Qriist
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Posts posted by Qriist
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On 2023-10-15 at 4:36 PM, (NSW)warfare3376 said:
its not that shield gate builds arent so better, its that the other options are so much worse and have always been unviable.
On 2023-10-15 at 3:02 AM, (NSW)warfare3376 said:health tank build have never once been viable in those crazy high lvl runs
On 2023-10-16 at 9:13 AM, (NSW)AegisFifi said:I said the same thing to a friend in a discussion about shield gating and high level and he stated that it's perfectly possible to endure cap level without shield gating, by just face tanking... 🤔 ...🤣 ... He said that I was exagerating and that I was making cap level seem harder than it really is.
Even though I haven't done cap level for a very long time (only a few times in a 4-players squad when I was a student), I know that there are only three ways to survive on cap level : invisibility, invulnerability and shield gate (CC was the fourth, but with the new Eximus it is no more as efficient as before). Even before reaching cap level, face tanking (EHP only) is not enough. Even in the Circuit, where we can have some extra DR, face tanking is not enough. The enemies' damage multipliers scale always the same way (no matter if you are on normal mode, steel path, the circuit) and only one hit can kill you.
None of this is true.
I will admit that face tanking at level cap is probably substantially more difficult because you have to pay attention to the game but it's definitely doable, at least in the Circuit.
I've taken my non-shieldgating Mesa to level cap in a Circuit run with half the squad bailing an hour earlier.
I've also comfortably taken my Saryn and Gyre and Xaku and Citrine and Titania up to at least the 5,000s in Circuit. Of these, only Gyre could be considered a shieldgate build because I use Pillage to strip armor, but I practically guarentee you I don't employ the same frantic ability spam shieldgaters do.
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1 hour ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:
We finally got an answer about Overshields interacting with shield gate :
loool that's like the worst of all possible worlds for the people who swear by shieldgating as their sole means of survival.
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On 2023-09-28 at 12:02 PM, [DE]Taylor said:
Base vs Final Stats in Modding - Health / Energy / Shield / Armor Stat Overhaul
With tomorrow's massive stat overhaul looming large, I thought it would be interesting to observe how my build numbers fluctuate without me doing anything.
I've went ahead and recorded the stats of the frames I use, to include the mods/arcanes/shards which generated the numbers.
Since many of my builds have Arcane Blessing and/or Arcane Reaper I have provided a Min / Max value on Health and Armor. On a similar note, I have Amber Archon shards in multiple frames buffing the starting Energy so that stat reads as Starting / Max values. I haven't bothered with shield values unless I modded shield capacity for some reason.
There's a good mix of survivability sources throughout all of the frames which should allow me to identify any unexpected interactions caused by the overhaul.
CitrineQuoteArchon Flow, Archon Vitality, Arcane Blessing, Tauforged Amber +45% Starting Energy
Pre-
- Health 999 / 2199
- Armor 250
- Energy 304 / 510
- EHP 1832 / 4032
Post-
- Health 1000 / 2200
- Armor 265
- Energy 305 / 513
- EHP 1883 / 4143
Excalibur UmbraQuoteUmbral Intensify, Umbral Fiber, Umbral Vitality, Arcane Blessing, Arcane Reaper
Pre-
- Health 1070 / 2270
- Armor 877 / 1537
- Energy 100 / 225
- EHP 4198 / 13900
Post-
- Health 1036 / 2236
- Armor 882 / 1542
- Energy 100 / 225
- EHP 2236 / 13729
GyreQuotePrimed Flow, Arcane Blessing, Tauforged Azure +225 Armor
Pre-
- Health 300 / 1500
- Armor 325
- Energy 145 / 680
- EHP 625 / 3125
Post-
- Health 370 / 1570
- Armor 330
- Energy 145 / 684
- EHP 777 / 3297
Harrow PrimeQuoteVitality, Primed Flow, 2x Azure +150 Armor
Pre-
- Health 740
- Armor 475
- Energy 531 / 531
- EHP 1912
Post-
- Health 740
- Armor 485
- Energy 541 / 541
- EHP 1936
Hildryn PrimeQuoteArchon Vitality, Redirection, Boreal's Hatred, Vigor, Arcane Blessing
Pre-
- Health 860 / 2060
- Armor 300
- Shield 5035
- Overshield 6235
- EHP 1720 / 4120
Post-
- Health 924 / 2124
- Armor 315
- Shield 5922
- Overshield 7122
- EHP 1894 / 4354
KullervoQuoteUmbral Riber, Umbral Vitality, Umbral Intensify, R2 Flow, Arcane Blessing, Arcane Reaper
Pre-
- Health 3477 / 4677
- Armor 1275 / 1935
- Energy 150 / 338
- EHP 18254 / 34844
Post-
- Health 3374 / 4574
- Armor 1820 / 2480
- Energy 150 / 338
- EHP 23842 / 42385
Mesa Prime
QuotePrimed Flow, Archon Vitality, Steel Fiber
Pre-
- Health 999
- Armor 262
- Energy 65 / 550
- EHP 1871
Post-
- Health 1000
- Armor 270
- Energy 65 / 561
- EHP 1900
Mirage Prime
QuotePrimed Flow
Pre-
- Health 240
- Armor 175
- Energy 150 / 638
- EHP 380
Post-
- Health 300
- Armor 185
- Energy 150 / 641
- EHP 485
Nekros PrimeQuotePhysique, Arcane Blessing
Pre-
- Health 390 / 1590
- Armor 125
- Energy 85 / 188
- EHP 553 / 2253
Post-
- Health 444 / 1644
- Armor 135
- Energy 85 / 190
- EHP 643 / 2383
Nezha PrimeQuoteArchon Vitality, Primed Flow, Arcane Blessing
Pre-
- Health 925 / 2125
- Armor 250
- Energy 150 / 638
- EHP 1696 / 3896
Post-
- Health 930 / 2130
- Armor 265
- Energy 150 / 641
- EHP 1751 / 4011
Octavia PrimeQuotePrimed Flow, Arcane Blessing, Amber Archon Shard +30% Starting Energy, 2x Azure +150 Armor
Pre-
- Health 300 / 1500
- Armor 450
- Energy 328 / 744
- EHP 750 / 3750
Post-
- Health 370 / 1570
- Armor 460
- Energy 331 / 755
- EHP 937 / 3977
ProteaQuoteArchon Vitality, Primed Flow
Pre-
- Health 740 / 1940
- Armor 125
- Energy 95 / 638
- EHP 1048 / 2748
Post-
- Heatlh 740 / 1940
- Armor 135
- Energy 95 / 641
- EHP 1073 / 2813
Saryn PrimeQuotePhysique, Primed Flow, Umbral Vitality, Umbral Intensify, Arcane Blessing, Amber +30% Starting Energy
Pre-
- Health 1175 / 2375
- Armor 300
- Energy 355 / 850
- EHP 2350 / 4750
Post-
- Health 1162 / 2362
- Armor 315
- Energy 356 / 855
- EHP 2382 / 4842
Titania PrimeQuoteBoreal's Hatred, Primed Flow, Archon Vitality, Amber +30% Starting Energy
Pre-
- Health 925
- Armor 125
- Energy 328 / 744
- Shield 450
- EHP 1310
Post-
- Health 930
- Armor 135
- Energy 331 / 755
- Shield 611
- EHP 1348
Valkyr Prime
QuoteUmbral Intensify, Umbral Fiber, Arcane Blessing
Pre-
- Health 300 / 1500
- Armor 1662
- Energy 225
- EHP 1962 / 9810
Post-
- Health 370 / 1570
- Armor 1690
- Energy 105 / 225
- EHP 2454 / 10414
Vauban Prime
QuotePrimed Flow, Arcane Blessing
Pre-
- Health 300 / 1500
- Armor 200
- Energy 120 / 638
- EHP 500 / 2500
Post-
- Health 370 / 1570
- Armor 210
- Energy 120 / 641
- EHP 629 / 2669
Wukong PrimeQuotePrimed Flow, Archon Vitality, Arcane Blessing, Arcane Reaper
Pre-
- Health 1110 / 2310
- Armor 275 / 935
- Energy 65 / 553
- EHP 2128 / 9510
Post-
- Health 1110 / 2310
- Armor 290 / 950
- Energy 65 / 556
- EHP 2183 / 9625
XakuQuotePrimed Flow, Arcane Blessing, Tauforged Azure +75 Energy Max, Amber +30% Starting Energy
Pre-
- Health 291 / 1491
- Armor 137
- Energy 272 / 725
- EHP 2172
Post-
- Health 359 / 1559
- Armor 146
- Energy 274 / 730
- EHP 533 / 2317
One of my main pets as of late is a Hound (Garmr/Hec/Urga/Wanz) that I've built to be super tanky. He uses Link-Health, Link-Armor, and Synth Fiber to buff its health and armor stats. These are each dynamically updated while in combat but I have handjammed expected Max Armor values based on wiki information due to it being basically impossible to check armor values outside the arsenal.
HP is much easier to check so I will show the observed Min / Max.
Galvanic Paw
QuoteLink-Health, Link-Armor, Synth Fiber
Max Pet Armor formula:
(base_armor + (warframe_current_armor * 1.10)) * 2In this specific pet, base_armor = 180.
The above expression assumes Synth Fiber is active. Per the wiki, Synth Fiber doubles armor after Link Armor is considered.Because Link Armor takes the Warframe's full current armor value, I have naturally plugged in the given Warframe's Max armor value, if available, for the pet's Max armor. In the data below, this particular caveat applies to Excalibur Umbra, Kullervo, and Wukong.
I have not applied a given frame's Warcry armor bonus, even though 4 of my frames use it. In theory, a pet with Link Armor double dips on Warcry (by gaining armor through Link Armor and its own active Warcry buff) but I have absolutely no way to see that value to know where in the formula the buff might apply.
Finally, the arsenal floors the displayed result so I will too.
(template used below)
Accompanied Warframe
Hound Starting HP / with R5 Arcane Blessing x50
Hound Starting Armor / Max Armor
Hound Min EHP / Max EHPPre -> Post
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Citrine
Health: 1778 / 3758 -> 1703 / 3203
Armor: 455 / 1361 -> 871 / 1525
EHP: 4475 / 20807 -> 6647 / 19485 -
Excalibur Umbra
Health: 1895 / 3875 -> 1748 / 3248
Armor: 1144 / 3741 -> 1642 / 4742
EHP: 9121 / 52196 -> 11315 / 54588 -
Gyre
Health: 625 / 2605 -> 916 / 2416
Armor: 537 / 1541 -> 952 / 1725
EHP: 1744 / 15986 -> 3823 / 16308 -
Harrow Prime
Health: 1351 -> 1378
Armor: 702 / 1904 -> 1146 / 2112.5
EHP: 4512 / 9925 -> 6642 / 11081 -
Hildryn Prime
Health: 1549 / 3529 -> 1608 / 3108
Armor: 510 / 1482 -> 933 / 1687.5
EHP: 4182 / 20962 -> 6609 / 20590 -
Kullervo
Health: 5867 / 7847 -> 4671 / 6171
Armor: 1582 / 4617 -> 2814 / 7100
EHP: 36806 / 128612 (not a typo lol)
-> 48485 / 152218 (still not a typo) -
Mesa Prime
Health: 1778 -> 1703
Armor: 468 / 1389 -> 877 / 1575
EHP: 4552 / 10010 -> 6681 / 10644 -
Mirage Prime
Health: 526 -> 828
Armor: 372 / 1178 -> 771 / 1362.5
EHP: 1178 / 2591 -> 2956 / 4588 -
Nekros Prime
Health: 773 / 2753 -> 1008 / 1644
Armor: 104 / 588 -> 708 / 1237.5
EHP: 1041 / 8149 -> 3387 / 8425 -
Nezha Prime
Health: 1656 / 3636 -> 1616 / 3116
Armor: 455 / 1361 -> 871 / 1562.5
EHP: 4168 / 20131 -> 6308 / 19345 -
Octavia Prime
Health: 625 / 2605 -> 916 / 466
Armor: 674 / 1842 -> 1114 / 2050
EHP: 2029 / 18600 -> 4317 / 3650 -
Protea
Health: 1351 -> 1378
Armor: 317 / 1057 -> 708 / 1237.5
EHP: 2779 / 6111 -> 4630 / 7062 -
Saryn Prime
Health: 2068 / 4048 -> 1906 / 3406
Armor: 510 / 1482 -> 933 / 1687.5
EHP: 5584 / 24045 -> 7834 / 22564 -
Vauban Prime
Health: 625 / 2605 -> 916 / 2416
Armor: 399 / 1237 -> 802 / 1425
EHP: 1456 / 13346 -> 3365 / 13892 -
Valkyr Prime
Health: 625 / 2605 -> 916 / 2416
Armor: 2008 / 4777 -> 2652 / 5125
EHP: 4808 / 44085 -> 9013 / 43689 -
Wukong Prime
Health: 1961 / 9341 -> 1841 / 3341
Armor: 482 / 1420 -> 902 / 3275
EHP: 5112 / 53555 -> 7376 / 39814 -
Xaku
Health: 610 / 2590 -> 902 / 2402
Armor: 330 / 1086 -> 722 / 1265
EHP: 1281 / 11966 -> 3073 / 12530
Lastly, we have my well-modded Archwing and Necramech to record.
Amesha
QuoteEnhanced Durability, Argon Plating, Auxiliary Power
Pre-
- Health 1800
- Armor 380
- Energy 55 / 540
- EHP 4080
Post-
- Health 1800
- Armor 390
- Energy 55 / 540
- EHP 4140
Voidrig
QuoteNecramech Flow, Necramech Vitality, Necramech Redirection, Necramech Steel Fiber
Pre-
- Health 4800
- Armor 760
- Energy 150 / 450
- EHP 16960
Post-
- Health 4800
- Armor 770
- Energy 150 / 450
- EHP 17120
This should be a useful reference to understand how the upcoming changes affect frames that are actually in use.
Obviously, will update tomorrow after the patch drops.All stats updated!
So, main takeaways.
- Almost everything got a slight buff of a few dozen to a few hundred EHP.
- A select few frames got much larger armor buffs and that's reflected in their correspondingly sizeable additional EHP.
- Excalibur Umbra and Saryn actually lost some EHP due to the nerfs to the Umbral set.
- Kullervo also uses full Umbral but he still came out ahead due to his more massive base stat increase.
- Most doggo versions experienced the same up and down in stats.
- Kullervo's doggo has an EHP of 1.5 million while Reflex Denial is online. Probably even more thanks to K's Warcry. :D
On the whole, this was a decent incremental buff across the board. A few major outliers (and a headscratching nerf to the Umbral set), but seems pretty balanced.
Spoilerseriously wtf lmao
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12 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:
And they could always have SE or whatever be a secondary cost if they want to push old content and reduce stockpiles too.
I'd be okay with that. :D
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55 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:
I think it'll almost certainly require a new grind, and/or a plat bypass.
Hear me out:
1000 Steel Essence to unlock an augment slot capacity, 10000 to unlock the second. +5 base frame capacity added per unlocked slot. No plat bypass.
This keeps augment slots a longterm goal that can be passively worked towards by simply playing on the Steel Path - which is the level of play where you most want the additional functionality. This also provides a sink that got (knee)capped when DE limited Tenshin's kuva and relics per week.
Finally, it re-adds a feel of power progression that higher rank players have been missing out on for a while.
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9 hours ago, Packetdancer said:
...I may have a Steel Circuit and Void Fissure problem, but at least it isn't as bad as Qriist's.
Look I wouldn't have a cryotic problem if there was more stuff to spend it on! :P
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7 hours ago, Hexerin said:
Funny that you should stop by this thread, considering you were technically the catalyst behind it.
Aw that's pretty cool! :)
7 hours ago, Hexerin said:I've been reminded of how energy starved Gyre is at the start of missions.
Once I collapse Gyre's two red shards into a single Tauforged red shard, I'm gonna drop an amber shard in the free slot. +30%/+45% extra energy on spawn goes a looong way towards smoothing out gameplay when you have a frame where you gotta activate every ability right off the bat. I installed one into several frames (Citrine, Octavia, Saryn, Titania, Xaku) for that very reason and the experience with each of them was night and day.
I just finished off Nezha's red Tauforged requirements so Gyre is up next! :D
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28 minutes ago, Hexerin said:
this doesn't take into account your total energy capacity
You probably already know this, but several formulas have been realigned in the path that drops tomorrow.
On 2023-09-28 at 12:02 PM, [DE]Taylor said:Vitality (+440% Heath), Redirection (+440% Shields), Flow (+150%), and Steel Fiber (+110% Armor) come with large modifier values that don’t seem to match their outcome in-game. This is because these Mods apply their multiplier to the base stats of the Warframe -- i.e., the stats you have at Rank 0. In the Excalibur example, a Rank 30 Excalibur’s Health stat of 300 earns an additional 440 Health from max rank Vitality (+440% Heath) since it applies to his base rank Health stat of 100, resulting in 740 total health.
In Abyss of Dagath, we want to remove this obfuscation by having Health, Shield, Energy, and Armor Mods apply to the stats of Warframes at their current rank. Continuing our Excalibur example, instead of Vitality always applying to Excalibur’s base rank 100 Health, it would apply to his Health stat based on his rank -- namely, the stat you can actually see in your Arsenal. If your Excalibur were Rank 30, his Health stat would be 300, which means Vitality’s multiplier would be calculated off of 300.
If you combine the above adjusted formula with the tinkering DE did to starting energy earlier this year...
On 2023-02-15 at 11:00 AM, [DE]Connor said:Also fixed incorrect calculation of Mod upgrade to Energy drain, which resulted in incorrect calculation of Energy players receive on spawn.
...it suggests to me that the new starting energy will be indirectly affected by the stat overhaul.
That's just a speculation until the patch is released, of course.
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1 hour ago, Hexerin said:
Since you're not in there for the cryotic specifically, it doesn't feel like grinding for cryotic, so you're just accumulating it like you would any other resource.
Well, it's not just that. Excavations are my favorite type of relic mission if I have a competent team together because you can eventually get down to a relic crack every 90 seconds or so. No other mission type compares to that rate of prime drops, not even Capture.
Of course when your team is in disarray excavation's an absolute nightmare, but that's another story altogether.Anyways, the mere act of skewing towards cryotic while doing other things nets you more than enough.
Spoiler
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8 minutes ago, Hexerin said:
I'm nowhere close to that, but that's mostly because I gravitated away from her after I just couldn't get her to work in SP.
Oh man, Gyre's a monster on SP! Although a large chunk of her damage comes from her abilities, she's very weapon-dependent to properly push those abilities. You have to think about the problem more holistically, in my opinion. I've laid out my build (and reasoning) over here if you wanna check it out:
On 2023-06-05 at 4:03 AM, Qriist said:Gyre is a room clearing machine that I regularly take on hour long Steel Path survivals and disruptions. Played correctly, she has no notable survival issues.
My build:
Oh, one more thing: Gyre is legitimately one of the most effective frames in SP Circuit. Thanks to the nature of her abilities she is uniquely positioned to benefit from several decree categories that usually have no overlap: ability strength buffs, crit buffs, and status buffs. Because all of Gyre's abilities have native crit chance, all of these stack onto all of her abilities. Mod any fast firing weapon to push elec procs before you step out of the cave and you'll be golden. I probably have a dozen random guns with B configs capable of pushing electric. (Basically whatever guns Gyre rolled with on that particular Duviri run, lol.)
8 minutes ago, Hexerin said:That being said, I'm not sure how much I trust these usage percentages.
My top 6 frames as presented by the stat screen: Nezha, Gyre, Titania, Xaku, Excalibur Umbra, and Saryn.
As you can see, those numbers are all over the place. My best guess is the used% reflects the number of discrete missions you've launched with that particular warframe. This would track with my own feel of how I've used these frames: Excal was used a ton until I got Nezha, then Nez was used on a bigger ton of farming missions because he's such a good tank. Heck, I still regularly run him. I've used Titania mostly for relic cracks but I also like choosing her in Circuit. I use Gyre+Xaku for a wide variety of missions, upto and including lengthy SP survivals. Saryn is pretty much only used in ESO buuut I'm almost certain each portal is counted as its own stage so every 20 minute run for a vandal blueprint would add 8 the tally.
8 minutes ago, Hexerin said:Only reason Volt Prime is so high, is because he's the single strongest tile clear frame in the game, so I used him to farm my focus cap every day in SO.
You know, I have not been able to get a feel for Volt, which is kinda funny considering how much I just gushed about his lady clone. XD
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1 hour ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:
I hate it when I bring a nuked frame only for one of the team mates to be another nuke frame. Worse is when we can't synergize with each other.
I usually just let the other Saryn's spore roll. It's way more affinity into my weapon than if mine were rolling.
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14 minutes ago, Hexerin said:
if you've ever played Gyre
just a bit :D
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4 minutes ago, Packetdancer said:
Pure prose communication is weirdly imprecise at times (especially when tempers are starting to run hot), since minus cues like tone-of-voice and facial expression, it's easy to assume someone means the worst possible interpretation of whatever they said.
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28 minutes ago, SDGDen said:
if there was a mode with just the increased spawn rate and increased level that'd be a great option for testing.
Your best bet would just be solo running the first and/or second archon missions (whichever is convenient for whatever you're testing). Those are the highest level non-SP missions that we currently have access to. It's not "consistent" week to week, but they do start with level 130+ enemies.
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17 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:
These were installed in nodes in the upgrade tree that we used to have, the one that used our level points as an actual point system. like this:
Thank you! That was an excellent explanation. :)
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35 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:
Reave is unusual though, being "health drain", and might not be representative of normal damage abilities.
Reave does a consistent percentage of the affected enemy's max health. My guess is that's considered ability damage regardless of other non-amplification factors, kinda the same way as the kills from Kullervo's damage web do not count as melee kills despite deleting the triggering enemy with melee.
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35 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:
DE had variable stat mods for Warframes in the game, declared that they didn't want them in the game, and specifically took them out.
I don't really have an opinion on this topic but I'm actually quite curious to see some of these old mods. Would you be able to link me?
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2 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:
Is it like that was, in that does "Reduce Teammate Visual Effects" does nothing?
i'm not sure. I didn't even know that was an option, lol.
Since that toggle will presumably do nothing for my own Thermal Sunder effects I'll have to get a buddy to help me test when one is around. I'll report back later tonight.
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15 hours ago, SDGDen said:
i found that soloing circulus results in not getting enough enemy spawns, making the mission less "having a hard time staying alive" and more "having a hard time finding enemies to drop your life support"
33 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:That's interesting. I haven't used it for that, but I know other people have liked Circulus for testing.
I've said a few times around the forums that my goto is Lua/Circulus. I do not have spawn issues, and it's generally very easy to tell if I have a properly performant weapon.
That said, this makes all the difference in our experiences:
15 hours ago, SDGDen said:i chose not to use steel path
Steel Path always has full spawns in endless missions.
Not knocking ya, but do be aware that non-SP survivals in general run into this issue; enemy spawns are decreased for every player less than a full squad but the drop rate of capsules are not increased to compensate.
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16 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:
I often think it would be better to delete dedicated faction mods than consolidate them. But if that were to happen I'd like them to be replaced by a universal DoT bonus mod, with (very roughly) an equivalent effect on damage procs.
Heyyy is that a conversation callback? :D
For the benefit of everyone else:
On 2023-07-10 at 2:44 AM, Qriist said:Been chewing on this for a while.
It appears to me most people like the faction mods primarily for buffing the armor-bypassing Bleed effect. The upfront damage is almost never discussed.
What about rolling all of the various faction mods up into a single faction-agnostic status effect booster? This mod concept already exists, albeit restricted to polearms:
While this mod does buff the frontend damage, the backend goes nuts thanks to the second ability line. It's very good, almost more than you'd expect.
Using Boreal's Contempt as a basis, and keeping in mind that my proposed changes weakens upfront damage, I think +60% status damage for the normal version and +110% for the primed version would be a good starting place for this effect.
Aside from unifying the faction mods in a way that I think is strong but not OP, this idea has the additional advantage of inadvertently addressing the lack of mods for newer factions (ie, Sentinent and Narmer). DE would then be free to add as many factions as they desire without severly crippling player effectiveness.
As an aside, the faction mods already have excellent (punchy!) names we should keep, so the 16 variations of "Bane/Cleanse/Expel/Smite of Corpus/Grineer/Infested/Corrupted" can be readily renamed into a simple "Bane/Cleanse/Expel/Smite".
On 2023-07-10 at 3:42 AM, Tiltskillet said:If you just wanted to preserve their current DoT-only power level, that's ( 1.3 * 1.3 ) = 69% regular, and ( 1.55 * 1.55 ) = ~140% primed. It sounds like you think they should be stronger for that purpose than now. If so, you're going too low.
I don't know how they should be balanced. The argument could be made that the loss in upfront damage is made up for by being faction-agnostic, especially now that we're dealing with Sentients, Thrax, Dax, etc mixed in to other enemies a fair amount of the time, and it looks like it'll keep going that direction.
On 2023-07-10 at 11:47 AM, Qriist said:So, anyways, PPP + my initial 110% "Primed Smite DOT" calculates out to have higher Bleed ticks than PPP + unPrimed Smite Grineer, but lower Bleed ticks than PPP+PSG.
That tick value falls slightly above halfway between the two versions. Is that high enough to justify being faction-agnostic? I'd probably argue yes, but as I said before I'm totally open to tweaks.
Interesting side note, if faction mods go away then the only source of +faction damage in the equation would be Roar.
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I have much less of an issue with Thermal Sunder's audio spam than I do with the visual spam.
It is perhaps the single most obnoxious skill in the game because when someone spams it I cannot see the battlefield for the duration of the mission.
Some illustratative examples I personally screenshotted:
Spoiler
The above photos were all ESO but I've increasingly come across Thermal Sunder in multiple Circuit and relic missions.
I've gotten to the point where I'll simply abort mission rather than entire spend minutes at a time guessing about level layout or enemy location.
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10 hours ago, Xaero said:
None should. It's just that the game doesn't apply universal rules to system implenetations for some reason. Take damage buffs for example. Some abilities like Eclipse or Roar apply multiplicative damage buffs, while Vex Armor applies additively.
It's even wilder than that.
Eclipse does the standard +X% damage you'd expect, but Roar is faction damage so that's computed differently.
Eclipse is much better for upfront damage if you're in moderate-to-full light but Roar is almost always better for status procs due to faction bonuses getting squared in that formula.
On 2023-07-10 at 11:47 AM, Qriist said:I did a bunch of reading and realized my intuitive sense of how the faction mods affected DOT was wrong. Mainly, I thought the DOT was based primarily on the total incoming damage (pre-any reduction), but it's instead based on a more narrow subset of variables.
This combined with the squaring you pointed out makes Banes a much larger portion of DOT ticks than I previously understood them to be. Focusing on Slash:
I looked at the Bleed formula and found an example that helped a lot when figuring out how to apply the variables.
AFAIK, Roar is the only source of non-mod faction damage, and this is not communicated anywhere in the game. For that matter, it's never explained in the game why +faction makes status procs hit so hard.
BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE INCONSISTENCIES
One of our very few ways of gaining additional status damage is the polearm mod Boreal's Contempt.
Turns out, it's bugged to give only half its bonus, and also happens to work with absolutely no melee-based statstick abilities except one random ranged ability (Atlas' thrown boulders).
I even verified the bugged damage myself:
On 2023-07-10 at 2:44 AM, Qriist said:I tested Orthos Prime (umodded base damage = 234) modded with Melee Prowess plus one of the following scenarios.
("unverified" means I don't own the mod at that rank but it should math out based on testing the things I do have.)
Scenario 1: (Melee Prowess alone) verified
- calculated base: 234
- displayed base: 234
- calculated Bleed: 81.9
- displayed Bleed: 829
Scenario 6: R5 Boreal's Contempt (+90% Melee Damage, +30% Damage from Status Effects, actual current state) verified
- calculated base: 444.6
- displayed base: 444.6
- calculated Bleed: 202.293
- displayed Bleed: 203
Scenario 7: R5 Boreal's Contempt (+90% Melee Damage, +60% Damage from Status Effects, requires bug fix) unverified
- calculated base: 444.6
- displayed base: 444.6
- calculated Bleed: 248.976
1 hour ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:I've wondered about this! I'd really like to be able to dig through their source code. There are so many similar systems with such different behaviors that it's likely to be a patchwork quilt of independent scripts all sewn on top of the core game engine. I think it's a miracle it works at all.
There's a tale about the development of Final Fantasy VII that basically says the SquareSoft devs weren't quite sure why the game engine was able to boot, just that it did. Therefore, the story goes, the game shipped with a bunch of bugs because they were too afraid of making any change that might topple their digital house of cards right before launch.
I don't know if that story is true or not, but Warframe definitely gives me that same vibe sometimes.
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2 minutes ago, Hexerin said:
I'm about 99.4% positive that overshields will not be counted in the new gate calculations. It would be too easily abused by multiple frames, and there's no way DE isn't aware of that.
Never underestimate someone's ability to let you down.
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Recording my pre- and post-rework stat changes
in General Discussion
Posted
Yes, these are my builds.