Kinperor
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Posts posted by Kinperor
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Or DE could avoid all the extra unnecessary work (I hate raids by the way) and just make the syndi-scarves tradeable. As of the time of this post no one has been able to provide an example of any harm (beyond harm to some petty players' egos) that would come from this change. "loss of identity/uniqueness"-still unsubstantiated. "they're lazy"-being employed isn't lazy. "you didn't earn it."-I earned my money and exchanged that solidified sacrificed time for someone else's virtual solidified sacrifice of time. "most cosmetics aren't tradeable."-So? A while back completely built weapons weren't tradeable, syndicate weapons changed that. There is a first time for everything.
Dismissal of argument is not the same as absence of arguments.
I am excessively tired of this discussion so I won't bother re-writing another essay just to explain my position again.
TL;DR: There should be some status symbol in the game and you should consequently deal with the fact that some items are valued more by their status than their appearance by people other than you.
No I don't care about you wanting a Syandana very bad. I have absolutely no care for people that wants the latest syandana really bad and will get the next shinies they can find to replace them.
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No, either these raids give out the true syndicate syandanas or its a no-go.
Good.
What I am saying is I'm ready to have a more lax position on the matter on certain conditions.
As far as I am concerned, they can remain unattainable other than farming reputation and all of our lives can carry on. I don't really care if my hypothetical conditions doesn't suit you.
Exclusivity fans can go build a bridge to avoid drowning in their tears for all I care. DE never once declared these syndicate syandanas to be exclusive to members of those syndicates. Never. So the exclusivity argument isn't even remotely usable.
I'm not drowning in any tears. In fact, the ground is so dry there's some sand for you to pound.
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Wait, are you implying you're going to change syndicates and get all six syandanas as well?
Not at all. Not even a chance.
Unless they add an alternative. The middle ground I suggest in another post is making them available through Syndicate raids, but only after completing a good quantity of them and dealing with the reputation gains of such raids (that wouldn't be high enough to you change Syndicate, unless you actively try to or ignore your standing).
Otherwise, if you are not going to get all six syandanas, what trophies are you talking about? You are not going to get them, but I am. My trophies will be my, why are you bloking the easy way for me?
Oh yes, and believe, symbols will stay symbols, doesn't matter how much they cost. You see, these little Orthodox wooden beads I bought, it cost me a dollar, not more. But it is a symbol for me now, I will not trade it for something else. I wear them every day, man, this is my symbol, and I don't care if there are thousands of these same beads are being made and sold for a dollar to other people.
I used the plural of "trophy" because you used the plural of "chain". Beyond that, I can get more than one syandana, ergo I have more than one trophy to look forward to.
In the case of Syandana, I do believe that making them accessible will kill the symbolism, especially if a lot of people only want them for the "pretties".
You can give them the importance you want, but ultimately, if everyone and their dog has a syandana, they functionally have no meanings other than the one self-attributed and are reduced to cosmetic items whereas they should be status item.
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Blunt honesty: I think it's ridiculous to equate "killing an hitsquad" to "actually being a high ranking member".
I'm all for adding rewards to the Death Platoon, but that's not a good way to do it, even with the "nerf" to the syandanas. Rewards for POSITIVE reputation should never be the same as rewards for NEGATIVE reputation, it's just ridiculous.
In addition, this 'solution' doesn't address the syndicate that are neutral to you. Assuming players want to stay neutral, this way of implementing doesn't help them.
I have a suggestion for a middle ground that I posted elsewhere in response to you, but I'll do it again:
First: Add Syndicate raids, which is to say the super missions DE are preparing. Reputation are handed out like syndicate dailies.
Second: Make honorary Syandanas available after the player complete many of these raid for one Syndicate. Honorary syandanas are less glamorous syandanas given to players that helps the syndicate but only in Raids as a token of appreciation from the syndicate for service. The player doesn't need to change syndicate to wear them, but he still has to deal with the reputation variation from the missions reward.
EDIT: Neutral players will still have issue, but they have mean to compensate and are not required to go to any extreme (either max rank or lowest rank).
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First,a very nice post,nicely written and very constructive.
Now,onto topic -
1). Machete Wraith is not exclusive the way you said it is. Because it didn't depend on which faction you supported. It depended on which faction won. Sure,community decided who won,but regardless of your decision,you were given the Machete Wraith. And you also got it's counter-part,the Prova Vandal in another event. So,Machete Wraith is as much exclusive as Strun Wraith,Snipetron Vandal,Braton Vandal,Lato Vandal or any other special edition event weapon for that matter. I don't see what you were trying to establish here.
2). About choosing which mods to max first and which to max later- Lets see an example.
Suppose I have Serration and Hornet Strike. I decided to max out Serration first. Then I decided to rank up Hornet Strike. Sure I need a good amount of time and grind to do both,but at the end of the day(or rather month),I will have both mods maxed out. And these will be permanent. When I rank up Hornet Strike,I won't loose ranks with my Serration.
Now another example - Suppose I like Syndanas from Suda and Loka. So first I chose Suda,go to rank 5 and buy their Syndana. Then,I go onto to New Loka,max them to rank 5 and buy their Syndana. At the end of the day,I will have both Syndanas,but what I won't have is rank 5 in both Suda and Loka. I will lose Suda rank when I rank up Loka. It's like I lose ranks on my Serration because I am ranking up my Hornet Strike.
So,you see,"Mod maxing example" doesn't fit with the current scenario,no matter how hard you try.
3). Eos Prime Armor will come back,it is just a matter of time. Its not like you won't ever get it again. Also,I don't see a problem with DE making Eos Prime Armor to be tradable. Also,your argument for the ability to obtain all the syndanas is not a practical one. Its same as above. When I nuy the Eos Prime Armor next time Baro has it,do I get locked out from the next set of Prime Armor he sells? No,I don't. But in Syndicates,once I abandon a syndicate,I get locked out practically. Theoretically, I can max out that syndicate again,but every time a new cosmetic is introduced,I will have to max out each syndicate and while I am at it,I will get locked out on the previous syndicates.
So,yet again,Baro ki Teer's items don't exactly compare to Syndicate items because different mechanism apply.
This wouldn't have been the case if we didn't lose ranks in one syndicate(when we are max on it),when we max out it's enemy syndicate. But thats not possible.
4). Lore part was not directed towards you. It was a general statement for Lore fan-boys. By the way,Lore doesn't matter because it has not been incorporated in the gameplay. Its not because people like me dismiss it. Think of it this way,suppose we take an example of Mass effect series. It is one of the games which has an amazing story. Now,would you like it if you had to just kill enemies in Mass Effect and you would have a Console in your Normandy which had paragraphs describing each alien? No,right? Same thing applies here.
5). Since you gave example of Hunter Sigils, a pretty good idea came to my mind. I will make a thread about how Syndicate Syndanas can be obtainable yet untradable.
You see,we get Hunter Sigils by defeating a hunter,right? So,how about we get syndana drop from Eximi platoon.Obviously,there will be negative effects if you wear a syndana from a syndicate where you are not Rank 5 yet. But thats a different suggestion. Before you say cosmetics don't drop from enemies,sigils are cosmetics... =P
Now the part where you defeated my arguments -
Gradivus Dilemma Emblem - Yes,the only thing that was unobtainable based on the decision I made. The thing is that the emblem are so insignificant that I forgot about it. And I am pretty sure no one gives a damn about that emblem. And I can easily say that it ia an exception,an insignificant one at that.
But,I don't like to go back on my words. I won't argue that the Syndicate Syndanas should be tradable anymore. This does not mean that I am saying they should not be obtainable in a more practical way.
I will open a thread about that in Suggestion section and link it here.
Also,just becasue I bolded this part doesn't mean I want you to read only this part. I would request you to read the whole thing.
Now the big question -
It seems that the only reason people want Syndicate Syndanas to be untradable is because of exclusivity. Its because it shows our loyalty towards a particular syndicate. So,basically,while most of the community wants them to be exclusive or rather wants them to be a token of loyalty,few of us wants to "catch 'em all". So,if I say that I have a way by which the exclusivity will stay intact yet the syndanas will be obtainable,would you guys(those who oppose them being tradable) agree? It will be a middle ground for both types of people(which would mean more work for Devs,sorry DE).
You'll forgive me, I don't feel like writing any more essays, so I'll go over that quickly:
1 & 2: As I stated in my previous post, I am aware the comparison aren't perfect. They were used for discusion value to explain my stance. Yes, mods are indeed "permanent", but the fact remain that you'll have to make decisions with them. In the case of syndicates, it is obviously a different decision and you can "go back" on said decision. Wraith was just brought up as a "community choice", since the faction winner was decided by the community, similarly to a democratic vote (but different, obviously).
3: I liked to bring up Eos Prime because in the span needed to wait on all pieces, a working Tenno can transfer Syndicate if he will. The comparison is because you can't skip the time and material requirement for neither Eos Prime nor "all" the Syandanas.
4: Let's drop lore then, it has nothing to do here.
5: I think that's a bad idea honestly. Not that something drops from the deathsquad: My issue is equivalating a ~5 minute fight (at worse) to attaining rank 5. Even with downside to the scarf (which isn't something DE want, if you look at the arcane helmets), I can't support the idea because you shouldn't be rewarded for going against a syndicate with a high reward of said syndicate. I myself has suggested before that the deathsquad should drop "nega sigils", sigils that basically give negative reputation for a syndicate instead of giving positive reputation to the opposite.
Beyond that, no. Fighting the death-platoon =!= being rank 5 to me. Not even with downsides to the drops.
As for availability to people outside the Syndicate, I (obviously) would keep availability to a minimum. The middle ground I would offer to the devs is to add Syndicate raids, complete with a 8 player squad and all. If a player join a Tenno who is on another Syndicate for a Syndicate raid and does enough of said raids, he can eventually get a 'honorary' syandana without changing syndicate.The player would still have to deal with reputation change for completing a mission with an 'enemy' or rival. But if he does enough raid, I'd be OK with making a similar syandana available.
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I'm not going to read this entire thing, but one bit popped out to me as I was scrolling passed it.
That isn't entirely true. I can buy and sell warframe steam skins as I please. Yes, it doesn't go through trade chat but I am technically capable of trading them thus some purely cosmetic items are tradeable.
In example- http://steamcommunity.com/market/listings/230410/Phased%20Asa%20Syandana
Touche.
I didn't think of it because they're mostly a Steam "shiny".
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Sorry, but this really sounds like you just dislike everyone, who uses platinum to, for example, buy some Prime part, instead of legitimately grinding it to hell and back...
Now now, don't paint me up like a boogeyman who hates fun and 50% of the playerbase.
To answer your statement, my problem with the current prime part market is the Void drop table that forces this whole situation in the first place by making the acquisition of a prime item a freaking chore, instead of a meaningful "journey", to use a strong word.
Beyond that, I feel unease over players that encourage this system but otherwise have no strong feelings.
I've always felt we need a balance between accessibility and meaning for equipment.
Right now the prime parts are too accessible and consequently, I have lost any kind of inherent 'respect' for people with prime equipment. They got tugged down their stand of "exotic and cool weapons" to "just weapons", and consequently I have no more reasons to care about them ingame as I have to care about any weapon whatsoever. So I don't. And the game feels drab because no weapons in game have an "exotic" feeling to me.
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You can... by changing your mind and saying that syndicate syandanas should be tradeable. Come on. You like to help people, I know. You want those blue karma points. Say with me 'syandanas should be tradeable', right here, right now!..
...you won't? Eh, well, I promise, I will work on my persuation skill a bit more.
Exactly the thing I disagree with. In the game or in the real life, everyone should be able to get whatever they want. Ideal freedom, with all them pluses and minuses. And in 90% of games I can achieve it one way or another. This probably explains why I only ever played 2 online games: APB:R and Warframe.
And while I left APB:R, I love Warframe and I definitely do not want it to be spoiled by those, who think that people should not have evrything they want. I don't want your chains, thanks.
No one's over-reacring. I'm just saying that it should've been fixed time and time ago. And now, with syandanas being untradeadble, it is even more persisting problem. It is not over-reaction, just a reaction.
I meant I can't help you to stop thinking you're dumb. You'll have work that out yourself.
Look, I sympathize with the feeling that you want to sit down and get things instantly and all. It's a valid thing to feel and my end goal is not to make sure you and other "payers" players miserable.
However, when the Devs makes something very accessible after or during a period where I worked to get it, then said reward loses its meaning. You feel "attacked" in your 'right' to get any shinies you want, I feel "attacked" in the signification I attribute to whatever I am getting.
If you do not understand this, I have nothing else to tell you. Humans are hard-wired to accord a lot of importance to symbolism and the meanings of things. I want this goddamned scarf to be a symbol, not a cheap cosmetic passed around for 1 bucks and forgotten promptly after .
The equivalent reply to your (overly melodramatic) "I don't want your chains" would be "don't steal my trophies".
PS: I'm using big words like "symbols", "meanings", "attacked", but let's not get overly excited here, this is a game. I'm only naming concepts to better explain my stance, no one is going on a shooting spree or anything over this...
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The Overtake alert made me scream bullS#&$.
Nullfiers were immune to my Glaive Prime's throw (!!!), the other enemies swamped the map like someone turned off the restriction for spawning, I kept getting magnetized and losing my shield (which is KIND OF IMPORTANT for the missions completion), the damage was subsequently through the roof on their end while we had almost no means to counter in kind. The rover needed constant babysitting and didn't allow us to step even just a few step away, severely limiting our visibility if we weren't on top of it.
I resorted to cheesing it with Frost and a teammate Mag because it was so frustrating.
The quantity and quality of enemies (lots of Eximii and Nullifiers) coupled with the requirement for a thrown mission made the mission very unlikable to me because we felt powerless as we cradled to the rover.
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Ahem, back to the conversation at hands...
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On the subject of the permanence of choices in Warframe:I do not have the responsibility of guessing when you forget a word as important as "permanently" to make yourself clear. I'd also like to point out that there is nothing permanent about Syndicates, you can change Syndicates if you want to. It's a boatload more work but it is possible. Saying the current structure of syndicates locks you out permanently of a cosmetic is fallacious, it's objectively wrong.Furthermore, I stand by my comparaison with mod-maxing. It isn't a perfect comparison, but it is on point on the logic of Economic Decisions that can be made in Warframe. In the case of 10-ranks mods, the average player (and even veterans) are physically unable to max more than one 10-rank mod in a short period of time (save exceptions). Ergo, a player cannot have his cake and eat it as far as mods are concerned, they need to prioritise their resources accordingly to their preferences. Decisions such as "do I want extra damage on my rifles or on my pistols?" needs to be done by the players (or the third choice of partially maxing, which isn't the most damage you can get when every mod slots matters). The same thing occurs with Syndicates, the player cannot physically max all 6 Syndicates at once, and must consequently make a decision about which Syndicate is most important to him. If a player only partake in the Syndicate System for Syandanas (kind of weird but let's roll with that), he will need to prioritise which Syndicates will get his attention, and the Syandana will be a token of his decision. Both objective (Maxing as many 10-ranks as possible VS getting as many Syandanas as possible) are possible if given a long enough period to work on them.The point is, hard decisions exist in Warframes already. If the player insists on having his cake and eating it, he can physically attain his goal, but he is making his live harder for himself.Where this comparaison falls short is that mods are tradeable – which is acceptable because they're practical items, whereas the syandanas are status items, which is the reason why I am against their tradeability. No one cares that you have a maxed 10-rank anymore. I do not want people to think the same of Syandanas (IE that they have no meaning due to ease of access).Another weak point of this comparison is that you can stop “early” in mod-maxing and reach a satisfactory point without actually maxing them, which isn't possible with Syndicate. Disregarding that detail, the comparison holds validity for discussion value.On the subject of player-caused inavibility of items:AKA “I don't want to lock myself out of a shiny”, or more precisely I want to address your point about previous items that are unattainable to Tenno because of their own decision.DE is going out of the beaten paths with these syandanas. Consequently, I do not believe they need to comply to the decisions that were made for different items that preceded.With that said, if you really want to see a precedent in the game for a similar matter, I bring your attention back to Gravidus. While the Brakk was indeed introduced following the Grineer victory as a temporary 'exclusive' and was followed by the Detron much later, there were three other 'permanent' consequences:- Machete Wraith is still to this day an exclusive. While it was a “community” decision and can possibly leave the vault again (I doubt it, but it's possible), the fact remain that for players, there was a decision on which weapon to prioritize. It didn't lock you out of getting the Prova Vandal ultimately, but the precedent is interesting nonetheless for the discussion.
- More importantly, the emblem of the event was 100% a player made decision that locked you out of another item (IE you can't get both Corpus and Grineer emblems). This is the closest item I can think of that fulfill your 'request'. This isn't an item as complex as a syandana, but it has one job: telling you who the players supported. And if it was tradeable (it isn't), it would completely ruin that one certitude and become another unremarkable event emblem that works more as a timestamp to inform you of when the wearer was playing the game instead of informing you of the player's alignment (which I find much more interesting).
- Lastly, the Gravidus conclusion shows that DE is OK with permanent choices made by the community. Which is to say, they didn't hit reset to please everyone, the Grineer won and that was that. It's not an item, neither does it matter a lot in our everyday live, but it goes to show that player-made permanence exist in Warframe, even in the lore. (There was the matter of the hack, but that was a malicious player's action and was appropriately reset)
Furthermore, the second best comparison for the syandanas that was recently introduced: The Eos Prime armor. In the case of the Eos Prime armor, the item is time-gated into exclusivity and un-tradeable. Your only option is to wait out Baro (if he even cycles). I think this all the more interesting, because in the time window he is away with the item you want, you can probably pull off a syndicate transferal to get another syandana. This goes back to what I was saying above: the syandanas are not permanently out of reach, but you do need time and material resources to get them. Just like Eos Prime, which is (again) untradeable. Eos Prime is different in that the “time” variable is imposed to you, whereas the time variable of a syandana would be self-imposed.On the subject of Syandanas as tokens of allegiance:As another poster mentioned, the front page announcement outright use “ Wear your accomplishments and allegiance with glowing pride by donning these six new Syndicate Syandanas!.I don't know what kind of official words you need beyond that. They are status symbols, and even if they aren't, there is clearly a large amount of players who wants them to be.On the subject of “why they shouldn't be a token of loyalty”Disregarding the fact stated above and in this thread that many people wants it to be a token of allegiance and was stated as much by the developers, I honestly don't see the relevance of your argument.The initial introduction of the Syndicates were obviously very barebone. If we start basing every decision of new items on their previous absence from the system, we're going to have a bad time because it's missing a lot.My honest-to-god reply would be:- Cosmetics really shouldn't have much influence on your favored syndicate. Furthermore, I don't think you wanting a cosmetic really bad justifies the use of a status symbol you didn't earn because you settled with another syndicate.
- If you regret your choice that much, you can still change Syndicate and recognize New Loka as the real power house.
I'd like to point out that I do not see an issue with “allegiance” changes. Deserters or veterans who keeps emblems of their previous allegiance is a common trope in fiction already, it is acceptable (to me at least) to include it in the game that way. Furthermore, allegiance change is not equivalent to trading in a syandana in term of work required to acquire said item.On the subject of lore:... I didn't say anything about lore?Regardless, lore won't matter as long as it is dismissed like you just did. There is many way to include lore, but to be honest I have no idea why it even pertain to this conversation, I didn't even start to fathom an argument based on lore.In conclusionI don't even know why I bothered writing all this. The emblem example of gravidus alone should be a good reason for you to retract your argument (based explicitly on what you said). They aren't currently available, but to those that were there then, they were functionally exactly what you asked for (an item whose choice nulls your access to another item).The second best example is the Eos Prime armor for the reasons described above.Third best example would be the Hunter sigils. They aren't mutually exclusive, but they aren't tradeable either and they also serve as more than a cool design, which is to say it shows you have killed the affiliated Hunter. If these were tradeable as well, we'd quickly get people wearing these despite being physically unable of standing up to the Hunters, and then they'd be meaningless (cool looking, but meaningless). To clarify, I don't mean to say they're equivalent to Syandanas. I am merely making a comparison between the two.Not an example, but I will restate that pure cosmetic items are not tradeable, like the statless alt helmets, event skins or market-skins. Weapons do not belong in the pure cosmetic group of items because they are more than cosmetic. Syandanas however do belong there, and subsequently have no reason to be tradeable other than for a poor sod's convenience. EDIT: It was righteously pointed out that there are Steam skins that are tradeable. I am not aware of other exceptions.A completionist will get all Syndanas anyway, by abandoning his Syndicates and farming the others... There is no allegiance except that in the mind of who believe on it.
As I said above: "I'd like to point out that I do not see an issue with “allegiance” changes for Syandanas. Deserters or veterans who keeps emblems of their previous allegiance is a common trope in fiction already, it is acceptable (to me at least) to include it in the game that way. Furthermore, allegiance change is not equivalent to trading in a syandana in term of work to acquire said item." With that said, if we're looking at it with a role-player perspective, multiple instance of turn-coating (for scarves!) can get kind of weird in a character's historic, but that's another can of worm.
To reply to your post directly, people who turn coats at least bothers to hit the criterias for their new Syandanas. Contrast that to people who would pay only 40 plat for the same distinction.
Additionally, I feel a lot of people purposefully ignore the amount of work and material wealth required to be "absolved" by a syndicate. And by absolve, I mean just getting out of the maximum negative, without mentioning the work required to get to rank 5.
To me it really doesn't feel like the 'possibility' of people turning coat is reason enough to open the dam and make Syandanas tradeable. In the first case, a negligible fraction of the player base will bother jumping ship for a syndicate syandana. In the second case, a significant fraction of the player base will get a stupid easy access to a syandana they didn't 'earn' or don't actually care for the meaning of it.
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Err... wait, what do you mean by 'worth'?
Anyway, if by 'worth' you mean 'useful' then yes. For me they will be usefull. I will use those syandanas, they will please my eye and boost my fantasy...
Which is scrap for you is a treasure to others. Otherwise, some old coins and postmarks won't cost as much as my car. This applies to virtual collectors, collections and collectable items as well.
We're going nowhere fast with this argument. You want to wear pretty things, I want pretty things to remain exclusive. Let's agree to disagree.
I can't imagine someone actually going 'I traded for all Syandana'. And I definitely can't be impressed by someone going 'I farmed for all Syandana'. This will actually make me think that this particular player is an idiot.
I actually agree.
Yes, basically I want to save myself from another reason to have thoughts like 'the man in front of me is a dumb fool' every time I look in the mirror.
I can't help you with that.
DEvs approve this point.
I'm not always for grind, but in this case I think it should exist and more importantly I think players should accept that they can't get everything, or if they do they might have serious priority issues.
Nice, now let's just give it up on any issue that didn't make the game collapse.
Not my point. My point is everyone is overreacting to this particular issue.
See bold replies in quote.
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Point one: you have your sigils. They make your syndicate unique and stuff, now let me have syandanas I want. Of course, it is only my useless opinion, which nobody gives a thing about, but still, I'm highly, highly against any cosmetic stuff that is somehow exclusive or hard to obtain. I feel pain when I read about Obsidian PS4 skins unavailable to PC palyers, or that fresh XBox skin... Now, while I actually can obtain all syandanas, it is pretty hard to accomplish this. And I think, there will be only more rewards, more syndicate levels and more syndicate rep to earn, so it will be only more difficult to change syndicates for syandanas. And there will be people, who'll grind this stuff to 'catch'em all', so why we should have another meaning to appreciate the grind and make those who don't like it jealous? Just make syandanas tradeable, thanks.
Point two: read first post of this topic:
Did it? Nice. Now you can easily understand, that Steel Meridian/Red Veil tennos can't get more than two syandanas without penalty, while others can. I do not know why it has not been changed yet, because the topic is old, but the thing is still out there. It is fact. SM/RV guys are one-syandana-behind others...
...unless I miss something, yea.
And P.S.
There's other solution: make syandanas a drop from those assassin squads; it is a pretty good decision too.
Thanks for reading.
Point one: There are a variety of sigils beyond the Syndicate ones. One cannot be blamed for seeking more ways to express his syndicate affection, either because he want to wear different sigils or because he wants to wear both a sigil and a syandana.
I honestly don't care about the "I want to collect everything" argument. Collectors are so concerned with having access to everything, they forget to stop and wonder if the scrap they collect is actually worth anything. If Syandanas were to be made tradeable, they would probably be worth ~40 plat or something. That's @(*()$ nothing, don't make me laugh by saying the Syandanas will still have their meaning when I can do double that by drawing someone an emblem or by trading a Flavor of the Month part/mod. I can't imagine ever being impressed or simply caring by someone going "I traded for all Syandana!" Now if you farmed the damn thing (which IS possible), I might consider being impressed. Maybe.
You want it, grind it.
Point two: ... OK? The world didn't collapse because of that balance issue, it's not because there are syndicate scarves in game now that it matters any more than it did before.There are still means to partake in other syndicates even with the RV/SM pairing.
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Your sentiment is understandable but your logic is false. The average player (3 maxed syndicates) can wear 1 of 3 syndanas that are 'special' in your view while in the bigger picture hold no value. There's also players with 5 and 6 syndicates maxed and those completely shatter your view. Furthermore, any high MR player can max 3 and then max the other 3 using Rep farm and some resources in a reasonable amount of time - again destroying the value that you perceive (which is almost non-existent with the current syndicate system [easily 2 max/ 3 if more active/ 4/5/6 for the devoted]).
TL;DR: if you really are against trading then come up with a compelling argument - something that isn't inherently broken by the game itself.
If they have all these syndicate maxed, they worked to max these syndicates so it doesn't matter if they get access to more than one. At some point these players made the conscious decisions these syndicate were worth syncing time in. If Joe Bloe can go and just buy a Syndicate's syandanas he never gave a F*** about before, THEN my position is shattered because the syandanas were already accessible to Joe Bloe. In the case of a multi-syndicate player, he actually gives a F*** about his standing with all Syndicate, or else he wouldn't bother. Even if he doesn't care more than "It's pretty!", it doesn't really matter to me, it still shows dedication.
Similarly, if an average player has three maxed Syndicate, he must at some point have made the decision it was worth is time, you can't "accidentally" max three syndicates. If he earned it, he earned it, period. It absolutely doesn't justify me changing my stance on trading.
As for reasons why they actually shouldn't be tradeable, no other cosmetic only items are tradeable. Arcane helmets have stats changes and are an exception. Eos Prime? Can't be traded. Stat-less alt helmets? Can't be traded. Dagger Skin? Can't be traded.
Beyond that, I consider that keeping the syandanas as exclusive dedication-syandanas is a compelling argument, regardless of how much you want to handwave it to suit yourself.
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And to all those who oppose Syndanas to be tradable, you guys and gals have a very wrong notion of what signifies loyalty towards a Syndicate. Try reading a bit before jumping to a conclusion.
SIGILS are the things which show loyalty towards a faction , not Syndanas.
Yet,we can trade sigils.There is absolutely no reason for syndanas being untradable.Also,Warframe was never a game of choosing one thing over other. If thats the case,then DE will lose quite a few players.
Edited as someone pointed out that Sigils are not tradable.
It's not about the 'written' show of allegiance.
If I bump into someone in a mission that wears New Loka's syandana, I can easily tell at a glance that I've got a real New Loka member in my squad (without any doubt) OR that it's someone who grinded New Loka's reputation before jumping ship (which I find kind of dumb but whatever).
If the syandanas are tradeable, all I know is that the mouthbreather in my mission may or may not actually like my syndicate, but the probabilities are much higher that he just bought it like he would buy any syandanas on the market. I really don't want syndicate syandanas to just become "another syandana" in the game because some people throw a hissy fit because they can't get everything spoon-fed to them.
"Warframe was never a game of choosing one thing over the other" <- You have some explaining to do about mod builds and mod maxing prioritisation. Did you even play long enough to play the Gravidus Dilemna? How about the fact that we're meant to actually choose a syndicate but people like you insist that we have less and less consequences to belonging to a specific syndicate until Syndicate might as well be the same entity and choice is irrelevant.
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I don't really care, but if you want DE to remove prime gear trading go make a thread on it. Maybe they'll listen.
You're missing the point.
The point is I don't care that some other items can be traded, I still don't think the Syandanas shouldn't be tradeable. My stance remains the same.
PS: Thinking DE will remove tradeable gears is wishful and delusional thinking. The community attention is elsewhere and the market that bloomed around Prime Parts makes it too big to remove without the community having a bigger hissy fit than what we witnessed during Vivergate.
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That argument applies to every tradeable syndicate item and if you remove the allegiance bit it also applies to the rest of the tradeable items in this game.
I'm glad you mention it!
I also do not like Prime equipment trading and would remove it if possible! I am on the fence about Arcane Helmets.
That it was implemented before does not mean I approve of more stuff that can be traded.
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I can't believe there are players in favor of not trading these Syndanas...
I can't believe some people wants to get the stuff I worked my butt off just to have the right to buy it without actually bothering with the whole "showing allegiance to a syndicate" fluff.
For the records, I was against tradeable Syndicate Weapons as well.
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No thank you.
They'd lose any meanings of actual allegiance if they were tradeable.
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i don't think he's entirely wrong either, though.
when i play Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer - Team Synergy is off the charts, even with random Players.
makes every moment much more enjoyable, because i know that the Players are working together, doing cool stuff that you normally can't do or do as well.
and then i look at the clock, and oshi- where'd the time go.
Warframe certainly doesn't have anywhere near that level of Team Synergy.
I haven't played Mass Effect 3 (Origin and botched ending? Blah), but I did play Monster Hunter Tri, and I can tell you the synergy in that game between hunters is just batS#&$ insane. I'd murder a puppy to have something like that in Warframe (OK, maybe not a puppy, maybe just a picture of a puppy).
I don't know where I am going with this. Probably something about how Warframe is a completely different game where team-synergy is less prevalent but still present and we might see more in the future.
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Smite isn't too bad, but trying to use the Fireball or Freeze augments is just painful.
Honestly, I would find them more interesting if they gave a high chance to proc the element on top of the weapons standard procs. Something like a 50% proc chance for the element in question. This would allow players to actually see the augment doing things and would make them appreciate being buffed more.
As much as I'd want them too, procs aren't really relevant in the current meta-game, save maybe for lower-levels. Procs would first need some tweaks to make them relevant at all power level. That or rebalance the whole game, which isn't that far-fetched if DE really wants to do the "quality" year.
i'm not sure if you basically just said 'Slot 1 Abilities can and only should be lots of DPS'.
as for 'complexity', Augments take a Mod Slot. if you want to convince Players to Equip them, they need to compete against a LOT of other Mods.
Augments therefore have the highest call for complexity of any Mods in the game. they aren't Stat boosts or modifications, yet they still need to complete against those kinds of things for use.
because who is going to Equip the.... Fire Blast Augment over.... most other Mods?
few, if any Players.
That's not what I said. What I said is that these mods are legitimate and that we can get new mods that are more varied than plain DPS.
I already use these mods and consider they have a legitimate spot in a Warframe build.This thread is to highlight they could be a bit more competitive while still promoting teamwork, not to ask for new mods (new mods are welcomed by me, but it's not what the thread is about).
I just had a feeling I'd see a topic like this eventually. The first ability buff augments are pretty powerful, but most players wouldn't want to equip them because the lack of teamwork oriented gameplay and lack of team mindset in players means most players don't stand still to let teammates buff them, which decreases the already small incentive to equip a mod purely meant to benefit other players, not yourself.
This augment is very powerful, due to the nature of teamwork and positive duration multiplier involved. Some other augments are potentially strong, but are gated by duration, which is the most neglected stat on any warframe expected to primarily deal damage. The way I see it, augments like these are just DE's way of catering to a more structured form of player teams which barely exists in Warframe. Players in this game do not work together often to a degree where buffing teammates is expected, and duration is considered that stat you usually prefer to have less of if power strength does anything for the warframe in question. It's as if DE is catering to a player they want playing their game, but barely exists in the majority audience of Warframe.
In short, this heavily teamwork oriented mechanic is better suited for another game with another audience of players. Warframe's audience is mostly everyone for themselves, with the exception of resurrection. It's okay to give some perk to the player in question to justify their role in helping others. As for those less favorable augments relying on duration or taking up a slot for something more reliable, just give the players more offense (damage, debuff, or stun) and balance this all out when the future steamroll rebalance arrives.
You might be surprised by the amount of players who actually form teams and make a plan beyond "go with pubbies and kill everyone".
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I find that they are extremely uninteresting augments and no matter how strong they become, there still could have been way cooler things done to those abilities.
One thing to note is that the buffs of the elemental augment mods stack multiplicatively. If you put three on one person the damage that they will deal is utterly absurd.
I find them interesting because they get me to do things beyond "shoot the enemies" in survivals. Buffing Tennos is a more challenging task than you might expect when they run around wildly.
Smite Infusion you may find will be useful in the void for a teamates build designed to kill bombards (Radiation).
Yes, that is where I bring it most often. I don't see however how that relates to the subject of this specific thread.
i feel like we can find useful things for the Caster of these Team Buffs (more like giant DPS Multipliers, totally needed those, heh) that isn't just more Damage for you.
i'm sure there's plenty of other things we can do that isn't just more Damage.
I'm not entirely sure what else they can be for. "First" powers are not typically very complex in nature, I don't really see a reason to give them augments that are more complex or "special" than the base skill we have. With that said, I am not against more varied augments, but I think the ones we have right now fill a niche that is legitimate in the game and gets me to pay more attention to my teammates beyond "Are they alive [Y/N]".
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(Despite referring only to Smite Infusion since it is the mod I tested, my post applies to all similar augments)
I've been playing with Smite Infusion for quite a while now, and I feel like the bonus damage to teammates doesn't feel rewarding enough.
Now don't get me wrong, Smite Infusion can make quite a difference on lower levels with enough strenght. But one of the thing that I noticed repeatedly is that my teammates have at best a mildly good impression of me trying to buff them 24/7, whatever missions we are in.
With the importance of giving up a mod slot solely for the buff, I feel like the mod ought to do a little bit more for the user than empowering some other players who might or might not appreciate the extra damage.
Keeping in mind the objective of augments mods (IE not straight and mindless buffs, save for exceptions), I think a good way to make the mod more rewarding is to give the caster 33% of the buff value per cast on an ally. For instance, if I give my Kubrow and my teammate a buff, I have 66% worth of Smite Infusion bonus damage (82.5% per default at max rank). If I cast Smite Infusion 4 times, I get 133% of the bonus damage (166.5% per default at max rank). The reason it is split at a third of the buff is to add an incentive to actually cast the ability on a teammate more than once, as opposed to casting it once and calling it a day.
With this mod being potentially super OP (IE casting the ability on like 8 allies, NPC or Tenno), a cap might be required.
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TL;DR:
- Smite Infusion and Co's benefits are too indirect for the caster.
- The user should feel some practical benefit from being a good support.
- The mod should still encourage teamplay.
- Considering all the above, every cast should grant the user a fraction of the damage buff. Continuous team buffing is rewarded with a buff to himself.
- A cap might be required for balance reasons (since it's possible to get a LOT of possible recipients for the buff).
That is all, thank you for reading. Feel free to comment and discuss.
- Smite Infusion and Co's benefits are too indirect for the caster.
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Je veux certainement un Oberon Prime, mais je ne pense pas que nous allons l'avoir bientot.
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Go on https://warframe.com/ and get in your user options (when logged in, click your name and "account management") and find the "rename clan" option.
It costs 200 plat.
De Should Make Syndicate Syandanas Tradeable
in General
Posted
I've known this was the problem for quite a while.
My position stays the same. If anything it's stronger thanks to your post.
If your only reason to have it tradeable is "I want it!", I have no doubt that in a few weeks of time you'll stop caring about them because a new Syandana was released and you prefer to wear that one.
No sir, I am not trading the inherent symbolism of a syandana just to temporarily satisfy your entitlement for a couple of weeks. Meaningless cosmetic items are a dime a dozen, get one of those.