Lichcontract
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Posts posted by Lichcontract
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Just now, taiiat said:
yeah, so you shouldn't use your $1 bills in your wallet because it's more efficient to use your $20 bills.
k.
It is indeed more efficient to use the £20 note because you're trying to get to £20 to pay for your object of choice (remember the aim of the game is maxing the mod). If the object costs £20 and you have a 20 £1 coins or a £20 note then the fastest and most efficient was is to use the note.
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1 hour ago, taiiat said:
not using your resources by definition is inefficient. because the usual Player is only looking for the fastest way to skip through things, and using Trash Mods strictly makes it faster.
is it the lowest Credit cost possible per Energy - no, it is not. but if you want to maximize that Efficiency, a Player should be cognitively capable of recognizing that they are slowing down the process they are trying to complete.
but in this Community, that won't happen.Lmao sure not using all your resources is decreasing efficiency to like 90% but by using them you cut that 90% by half since you have to pay more credits and use more mods for the same effect of r5 fusion cores.
In the system DE has created, the best method for efficiency was to use r5 fusion cores over everything else effectively putting a cap on your maximum efficiency in ranking mods that weren't that duplicate(even then the transfer rate was 50% of the energy in r5s compared to 25% from random dupes which have even less energy to begin with).
Also it doesn't make it faster considering you're paying more credits and so you'll have to farm credits on top of r5s and random mod drops if you're going to mix them all into one pot (just getting r5s- the most efficient method, takes ~16 hours and the credits needed would take ~12 hours).
So here's the thing, if you wanted to fuse mods, the max efficiency was 100% (duplicates going into that same mod e.g. vitality into vitality) then 50% (fusion cores or matching polarities) and finally 25% (unrelated polarity mods). In the old system the most efficient way was to use duplicates for the same mod or to use r5 cores as they yield the most energy for the least credit cost. Seeing as it would take a good chunk of time to farm a specific mod (especially rare ones) just for one fusion process, the next best thing was r5 fusion cores which are more readily available (Heiracon/Sorties/Triton etc...) this places the most realistic cap of efficiency at 50% for a reasonable amount of time spent in the game.
Any addition of 25% efficiency mods along the way increase the credit cost of ranking your desired mod, which, then causes you to require more credits and so you have to farm for credits on top of the original r5 core requirement, if you cannot see that adding on extra time required to rank a mod is more inefficient than the OG 50% assumption being the most efficient method for time put in, then I can't help you if you want to waste both time and credits.
Yes it's a waste not using up the duplicates but they can easily be sold for credits (less efficient than just using them in fusion but using them in fusion is less efficient than r5s so it's a lose lose situation) which might help alleviate some of the credit grind (~12 hours for 1 legendary mod) and so ups your 50% efficiency ever so slightly.
If you want more proof that the cost to fusion ratio is increased and therefore efficiency decreased due to time needed in grinding more credits I point you to the wiki and another detailed post on the Endo conversion rates: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Fusion
That being said DE is a company and they need to make money somehow (now their endo bundle pricing is looking better isn't it? lmfao) so players trade time for money.
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14 minutes ago, taiiat said:
how does using extra Fusion Energy from Trash Mods make it take longer to upgrade a Mod? you get more Fusion Energy, it literally is only more.
you don't suddenly get less Fusion Energy into your Mods by using more of your available Fusion Energy.
'but you could sell them for Credits' doesn't cut it because you can sell them for Fusion Energy too. and Players need large amounts of both should they wish to upgrade a lot of Mods.
I'm basing it on the assumption that you'll want the most efficient method possible.
Just suddenly using trash mods doesn't make it more efficient than r5s even with more energy also, trash mods which give less fusion energy than r5s. Also it's less efficient to sell them for credits than to use them for fusion, however, using them in fusion costs a large amount of credits so it's entirely inefficient.
If you needed credits before the change, you're going to need more and if you needed fusion energy it's going to take longer (Heiracon nerfs are still live as well only giving out 75 endo rather than 387.5) all around it's a nerf.
I can see what they are going for though, they want retention so they give you a goal and a clear number for each of the mods. They make using dupes easier to use so you feel less wasteful but in reality it ups the grind.
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3 minutes ago, Drufo said:
I don't understand your point. Previously you needed 528 R5 to max a legendary mod, right? If R5=77.5 Endo, then 77.5x528=40920. Seems fine to me.
The credit requirements jumped from 1.6 mill to 2 mill and at the time there was a bug where Heiracon only gave out 15 endo on rotation A instead of the 387.5 it really should have been. Add on to the fact that the credit nerfs seem to be here to stay, then you've just added more grind to the system and instead of making it simpler DE just changed the UI.
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22 minutes ago, Roboplus said:
Everyone is upset, but ask yourself this: Are you shocked?
You can be disappointed. But are you shocked?
Did anyone here not see this nerf coming when the fusion change was announced months ago?
Not shocked you say? That's about as much feedback as you need, DE.
Disappointed, but at this point we didn't expect any better of you anyway.
I actually really did think it was going to be better for us after the prime time episode (Megan showed how the dupes actually gave an entire bar of energy more than before the change). I could see the nerf coming a mile off but the hope was there, I'll still support DE in the hopes of them finally getting it right though and will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt on a majority of topics (if only because of my vet status and time invested in the game).
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5 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:
I have no need for more credits or lower levels of mods. The credits are there just to satisfy the fusion. Transmutation is also useless when you have all the mods you want.
The only answer is that the thousands of otherwise useless mods are fusion material. Once you start using those, there required rares for fusion will be cut in half.
Sure if you want to waste credits and take longer to max legendary mods then that's viable but there in lies the problem, it's viable not efficient and most people want to be efficient with their time ("time is money"). That's why a majority of the player base has kinda been borked by the change to Endo (you have to understand that not everyone has the same amount of credits, resources, duplicates, cores and time to spend on this game as you do). If DE balances around the people that grind all day then it leaves the people who actually play the game kinda f-cked.
Now by no means do I have a lot of time sunk into this game (1000+ hours from U7 isn't much) so I consider myself casual and average, therefore, I can see that when they balance for gamers like you it discourages many newer players as they might see the numbers and think "that's a goal I'll never reach in a game that updates every week". I on the other hand have all the nodes unlocked, am working my way through junctions for fun and know the places where I can grind affinity, focus, resources, endo and credits in a relatively efficient manner (~16 hours on endo for one legendary, ~12 hours on credits for one legendary while both have some cross-over and can be combined with affinity and resources) but that also doesn't include the 8 hours of daily content to do in the game nor does that include leveling weapons, forma farming, prime hunting or the myriad of things to do.
All in all you can do you and nothing I say will ultimately change much but can you at least see why some people are not so happy with the credit nerf?
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Just now, PrimeDCookieMonstah said:
Well, gl to those that want to buy primed mods via trading (1m credit tax) plus another 2m to max that mod, when from what i see people struggle to farm credits. xD Personally, i don't care its just i expected something else and got something else, nothing new, any game has these kind of results so i got used to it. Name bait, is a Name bait.
Kinda sad that it f-cks anyone with low income (I used to always have above 10 million credits before U15) but I guess it might increase audience retention? They can at least see their goal now...it's just gonna take around 16 hours of non-stop grinding to get the Endo needed(not including enemy drops) and around 12 hours to get the 1.8 mill credits to rank up a legendary mod.
#Goals
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4 minutes ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said:
I might be stupid here but previous system maxing a primed mod used to cost 528 r5 cores and 1.6m credits
Right now with Endo 528 r5 cores equal to 40.920 endo which remained the same but the credit cost increased to 1.9m
So where exactly is the "Fusion Simplifier or Simplified or w/e its called'
It's not simplified, it's more of a UI change and a secondary credit nerf lmao
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36 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:
What else is there to do with the masses of common mods? They are just as good as the rare cores, they only cost more credits. And there is also nothing to do with the masses of credits either. Every single time I when I max a Primed mod or something I use like 200 rares, a few hundred commons and a ~ 1 thousand common random mods.
Ahahahahahahahahaah LOL WUT. You can sell those masses of common mods for credits, you can make several levels of those common mods for different builds (differing levels of elementals or survival mods-vitality for example), you can max those rank 10 dupes and sell them for platinum, you can collect them, you can transmute them and you can also (as you do) use them for highly inefficient fusion. You can do tons of things with those mods lmfao.
I've been around since U7 and I only have 510k credits, we don't all have the same amount of time to spend on this game like you do (we have Uni and work to do) and the little bit of grinding I am able to do, does not sustain the requirements of legendary mods that have become even harder to max.
Also wut. They aren't as good as the rare ones lmao that's why they have different rarities. Rare 5 mods gave 16 energy unranked and commons gave 4. Last time I did basic maths (I did maths A-levels so I'd rather not get into proofs and bs like that) 4 ≠ 16
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2 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:
Let's say for the sake of argument that true. I don't believe you, but let's say that's true.
You really think that cost has averaged out? Really?
How often do people use common cores and ammo drums to mod? Now, before you reply, think about it. Really think about it. You may throw a hundred ammo drums or other mods, but that's small mods. Same with common cores. No one uses a shload of common cores to rank up big mods. Ok, ONE person ONE time every few months, but no one does because no one has 1,100 common cores to throw multiple times regularly.
So while you say, and I don't believe you, that this has averaged out the cost, I have directly pointed out a 14% quantifiable increase in the most used way to rank up mods. "Averaging" that with a method that has to be less used (because the sheer numbers of items used makes it rarer) doesn't really average because the number of times each method used isn't equal.
Also, it's least efficient to use any random duplicate mods in terms of credits to max a mod, therefore, a majority of players would use r5s (which is why every complains of not enough r5s) to max their legendary mods. At most efficient is cot 1.6 million credits, any increase on this is no longer an average (since a majority of players would never have used many duplicates unless it was for the duplicate mod itself) it's just a nerf.
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Just now, Troll_Logic said:
Oh, and I love how a maxed prime mod provides 220 endo.
That's awesome!!!!
Lmao that's so f-cked up
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3 minutes ago, LSG501 said:
hiercon was mentioned in devstream... likely is a bug, it's not supposed to be that low
they said about rates being around 16% higher at the top end of changing conversion but slightly cheaper at the low end or words to that effect - seriously when we've pretty much had a credit nerf they make something more expensive...
I'm not happy about the increased cost to max a mod and if I'm honest I was kind of expecting a little better return on my cores for endo, seems like another thing thats more of a grind has been added...
They got rid of that credit display bug, when I logged in I had 510k credits (before I logged out last night I had ~250k)
5 minutes ago, Sci_Ant said:Thanks a lot! Seems legit. Could you please point to an info source on this? Not the devstream video but like a thread or summary with numbers? Thanks! Anyway, we shouldn't have had to do all this math, it should have been in this thread's OP.
Lmao in their efforts of making it more simple, they made us do more maths to understand the system
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3 minutes ago, BroPyp said:
Think the credit cost is the same. And I do remember it taking a lot more than 1 million to max an R10 mod.
Nope. I just did a fusion from rank 6 to rank 10 of a legendary mod and it cost 1,731,072 credits + 35840 Endo, whereas, before it would only cost 1.6 mill from rank 0 to max + 528 r5 cores. The conversion rate of cores and credit balance is definitely wrong on this patch.
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I had ~200 rs 70 uncommons and 300 commons. I think they lowered the fusion core conversion rate because they expect us to use the duplicates? I'd assume duplicate conversion rate is increased? I haven't downloaded the update yet unfortunately.
EDIT: I got 27,734 Endo from the conversion.
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5 hours ago, 321agemo said:
1. Like i said there has been no annoucement. Something major such as a completely new focus school, that would be pretty much a PLAT ONLY option in order to farm, would have been announced on the devstream at least.
You can't criticize them for something they haven't said or done.
2. Credit “UI bug” has nothing to do with what we were discussing. (also, my 114mil credits are fine ty)
Lmao it probably wouldn't be "PLAT ONLY" it'd be released the same way the regular lenses were (are you forgetting they were "PLAT ONLY" when we first got them? It wasn't until we saw the Sortie season rewards that we saw they weren't) the site doesn't say Darvo is the only way to get them, it's an option as long as it's stated to come only from him.
Woo good for you you have credits. I'm not talking about people like you, what about the ones that are new? They now have a daunting task that could turn them off the game. I'm a low income vet (U7 and I only have 300k credits) so I'm not gonna leave the game over lowered credits and a Focus school based Vacuum but it just pains me to think these things could even happen so yes, I will criticize potential additions before announcement because it's not ideal for a large population of the game.
I'm sure everyone would like the be able to use any Focus school they like, I'm sure they want to be able to use any companion they like, I'm sure people would like to use any combo of Focus and companion rather than lose loot (in a loot based game) if they choose any combo that doesn't include Vacuum. It's the same reason they are changing Arcane Enhancements to be put into slots with free transfer, it's done so you don't lock players into using one specific thing all the time.
Hell I'm sure they'd like to be able to just use their Focus school rather than double tap 5 for their passives but that's another topic all together lmao.
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20 minutes ago, 321agemo said:
the whole point i'm making is the article isn't true. there has been no such announcement.
if there was, don't you think the forums would be on fire by now? you're berating DE for a decision that they haven't even made.
Lmao who knows what's true or not, you need a fix for the credit "UI bug" yet? Of course I'm going to criticize them for a potential decision because I believe they will make a non optimal choice
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5 hours ago, 321agemo said:
Mate, a lot of writing can be satire. It can entail the use of humorous writing, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not true. Going by DE's choices I can believe that they would make Vacuum a Focus school.
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http://www.tennoclocknews.com/new-focus-school-announced-koneksi/
"The Focus passives from the Koneksi school include effects such as innate Vacuum effects for players, increased chance of spawning Rare Containers and valuable Syndicate Medallions, higher drop chances for Rare items on Void Relics, and up to 30% increased accuracy of the Desire Sensor mechanic. Koneksi Lenses can be earned by buying a daily Darvo Deal or a Greater Koneksi Lenses can be purchased directly from Darvo on Relays for 80 Platinum "
Oh my lord. DE please this is not the way to implement a universal vacuum. Just put it into the WarFrames themselves, they can magically stick to walls and slow down their descent (suggests gravity manipulation) but they can't set it so they auto attract drops?
DE making Vacuum a Focus school is not the way. Make Carrier actually carry (like ammo, energy orbs, health orb drops for when you need them) and make the Frame have innate Vacuum.
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Rakta Ballistica....
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Just now, (PS4)maso_sage-mode said:
i play a lot with snipers....I reallly would like to have the mod without paying for it....an event would be the better solution for it...
It is an event mod LOL
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Just now, TheKurtiStryke said:
seeing how Warframe lately works,im sure that even the "founders stuff" will come back,..........if a big amount of players will start bawling
Nah that'd be digging their grave. I'm a U7 guy and been with DE hella time but if they did that it's a kick in the teeth to the founders and no amount of name displaying on the starchart or relays would be enough.
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You a good guy. They did say that everything except founders stuff would come back at some point so I'm just hoping then have "plans" for quest redoes :P
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Honestly I think for Nekros: Shadows of the dead should have ~12 shadows(7 seems too low to me for feel like I command an army of dead), allow you to select your team preference (have a select screen in the orbiter or something), his augment should allow for 95% damage reduction through linking the 12 shadows, soul punch needs to add that enemy without the needing to kill them, the shadows should auto TP to your position when you run out of a certain range and finally make them able to be shot through like Mirages hall of mirrors.
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2 minutes ago, Momo93 said:
Favorite? Hmmm. I guess Salad and Zanuka are fun to fight to some extent because they doesn't cheese much unlike the other bosses. The one I hate the most is Kela and the fact that it's impossible to solo with melee (maybe throw melee can do it?)...those rollers...no just no.
You can easily solo it with a Redeemer lol I haven't done it in a while but Ivara/Loki/Ash and Redeemer is on that &#! no problem.
Favorite: Hyena pack & Lephantis, they encourage movement and aim that I feel like not many bosses do
Least favorite: J3 since all my Arch-wing gear is trash and it took me half an hour to solo him lmao
[The Silver Grove Update] Fusion Simplified Feedback!
in General
Posted
Lmao I've kept 5-10 of every mod I own (if possible) so I can level every single one to each notch for a variety of builds and keep one to sell