[Option to vote kick players]

2 hours ago, AlMcFly said:

Please.  Do not be that cliche internet person who implies someone being "bothered" by something must not function properly in real life.  Appeal to Emotion implying that this is affecting my emotional state, therefore my argument is subject to question.  A bit of Ad Hominem for trying to use my reaction as a person to detract from position formulated from my own personal point of view.  Also, likely Hypocritical or Dishonest for trying to convince your internet audience that you've never once been frustrated or angry at a single thing in videogames, thus your "brain chemistry" is superior to mine in question.  Give me a break.  

Is that a successful tactic?  When talking to a friend in real life, do you say "Bro, how do you even function in your day to day life if you get angry after stubbing your toe?!? Personally I don't get angry over that, so you probably shouldn't."  it implies that nobody should be angry about the things you care little for.  It's arrogant and purposefully disparaging to other's viewpoints.  Not to mention detracting from the topic at hand.  

Not a tactic, not a ploy, just my honest outlook.

IMO, some people take these things too seriously, even when they have the tools at hand to mitigate the terrors of having to game with people not good enough for them.

IMO, there is a huge difference in having frustration at mission gone awry, I think you said 1 once day, and advocating vote kick to change the game.

I am arguing the reason for adding a vote kick is an emotional response to an emotional outlook that I do not share.

You find that to be abhorrent. OK.

[Option to vote kick players]

3 minutes ago, AlMcFly said:

I like this post, despite it not agreeing with me. 

I just want to point out, nobody is saying "Leeching is a problem, even though I can solo this mission."  Personally I barely even notice if I am playing a mission that is so easy, it's laughable.  I am saying "Leeching is a major problem when you NEED someone contributing."  THAT is when it becomes infuriating.  Not everyone in the game is godlike.  When a PUG teammate and I are a Defense Mission with enemies all level 100+, and through cheese-tactics I get chain-Bombarded or chain-Imbalanced until my health drops due to some Crit proc.  I immediately start looking around for the location of the teammate I haven't seen for the last five minutes, only to see they are 300m away hiding behind some pillar not moving, while our Defense target is quickly losing health due to being attacked...needless to say it gets INFURIATING.  

To use your own phrasing, IME, I see a leeching teammate at least once every single night of the week.  During events, 50% of every PUG has a leeching teammate.  Just because it isn't always a problem, doesn't mean we should be accepting of the behavior this encourages.  

While I empathize with your outlook, my own brain chemistry is such that what seems to 'infuriate' you and other gamers simply has no noticable negative impact on my emotional state.

I just don't care in the way some people seem to be wired to get emotionally impacted by these things.

I simply put the bad player on ignore or whatever, finish the mission if I/we can and drop if not.

Just being completely and totally honest here.

If I allowed the actions or inactions of other players in the games I play to influence my emotional state, I would never be able to begin to deal with the rest of life in a rational manner. In my personal opinion, it is simply unhealthy to become attached to the events in a video game at that level.

In this specicifc case, I see the tool in question to be one more used by overly-invested players _in the long run_ which is the _real_ issue.

Sure, at the start, since if we go with the claim there are so many AFKers, they get kicked/blacklisted/whatever.

Then what?

After the initial wave of potentially changing the player-base, still a stretch based on anecdotal evidence, and the AFKers have been dealt with...we are back to a tool that gets used more by elitists than people just playing the game who _might_ be reasonable enought to only kick for the right reasons?

Now we hacked off some portion of the playerbase because some people thought they were leeches...

Now we hack off the players still learning/trying/casually playing/etc. because (even a few) elitists start using the tool, propagating the whole 'play the meta or GTFO' game.

So, vote kick is, IMO/E, just another mechanism for overly-invested people to make other play 'thier way'.

IMO, any of the right reasons to kick or remove rewards can be done programatically, because I have played those games...

Allowing the Internet Warriors another tools is just not on my todo list... 🙂 

If there was no way to make private groups, then perhaps, since there was no other way, but not is not the case here.

[Option to vote kick players]

The incredible civility and reasonable discourse within just this thread shows how much repect and patience players have for each other...

The level of love/hate about the topic alone is enough to keep any sane developer from even discussing it for fear of getting fired.

Unless it can be fiscally/reputationally proven not having said mechanic is losing money/players of the game, then why add any mechanic that is surrounded by such irrational emotion and crazy theories on boths sides of the argument?

We can all post all day long about our individual anecdotal encounters, they don't mean jack.

IME, playing online since MUDs, vote-kick for anything other than link problems or similar is a fraction of the times I have seen it used.

IME, vote kick is used by elitist trolls that think they own the games they play 'better' than everyone else.

Not the right meta? Kick. Not the right ...? Kick. Our fourth friend showed up...Kick.

Again, my singular experience means nothing, but if I had a vote, it would be No, because I hate the elitists that try to make a game turn into work and then try and force everyone lese to play that way.

Personally, I have played _this_ game about 4 days now and I have not yet even ventured beyond solo mode, so the community here could be excellent to each other, I have no idea, other than the glorious forums we are interacting on now.

In general, I take personal responcibility, so I simple leave online groups that are causing me to have an unpleasant experience during my super-happy-fun-times playing video games. 

Life is too short to entertain jerks, be they trolls, elitists, or just pushy-busy-bodies.

Play your way, mine is just to drop out and/or put the jerks on ignore, especially the ones yelling about having to 'carry' someone not as awesome as they are.

[New Player base]

Isn't the whole idea of actually playing a game to figure it out the point?

I am really having a tough time with some of the viewpoints on player retention.

This is a grindy game based on playing the game to advance and gaining stuff to do it better...that's it.

I just do not understand the 'overwhelming' line of thought very much...

Pick a system, learn it, move on to the next - in other words, just play the game and make more stuff to play the game.

What is the point of somehow learning everything there is to know about the game before playing it?

Why would I need to know about advanced trading techniques for things I cannot even get yet as a new player?

I know not everyone approaches things the same way, but this idea that someonw has to completey grok the entire game to keep playing rings vry hollow to me.

IMO, some people will like the game and other will not.

The players that like the game should be encouraged to stay and those that do not, encouraged to try it again sometime.

'Convincing' someone to play a game is just...wierd to me.

 

 

 

[How to prevent losses from illegal platinum trades? (plats from re-sellers, reimbursed purchases, etc)]

Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt. FUD propaganda.

IMO that is all threads of this nature spread.

There are bad people in the world.

Some of them are going to try and take advantage of you and any company they think they can.

Some of them are going to get buyers remorse.

Some of them just like using the consumer rules to punish people in the world that have done better than they have out of envy and greed.

Expecting any Internet based gaming company to somehow act like a vested bank in it's interaction with consumer money is just crazy talk.

This is and will remain an issue not of online gaming, but of human culture.

Anyone expecting DE to fix the bad people on the planet is not thinking clearly, IMO.

I have been actively working in the Collections and Recovery channel for 20+ years.

Professional scammers cost all of us time and money - it is the nature of the human societies we have created.

It sucks, we all know it sucks, but there is no Easy Button to stop bad people.

[Barrier to Entry: Getting New Players into the Game]

10 hours ago, iuki. said:

I think the problem is that there is no variety at the start, you are stuck in the same frame for weeks and that, to some people, is a real drag. Maybe they could give the new player all the starters in a quest line or something that is prebuilt (or easier to procur). After that you have to earn the rest, there is so many frames now that I don't think it will really matter to plat sales? Idk. This gives the new player 3 frames to play with which I think would hook them much more reliably. Just a thought.

I will say I got the free Prime through the Twitch Prime offer last night, literally a couple missions short of getting Volt to 30.

Just hit like 4 days of playing.

As long as there are 'extra' ways to get free Primes, I think a new player can acquire those.

IMO, the 'need' to switch frames, like character classes, varies greatly as well...I love lightning, no desire to stop using Volt, even though I know I have to use other frames to progress...

[Barrier to Entry: Getting New Players into the Game]

23 minutes ago, QuantumSymphony said:

I think it would be ok if the three starter Frames were farmable immediately on Venus, Mercury or Earth with shortened craft times.  Maybe that could be the tutorial as the Lotus guides you to three mini-bosses that drop starter frame blueprints.  It kind of annoys me that I can only get Volt through the Dojo since I didn't pick him as a starter.  But everything else should stay the same, and there should be a pop-up stating that all other warframes take longer to craft.

Being a brand new player as mentioned and not really having any difficulty getting into the game, with only my starting Volt at 20 so far, personally, I would still get behind having 'more immediate access' to the other starter frames, perhaps after I fully level the first one. This implies I might already get some of that?

I can see where getting the starter frames quickly would give a new player a leg up without unbalancing anything and get them going down the path of experimenting, etc...

My PoV is simply that at least some of us did not see a barrier to entry, only a game that could suck away our free time. 🙂

Therefore, nothing against giving newbies some love, especially since they are chasing the Switch owners, but IMO I don't see barriers, just some impatience to 'get tto the good stuff' when it's all good from the start...

I am a self-aware, cranky old gamer though and I know my way is by far not the only way. 🙂 

[please do not make us pay for Umbras like we do for primes!]

28 minutes ago, Whitestrake0 said:

Do you even know what I typed. Plat can have discounts which is why it's so high in price for so little, cause they base their prices on the discounts they can give out. 50% and 75% is a huge cut. Prime access on the other hand will ALWAYS be overpriced cause you can't get discounts for them.

One person cannot define value for another in this case.

Overpriced implies the items are priced higher than the subjective value.

The entire idea that any one person can define the subjective value of these items for other is non-starter.

Now, if one wants to argue that there are less expesive ways to acquire items, great, but that is not the same thing as telling others what they find valuable.

[Barrier to Entry: Getting New Players into the Game]

I have seen this discussion for most every long running MMO in some form.

IMO, the disconnect lies in the fact the 'masses/average modern Internet gamer' thinks all games should be as easy to pick up and master as Doom.

Pretty much all modern games take the player by the hand.

Large, rich, complex multi-player games like WF will simply never fit that bill.

Add to the the often constant droning of 'you just _have_ to have this item/armor/frame/level' before the 'game gets good' and you get frustrated players that were lead to think they can 'be competitive like in other games' in a day.

So, I really do think the idea of making any game more accessible is awesome, but I also think you can never make a game like this as accessible as Doom.

[Barrier to Entry: Getting New Players into the Game]

Also, the 3.5 days to craft something...

I am an old gamer. 3.5 days in the hopper for a new shiny is 'in the blink of an eye' for me.

I have a hard time even interacting with people that might think 3.5 days is a long time, especially for a free thing that you just wait to get.

The other side of the coin is that to explain _all_ of the complexity of the game at once would be overwhelming IMO to many players.

Allowing people to organically explore the game, IMO, means a more impactful experience for the player as well as allowing each person to bite off the parts they can chew as they like.

The entire idea of a game leading you by the nose from start to finish is just not my kind of game.

While more information is usually always nice, the only thing I actually looked up out of this game were comments on where to spend Plat, which I do for any game like this and a couple broad ideas about the find the blueprint/make the gear cycle.

I think there are a lot of gamers now that, like many movie goers, want to know the whole plot before they start the game or movie and just follow a guide. That, to me, is not playing a game, it is just following instructions to assemble a 'toon'.

Exploration and experimentation are _part_ of a good gaming experience to me, while others call it 'wasting time and resources' if they craft a sub-optimal item, because they have been lead to think 'optimal' is the meaning of 'viable' and are conned by players into thinking they are not 'good enough'.

Give a person a guide and they can finish a game, give a person the tools to think on thier own and you have made a new gamer...

[Barrier to Entry: Getting New Players into the Game]

Just loaded the game over the weekend.

I am a long-time gamer/MMO-er.

I have not found the experience to be anything but fun.

Yes, after a few starting mission the game does not keep holding your hand, but it is very straightforward.

Do missions, find stuff, make new frames and weapons, do more missions.

I do realize that someone new to gaming in general or who had never played similar games might get lost in a few places, but from my PoV, I do not see any sort of barriers.

Now, that is _not_ the same thing as 'getting to max level where the fun starts' is daunting to new players.

People play for different reasons.

If someone is playing _only_ to be on the leaderboards, then IMO, all MMO-ish games have a catch-up curve.

So, I see no barriers.

[please do not make us pay for Umbras like we do for primes!]

Just started playing.

First post here.

I am so very happy to see that there are entitled people not only complaining about a great game, but complaining about having to get new (free) stuff the same way they got the old (free) stuff, in a (free) game.

The Internet never fails to deliver quality messages from people that think they know everything and 'worry' about the trivialities of happy fun-time computer games.

it warms my cockles.