completely selfish jerk and know how to be polite. The whole I have a life excuse is total bs, exit out just cause you have a life doesn't entitle you to rewards you don't work for.
If however you mean wandering off to use the bathroom or something, announcing you're going afk and coming back in a reasonable amount of time then no. I've not met anyone who had issue with that.
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Warframes weren't created to be mercanaries they were created as soldiers. The point is fine but extremely important.
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Sooner or later it will be like that anyway. Introducing a stalker-like enemy just for one of the factions has led to an enormous imbalance in the invasion system (again, they should have learned from gradivus...)
you assume they didn't and we aren't playing right into their hands. Just sayin'
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Considering what the Tenno did to the Orokin, yes we are way beyond insane.
Oh those poor innocent orokin.
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One problem with ops suggested method is that imaginations running wild invariably leads to disappointment when it sees the full light of day.
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I use Saturn survivals to farm affinity with 2 nekros (nekrosis? aknekros?) and have had a lots of luck with orokin cells. We do 20-25 minutes usually get 3-4 almost never do a run without at least 1. Plus crazy amounts of affinity for our precious forma-d gear.
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There's been crazy amounts of bad player behavior lately. My favorite are the people who play exterminations and run right past enemies and rush straight to the exit and sit there as if that will let them leave.
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Fix the weapons or fix the masterys.
What's wrong with weapons and mastery?
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It's my most played game so far. So they're doing something right for me! :)
Mine too it beat fallout 3 by 400 hours
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Go fast or go solo.
Stay with the group or get stuck at a friendship door. As a bonus yell at the rest of the players and then get left there longer.
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I don't trust design council to vote for interesting weapon concepts. I hope you enjoy katanas and other long swords.
I also don't trust the community as a whole to do any better. I have no idea why you think they would.
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I think you have a totally realistic expectation for sword 2.0 but I also don't think you are expecting or asking for DMC. I do believe there is a lot that can be done to improve Melee but asking to turn a third person shooter into a flashy action slasher is just not realistic. My biggest concern is the best way to do Melee is lock on and the worst way to do shooting is lock on so I'm not sure how those would interplay. Though having an equipable sword would provide an avenue to that end where they wouldn't interfere with one another.Warframe would not necessarily have to overhaul code their AI for something similar to DMC swordplay to occur. They would have to overhaul many animations and their accompanying functions, which I believe they are doing to a limited level with Sword 2.0. Another challenge would be have the similar dramatic camera that would be as dynamic as DMC's during combat (Im thinking a series of conditional loops).
I dont want to say that a perfect balance of shooting and swordplay (that is fun) is not possible for many reasons, the fluidity of animations tied to intuitive controls would create that mixed balance. The more developers experiment with it; the more likely a team will eventually achieve this.
What I would expect and appreciate from sword 2.0 in WF is simply:
- You equip your sword, like you equip a weapon.
- Block is right (or mapped to mode) click
- Attack is left click.
- Possible new animations that chain existing charge attacks and new charge attack animations, that provide different damage functions.
What they can do with this system described that I would not expect in the first iteration:
- New movement functions for this sword equip mode: ie: persistent sprint with different animation (possibly speed/stamina tradeoff), to close range.
- A more dynamic (range or height) jump while in sword equip mode:
- Alterations to the gymnastics animations the frame perform in sword equip mode.
- Hopefully the removable of zorin chopper animations, and similar functions; replacing them with something more practicable
Still that doesn't account for scale. A big fight in something like DMC is 15 or so enemies at a time not the hordes we encounter regularly especially with a situation like 4 napalms bombarding you while your trying to aerial rave a lancer. I think dynasty warriors and its branch of the action genre is a much more realistic goal to aim for.
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Two things.
The token system if implemented for prime stuff wouldn't affect the spending of platinum as you can't spend platinum to get them anyway. What else would you impliment tokens for anyway.
The second is I got almost all the prime weapons in a few days by lurking on the recruiting tab so that's doable now. Yeah I got lucky and all but it's still possible.
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I want to see melee 2.0 :D they better add devil may cry combos XD
I’d love it, thing is it won’t work
Warframe despite being in third person is built like an FPS in the way that movement and aiming work. This is inherently incompatible with a game like DMC. There is a reason that there aren’t many if any melee focused FPS style control schemes, no one has made it work. You would at best have to rework everything about the control system and then apply it only when a selectable melee weapon was equipped. Even then it would only work for those of us using a controller. Don’t believe me? Go try to play any DMC with a keyboard mouse combo. You could also save yourself the trouble though and just drill a hole in your head they are similar experiences, actually the hole-drilling might be more pleasant.
That is to say nothing of how the enemy AI would have to be scrapped completely and rebuilt from scratch. If you’ll notice very few of those kinds of games have many ranged focused enemies. Those few that do have them use their ranged weapons sparingly and often within the confines of much smaller arenas than Warframe gives us. The only one that has them and has them use their guns in abundance in Ninja Gaiden and it is almost universally panned for how cheap they are. Even in that game though they still make up the vast minority of enemies.
The only game that has even come close to incorporating the two styles was the recent deadpool game and that didn’t work very well either. You either have to minimize the shooting or minimize the melee the choice DE made is obvious. While I find their ambition to improve on it laudable I’m not holding my breath for anything spectacular. The two styles are just inherently too different to play nice together.
TLDR: Everything about warframe prevents DMC style combos from happening.
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Yeah it's speculation for sure. I just can't think of anything else given what is known that would explain why no one else can use the frames. I thought my reasoning for the cryopod thing was pretty weak. I had typed that 3 times on my phone and just kinda ran out of juice having done the first 2/3 of it on a touchpad keyboard so many times.
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I've read through the whole thread and thought i would add my own 2 cents to the lore discussion. I will attempt to provide a plausible timeline that incorporates what we know from the Lore of warframe and the link to Dark Sector.
Assumptions
-The Tenno are good the Orokin less so
-The lore of warframe and dark sector are connected (LS 10)
-There are humans in the Galaxy that are not Grineer or Corpus (livestream)
Dark Sector Ends:
Hayden Tenno realising the threat that the infested present sets out to gather as many people as he can find with congential analgesia and forms the Tenno Clans who live to fight the infested and protect the uninfected population. Over many years the become an insular warrior culture taking bits and pieces from warrior clans of the past especially Japanese. Technocyte infection becomes a rite of passage to allow the Tenno to be effective fighters against the infested and to weed out those without the genetic abnormality, eventually the analgesia becomes a trait that breeds true in the Tenno clans. The Tenno are highly trained and very impressive warriors donning their techno-organic battle suits and fighting with an extreme ferocity. The Tenno however do not have access to crazy powers and fighting the infested is a losing battle for the small group probably only numbering in the thousands when the infection spreads so readily.
Enter the Orokin:
The orokin arrive to earth and elevate humanity gifting them with space travel and the ability to terraform inhospitable planets. This is not freely given and comes at the cost of the complete submission of the human race to the Orokin.Humanity on their dying rock jump at this chance. Much if not all of humanity are fitted with Orokin cybernetics giving their masters complete control over their nervous and musculatory system. Over many thousands of years the human race prospers under the rule of the Orokin. They trade their freedom for safety and submit to the exprimentation, mind control, and whatever else the Orokin decide they want to do. Impressed with the prowess of the tenno and their control over the technocyte virus they incorporate them into their military forces taking a hands off approach to their management dealing directly with clan leaders and largely not wishing to corrupt what makes them special.
The Tenno having only an interest in protecting the weaker members of their race and the extermination of the infested are largely unconcerned with these proceedings but keep an ever watchful eye out for their hated and ancient nemesis.
The rise of the Sentient:
I subscribe to the theory that the sentient are a spontaneous artificial intellegnce that comes about through the Orokin network in some way. These intellegences can use the neural implants to house themselves in flesh and interact with the surrounding universe. Horrified that such an exsistence outside of their control has manifested the Orokin set out to exterminate this new life. The propaganda machine turns the people of the solar system against the Sentient though no hostile actions have been taken.
All out War:
The sentient, their existence threatened fight back. Born of Orokin technology they turn any new methods of attack against the empire almost as quickly as they are deployed. The Orokin requiring a complete shift in Methodology turn to the Tenno as a method of attack. Though strong and successful the Sentient grow too fast for the Tenno to hold them back.
Re-enter the infested
Impatient and feeling the noose close around their necks the Orokin turn to dangerous methods to fight, They explore the void a newly discovered dimension outside our known one, and they release the infested to fight for them. The Tenno are horrified by this but see the sentient as a greater threat to the peace and safety of humanity in an immediate sense. Their trust in humanities masters is hurt but they soldier on, War is not a time for thinking.
The void and the warframes.
In the exploration of the void the Tenno are used as escorts to scientific teams. Something goes wrong however when the deeper reaches of the void are pierced. No one really knows what happend but only the Tenno escorts returned overflowing with an uncontrollable power. The Orokin seeing the potential in these twisted souls contruct new technocyte based armors for the Tenno allowing them to harness and control their new found power. They are dubbed Warframes the first of these is Excalibur. These new Tenno are incredible before they were the equal of a platoon now one tenno is worth a fully equipped battalion. More and more Tenno are sent to the void and it is discovered that not all are created equal. Some don't come back, some few who do cannot be contained by any means and rampage until they are finally destroyed. A test is developed to determine which tenno can benefit from the void. Those who cannot are kept close to home protecting the Orokin rulers and elite. These "low guardians" often feel a resentment towards their brethren on the front lines.
The end to the War:
Finally the all mighty tenno drive the sentient from the solar system out beyond the terminus and are welcomed back to the inner system the heroes of the Orokin empire. The Tenno remembering the Orokin willingness to use the infested and unwillingness to allow them to return immediately to their duties in exterminating them forcing them to attend meaningless ceremonies instead grow even more distrustful of their masters. Using their immense intelligence gathering skills the Tenno learn that at the height of their celebration the Orokin, fearing the power of their new creations intend to eliminate all of the new Tenno insultingly at the end of the beating of the 10th ceremonial drum. The Tenno plan and wait for their time to strike.
The Orokin stand no chance and the 10th drum is never sounded.
Hibernation:
Fearing their own power and knowing that it corrupts the Tenno seek to remove themselves from the equation after wiping out the remnants of the infestation the remaining new Tenno place themselves in cryogenic sleep preserving themselves until they may be needed in the future. After all the sentient still lurk beyond the terminus and the void houses many unknown things.
-The rest is pretty well explored
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If that is true, they really need to work that in somewhere. Not once while playing did I have the feeling that the Tenno's actions were to protect some thing non Tenno. Heck, if that is true, how does that conflict against the meaning that the Tenno are only loyal to each other? Do they protect these innocents only during convenience and would turn on them if it truly risked the Tenno as a whole, or has the Tenno loyalties changed?
These are good questions. Where is the Tenno only loyal to the Tenno thing from? I agree they should work the humans thing in, when the guy answered the question he seemed surprised it was even a question in that "duh" sort of way. Though there's probably a fair few things they should work in. I'm interested in your last question. It's implied that the Tenno are risking their lives in their operations. In my opinion I would say that would not be the actions of those acting out of convience. The other side of that coin is that the Tenno as an organization may throw away lives on an issue of convience and Tenno loyalty would outweigh personal saftey even for an ignoble purpose. I just don't see it being that way due to the relatively small faction size and the lengths we go to to protect our sleeping brethren. The question then arises; if a group you are protecting turns on you to the point of risking your existence would ceasing protective actions really be an indicator of a lack of sincerity. In my mind it would be self preservation against an enemy that used to be a friend but doesn't mean the original intent of protection was false or because it was convienent at the time.
The whole thing gets a little stickier cause we take orders from the lotus. Because of what the devs say I do make the rather large assumption that lotus is giving us orders to the ends of directly protecting or keeping the two warring factions in constant conflict and balanced so neither can win. That way they are too busy fighting each other to really focus their attentions on those we want to keep them away from. At worst I think we are being mislead, really who knows what lotus wants.
In the end I make as many assumptions as the other side does, but I do so love these conversations and would be almost as excited to be proven wrong as I would be to be proven right. Odds are though it's somewhere in the middle.
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Do the tenno truly fight for them? When are these humans mentioned? Often the missions are to gain favor with the council or the demise of those who oppose or endanger the Tenno. Tenno are also only loyal to each other, not other factions. You make reference to WWII, did you forget the Allies partnered with Stalin, a force more evil than their enemy, Hitler? That is in this realm so lets set that aside for now.
The Orokin don't need to be assumed they were kind or even nice as a ruling body, though we know this.. The Tenno fought their wars and won them. The whole culture saw them as their heros, their saviors, and the Tenno are the ones who murdered those who welcomed them with open arms and praises. So for all the evils that the Orokin are, the Tenno was not just Orokin as well, but the most blood drenched of them.
The info about humans came from a live stream. The question was asked if there were regular humans in the galaxy who weren't corpus or grineer the devs said "of course there are who do you think you are fighting to protect". This was total shift for me, up until that point I thought the Tenno were villians too. How do we know the orokin were benevolent? I'm not even sure the orokin were human. I picture them as an outside force that "elevated" humans which in sci-fi typically amounts to slavery with a shinier name. Could be wrong though.
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His commons are his justification if you listen. As for 'oppressive culture' the Tenno were the heros of this possible 'oppressive culture' and murdered those who loved them the most, what does that speak of them? The Stalker comments often about justice for the Tenno's crimes and that he remembers them. The stalker is a judge and executioner, not a innocent and naive hero against a villain.[/]
It comes down to a matter of perspective I suppose. The stalker is judge and executioner by his own words, but how many villains have fiction and the real world given us that were completely convinced they were the good guys? I come down on the side of the people in the galaxy who would be most similar to myself as such the Tenno are heroes and the other factions are evil. I will say that one of the only things we know about the orokin is that they were capable of surgically removing free will leaving sentient creatures as little more than automatons. It is entirely possible that the Tenno had no choice in their service to the empire. They were beloved for their extermination of the sentient but i see no reason to assume they were trusted.
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Plot Twist!
(Yes, if you follow the plot, the anti-Tenno would be the good guys, as the Lotus is evil. She sends Tenno out on murder assignments against those who would oppose her, order the deaths of countless to halt the healing of their race, sends Tenno on assignments to gain favor with other groups which we have never met [the council], often assigns kidnappings for interrogations. Also with the Lore offered form the stalker, the Tenno murdered the very ones who sang praises to them and who saw them as loyal warriors to their kingdoms. To kill those who trusted them most, how are the Tenno not the Evil ones?)
The Tenno fight to protect the last humans in the galaxy against those who would exploit them dry (the corpus), enslave them (grineer), or assimilate them (the infested). Assuming the lotus is evil is a stretch (she may be but the game doesn't provide enough to draw any conclusions). War is terrible and terrible things happen in them, that doesn't mean that the side doing them is inherently evil. I point you to WWII it's not like the allies shot rainbows that turned axis soldiers into dancing pixies. That being said there is evidence to support notions that the orokin were at least as calloused and oppressive as the grineer. I don't see why we should automatically assume that they were some great heroes or that a self deluded lunatic who worships them is one either.
Warframe, A Couple Of Things That Don't Make Sense.
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by NevanChambers
From the livestreams.
-Tenno are good guys
-there are normal people not members of either faction
-the Tenno fight to protect those people.
When framed with these facts things get a little easier. The corpus want to exploit those people and the grineer want to enslave them. The Tenno are small and weak in comparison to the juggernauts so the only choice they have is to keep the two forces in constant stalemate to keep them from focusing on either themselves or their charges.
Things are getting a little out of whack with the detron and how people are farming that, but something Steve said makes me think that this was intentional and that they are setting up "grave consequences" to befall the galaxy.