ThatOddDeer
-
Posts
326 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by ThatOddDeer
-
-
6 minutes ago, taiiat said:
'perfectly' allows you to trivialize major aspects of the game while also having many types of stylistic Utility, yes.
He's usable in any mission type with equal baseline effectiveness regardless of enemy level while having the niche he's the best at(a good thing, every frame should have its niche) while not ever being useless. Even if damage was revamped as a whole, which it seems to be heading towards, frost (as well as the godtier loki and trinity) will continue to be in their amazing states due to their ability to work right out of the box and be useful to the team.
-
12 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:
The concept of "scaling" has long been a trap in WF feedback. Demand for "infinitely scaling" powers are part of the reason why the game's balance is so off-center. Damage amounts can be moderated so that they are sufficient at high levels without being overkill or irrelevant. Powers that nullify enemies indefinitely defeat the purpose of scaling altogether; when combined with overtuned damage options they make the game totally trivial and a mere slog at higher levels.
Frost has way too much packed into his kit, which as of his latest revision includes Mass/Perma CC, %Health Finisher damage, pretty good nukes (not that nukes matter anymore in current content,) and even an armor bandaid that doesn't require an augment, all on top of his classic point defense trivializing gimmick and innate durability. Frost was already problematic as "the guy we bring to make Defense missions easy," but now he can trivialize all content across game modes and factions. I don't think that the objective of frame design should be to remove all challenge and emergent gameplay from the game by offering convenient pre-packed solutions to everything the game throws at you.
While I agree with all your statements as long as warframe remains in its current state with emphasis on being able to remove enemies from combat either through crowd control or through becoming immortal, it's less harsh on people to bring things up to the currently overtuned levels of frost trinity and loki than to remove the excess power of these frames and make those than enjoy playing them unhappy; I do think that loki and trinity could use some super small nerfs to bring them in line but this is a saryn thread.
-
Just now, RealPandemonium said:
Spores in general spread Toxin in an unintuitive way, such that the best way to abuse them is to rapidly spam AOEs (Concealed Explosives.) Actual unlimited Toxin spreading would quickly get out of hand due to exponentially increasing damage, so some middle ground must be reached.
What does that mean? That she doesn't have a gimmick to trivialize level XXX enemies?
Scaling assumes that the ability would be effective from level 1-1000. For most damage frames, there are magic levels that their abilities stop working and aren't worth pressing.
The Perfect frame that is frost has 4 abilities that are always worth pressing even when their damage stops being useful without any gimmicks and by providing synergy rather than ability co-dependency as seen through the interactions of Freeze and Snowglobe.
-
Just now, Lendalas said:
What exactly is that? She is first and foremost a debuffer who allows the team to forget to bring viral, while at the same time dishing out insane amounts of toxic damage. Sure she can't survive indefinitely on her own like some frames do, but her damage output and the freedom she provides her team is unique and unparalleled. Even if there are bugs present. In fact if the bugs are ever fixed I bet she will break the game more than Ivara ever could.
She is outclassed by any frame with an elemental 1 augment, banshee and nova. They all bring essentially 2x damage or more while also having more than 1 useful ability.
The insane amount of toxin damage you claim she deals in not possible to replicate. Even with a 4 forma viral acrid and testing against a unit that takes 50% bonus damage from toxin it took over 20 toxin procs to do any meaningful damage to the nearby targets and then i still needed to finish off the target with additional shots.
She brings nothing unique or unparalleled and even if her multitude of bugs were fixed she would still not scale at all.
-
9 minutes ago, Lendalas said:
It's hilarious
-ly ineffective compared to frames that can easily do what she does.
I'd rather have an oberon in the squad than a saryn 11/10 despite my stubborn refusal to play anything but saryn to make a point of how undertuned she is.
-
I just posted this in another thread @rockscl but here's an a super detailed post on why saryn isn't performing to peoples' skewed perceptions of her.
Since Devstream 61 confirmed a future revisit to saryn's kit since [DE] felt it was unfinished. I decided to finally create a showcase demonstrating the problems saryn has had, and still has, to this date and offering insight on how to possibly fix her for the future.
You will notice that saryn's spore mechanic is not properly stacking toxin from my gas torid, much to the chagrin of everyone lauding it's synergy
codependencywith saryn's spores.Followed by this second set of tests , same patch and with the lanka (one of the few weapons that made a difference to the previously super buggy spores), you will notice that even once I change to 250% range the spreading of spores doesn't consistently transfer all the toxin procs to all the spore-less targets.
In my latest tests involving an acrid here The latest patch seems to have fixed it slightly. Armored units seem to take a drastically reduced formula for the toxin spread, non armored units do not interfere with the formula but it still takes WAY too many shots before even applying spore to deal meaningful damage with an ideal build.
Furthermore, I'd like to discuss many of the problems still existing within Saryn's kit. As such, I will reference the edited list of what has been worked on by many saryn lovers on the official forums.
1: Spore: Mostly fine as is. Would remove the arbitrary limit on only 1 spore can transmit toxin procs and maybe allow new spores to overwrite old spores if it would allow for the transfer of toxin procs
and make it so that it keeps track of all toxin procs rather than just the largest (it's supposed to combine but it really doesn't seem to do that very well not even with a lanka built for gas)strike through has been fixed, sorta.2: Molt: This ability has a lot of problems. It does not inherit saryn's aggro so enemies may very well still target saryn instead of molt ( I label this molt oversight 1). It does not scale in any fashion other than power strength and does not gain aggro range like from power range unlike Loki's decoy, this is a bug imho. My suggestion is to make it similar to snowglobe/tectonics/iron skin in which it inherits saryn's hp and/or armor value or has a small period where instead of gaining hp from damage it stays at exactly 1hp for 2-4 seconds, allowing guaranteed aggro draw time, while also allowing a skilled saryn player to time miasma to get the full benefit from a low hp molt.
3: Toxic lash. Probably saryn's most loved/hated ability that remained post rework since [DE] seems insistent on making her the melee debuffer frame(which I think is a suitable niche). In order to maintain her identity as the melee debuffer caster I offer a few changes to make toxic lash have more synergy and less anti-synergy that it currently does.
First off I would change toxic lash's blocking bonus, wasted on most weapon types if you even build power strength, to either % damage reduction like eclipse or link or an armor increase; the armor increase would make sense if we make molt scale off armor, it's another source of power synergy. This would also allow saryn to at least make use of the ability even without a melee equipped, this makes it more balanced like speed or warcry which resemble the pattern of working at 100% potential with melee but still usable without.
Secondly, to reduce it's anti synergy, I would take toxic lash not able to remove the last spore from an enemy, since that punishes you for trying to load up a target with toxic lash's poison. Furthermore, allowing toxic lash to restore more energy if you kill the target with a toxic lash buffed melee strike, 6 energy for 3 spores or 4 energy for 2 spores, and making it count as if the enemy didn't die by hitting a spore, which at the moment it does. A saryn player would feel better about loading up a single target with toxic lash and wouldn't be punished for doing a lot of damage with melee as they currently are now. I would also either make toxic lash's energy return scale from 1/2/3/4 or maybe allow the base 2 energy to scale with power strength because with the aforementioned anti-synergies 2 energy per hit (usually per kill until enemies hit ridiculous levels of tankyness).
4 Miasma: By nuke standards this ability is lame. Requires either 162.5 energy or a specific build to make full use of, has a CC that depends on enemy body type and doesn't scale with duration mods, on top of poor base range, which is acceptable for the melee debuffer frame, and the time investment to make this ability shine is not logical. This ability demonstrates co-dependency among abilities rather than any synergy, which I define as greater than the sum of its parts rather than needing all its parts to be equal to comparable alternatives because as is right now when counting a viral procced enemy it does 12.58 damage per 1 energy and oberon's reckoning deals 12.5 damage per energy without all the extra set-up AND provides better benefits.
To change this ability to fit the corrosive blast wave fantasy it presents and to fit with saryn's debuffer and DoT theme, I suggest 2 courses of action. To modify it's goop-spray nature that it currently has into something more fitting or completely rework it into something more fitting a melee/debuffer frame.
For the first of the two suggestions, I would add a small % max armor per tick of miasma armor shred. However this small % max armor per tick could be augmented for every spore currently on the target, or by the same mechanic of counting if the target has viral and toxin proc, allowing further syngery between her whole kit and allowing her access to every type of debuff she could want that fits her toxic theme. I mean come on, if shurikens, sound, ice, trin's link, fear and soon-to-be magnets can shred % max armor, the corrosive blastwave could use similar treatment.
For the complete re-work idea I suggest this. Turn Miasma into a channeled AoE with low-moderate range ALA world on fire that follows saryn and applies the same armor shred(augmented by spores on target formula) per tick. Potentially, they could move the defensive buff from toxic lash to miasma in the form of the evasion stat, as seen on agility drift, as enemies affected by the gas would have a lot of trouble seeing saryn through the gas corroding them from the inside and outside blurs their vision.
I would greatly appreciate constructive feedback on how the above changes could be modified to fit her theme more and or other creative ideas.
-
I feel like I need to link this to show that Saryn is NOT in a good place.
Since Devstream 61 confirmed a future revisit to saryn's kit since [DE] felt it was unfinished. I decided to finally create a showcase demonstrating the problems saryn has had, and still has, to this date and offering insight on how to possibly fix her for the future.In this video
You will notice that saryn's spore mechanic is not properly stacking toxin from my gas torid, much to the chagrin of everyone lauding it's synergy codependency with saryn's spores.
Followed by this second set of tests , same patch and with the lanka (one of the few weapons that made a difference to the previously super buggy spores), you will notice that even once I change to 250% range the spreading of spores doesn't consistently transfer all the toxin procs to all the spore-less targets.
In my latest tests involving an acrid here The latest patch seems to have fixed it slightly. Armored units seem to take a drastically reduced formula for the toxin spread, non armored units do not interfere with the formula but it still takes WAY too many shots before even applying spore to deal meaningful damage with an ideal build.
Furthermore, I'd like to discuss many of the problems still existing within Saryn's kit. As such, I will reference the edited list of what has been worked on by many saryn lovers on the official forums.
1: Spore: Mostly fine as is. Would remove the arbitrary limit on only 1 spore can transmit toxin procs and maybe allow new spores to overwrite old spores if it would allow for the transfer of toxin procs and make it so that it keeps track of all toxin procs rather than just the largest (it's supposed to combine but it really doesn't seem to do that very well not even with a lanka built for gas) strike through has been fixed, sorta.
2: Molt: This ability has a lot of problems. It does not inherit saryn's aggro so enemies may very well still target saryn instead of molt ( I label this molt oversight 1). It does not scale in any fashion other than power strength and does not gain aggro range like from power range unlike Loki's decoy, this is a bug imho. My suggestion is to make it similar to snowglobe/tectonics/iron skin in which it inherits saryn's hp and/or armor value or has a small period where instead of gaining hp from damage it stays at exactly 1hp for 2-4 seconds, allowing guaranteed aggro draw time, while also allowing a skilled saryn player to time miasma to get the full benefit from a low hp molt.
3: Toxic lash. Probably saryn's most loved/hated ability that remained post rework since [DE] seems insistent on making her the melee debuffer frame(which I think is a suitable niche). In order to maintain her identity as the melee debuffer caster I offer a few changes to make toxic lash have more synergy and less anti-synergy that it currently does.
First off I would change toxic lash's blocking bonus, wasted on most weapon types if you even build power strength, to either % damage reduction like eclipse or link or an armor increase; the armor increase would make sense if we make molt scale off armor, it's another source of power synergy. This would also allow saryn to at least make use of the ability even without a melee equipped, this makes it more balanced like speed or warcry which resemble the pattern of working at 100% potential with melee but still usable without.
Secondly, to reduce it's anti synergy, I would take toxic lash not able to remove the last spore from an enemy, since that punishes you for trying to load up a target with toxic lash's poison. Furthermore, allowing toxic lash to restore more energy if you kill the target with a toxic lash buffed melee strike, 6 energy for 3 spores or 4 energy for 2 spores, and making it count as if the enemy didn't die by hitting a spore, which at the moment it does. A saryn player would feel better about loading up a single target with toxic lash and wouldn't be punished for doing a lot of damage with melee as they currently are now. I would also either make toxic lash's energy return scale from 1/2/3/4 or maybe allow the base 2 energy to scale with power strength because with the aforementioned anti-synergies 2 energy per hit (usually per kill until enemies hit ridiculous levels of tankyness).
4 Miasma: By nuke standards this ability is lame. Requires either 162.5 energy or a specific build to make full use of, has a CC that depends on enemy body type and doesn't scale with duration mods, on top of poor base range, which is acceptable for the melee debuffer frame, and the time investment to make this ability shine is not logical. This ability demonstrates co-dependency among abilities rather than any synergy, which I define as greater than the sum of its parts rather than needing all its parts to be equal to comparable alternatives because as is right now when counting a viral procced enemy it does 12.58 damage per 1 energy and oberon's reckoning deals 12.5 damage per energy without all the extra set-up AND provides better benefits.
To change this ability to fit the corrosive blast wave fantasy it presents and to fit with saryn's debuffer and DoT theme, I suggest 2 courses of action. To modify it's goop-spray nature that it currently has into something more fitting or completely rework it into something more fitting a melee/debuffer frame.
For the first of the two suggestions, I would add a small % max armor per tick of miasma armor shred. However this small % max armor per tick could be augmented for every spore currently on the target, or by the same mechanic of counting if the target has viral and toxin proc, allowing further syngery between her whole kit and allowing her access to every type of debuff she could want that fits her toxic theme. I mean come on, if shurikens, sound, ice, trin's link, fear and soon-to-be magnets can shred % max armor, the corrosive blastwave could use similar treatment.
For the complete re-work idea I suggest this. Turn Miasma into a channeled AoE with low-moderate range ALA world on fire that follows saryn and applies the same armor shred(augmented by spores on target formula) per tick. Potentially, they could move the defensive buff from toxic lash to miasma in the form of the evasion stat, as seen on agility drift, as enemies affected by the gas would have a lot of trouble seeing saryn through the gas corroding them from the inside and outside blurs their vision.
Videos in spoilers below:
Spoiler -
3 hours ago, Nazrethim said:
Phasedragon is right there, currently "the floor is lava" only starts when there is a seasoned melee player on the match, otherwise people just jump to move faster but stay on the ground to fire.
The flattery is too kind -shot-
But what you say does make sense. I feel like it shouldn't be that way at high levels. Sword alone should be able to compete with gun alone, not sword and gun because proper usage of both should be rewarded, and a mod like this (especially for a lackluster weapon) exacerbates the problems of melee in experience vs non-experienced players. The extra ground mobility has the potential to increase the "omg melee is OP it instagibbed me" reactions to inexperienced players when a lobby with expierenced players will recognize it and assume the "floor is lava" mentality once a competent player pulls it out.
Personally I prefer @Nazrethim's charge attack = slow moving wave projectile more because of the freedom and skill it requires to hit an aerial target.
-
1 hour ago, Phasedragon said:
" can only be used on targets on the ground."
That wouldn't fix anything ya know right? Since pvp consists of "the Floor is lava"
While I don't think allowing to attack air targets would be alright it's most certainly not a fix to the useless system of combos on the majority of stances or any of the other issues melee has.
-
1 minute ago, Insizer said:
I'm not gonna lie. I don't and won't use her for super high level content, but I do understand your concerns. I've read similar ones multiple times on the forums. And for the most part I'd agree that some things could still be tweaked. But she is far better off where she is now than she was before, gameplay-wise imo. Again, this post was written by a guy who picked up using Saryn again after almost a year. So this is in part just a commentary on her kit on a basic level.
She's better off than she was for a long time, which is true and I'm glad for that. But, what they did do(in my opinion), bring back the most powerful incarnation of her 1, while not really making the rest of her kit better overall and actually making some of it worse, toxic lash, is not worthy of being called a rework. More like a regression actually. Compared to the perfect rhino and frost, and the nigh perfect excal rework, saryn's just feels flat.
-
4 hours ago, SquidTheSid said:
I don't dislike the rework in theory, and she's a lot of fun in lower level missions, but the rework still has a lot of issues, mostly centering around building combos to make a weak ultimate slightly less weak.
Not gonna disagree with you on Spore, it is quite effective, though you need a very large AoE weapon like the Ignis or Concealed Explosives Hikou to really make Spore shine.
Molt doesn't scale at all, so it pretty much dies instantly in most higher level missions, and Regenerative Molt should be baseline functionality (especially considering that duration is no longer a dump stats). It really needs some sort of scaling like Atlas' Tectonics or Rumblers. The damage bonus to Miasma could also be rescaled to work based on health remaining to boot.
Toxic Lash is a really weak skill. Compared to Speed or Warcry, it's very underwhelming. It's completely useless if Saryn doesn't have a melee weapon, and when she does, it only makes her tankier while blocking, and the damage bonus it provides is underwhelming. Also, it's not an AoE like Speed or Warcry. I'd increase the damage bonus to the old Contagion values (I believe it was 75%), give her melee weapons some bonus range (which would synergize with Spore), make it a team AoE, and give it some sort of constant damage mitigation, either through increasing evasion or giving a very substantial armor/damage reduction bonus (maybe 50% that scales with Power Strength and caps out at 95% or something?). Slightly increasing the spore energy regen and letting it scale with Power Strength would be nice as well. Also, something needs to be done about the augment as it's terrible. Either scrap it or throw it into the base ability, but it's useless as it is right now. If the energy cost needs to be increased to 75 to counter-balance these changes, then so be it, but it makes the ability worth using)
And Miasma is just a turd. Really expensive for what it does, and the damage falls off quickly. I'd just outright double its base damage by making DoT ticks occur every 0.5 seconds, and make toxic and viral procs double the number of ticks instead of adding bonus damage. I'd throw in a guaranteed Corrosive proc on every tick to boot. Maybe it could also Blind or slow enemies affected by it so it'd have more utility against the Corpus, but that's not the biggest issues.
Oh, and undo the health nerf. It's stupid and entirely unneeded, especially since DE wants her to be a melee-centric frame.
I see my ideas have reached far and wide :P
Additionally, fix the anti-synergy toxic lash has when popping spores or killing enemies?
Also corrosive procs won't be adequate until hopefully damage 3.0. 25% of Current armor means that you need exponentially large amounts of procs for 100% armor shred and it means miasma will benefit less than similar abilities from power strength. A % max armor stacking per tick that scales with power strength makes sure it works consistently like other armor shredding frames and allows saryn to not have to cast miasma 3 times to achieve what other frames do in 1 press
-
3 minutes ago, Xarteros said:
That's fair enough, I'd really need to make a different build to run a channelled power either way though, since I usually run at negative efficiency and slightly negative duration XD
Evasion seems to be the perfect stat I was looking for, I was actually thinking of the Elytron Archwing's Core Vent cloud, but apparently that only blocks missiles and projectiles that enter the cloud.
On that note, it'd be interesting if Bombard/Napalm etc projectiles were to explode upon entering the Miasma cloud, but I feel like adding that in as a feature would just be stacking more and more unnecessary complexity on the ability. Maybe as an augment mod (with an added chance to melt normal bullets too) or something?miasma doesn't really need an augment. I think just letting it shred armor and grant evasion as saryn uses it in a channeled form would be perfectly alright
-
2 minutes ago, Xarteros said:
Just commenting in terms of themes, not being nitpicky
I think the notion of Avalanche breaking armour is thematically fitting, metal becomes increasingly brittle as its temperature drops and if it drops enough it can literally just snap. I can understand sonic vibrations weakening metal as well, seeing as high enough frequencies can shatter objects with the sound alone. Terrify almost makes sense, if an enemy is running away, they aren't making full use of their armour and might be opening themselves up to attack, but if anything that would be closer to a weakpoint system like Sonar than an actual armour reduction. Ablating Link and Seeking Shuriken don't make any real sense though.
If Miasma were to get proper armour shredding, I'd be perfectly fine in balancing its damage downward (even though it's not great anyway) so that it's more solidly based around debuffing.
If it were a cloud-based effect that follows Saryn (Like WoF or Maim), would you go Channeling or Duration? I'd personally prefer Duration, since channeling would press too much dependency on efficiency and just water down her mod builds.
I'm still a bit torn as to which style of Miasma I would prefer as default. On the one hand, to suit the theme of melee focus it would be useful to have the effect follow you so it doesn't need to be re-cast as often. However, depending on the duration of a static cloud version, it might be more useful to be able to deploy a few to either increase your combat area, or have some active clouds at nearby choke points to shred enemies before they even get close to you.
As a side note to her survivability, for either style of persistent cloud effect (instead of goop spray) would a penalty to enemy accuracy be useful? Thematically, it's harder to precisely target someone in the cloud, it could make the ability slightly more useful to defend key points (damaging/armour melting melee combatants and diminishing long ranged attack accuracy). I know it's not necessarily an ideal usage of the power in all cases, but do you guys think it would be useful/fitting?I know of how ice/sound/fear can make armor less effective but my argument was they made LESS sense than corrosive at least in a warframe player's mind. I'm willing to say channeled-based rather than duration because that means duration also plays into its energy cost. As to making it harder to shoot saryn, maybe make use of the evasion stat that agility drift offers, simulating how its harder to hit an enemy in a cloud of gas.
-
39 minutes ago, Klistyr said:
-snip-
Thx for reading this horrible mess of my ideas guys. And sorry for my english not a native speaker.
I suggest reading my posts on the last 4-5 pages. I've outlined a clear-cut path to fix her bugs and make her into the more melee-oriented frame she seems to intended to be by [DE]
-
1 minute ago, (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx said:
THAT...THAT right there has been ANOTHER thing I have seen that's gone through cycles through many threads. And I have liked that idea most of all. The ability for Miasma to actually melt armor. And you are completely right. Miasma doesn't have to do absurd amounts of damage, because its utility should compensate for it. Though I don't think it can only happen through multiple corrosive procs, maybe it can be percentage based. Kind of similar to how Avalanche works. She can be the best at applying procs, but her procs fall off when you're messing around with high amounts of armor. If her ult can do that job, then the rest of her abilities should be able to handle the rest, it seems like a fair compromise considering that her ult, just doesn't feel, 'ultimate', forgive me if my statement sounds kind of vague, I honestly don't know how to explain it lol
It's alright, many in this thread have agreed to this idea as a whole, at least miasma shredding armor, since it;s a corrosive blastwave when avalanche is just ice???
Corrosive proc is currently too weak to function for this purpose and % max armor shred, like avalanche, should be the solution. It's old pre-rework description called it a "flesh and armor melting gas" and why it doesn't melt armor but ice/fear/healing/sound/metal shurikens do is beyond me.
-
1 hour ago, (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx said:
That seems like a really good idea, the second option I mean. I've seen it quite a few times on this post. The latter would be awesome as well, but we already have the same in SG, Tectonics, IS etc. To have the same but the inverted effect would be something new. Also, the 3 second timer could pop up, giving you the amount of time you have left to get the most damage out of Miasma.
The timer sounds like a good idea.
However I'd be fine with scrapping the damage boost to miasma if we turn miasma into an AoE that follows Saryn that shred armor rather than being a goop-spray whose CC doesn't scale and is a boring radial nuke.
-
2 minutes ago, akira_him said:
I meant to say it should be the same as iron skin, sorry for misreading your post
It's not a problem now that you've had the chance to correct yourself.
I think it needs to be slightly different than iron skin, where it sits at a low value of hp, and maybe absorbing a portion of the damage dealt rather than all, and can then be detonated by miasma for maximum effect. This allows a skilled saryn player to figure out if it's better to pop the molt at minimum hp or allow it to continue to draw aggro for her ( assuming we fix all the old bugs with molt).
-
As a melee enthusiast I can agree wholeheartedly with OP's statement about channeling.
Instead of (rightfully) bashing channeling let's discuss how it can change in the future.
My idea is to bring a channeling resource bar (think stamina) that is not used by anything else. This bar, separate from energy, will be used to fuel both channel blocking and regular channeling, and alongside the Soon TM confirmed channeling by weapon type changes, and could be affected by un-equiping your primary and/or secondary
Like 50% more channeling fuel and 50% faster channeling fuel regen rate with both unequiped. This makes the channeling mods more likely to be used in our already cramped builds without fear of crushing our energy stores.
-
Just now, akira_him said:
For consistency to other health based abilities, first option alone will be fine
I just want to detonate it without recasting another molt
But for consistency for with the other health/armor based abilties it should also have a period where it can NOT explode, because it surviving to draw aggro and power up miasma is just as important as it detonating.
-
Let's discuss what direction Molt could take.
We discussed the possibilities of letting molt scale with saryn's hp/armor ALA tectonics and letting it stay at 2 hp for 2-4 seconds ALA iron skin/snowglobe combined with quick thinking.
I'm partial to the second option myself but could the first one be considered?
-
Just now, S0V3REiGN said:
You misunderstand, you see I didn't post this here to ask for your approval. I am also not here for you to tell what I should or should not play. I play the star map as I please.
Then please remove your baseless discussion and anecdotal evidence. You posted something almost 100% irellevant to the topic at hand and when shot down you try to hide behind the excuse "I do what I want"
If you have nothing meaningful or constructive to add why did you click submit reply?
-
2 hours ago, S0V3REiGN said:
Lol... I take her everywhere, sorties survivals (grinner, corpus and infested), sortie interceptions, void survivals, jordis raids, Draco, moon missions, ODD, Pluto infested excavation. Believe whatever you want believe.
Anecdotal evidence is not proof.
Most of what you have stated are joke missions.
-
3 minutes ago, S0V3REiGN said:
So today, while only using her for only 1% of the time I have reached 50,000 kills with Saryn Prime. :D I think her DPS is just fine,
killing trash mobs + anecdotal evidence is not proof.
-
1 hour ago, blaes said:
Except that those others melee frames have good defensive tools.
Valkyr has paralysis, higly spammable CC, and hysteria, damage immunity on demand when she needs to heal.
Inaros has dessication, finisher opener with extremely strong CC and life leech, and damage immunity while devouring an enemy (which is also a heal).
My ice chroma is more like 60000 EHP. And I think I could push it a bit further with armored agility/vigor (or QT) if I really felt like it.
I face-tanked the last sortie assassination from start to finish, including the boss.
This is all alright too. These are tanky frames doing their job, surviving, excellently. However, when a melee frame like saryn is outdone in melee by frames not even meant for it, both in damage and survivability, then there is a problem with the frame not performing as intended.
Saryn and her limitations
in Warframes
Posted
I can love the frame I play the most while still being critical of her flaws. She IS outclassed by all those frames in her own niche and I find that unacceptable, thus my massive post regarding how to improve the frame I love. Your rapid conclusion that assumes I don't care about the frame just because I pointed she is literally outclassed by frames that aren't supposed to fill her niche bothers me greatly.