DrBorris
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Posts posted by DrBorris
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34 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:
More to the point, Heart of Deimos made it moot anyway with a complete retcon of both Once Awake and the Infested Derelict setting
I think this is an example of how the star chart is terrible for story progression. Deimos showing up is a recent thing, the description for the quest is "Deimos emerges from Martian orbit..." Furthermore, the distress call that is sent says "Loyal servants of the great and glorious Orokin Empire..." I think it is safe to say Deimos has been missing for a little bit if they are assuming the Orokin empire is still kicking. Once Awake takes place before Deimos shows up and the Derelicts have been around for a hot minute.
It isn't as bad the the mess that is SAlad V, but it is another thing on the list. I'd love to see some rework to the star chart to fix this stuff up, I won't hold my breath though.
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You need to do 4 normal Orowyrm fights to get the Pathos Clams you need for Incarnon adapters per week. At about 20 min for a lone story run, that is an hour of your time a week.
In order to actually get those adapters though, that is 3-5 hours of SP Circuit.
An extra hour on top of the SP circuit farm can certainly feel rough, but that time should be taken into context. I wish the time it takes to grind out circuit was a bit more discussed, as DE continues to add weekly content the "required" time to keep up with the game is inflating. You could get Kahl and Archon done in about an hour, that felt like a sweet spot weekly content, now we are at a minimum of 5 hours a week of just weekly "keep up" content. This isn't counting any other Warframe things you want to do.
Five hours (more like six) isn't that bad, but if DE keeps up this trend of weekly content then I'm worried that it will become too tedious to keep up with the game. Warframe thrives as something that you don't have to dedicate your life to, it has generally respected your want to not play it all the time, while DE hasn't crossed the bar yet I can feel it coming.
4 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:If you're not lying I'm actually impressed. 20 minutes average despite the RNG sounds a bit incredible though.
It is definitely possible, but it does require a bit of luck on the Undercroft sections. Also, major hint for the SP Duviri sections, USE YOUR WARFRAME. You can generally build up Transference in one 'wave' of the combat missions, then you can delete one to two waves with even the worst weapons. I don't think I have seen anyone use their Warframe in Duviri, which is wild given how many people claim to hate not playing Warframe in Warframe.
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5 hours ago, Felsagger said:
I've seen the general attitude of many communities. In every forum you could find the old lurkers, the wankers, fanboys, rant white knight boys, fanatics, lots of alternate accounts and fangasmic 'yes man' boys. I know, with such individuals, it's no use.
With this type of public IS IMPOSSIBLE to have a conversation like adjusted people have discussing certain subjects. By pointing no user in particular, I can safely say that the community has a portion of toxicity, hate and wickedness. This community is no different than the community of Call of Duty, Destiny or any other online community. In here, since there are forum rules, people find corners and ways to circumvent the rules. It's classical hypocrisy to the extreme.
Joylesstuna, some people can't accept that Warframe IS NOT ALL THAT GREAT. They can't accept that they spent a lot of time in it without waking up from such loop. Right now that reality is changing because Sony is dropping the games. The focus of interest is shifting again towards developers that invest time polishing their product. Insomniac returned with Spider Man 2. There are many games on Sony International Entertainment that will put the bar higher while Warframe aims to IOS phones.
This doesn't make Warframe a failure but makes people wake the hell up knowing where things actually are. There are good posters here too. We should limit ourselves to interact with people who is not biased, that are capable of accepting critique and understand where things are.
>Calls everyone who disagrees with them irrational
>Says the discussion is toxic/hypocritical because people disagree
>Makes assumptions about the positions of others
>Projects bad-faith rationality onto the statements of others
>Encourages others to stop interacting with people who disagree with them, instead only communicate in an echo chamber
I'm not sure who you're trying to win over with this, but I guess you aren't. Completely disregarding the actual topic at hand, the mentality that you're showing here is incredibly toxic and I hope you eventually realize how disrespectful you've been to anyone who doesn't agree with you. I don't take any issue with you thinking Horizon to be a superior game to Warframe, I can very much understand thinking the graphics it has to offer look better, I just wish you would try to understand the rationality behind someone who disagrees with you rather than assuming they are being irrational.
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Seeing as disposition is listed as a stat like any other on a weapon, I wouldn't be surprised if they make installing an Incarnon adapter nuke the disposition. The functionality is there to have a mod give different stats depending on what it is equipped on, extending that to Incarnons doesn't seem unreasonable.
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33 minutes ago, Felsagger said:
average
WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN
Sorry to be so loud, but you keep saying this word, you keep using it in a derogatory way, but all you've done to describe "average" is as a description of a game that isn't aiming for realistic graphics. To say you're just expressing your opinion about graphics is cow poo, you've been dev bashing and criticizing players for 'settling' for "average." You've made out Horizon to be an objectively superior game because it has higher fidelity graphics, whenever someone brings up anything about Warframe's future anyplace on these Forums you throw around videos/images as if Warframe is a failure because it isn't doing what this other game did.
I care a lot about graphics, the way a game looks plays a major part in how I enjoy games. But I have a bit more nuance to my taste than "it looks real, therefore good."
Warframe has great graphics, it doesn't have the highest fidelity graphics but that isn't the only way a game can look great. There have been plenty of games with high fidelity (for a recent example, Forspoken) that most have agreed look downright ugly. There have been games with far fewer polygons that look better than Warframe. Trying to make an objective assessment of something that is intrinsically subjective is inane, either use "graphics" as a descriptor with no inherent value or understand that it isn't something you can prove to be better/worse, stop doing both.
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Limited ammo is there to make you switch weapons. It is an additional vector that DE can use to balance the power of an item, it allows for some things to be obscenely powerful but limited in use. You don't "scavenge" for ammo if you run out on that powerful weapon, you swap to one of your two other weapons.
I do not think that this vector of balance has been properly balanced in the slightest, but I find a combat sandbox that encourages you to use all of your weapons to be far more interesting than being able to use the most powerful thing in the game for an entire mission without rest. Pumping maximum dopamine for a full mission makes power feel less powerful.
The "X weapon is dead" responses to the ammo nerfs still boggle my mind. You would be led to believe that Bramma has only 5 ammo for a full mission. Like... just switch weapons for 5 seconds, you'll likely get most if not all your ammo back. Switching weapons being a taboo (after the swap speed buff) is one of the weirder parts of the community.
19 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:Ammo only makes the game slower and that's where I'm at. Doom Eternal did fine even without magazines, but I wouldn't take it that far.
Doom Eternal's entire weapon sandbox is based on ammo scarcity and switching weapons. Limited ammo is what kept the pace so fast as it had you constantly revaluating your approach to combat by forcing you to swap weapons. Doom Eternal is the poster boy for how limiting ammo can be a powerful tool in shaping combat.
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What I find frustrating about this whole back and forth is that one side seems predicated on the (baseless) assertion that graphical fidelity is not only the most important factor in how good a game looks, but that the quality of the entire game is a function of how real it looks. The foundation to the argument is flawed.
I don't want Warframe to be higher fidelity or more realistic. I much prefer the stylized art style we have, and while there is certainly some dated textures in the game that is entirely tied to old content that hasn't been updated. I prefer the visual clarity, the animated pizazz, the unrealistic fantasy. Destiny is another game that I think nails being a beautiful game without resorting to more polygons. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are both gorgeous games that I become fully immersed in despite being cell shaded. These things not requiring as much hardware isn't even part of the equation for me.
To be frank, I pity not being able to appreciate art that isn't realistic. I'm not settling for "average" because I find beauty in things that aren't a photograph and Warframe is no less good a game because it doesn't look like every other modern AAA game. Dismissing art direction in favor of making a mirror to reality is the more "average" approach if anything.
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4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:
DE will never port to UE5, ever.
Why? Because they are average.
While I did not lol, I did at least smile, thank you.
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Just now, Corvid said:
Aside from all the ways in which the two are not at all alike?
I know nuance is apparently dead, but two games having horses doesn't make them the same.
I've given up. If someone sees Duviri combat and thinks "ah, yes, it is souls combat" then there is no hope. Perception can only go as far as the mind will let it, and some people just can't let some things go. Some of these people actually think that it is a technical feasibility to "port" Warframe to UE5.
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As someone who has been a Stat Stick Hater for years, I should probably throw in my take.
Stat sticks are dumb and stupid and dumb. Let me mod the ability that affects what the ability does. And while DE's at it, "combo" for an ability is also kinda dumb. Having to spam an ability in order for it to do the only thing it is useful for is, and I really mean it this time, dumb. When you have something like Nidus where his whole shtick is getting stronk over a mission, it makes sense, his kit was designed around building up power. When I punch with Atlas or whip with Khora, it should do the thing from the get go.
It would also be nice if these pseudo-exalted weapons were like Garuda's Talons where you could equip them as a traditional melee weapon, but that isn't necessary at all.
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3 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:
yes yes I know, But umm I don't care?
Not sure why you felt the need to respond like that. Especially odd given you cut out the parts where I expressed your same opinion of not liking how it affected fashion and that the current effect looks very dated.
I'd like to see Xata's Whisper be less ugly. Only having some infested stuff on your arms with some void wispyness sounds like a a great compromise between the 'mechanics' of the ability and retaining your fashion.
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I have mixed feelings about Xata's Whisper. On one hand, rip my fashion. On the other hand, the 'lore' implication is dope. Xata's Whisper doesn't put Infested sinew all over your Warframe, it is exposing the "Truth" (the translation of Xata) of your Warframe. Ripping away the skin of your metal shell to let the Void juice more freely flow is super cool... but rip my fashion.
At the very least the vfx could use another pass, the texture work reminds me of 2016 Warframe and it doesn't sell the visual of showing the goop beneath the metal. But even then it will still be "ugly" infested all over your shiny Warframe.
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On 2/25/2023 at 9:03 PM, lukinu_u said:
In short, Eidolons just had a good game design that made the bug a fun alternative instead of a necessity to skip the boring fight.
I know this isn't the main point of this topic, but I would much rather have no "good game design" than have that "good" be tied to praying to the RNG gods while you pull on a slot machine lever. Rivens as an archetypal concept I am 100% down for, I love the potential Rivens have for the game, but as they stand their effect on the game is far more toxic than beneficial and I will encourage any change that removes unique gameplay from them. #FudgeRivens
More on topic, Tiltskillet's remark about players optimizing the fun out of a game make this discussion a lot more complicated than people having fun goofy toys in good faith. On some level I like broken things, Warframe is as much a game of strategy where you pick the right tool for a job as it is an action game, cheese its part of its identity and it shouldn't be completely stricken from it. However, there do need to be limits. These limits are especially important when the tools are not broadly available. Again, Rivens bad.
I've said a lot of words on Damage Attenuation, but I won't go there (yet). While I do see value in "bullet sponge" bosses I think there is a good reason that people find Archon's annoying (when they fight them "properly").
It isn't fun to shoot something the size of a Warframe for 10 minutes.
This is a power fantasy horde shooter, we massacre thousands of humanoid enemies in a single mission, it just feels wrong to lay so much into something so small no matter what lore BS you have to justify it. Eidolons, Orbs, or Orphix makes sense to take a couple extra shots. The entire idea of Archons being damage sponges is inherently flawed because they aren't a fun enemy to shoot at.
I know it won't happen because DE has set their mind to wanting Archons to be bullet sponges, but I do think they should really just revert them to mechanic fights with invulnerability gates. Boreal's moveset is already there, just give it like 5 gates and have hitting one trigger one of its moves. I could see Amar doing something interesting with interrupting/blocking his attacks to make him vulnerable. Nira's a bit harder, but I think there are some "quick fix" things that could be done to her kit that would allow her to fit with a health-gate style fight.
There is a time and place for Damage Attenuation, I think Archons fundamentally aren't it. It will never be fun to shoot them for an extended period of time.
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I've been tinkering with reworking the Residual/Theorem Arcanes for awhile myself. They have a ton of potential, but they miss the mark in a truly spectacular degree.
The TL;DR for my thoughts before I read this post are as follows...
- Having to stack the buffs doesn't fit the pace of Warframe, they should be one-and-done. If Residuals need a range nerf to compensate I think it would still be for the best.
- Make sure every arcane that benefits from a Residual field has a direct tie to the element of the Residual.
- Add a new set of weapon arcanes that interact with Residuals. Have the bonus damage be elemental damage to tie into the Residual theme.
- Make the existing residuals good :)
Feedback to the OP
- I like embracing status effects with the Residuals, but I don't think their damage should be enhanced. 200 damage wouldn't do anything at higher levels but it would make them light AoE clear at lower levels, even though low levels 'don't matter' I don't think they should be doing that even there.
- I don't like stacking of the Theorems at all. I don't like stacking in general, but clearly DE disagrees, so honestly just fixing stacking to not be dumb is probably the more reasonable ask.
- Theorem Contagion is an awesome concept that has a terrible implementation. Debuffing enemies to an element has a ton of potential for weird build-craft but application method is horrid. I don't think elemental combos should work as the whole thing with Residuals is their single-element nature. If you are using these arcanes you are centering your whole build around them, I think it is more interesting to have you build your weapons around them as well. The 30m AoE you propose isn't bad, but it is on the boring side imo. I like the orby thing thematically, but an effect like a damage debuff does need some form of mass application as you suggest. Maybe the orb could bounce?
- As for Demulcent, there is a bit of precedent for added elemental damage to abilities with Nourish on Grendel. I don't know if this mechanic could be easily transferred to other frames, but adding elemental damage to abilities could be really interesting (and possibly broken).
- Infection is a scary Arcane. DE doesn't like turrets, they don't like AFK strategies, an Arcane that only gets value from "turrets" killing things might not be the best design space. While you do need to kill things with your weapons every so often to keep this active, it still feels like it is riding a line.
13 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:The Demios Arcane are fine. How they trigger is fine. What they offer is also fine. How they function mechanically to the warframe gameplay is where the issue lies. If only the field would be an aura center on the player. Then allow team mates to benefit from it.
Huh?
The Residuals are whatever. They aren't supposed to be great on their own, they are intended to just be a set up for Theorems so they get a pass.
But the Theorems though... none of them I would consider to be in a good place. One of them gives a boost to companion damage, and while I know there are some gimmicks for this I don't think any mechanic that leads to AFK strategies is a good idea. One of them has a damage debuff that affects one enemy every two seconds. And the third "good" one gives a insignificant damage boost and has to compete with Warframe arcanes.
I kind of want DE to do a "Deimos Arcana 2.0" as a full rework as that content, both the missions and rewards, were skipped over by most of the community. Most players I've run into don't even know about the Arcana bounties. Arcana bounties are some of the best "open world" content in the game in my opinion, unfortunately the way you start/matchmake into them left them dead on arrival. DE could probably market a Deimos Arcana refresh as brand new content and the majority of players wouldn't notice.
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2 hours ago, Frendh said:
Survivability is easy with the current shield gating. There is no reason to make frames even tankier.
If shield gating is removed, then some of this can be considered.
This makes no sense.
If shield gating is already good survivability, what would be wrong with more options? I assume you don't believe these options will be superior to shield gating, so these ideas exist as alternative for those people who don't want to deal with the high maintenance gameplay of shield gate builds. These things won't make someone using shield gating properly tankier because that person is already effectively invincible.
If shield gating was removed then it would make more sense to say these mods are too powerful and no "mandatory" for you to play.
Also all of these replies nit-picking the balance of the mods are wild. Not to speak for the OP, but I don't think that's the point. What we are looking at here is a (very extensive) brain-storming session. All that matters here are the broad strokes, personally I love to see the good, bad, and ugly of someone's brain-storm because sometimes one person's bad idea can inspire another person's good idea.
The more I've thought about it, the more I like this idea at its core. While it sounds nice to "simply" fix enemy damage scaling, I think this actually might be the better choice for the game as it adds some good flavor to the defensive modding of Warframes.
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It may not be the elegant solution, but adding more ways for us to "power-creep" our defenses through customization to counter the ever increasing enemy damage has a fair bit of potential. The problem I see this raising is it becoming too restrictive to our Warframe builds, I'd hate to see Warframe builds see the same homogenization that weapons builds have seen.
I kinda like this idea. Make lemonade out of lemons, take the broken enemy scaling and use it as an opportunity for new customization/gameplay diversity.
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4 hours ago, hippokrene said:
I suspect that a seaonal hardcore star chart clear would exclude most players.
Here's the thing though, everything shouldn't be for everyone. Different people like different things, if you try to please everyone you will never fully satisfy anyone.
I actually like the idea of adding seasons to The Steel Path, maybe integrate it with Nightwave.
A lot of people are complaining that the hard mode doesn't have any replayability, but does it really need it? Maybe The Steel Path can excel as a one-and-done piece of content, something you experience every few months but not every day.
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So... give Banshee Radial Blind. I'd rather not add another ability I have to mash for every group of enemies, Sonar is plenty.
Why not keep it simple, just allow for Silence to be recast.
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The first step in understanding DE's intentions is understanding that their intentions do not always transfer to implementation intact.
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23 hours ago, Skaleek said:
Indeed. I would like to be able to change out my grip, at the very least, since this whole debacle is on DE's inability to crunch some very basic numbers. I really dont want to rebuild an almost identical kitgun for the investment of a catalyst, weapon exilus adapter, and 6~8 forma.
Well written post, good read, thanks for the number crunching as well. +1
What really boggles my mind is that, despite me being rather critical in this post, it is very clear to me that there is a method to Kitgun balance. The balance guy must use formulas to determine final values and for the most part a lot of values do hit a similar target. This makes the Tombfinger all the more confusing because it is just... dumb. Kitguns were balanced with a scalpel, the 28.0.5 Tombfinger changes was basically chucking a boulder and watching where it landed.
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I'd simplify it another step and just have three total tiers.
- Unrefined: Best chance at common
- 50 Traces: Best chance at uncommon
- 100 Traces: Best chance at rare
Keep it simple, having the multiple tiers of refinement is only useful if each tier has a purpose. Bloat just makes things confusing.
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2 minutes ago, Dragazer said:
Prime has 8 pellets and base has 5
True, but when you count in Sancti's better reload speed Sancti wins out in status per second.
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Going to cut right to the chase, the Kitgun math sucks (most of the time). How stats scale with different loaders/grips makes the customization nothing more than superficial as DE has failed to make it an even playing field. In general this post is not about the overall balance of Kitguns, rather it is about the relative balance of Kitgun variants.
Being a person with too much free time I put together a calculator in Excel that would present me with a quick comparison of all Kitgun variants. Why am I bringing this up? Well, all my number feedback is a result of me being able to at-a-glance analyze Kitgun builds. In the spoiler below I am going to try to first show you the data that led me to my conclusions. Feel free to skip the spoiler section, just know that I'm not speaking out of my rear and my feedback is based on hard numbers.
SpoilerThis first picture is a key to the components.
- The blue section in the upper left displays the chamber and grip along with the type of weapon.
- The light yellow section below are base unmodded stats before Loader augments, for the most part this section is irrelevant.
- Below in the darker yellow section are the modded base damage and fire rate. Keep in mind that this is the base damage without crits, so again this section is a bit irrelevant.
- The large grey section displays the mod stats. The builds I will be using are not perfect meta, rather they are the general cookie-cutter builds. While there could be min/maxing done on a weapon-to-weapon basis the general cookie cutter build gives a good baseline for comparing Kitguns against each other. The values highlighted in grey are the mods applied to the rest of the calculator.
- The largest green section in the middle is where all the stats for each loader are presented.
- The light green section above it is the key for the names of the Loaders.
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The small purple box is the key for what stats are listed for each Loader.
- Burst DPS: This is the damage per second not counting reloading. It is found by simply multiplying the average damage of a shot by the fire rate.
- Sustained DPS: This then counts in reload time. It is reduced by a ratio of your weapon’s uptime and downtime, that being composed of fire rate, magazine size, and reload speed.
- CC: Critical Chance
- Reload: Reload time
- Status C : Status Chance
- Status PS: Status per second: The amount of status effects that you will inflict every second (burst). This is honestly more important than raw status chance as most status effects scale with the amount of times they have been inflicted now.
- The light orange box on the top right is for finding more info about one of the Loaders.
- The dark orange column is a comparison of all the available grips for the Loader selected in the light orange section above.
Now with that out of the way, I am going to post a picture for each of the chambers. One for the primary and one for the secondary variant. For consistency I will use the lowest fire rate Grips for all these pictures, although you can see the stats for the other Grips on the right side. I will also use Splat as the selected Loader for said grips as it is a meta choice (keep in mind the Loader does not have an impact on the relations between Grips).
Secondary Kitguns
Primary Kitguns Post Hotfix 28.0.5
Primary Kitguns Pre-Hotfix 28.0.5
Now for the feedback…
Fire Rate and Burst vs Sustained DPS (Ignore Gaze for a bit)
On all Kitguns (before Hotfix 28.0.5, will get there in a second), the higher the fire rate of the Grip the lower the sustained and burst DPS. Of all the trends with Kitguns, this one confuses me the most. A lower sustained DPS makes sense and would be expected, if you empty your magazine faster you will have a lower uptime while shooting. Aside from feel, the upside of higher fire rate is higher status per second.
While many of the higher fire rate Kitguns are still decent, they are all needlessly gimped. The suggestion here is simple, the burst DPS of all Grips should be somewhat equivalent. If anything, the higher fire rate grips should have slightly higher burst DPS. This will make picking a higher fire rate Grip a viable choice for those that prefer it.
Note: In the most recent update this was addressed a bit as Shrewd and Brash got some buffs. For Catchmoon and Rattleguts the tier list of burst DPS is now Tremor>Brash>Steadyslam>Shrewd. Shrewd got the short end of the stick here and while the numbers are closer, they should be better. This issue persists with secondary kitguns and should not be ignored just because they are old content.
Loader Mag vs Reload Balance
Let’s have a bit of positivity. The balance of the mag and reload speed of the Loaders is perfect. The sustained DPS, the stat that matters for the mag/reload stats, is basically even across the board. If two Loaders are in the same crit/status tier, then their sustained DPS is near identical. You have true choice to pick what you want for the feel of the weapon.
Loader Crit vs Status Balance
Status weapons still struggle in general, but there was a key choice DE made with Loaders that only exacerbates the issue. The critical damage multiplier also scales with loader. Critical damage and critical chance stats scale multiplicatively with each other, having them both scale means that the higher crit Loaders are getting a far greater benefit.
The solution seems obvious when you look at the base status chance for the highest status variants. These values range from only 33% to 39%, that just isn’t high enough for the status of a weapon to be able to carry it. Now that we can reach over 100% status these weapons would benefit greatly from having a higher status chance. Keep the current minimum status chance the same (Killstream and Splat), increase everything else. The highest status chance Loaders should be coming in at 60%-80% base status chance.
The Missing Loaders
The highest crit/status Loaders are missing the highest reload/magazine Loaders. Don’t take “highest” to mean “best”. As discussed earlier, the mag/reload balance of Loaders is perfect. The template is already there to make the four additional Loaders that add to the diversity of builds. A max mag size loader isn’t “better” than a middle of the road Loader, it is a difference in playstyle. Restricting these options doesn’t add any balance, it only restricts build-craft.
Primary vs Secondary Balance
Some have argued that the secondary kitguns were suffocating the meta. If that was DE’s concern, they swung the pendulum too far. For someone to go through the effort of interacting with modular weapons they NEED to compete with the best in class.
Some rough comparisons
- Primary Catchmoon is 50%-60% worse than Secondary Catchmoon.
- Primary Gaze is 45%-50% worse than Secondary Gaze.
- Primary Rattleguts is 40%-50% worse than Secondary Rattleguts.
- Tombfinger is too different to directly compare.
Primary Kitguns being roughly half the power of secondary Kitguns hurts… a lot. Primary weapons have always had trouble against secondaries, but this discrepancy is even worse than normal. Primary Kitguns need all around buffs to more than just QoL status like magazine size (although Catchmoon also needs this, badly).
Secondary Tombfinger: The Grip problem but x10
Of all the inconsistencies with Kitguns, this one takes the cake. What went through DE’s head when they decided to make the high fire rate Tombfinger Grips absolute trash? Sure, the high fire rate grips have problems on all Chambers, but in the case of Tombfinger the burst DPS of Gibber is less than half that of Haymaker. This isn’t how you give player choice, if you make a Tombfinger that isn’t Haymaker you are shooting both your feet off.
Primary Tombfinger: Charge Time vs Fire Rate: Pre Hotfix 28.0.5
For some reason DE decided that it made the most sense for the charge rate of Tombfinger to be consistent across all Grips, only having the fire rate change. To clarify, charge time is how long it takes to charge a shot while fire rate is how long you must wait after you fire to charge again. The problem here is not perfectly represented in the calculator as it is the human interaction of this mechanic that makes it an issue. The issue being, due to it being semi-auto you will not ever notice the difference between grips if you are charging your shots. In the time it takes for you to lift your finger from the trigger and hit the trigger again all the Grips will be ready to fire.
There are a few ways DE could go about this. The most obvious one is to have the charge rate scale with Grips rather than fire rate.
Another option would be to make the quick fire more viable. As it stands, quick firing (with a macro) is about a 50% reduction to your DPS. Make quick fire a viable alternative by having it keep the same damage as a charged fire, albeit with a lower aera of effect. If this were done it would also be nice to increase the variance of fire rate between the Grips (they only range from 2.13 to 3.77 now).
Primary Tombfinger 2: Electric Boogaloo: Post Hotfix 28.0.5
I’ve seen a lot of balance changes in my day, this one takes the cake in my opinion as the one done with the least forethought. When using the charged fire, Tombfinger primary is now basically the inverse of Tombfinger secondary, the low fire rate grips are now trash compared to the high fire rate grips. I don’t know what DE expected when they slapped on massive reductions to effective fire rate without adjusting damage. At this point Tombfinger needs a balance overhaul, this chamber is plain broken in its primary form.
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:
So you’re saying de has not fixed or
learned from mistakes since then?
Yes, DE is an imperfect company and while they have learned and evolved in many ways, many of their habits are the same.
And just because something DE does isn't perfect it does not mean that they haven't made an improvement. The amount of complaints about grind and RNG where the OP says "this is the worst" or "DE is killing the game" or my personal most hated "this all started when DE was bought by China" when modern grinds are miles better than old grinds is tiring. Quick history, originally Frost Prime parts had a sub 1% drop chance and the Gradivus Dilemma event was "do this alert 100 times". DE has moved forward but that doesn't mean they have perfected everything. As I said in my post, Warframe is the best it ever has been.
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Polarity Banking, a Forma system to encourage modding.
in General
Posted
I just struggle to look at how DE's monetized the game and see them intentionally designing a system for the sole purpose of monetization. Prime Access is long known to be the money maker for DE, but they significantly reduced the friction to grind out a Prime with Specters of the Rail. And since then Relics have become easier and easier to obtain (outside a minor bump when they capped SE turn in).
So to say that DE isn't willing to rework forma because they are worried about losing money to the subset of a subset players who min-max their items in a way that locks them into builds or builds multiple of an item is... mmm... it is certainly cynical, but I don't know how realistic it is.
I'm pretty sure I'm in that idiotic 1% of min/maxers of the game. I have a stupid amount of things forma'd, countless over-investment builds, tl;dr Circuit is a joke to me. That said, when I'm building out a frame and I reach the point where an additional polarity will break another one of my builds... I stop. I just don't do it, Banshee my beloved has been on a slightly unoptimized build for years now because I can't have all of the builds work on the same Banshee. I may be in that tiny percent of min/maxers, but I'm not in the subset of a subset that builds multiple of a thing. For me this change would ruin my (already dry) Forma reserves.
None of us can say where the distribution of "would use less forma" or "would use more forma" is, but a system like this caters more towards a casual audience by reducing the barrier to entry. That would lead me to think that despite losing some "reinvestment" returns, the net would be positive for 3-pack forma bundle purchases (which we are assuming makes up a perceptible amount of plat purchases).
I think your cynicism is overshadowing your perception of 'real'. Sure, you can assume DE is a mustache twirling money addict, but if they are then they suck at it. Nearly every monetized thing in this game seems like an afterthought of development, not an initial intention, for better and for sometimes worse.