BeardyKyle
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Posts posted by BeardyKyle
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7 hours ago, UltimateGrr said:
If you're casting Reckoning twice and only striping 60% armor, then you're doing something terribly wrong with your build. Reckoning is the only armor strip in the game that works exclusively off base armor instead of current armor levels, which means a 170% STR Oberon can fully strip ALL armor from a target with 250 power before efficiency mods.
I said at base.
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19 hours ago, (XB1)RPColten said:
Again, all the 'exposure' gimick is doing is adding a scaling mechanic onto abilities that don't need any more scaling than they possess.
It would also induce even more 'forced synergy' which you commented on as being an issue with Hallowed Ground. How does more forced synergy solve a problem of forced synergy? Surely it would preferable to make Hallowed Ground no longer a necessary function, but a complimentary one?
However, what I think the issue here is that we are looking at Oberon under different viewpoints. We clearly don't agree what his intended role is, so we won't agree on what is best for the kit. I believe Oberon is meant to be a fighter that supports allies through buffs and debuffs, not a dedicated healer, tank or damage-dealer. I see him as needing to support his allies, and I believe that goal is met well with the current kit. Should his role be intended for damage, then yes Smite and Reckoning would need upgrades.
at the core, i see oberon as he was initially presented, a druid-paladin hybrid. That's why I think his kit should reflect both offense and support. The synergy i suggest wouldn't force you to use one ability to create synergy but rather have synergy be the result of using all of your abilities freely.
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17 minutes ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:
Not that I've played Nidus but from what from RPColten is saying, it sounds like you are trying to make Oberon play like Nidus in which case just play Nidus.
Other than energy economy with respect to team play, Oberon is as complete as a warframe can get. He keeps teams alive, CCs and does high single target damage.
1It's pretty similar to Nidus, I'd say it's more similar to the new Saryn. I wasn't able to flesh it out properly in my original post but here goes.
Where Nidus just has to group targets and hit them with his 1 and Saryn has to keep her spore count up by casting 1 strategically.
Oberon would have to either:
- Essentially proc himself on HG to gain "exposure"
- Be in proximity to Radiated enemies when they die to increase exposure. (Enemies must be radiated when they die)
The main differences:
Where Nidus and Saryn can scale practically infinitely, up to 999,999 or whatever it is, and Nidus loses stacks when he takes lethal damage or uses his 4 and Saryn loses stacks as the spores disappear.
Oberon's exposure would be a %, once at 100% Exposure, he's getting the maximum buffs that he can get for all his abilities.
Exposure reduces gradually over-time unless replenished. Using 4 drains exposure but also buffs it significantly.
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22 hours ago, (XB1)RPColten said:
What problems do these proposed changes aim to solve though?
The interaction between Renewal and summoned allies should be looked at, but the rest? I am not convinced there are any significant problems with the kit that a baked in Nidus stack counter would fix.
His abilities already scale. Radiation damage scales. Status immunity is infinitely scaling. Armour shredding is always beneficial. For goodness sake even Smites direct damage scales off enemy health & shields Oberon does not need any more of an innate scaling mechanic.
1To nitpick here, Radiation only scales in the sense that enemies attacking each other won't attack you...but enemies attacking each other don't do much damage. Then we have 3 of his abilities doing the same proc with no real benefit to his play style. HG does the proc the best for the cost, so Reckoning and Smite are practically redundant in this one aspect.
Smite does scale but does so Very poorly, 35% divided among 12 orbs is about 3% per orb at high power strength - and at some point that 3% will be more damage than the initial attack.
At higher levels, Reckoning doesn't do good damage unless you either cast twice to get the Radiation buff Or Cast with HG to get the armor strip - in most cases you'd want to do both anyway - at base that's 250 energy to strip 60% armor and still not kill enemies in a lot of cases since the armor strip occurs after base damage. So after all that, you probably still end up killing enemies with your weapons - which makes the health orb drop unless. Basically, it just doesn't Feel like an ultimate attack. The interaction with HG and Reckoning makes his kit feel restricted, even though they buffed both abilities to do a lot more.
Honestly, his abilities are fine. They're just boring to play now - This is coming from someone playing Oberon almost exclusively since he was released.
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In his current state Oberon is a decent healing and pseudo-tank, although that falls off at later levels where damage is high enough to one-shot him. His damage abilities fall off way before that and his CC abilities are good but redundant.
Let's look at some of the problems IMO:
- Renewal: Energy drain on Renewal is massive at times. (Teammates taking too much damage or Nekros in a squad), Armor buff is appreciated but not quite effective at higher levels.
- Reckoning: Armor strip requires either having max Strength OR spamming it to be useful. It's CC mechanic is redundant to HG and It's, Damage buff requires casting it twice to get the most out of it.
- Smite: Used to be one of the better 1s in the game but is now barely used, since HG handles CC well enough.
- HG: is less of a Synergy skill and more of a Requirement for the rest of his kit
How'd I'd change him:
- Introduce a Radiation Exposure Level Counter: As the level goes up his abilities get stronger or gain additional effects
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How the Exposure counter increases (placeholder values):
- Standing on HG increases exposure level at 2 points per second (Having Renewal active increases rate x2)
- Every Rad status inflicted by HG increases stack x1 per second per enemy = 12 points per enemy
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Each Rad Status inflicted by Smite increases stack by 2 and an additional 2 per orb that inflict rad as well = Potential 26 per enemy
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How the Exposure counter affects abilities - Each time exposure reaches a new threshold there is a benefit but using certain abilities above the threshold will cost exposure in addition to energy:
- Every 100 Exposure: Smite Orbs deal an additional 2% of target's health/shields as damage (Divided among all orbs) and have a higher chance to proc
- Once above 300: Renewal cost for allies is drained from Exposure instead of energy
- Every 500 - Renewal gains 3% Damage reflection and drains 3 exposure per second while HG gains 5% additional damage and drains 20 exposure per cast
- At 500 - Reckoning has a 50% chance to inflict an additional random status (instead of dropping health on kill)
- For every 1000 - Reckoning deals 500 more damage but costs 500 exposure to cast
I'm certain there's some balancing issue I haven't thought about here so feel free to bring it up and I'll try to find a solution.
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On 2018-05-17 at 7:15 PM, KnightCole said:
Lol, Oberon is a better healer? Well, no S#&$? Hes a supporting hybrid frame. He has damage, but its not even remotely close to Nidus, and he has healing, but its not even remotely close to as good as Trinity. He has AoE but its not as good as other dedicated AoE frames.
Yeah, Oberon is fine. Nidus isnt meant to be a full on healer. Oberon's heal is good, but its nothing amazing. It will help your group stay alive, its sustained and infinite range if you will, but it also chews into his ability to use other abilities and if you get a nekros on your team, your fked completely. It also loses out in it's effectiveness in later stages of the game, where it gets completely negated due to the damage spikes. If anything, I think Oberon's heal could use a slight buff in it's amount. Ive got 254% power str and only get like 105/s or something.
Oberon is a good frame, needs nerfs? naw....but that could just be cuz I lubs my Oberon.
Nidus's thing is dealing assinine amounts of damage. I went into my only 99 minute survival and had a Nidus steady nuking entire rooms up to the 99 minute mark.....so what if he cant heal that well....
Came to derail this thread into a oberon buff thread. Like you said he's decent at healing and that falls off at higher levels and damage wise, he terrible.
sure he can strip armor but you have to build perfectly to get it done without spamming 4.
i think he should get a counter similar to nidus where when he inflicts a rad proc with his 1 or 2 the counter stack increases, then casting 3 or 4 drains some of the stack but increases both the armor and damage of those abilities. idea being to let him scale properly.
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15 minutes ago, peterc3 said:
Enemies fighting each other are not fighting you.
And this makes it good? It's just functional at best.
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2 hours ago, peterc3 said:
You mean like proc immunity? Does it need a buff icon for you to acknowledge that part of HG?
Rad procs already have a benefit. Why does Oberon need a buff here?
Calling Phoenix Renewal a mobility buff is absurd. Every Augment is a mobility buff if that is the case. Or you are asking for Exilus to basically be turned into an Augment slot, which isn't happening.
Proc immunity is laughable in most situations as a buff. Like I said it's offense he needs, a damage increase while on HG, to melee for instance since he never quite had anything to suit his paladin theme, which I hands down enjoy more that just a plain druid.
Rad proc's would be nice if enemies actually did any damage to each other. It's the worst CC in the game IMO. He needs a buff here because the only situation Rad procs benefit him is casting 4 twice OR casting 4 on HG (which you would be doing for the armor strip and not the extra rad damage, seeing as there's no guarantee all the enemies on HG will be proc'd)
Really my main problem with him now is having to mod him just right in order for reckonings armor strip not to take more than 1 cast, which is his only useful damage attack at higher levels, and you'll still have to cast it a second to to kill those enemies.
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20 hours ago, peterc3 said:
Buff Oberon because incoherent word salad. Great feedback, I'm sure DE will get right on that.
This is insanely bad logic.
i'll give you some actual feedback.
defensively he's in a good place with renewal but where he's lacking is offense. Having to cast his 2 and then his ultimate up to three times,depending on your build, to strip armor and do any respectable damage is ludicrous. also being on hallowed ground has no benefit anymore.
a. Give a buff for staying on hallowed ground
b. A buff against rad proc'd enemies
c. A way to strengthen his 4 that isn't just casting twice
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Guys this weapon is pretty great already. Modding for 100% Status (Corrosive and Heat) it can strip armor extremely fast while heat procs leave enemies CC'd and the Syndicate proc gives you Energy, a movement speed boost and deals 1000 Viral Dmg with 100% status chance over 25m. It's good against groups of enemies in close quarters and has no problem taking down lvl 100 enemies in a few seconds. Extra range would be a plus but as it is it's just optional and down to preference IMO.
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The combo system would benefit IMO from a second melee attack button...so you can actually combo...but as I've been told the way warframe is designed doesn't allow for that and it would be a huge undertaking to change it to that. Maybe instead have Channelling access different combo chains?
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3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Sheady said:
Look ill be honest with you, you're probably in the minority of players who call for needless nerfs to everything even remotely strong. Im sorry but spin attacks have been a thing for years and it is effective. Even more so now with maiming strike and berserk and again its effective. Same way that mesa is, that saryn is, and that every other good frame is. Do we nerf them all and revert back to lv 60s being needlessly hard for many players? MMOs are about clearing ads as quickly and as efficiently as possible, so why nerf something that isnt broken.
You're missing the point. We have stances and don't use them as they're intended to be used because spins are as good as they are. Anything in this game that makes grinding too easy, not engaging and completely trumps a whole mechanic will eventually get nerfed but something else will be put in place that plays better with the game play.
Whips will probably get nerfed at some point
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They've killed my favorite weapon. Well I suppose a corrosive or viral status build can't be that bad.
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I'll add my two cents before this thread dies completely.
Firstly, Shielded targets are Immune to Slash and Puncture procs.
Secondly, Status should have Yellow, Orange and Red levels like Crit as well.
Puncture: Puncture proc creates a hit box on the target with up to a 90% armor reduction. SIze and % reduction based on the weapon's puncture damage and status chance.
Impact: Impact does a stun, stagger, knockdown, ragdoll Based on the weapons status chance and impact damage. Impact procs also weaken shields by 30%.
Slash: Slash procs limited to Slash stat on the weapon but receives a multiplier based on the number of slash procs, status chance % and melee counter.
Elemental Changes: Elemental and combined elemental procs would do what they do now with the addition of a multiplier based on status chance %
with the addition that Toxin and by extension Gas procs ignore armor and shields.
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15 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:
Only against us Tenno; there's no accuracy loss for enemies affected by radiation. Only the confusion and friendly fire.
That means the game already implements a system in which enemy procs and Tenno procs are not the same.
Which is neither here nor there. For instance, we loose accuracy on that but puncture procs on Tenno I think don't last as long as they do on enemies.
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7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:
Slowing enemy speed is what cold does right now, and it makes sense. I do not see the relation between getting a hole in your armor and losing speed. The way DE said slash will work... What will it do for weapons with no slash damage that get slash procs based on their stances, like the Dark Dagger? 0 damage Slash proc? And I'd prefer for disarm or accuracy loss to be given to Magnetic procs so the element won't be as extremely underused as it is right now because it only affects the Corpus as it is. Instead, what do you think of the following changes:
- Impact, as the name implies, should knockback, deal the current Puncture proc that reduces damage (Because your coordination suffers when you are dizzy/stumbling), and increase crit damage/chance susceptibility due to internal bludgeoning damage.
- Puncture, as the name implies, should punch-through and strip/ignore armor, and create a damage hotspot (Gun) / increase damage multiplier (Melee).
- Slash should remain as it is now. The only change would be that you are no longer able to give slash procs to enemies while their shields are active (A small buff to the Corpus, so that Slash is longer the end-any-enemy damage type).
That way damage types are still distinct-enough.
Accuracy loss is also an effect of radiation procs already. Damage 3.0 would also have to take into account: Warframe abilities that deal IPS and eventually elemental damage as well. Not to mention any changes would affect status effects dealt by enemies to players.
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Let Oberon regain Energy from Irradiated enemies killed on Hallowed Ground.
I can say that the entire rework so far has been wonderful. Except for two things, the forced synergy and the energy cost as a direct result of that.
Adding an Armor Buff (even if it's the old % buff) and a Small Energy Regen from kills on irradiated targets on Hallowed Ground makes it useful by itself and increases the reward for using it in conjunction with Iron Renewal and Reckoning while removing the dependency to a degree and also addressing the energy drain.
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three things Oberon needs to be complete imo.
1. Add an armor buff back to HG, even if its a % increase.
2. If Oberon and an irradiated enemy are both on hallowed ground and oberon kills the enemy, he gets a small energy refund.
both of these add proper synergy to what exists now, gives you a reason to stay on hallowed ground and addresses the high energy consumption he now has.
3. Roll his old passive into his new one.
this imo, gives him a complete beastmaster passive that doesn't force you to use pets and plus new wildlife is coming and that's awesome.
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13 minutes ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:
I argue that an addition to an active ability allows more player input and utility than the previous passive since it wouldn't be a temporary effect. Before it was what, about 10 seconds of niche upon niche? My proposition for smite would allow the animal mobs to become members of your team until death, a more permanent and tangible effect than he previously had (plus his current passive would stack on the animals you control which sounds pretty neat). I agree in that I'm in favor of bringing the cat ladies a taste of their own medicine every time I play Oberon, but not the way it was before, and to me, a passive wouldn't allow enough player input regarding mob control.
true but it just seems like a tedius niche to have to cast to do that to single targets (not counting orbs because there's no guarantee they hit pets). I mean there's already Hallowed Ground that can proc a group of enemies potentially turning them. The passive just seems better to me. The player still has an amount of control over it, as in you know your range and how long it takes to turn pets and how long they stay on your side if they go out of range. Would be easier to tweak the AI of enemy pets under your control to function more like your own, or to stay closer to you and extend the duration - which I think is 20s after they go out of range, which was 20m i think - which isn't bad at all.
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3 minutes ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:
I know thats my point, I guess I should've clarified, smite would not do damage to animals, it would essentially work the same just as an activation since I know a lot of players really didn't like the passive. By giving them the option to choose if they want the animals to be a part of their team, it gives the player more freedom to experiment.
i think the only problem people had wiht the passive is not being able to kill them only they're under your control. Specifically your other teammates would run into that and end up wasting bullets cause if you're as oberon player you either avoid killing them to get the passive off, or you kill them before.
Either way, the passive really grew on me and I'd like it back, in addition to what he has now. Tbh I only use a huras kubrow for spy missions, otherwise it's all about Djinn.
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4 minutes ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:
Why not just:
I still can't entirety agree on the orb effect from previous renewal, this, although tedious as a toggle, is far more powerful. If I have to give up the infinite range of the old renewal for the benefits of the new one I wouldn't mind, the benefits seem to outweigh the cost and it also appears that DE wants to abandon the old renewal's mechanics so it's best we just work with what we got (though I agree infinite range is sorely missed and bleedout slow is now awkward)
casting energy on a single kavat/kubrow target to turn it to your side when your passive ability can do it just by being in range. Not to mention the smite cast will probably kill it anyway. The passive would be way better and its actually really fun turning grineer kubrows against them and watching them get mauled.
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That's all the change he needs right now to be finished.
Roll his old passive in.
Add armor to hallowed ground. Add energy refund for enemies killed on HG.
I'd even bring back the travelling orbs for renewal since it just has to reach your teammates once and stays active. Plus you'd be able to use the bleedout slow, which currently doesn't make sense.
Everything else isn't that bad considering its largely an improvement from before.
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1 hour ago, Grimmboski said:
that may be the feedback, that HE gets, but I spent the entire weekend on the Reddit going over feedback and collating them into feedback videos, and you know what the goal of that discussion was? adding nothing extraneous to his kit, and smoothing out his dependencies into true synergy. With that in mind we also asked for some way to gen energy that wasnt rage related, as we felt that tanking hits isn't a great idea for the sole way for him to maintain energy for a single ability. that doesn't sound to me like trying to bust Oberon into top OP, but trying to get him into B or B+ tier.
in fact, Im going to be even more specific and list out those most desired changes:
Base stats: Little more armor, Larger Energy Pool
Smite? Good. No real changes.
Hallowed Ground? Match Range to 18, and range scaling to Reckoning. Double Renewal heal per second, and Iron Skins value when its cast on Hallowed ground. Increase the proc chance of the radiation. Give energy refund for kills on Hallowed ground.
Renewal: Reduce the channel cost per person to a flat cost, with the prior change to hallowed ground in mind, reduce the heal, heal per second and Iron renewal buff by 30% when not cast on hallowed ground
Reckoning: increase range to 18 and match range scaling to hallowed ground. Make armor strip independent of hallowed ground and affect all irradiated targets instead. double the value of armor strip and damage to targets on hallowed ground. decrease spawn of health orbs to 25%. Make their spawn chance dependent on enemies effected or killed during its secondary effect.
This sounds like a much more effective, cohesive, SYNERGISTIC but not DEPENDENT , kit that encourages the FULL use of Oberons kit, NOT stacking the current renewal passive and trying to rage tank like Inaros or Chroma, or Nidus, and so on. I dont know about you, but this sounds less like asking for an S tier <Loki Level> Frame, and more like asking for a B+, hell an A- frame similar to equinox, Trinity, or Inaros.
his currently most effective builds as advertised by AGGP and Xeno are all about massive powerstr, low eff, and face tanking their way through the mission as best they can by stacking Iron renewals and hoping the damage output doesn't overwhelm the armor and health per second. This isn't a healthy solution, this should be considered a focused durability build outlier, not his only viable end game build, because, as I have stated before, its prohibitive to use the rest of his kit with that build, as you need every second of Iron renewal you can get.
As a player who's Favourite frame is actually Oberon. I agree with most of this. If I could add/change a few things though:
Instead of reducing Renewal's healing and Iron Renewal's buff while not on Hallowed Ground. I'd simply reinstate the armor buff to Hallowed Ground - as a flat buff. So essentially you still get an increased buff from using them Together but either one done alone would still provide an armor bonus - and now having to stay on hallowed ground for it's buff wouldn't be nearly as big an issue as before because of the range increase, the flat number increased armor buff and the fact that you can move away off it while still maintaining Iron Renewal. I think this would be better since you can keep Renewal up and simply recast Hallowed Ground when you need that extra armor - and seeing as Hallowed Ground is now essential to his kit, this isn't a big deal. Plus, the energy refund from killing targets on HG would so allow for this to work.
Even if the range on Hallowed Ground and Reckoning aren't increased/matched - Energy refunds for kills on HG and Reckoning stripping armor on irradiated targets is a great idea.
Finally, I'd actually like his old passive to be rolled into the new one. For two reasons, it was liked by a lot of people and we always expected DE to add new wildlife to the game, which they are now. Secondly, his current passive forces you to use a pet and some of us prefer sentinels. TBH they are both underwhelming individually and rolling them together in a full "Beastmaster" passive doesn't sound like too much to ask for.
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Alright Oberon's my favourite frame since he came out. Played around with the rework and now I'll give my ideas of what the pros and cons it are:
Pros:
- Smite scaling and hot fix changes. Nicely done.
- Synergy - Renewal giving armor while on Hallowed Ground, excellent.
- Synergy - Reckoning stripping a fair amount of armor to anything on hallowed ground, great.
- Increased Range on Hallowed Ground, lovely
Cons:
- Energy consumption. Oberon has a small energy pool, he is already a spammy frame - Typically with Renewal and Reckoning. Now Hallowed Ground is also the bread and butter of his kit and Renewal is a constant drain - it's extremely easy to run out of energy even with Primed Flow and Rage. Especially since his synergies are mandatory and his duration and efficiency is not easy to mod for. Yes, you could manage your energy but his powers are simply not strong enough to not be constantly casting.
- Hallowed Ground's armor buff was removed. I think this was a very bad idea. Considering the range was increased this should definitely be kept, since it was a big problem for me. Adding a decent armor buff to hallowed ground would not only fix a bit of the energy drain issues but remove some mandatory synergy issues as well. Since his EHP is not notably high, there's no reason why he can't have two armor giving abilities that synergize - especially since the trade off is being on hallowed ground
- His old passive was meh, but interesting and some of us liked it - especially since we were under the impression more wildlife would be added to the game. His new passive is also meh, and more so considering not all of us like using pets over sentinels.
- While renewal being channeled is nice, it is still affected by negative duration, which affects Hallowed Ground - the glue of his kit. Not to mention the energy drain again because of that.
Can't download the update 23. Server problem?
in General Discussion
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same problem, 300mb more and with every few mbs downloaded this msg pops up and I have to restart it. I noticed it's only through steam...running the launcher as admin without steam seems to work fine...but that starts the download back at 3000mb.