[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

2 часа назад, (NSW)Blackoween сказал:

 

Artekkor, this testing was done without Hunter Munitions, right?

Because if so, this shows that even without slash, "if the only pro[c]s are Impact and Puncture," Viral is still the better choice until very high levels (1000+) where 80% armor reduction is more like a 7-8x damage multiplier.

Yes, of course. Literally just Serration, Split Chamber, a fire rate mod to speed up the experiment and two 60/60's to get viral / corrosion going on.
Well, and karak had standart crit mods, but that's it. No HM.

Viral Boltor Prime simply dealt more damage to a level 170 grineer bombard than a corrosion one.
+325% bonus damage to health was doing a better job than 80% armor reduction against in enemy that probably has armor in thousands. Go figure.

[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

4 часа назад, kwlingo сказал:

Are you using Hunter Mutation? If your weapons can slash with Viral, Corrosive stands no chance. If the weapons doesn't slash Corrosive usually will out perform just Viral.

I don't. In fact i intentionally avoid using HM.  Mostly because i just don't like it. And its irrelevant anyway.

As can be seen from my experiment couple of post above - viral status build is superior to corrosion status build even if one excludes all other sources of damage like slash and heat procs.

I wonder i should put tthat experiment into OP for better visibility...

[Railjack UI bug: Corpus Walkers everywhere]

Update / bump.

- "Deadlock protocol" update (and its' hotfixes) didn't fix it.
- Tried changing language of the game to russian and back to english to see if its a localization error. Didn't work.
- Created support ticket, to see what they have to say. Awaiting answer.

Just in case: this is how it looks like.

[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

36 минут назад, -Kittens- сказал:

I use both, depending on weapon and build and again corrosion never should been top dog in the first place and secondly throw fire and corrosion on a kuva nukor, things die just fine.

 

You've also provided zero evidence other than MUH NOSTALGIA on why corrosion should still be the only mods ever put in any weapon at any time, cause that S#&$ was boring as hell for five years.

I don't want it to be THE only mods, i want to be a viable alternative - which it isn't. Its an INFERIOR alternative. I wan't it to be equal so i had a choice. Because i prefer my bullets being coated in corrosive substance and not AIDs. Its almost a fashion choice for me, but that's besides the point.

I did a test right now in simulacrum: +60% IMPACT Kuva Karak against level 170 grineer bombard.
Standart modding: Damage, Multishot, Crits... And then two 60/60 mods. (and a fire rate, to speed up the test).

Corrosion takes ~2,5 magazines (~175 bullets) to kill a single bombard.
Viral takes ~1,5 (~105 bullets). In fact, it doesn't even need the half! In majority of cases the bombards just die to GODDAMN SLASH PROCS which drain the remaining 40% (!!) of their health bar after the first magazine.

Alright, let me find a gun that doesn't have a slash to finish the job... How about Boltor Prime? Literally 0 slash.
Viral took 6 magazines (~360 bolts).
Corrosion took 8 (~480 bolts).

Again, this is against level 170 Grineer Bombard. The most armored POS there is. THE definition of an armored unit.
Conclusion: Corrosion status effect is INFERIOR to Viral status effect when dealing with heavily armored opponents.
(Unrelated Conclusion: Slash status effect is still overpowered compared to other physicals)

If you don't see the issue here, i'm afraid we can't even continue to debate this.

[Primary Kitgun quickest loader animation needs a 2nd pass]

I think the reload animation on primary quickest loader is kinda broken. Not only does it look physically impossible (probably due to unnecessary mag-tap ejection AND twist), but it occasionally LITERALLY breaks with the warframe holding the gun in the hand its supposed to be holding the new magazine in.

The gun just ends up flipping all over the place and bam - now its reloaded.

Let it auto-inject (like what happens to SLAP and its' variations) and then the warframe should just smack the thing into place without twisting it. The twist doesn't look good on this particular series of loaders - doesn't seem to be practical.

[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

10 часов назад, -Kittens- сказал:

Viral was the strongest status until it was nerfed, now it's the strongest again, as it should be. You're just mad because corrosive was put where it used to be; as a  armor specific side grade. Viral's strength is boosing other sources, corrosion was a literal catch all lazy ass bandaid to combat completely bullS#&$ armor scaling.

But its not a sidegrade. Viral literally outdamages corrosion when it comes to status-capable guns. Does your guns has at least 15% status chance and has a good fire rate? Put 60/60 viral on it - instantly superior to corrosion when it comes to grineer, THE armor faction.

I don't even feel the difference when i use corrosion status builds. Even if i deal more damage, its not noticeble, unlike viral when you can immediately see and feel how the procs ruin the level 80 bombard.

Corrosion's status effect is WORTHLESS. It does jack S#&$. I don't feel any effect from it kuva lich territory enemies, from level 1 to level 5 liches.
Level 1 territory dies to anything anyway, but level 5 seems to clearly die way faster to viral - proven on Kuva Hind, Kuva Karak and Kuva Twin Stubbas.

So the question remains: why would i use corrosion on a status-capable gun? Because right now the answer is: "Don't, just put viral on it - its just better".

[Is there any reason why kitguns don't have high tier variants of the high capacity drum and quick reload clip?]

21 минуту назад, Rawbeard сказал:

and so is "max damage" instead of "just more damage". you don't seem to understand the basics of this system and just want more for the sake of wanting more

I don't understand your argument. What's "max damage" and "more damage" and how are they different?
And if i don't understand "the basics" please do explain them to me.

As far as im concerned its a system where you make a custom gun accustomed to your specific prefferences (fire rate, reload speed, status or crit, etc). And this also includes fashion choice. However, the fashion / preference choice seem to cost too much in stat difference.

Again, the argument that these 2 loaders do not exist out of balance concerns comes from the assumption that they would be superior. But would they, truly?
Lets take a primary rattleguts and give it the drum.
83 ammo, 2.1 reload time... Alright. Now lets give it the splat.
67 and 1.7

~23% magazine size and ~23% reload speed difference. Seems like a perfectly balanced trade to me. Trading the actual firepower seems to be unreasonable under these circumstances.
Even if this trade IS somehow unfair... Why not just escalate drawbacks? Make the clip even smaller, make the reload time even longer...

And yes. I want a choice for the sake of having a #*!%ing choice and not putting the goddamn splat / ramflare on every single kitgun i make. Wasn't having a CHOICE the entire goddamn point of making modular weapons?

[The primary Kitgun grips look a wee bit smaller than I imagined]

Double this. I was hoping for an assault rifle, got SMG's instead. Not a bad thing necesserily but still...

[kickbots AI is still dumb as rocks]

They hired humans already. Literally got approached my a moderator today because apparently saying that something "is trash" in region chat belongs to the forums, and forums alone.

As for kickbot's ability to understand context...  I don't think he's an AI. He's a bot. He looks for predermined words / combinations of words and that's that.
Changing him to an actual AI would be one hell of an upgrade for a game-development company.

[Is there any reason why kitguns don't have high tier variants of the high capacity drum and quick reload clip?]

1 минуту назад, DrBorris сказал:

This is assuming that the extreme ends of mag/reload are just "better" than the middle options. This is not the case in the slightest, the sustained DPS of mags with the same crit stats are well balanced (unlike the grips).

A min mag, max reload Kitgun is not objectively any better than the middle options. It is a missing piece of customization as the middle two options are so similar in gameplay that fashion is often the deciding factor. 

This guy gets me. Its precisely the forced choice between fashion or MAJOR power difference that bothers me a lot. For example i don't really like the KILLSTREAM, but SPLAT is literally modeled after tombfinger so using it with other barrels makes it feel inapropriate (not to mention that i don't want to use it on every single one of them).

[Is there any reason why kitguns don't have high tier variants of the high capacity drum and quick reload clip?]

29 минут назад, Rawbeard сказал:

so you want one with both highest capacity/reload AND highest crit/status? that would move them to a tier higher than the "highest crit/status with high reload/capacity", you do realize that, right?

I do, but i do not see it as a power issue. As far as im concerned its preference for people who either love reloading every second or reload once in a lifetime or something in-beetwen.

This makes the crit/status ones just... Better. Who cares about having 10 extra bullets when you can make those you already have hurt way more? The game even aknowledges this by giving them increased standing prices.
Hell, i wouldn't even mind if tier 3 drum and clip had SLIGHTLY lesser crit/status.

For example - in tombfinger's case its 7% more CC and 0.2x more CD.
If that difference was... 4% and 0.1x i probably wouldnt mind as much.

[Is there any reason why kitguns don't have high tier variants of the high capacity drum and quick reload clip?]

I personally find it very weird that when it comes to highest tiers of the loaders for kitguns (the ones that provide highest crit or status values) we only a choice between 2 models - the tube and the standart clip.

Meanwhile the high capacity drum and quick load clip stop at the previous tier and don't go higher than that. Is there any particularly good reason for this to be the case?
Because i would love to make a drum-magazine rattleguts machine gun, but i feel hesitant to do it, because i know that there are simply superior loaders to use and feel like an idiot for not using them instead, even if i don't like them fashion-wise.

[will we ever going to get a Tonbo Prime?]

Most likely, just unknown when.

Every tenno-made weapon is eligible for priming. Warframes are primed in the order of their release (or at least try to), but weapons are primed chaotically depending on what artists will come up with on a whim.

[Banshee, the most outdated Warframe of all with only one ability that is worth using; Sonar]

While i disagree with the somewhat agressive tone of the OP - i'll have to agree that banshee is by far one of the most outdated warframes in the game together with Zephyr.

Her abilities, while useful in some extremely specific curcumstances, are by and large outclassed by a whole bunch of far superior warframes. There are warframes that can crowd control better, deal more damage and use less energy while at it.

She might need a rework in the same style as Ember and Saryn - better abilities that synergize and feed of each other to a devastating effect.
Until then i literally forgot that she exists. I haven't seen one in a 60+ level games in a looooong time.

[Railjack UI bug: Corpus Walkers everywhere]

I have a very weird issue in Railjack where every single space enemy - every ship, every turret (but not infantry) - are for some reasons called "Corpus Walker".

This issue been bugging me for a while. I don't know if i'm the only one experiencing this, and i my only guess for a fix is to reinstall the game from clean state, but i kinda don't want to do that, especially if fix is not guaranteed.

Integrity verification check does not help.

Цитата

Hello again.

I’m bumping this thread for a short second to provide the answer and the cause of the issue.

 

In game «Settings» > «Interface» there is an option called «Show Enemy Names».

For personal reasons, i have this option turned off. For on-foot gameplay this option works as intended, but for RJ in-space missions the enemies do not lose the name pop-up, BUT they do lose their names, hence why all of them are called «Corpus Walker» (probably a place holder name or something?)

 

I turned the option on back by circumstance and that caused the enemies to have their proper names back.

 

So the «bug» per se is not that RJ enemies have wrong names, its that «Show Enemy Names» option does not work as intended for RJ enemies (they lose their names, but not the name pop-up).

Something for developers to check on and fix — if possible.

 

[Don't let riven disposition changes distract you from the fact that kuva farming/riven rolling is an outdated Gacha system]

I'm not precisely sure if riven system is even something DE wants you to "invest" into. Its kinda an ass-backwards system that allows to keep outdated and out-classes weapons in the game, without having to actually buff them.

Which is fine by me, since i'm a sucker for some S#&$ty guns that just look cool or something... But yes, the system does not care about how much time you invested, its just a slot machine you roll for the sake of rolling it.

I proposed some kind of stat-locking system before, but nobody ever aknowledged.

[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

6 часов назад, Aldain сказал:

Then we buff Corrosive and people complain Viral is too weak now.

...Meanwhile Gas is dead and rotting in the corner, Magnetic is still pretty much a joke, Blast is Blast and Radiation is barely clinging to life by a chunk of Alloy Armor.

I mean... We could strike a balance where the difference between the two is not entire 2-3 bursts of Kuva Hind when dealing with a level 90 bombard. Maybe like half a burst... I would be fine with that.

The rest... I think they have their case, its just grineer are still a superior faction when it comes to tankyness (and they are also the most common enemy).

Radiation being anti alloy-armor is acceptable, although one still wishes the proc did a little bit better.

Magnetic still has a case against corpus, especially sortie corpus with enhanced shields, but it overshadowed by toxin which just bypasses the thing completely, so uh... Nerf toxin?

And as for gas... The issue with it (to me, att least) is that it exists to be exclusively against infested, yet it deals bonus damage to the trash mobs like chargers, when the real threat are goddamn ancients which are - oh boy - are weak to corrosion and blast. Who in their right mind would prioritize killing chargers and runners over ancients, broodmothers and infested MOAs?
And it wouldn't be that bad, if it wasn't for hardcore damage reductions against everything else that isn't infested. Its essentially insanity to use it against grineer, and while somehwat acceptable against corpus - toxin, once again, is just a superior option.

While at it: why the hell electricity deals lesser damage to armored units? Shouldn't the grineer armor work as a conduit and make it hurt even more?

And blast... I don't even know what to do with it. The real life explosives are effictively a sure way to kill anyone and anything, since explosives to bullets are what maces and hammers are to swords. Yet in this game its... I don't know what it is. Knockdown made sense, but was super annoying to work with. The current accuracy debuff is useless for sure. And once again: no damage aplications.

Might as well rename it and call it FLASHBANG since that's what it is now. Maybe blast should be capable of blinding enemies completely and opening them to finishers? Like a full-blown stun via concussion.

[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

2 часа назад, kevoisvevo сказал:

upto a certain level and high depends on the armor value too.

Dont know man, viral + heat status-focused kuva ogris did a good job of 170 level bombards in my simulacrum test for a friend. Couple of well-aimed shots and entire squad of bombards just burned to their deaths.

[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

3 часа назад, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 сказал:

Wouldn’t mind it’s final armor strip % being higher.

Im afraid its not going to help. Even if they'll make it 99% - viral will still be able to out-burst it. The only way they can do it is to make it be able to remove armor completely (even if for a time being) and probably reduce the amount of required stacks to do that, otherwise by the time you remove all that armor viral would probably already kill it.

[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

33 минуты назад, ShortCat сказал:

Corrosive status is bad because it has a cap now and cannot fully strip armor. That's the issue.

Partially, yes. Full armor strip was quiet a feature. Although it would rarely ocur in the wild, unless you specifically build for it. Usually enemies would die before that happens, minus bosses.

[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

15 минут назад, MetalGrayFox сказал:

The post is laser focused on corrosive, but really the issue is wider. Who's running gas? magnetic? blast? Probably 1% or less of people. The meta just shifted with the last pass (which I believe was aimed to balance these status effects). So sadly but almost expectedly it failed to deliver and now we wait another 5 years for the next pass, as from what I have seen these types of posts are not being addressed by DE in the slightest. 

This is true. Status  effects are an issue in general with lots of them being not universal.

However, we got used to those things. I dont mind gas being anti-infested and magnetics  being anti-corpus.

HOWEVER, i do have an issue with CORROSIVE - the anti-armor (which basically means anti-grineer) damage type being inferior AGAINST THE GRINEER when compared to a far more universal damage type that is viral. I think its deeply counter intuitive and simply wrong when the one damage type that's supposed to do something against armor loses to a universal alternative.

[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

5 минут назад, Tyreaus сказал:

I'd be for that.

I think pretty much every faction-specific element - Magnetic and Corrosive both - should have some kind of universal application. Even heat, against non-armoured targets, has a DoT.

_{Blast and Gas also need some help...}

Oh yeah, definetely. Blast is just sad these days. And gas... Can't say much except: my status-gas Daikyu would occasionaly ruin grineer units before rework. Now? I don't even know.

[Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass]

Ever since the status rework i noticed that corrosion as a damage type became far less desirable on weapons with status potential.

Its still a good damage type with weapons that do not proc and just deal damage (crits, raw...) but anything that has 25%+ status chance benefits from having now overpowered viral far more.
Kuva Quartakk, Hind, Kraken and many others seem to follow this pattern. With two 60/60% status chance mods - the Viral appears to reliably outdamage Corrosion against grineer. GRINEER! A FACTION THAT RELIES ON ARMOR!

I propose that corrosion status effect needs an additional effect besides armor reduction.
My personal suggestion: how about - following the theme of compromising the target's defenses - it should also increase critical chance against the target? Lets say +5% additive crit chance per proc, maxing out at +50% crit chance at 10 status stacks.

It would help the corrosion to hold at least some kind of leverage against all-destroying viral which became essentially mandatory for any weapon with faint status potential.

 

 

EDIT: Adding a result of a little experiment i did down the line of the thread to make a refference point.

A test in simulacrum: +60% IMPACT Kuva Karak and Boltor Prime against level 170 grineer bombard.
Standart lazy modding: Damage, Multishot, Crits (only in karak's case)... And then two 60/60 mods to make viral. No heat / hunter munitions.

IMPACT KUVA KARAK:
Corrosion takes ~2,5 magazines (~175 bullets) to kill a single bombard.
Viral takes ~1,5 (~105 bullets). In reality it takes even less since i can just stop shooting after first magazine and the remaining 40% of bombar's HP gets drained by slash procs in majority of the cases (~70%)

BOLTOR PRIME (no slash present, no heat).
Viral took 6 magazines (~360 bolts).
Corrosion took 8 (~480 bolts).

Conclusion: even excluding all the DOTs from the equation - viral status builds SIMPLY end up dealing more damage than corrosion status build. Against armored opponents.
This completely removes any reason to use corrosion - an anti-armor element - on a status-leaning weapons. Even weapons with basic status chance of 15-20% and somewhat decent fire rate (something like Azima) have proven to be slightly better against grineer with viral equiped.

This effectively made corrosion's only point of existence to be the +75% damage bonus against ferrite armor, and only in case if the weapon is INCAPABLE of using status effects semi-effiiciently - which means 15% status chance or lower with a lower than average fire rate.
Valve please fix

[Split Chamber]

4 часа назад, ShortCat сказал:

Multishot consuming extra ammo would turn it into a fire rate mod.

Which was the most reasonable critique of the proposal. Which brings up back to the point that its easier to just kill the damn thing all-together.

[Split Chamber]

Ironic that i stumbled on this thread considering i came here aboutt the idea of a new mod because i'm genuinely pissed off and had enough of bows shooting double-arrows. I JUST WANT TO SHOOT A SINGLE #*!%ING ARROW LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING WITHOUT HAVING TO SACRIFICE LIKE 30% OF FIRE POWER.

Multishot is a cancerous mechanic. When they were thinking about reworking it to consume ammo i was genuinely happy, but negative feedback caused devs to throw idea into the trash.

Still hoping they will commit to it and finally kill it one day. Or just provide an alternative...

As in: i want a mod that increases damage, but forbids ANY use of multishot mods and is incompatible with them. Obviously the mod would have to be OP, something like +250% to compensate the loss of firepower with multishot, but i would use that on bows in a heartbeat.