Birdframe_Prime
-
Posts
9,090 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Birdframe_Prime
-
-
10 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:
A single point sample is irrelevant.
The single point sample is the single player, not a single game or a single experience.
6 hours ago, quxier said:Quantity in your examples doesn't matter.
It does. Because you're not taking the aggregate experience of all players, or the experience of one player playing once with every single person in the game. You're taking the experience of one player that cannot possibly play with every single player in the game.
You're also correct, Quxier, because the average player isn't blocking every toxic player they play with, so you can get repeats.
One player may never see any of the toxic players whatsoever.
One player may see all 10k toxic players.
One player may see the same 50 toxic players in their games over and over until they start blocking them and getting new ones.
That's the entire function of the deviation for a single-point sample of one player's perspective.
Proportion is just an average. You can only expect it to apply when taken either as a full sample of the entire player base's experience, or as a full sample of one player's near infinite number of games where they play with every single player in the game at least once. A single-point sample literally can and almost always does defy the averages, defy proportion, almost by requirement to create an average overall. It's statistically unlikely in any sample size larger than single digits for any one individual to match the actual average exactly.
Do you see the logical fallacy that people like Lord_Drod are trying to create?
By saying that the direct numerical increase cannot change a person's experience of the game when what you're basing this on is 'the proportions are still even, therefore the experience must still be even', that is just plain denial of how proportions and averages are achieved mathematically.
So the question is, are they going to dig their heels in and try to insist that a player's experience must match the proportional average experience? Or are they going to admit reality?
-
9 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:
This is definitely false. If the proportions stay the same, you aren't more likely to run into toxic players.
7 hours ago, L3512 said:Your math is wrong.
I don't see what you don't get about this.
From a single point sample, it doesn't matter what the proportion of players are, you are able to get more of of one type when you increase the numerical quantity, even if it's in proportion.
From an overall sample, which is where proportion matters, you get the same amount proportionally. Yes. But that's like saying in true RNG, you are statistically likely to get a specific result after only 15 attempts, and 'nearly guaranteed' after 30, that's true for the overall results. For the individual results you have direct and recorded examples of the specific result not occuring for 60-100 attempts, or after only 1. That's because the average, or proportion, is a combined result that smooths out the outliers.
From a sample of one, having 10x the players you don't like in the game means you are able to encounter more. Regardless of the overall average set by the total experiences, if your sample size is 1, you can have that bias because you now have 10x the quantity. It works the other way too, if you didn't like role-player type tenno, ones that are hardcore into the lore and behave accordingly, you are going to notice way more of them in the game if you multiply the player base, even if it's in proportion. Because that's your sample. One point.
This is the key point to understanding sample sizes in mathematics and how they bias statistics.
-
So... Let's see...
I'm a little confused at the Arcane choice, you've put on Molt Reconstruct when you have Blood Altar for quick healing of both you and allies, and you're upset at the negative Duration, when you could put on Molt Efficiency instead and easily get to 120% Duration for you casts, even if your shields ping down after the actual cast.
Alternatively, you could have Archon Shards on there to bring that up.
And the real solution is... you have Bloodletting. Swap out Transient Fortitude for Blind Rage, even one that's a couple of points from the top, and you have better Strength for the slow on Wyrd Scythes, you'll have a 1:1 ratio on percentage of health to percentage of energy (which on your build works out to about 425 Health for 455 Energy, not a bad trade when you have the healing built into her kit) or better if you de-rank Blind Rage a little, and your Duration will be at 95% so a single Archon Shard can take you back into positive numbers.
And I don't see why you have Quick Thinking there either... It's technically a second gate, but even with that efficiency, any damage that gets through your Shield Gate, your Healing and your ability to jump out as an Operator to escape lethal status or situations, will also be strong enough to completely drain your energy and leave you with no way to get it back by using your Abilities. So it's kind of redundant.
Hmmm... Okay, let's try something to get you the same or better stats, but with a little twist, it'll take you two more Forma to get from this build to the one I have in mind, maybe three, depending on what you'll go for.
Ditch both Transient Fortitude and Overextended. Forma in two '-' polarities for Augur Reach and Stretch. You now have enough points to put Cunning Drift in the Exilus.
What does this do? Your base Duration is now up to 95% without Transient, your Range is still 190% with the three Range mods, your base Strength is up to 155% without Overextended, your Efficiency is still 160%.
Use Molt Augmented and Molt Effiency, this will get your situational Strength up to 215% and your situation Duration up to 155%.
You now have a flex slot that you currently filled with Quick Thinking, but you can fill it it anything else up to 16 mod points for the cost of a Forma.
Without costing a Forma you can throw in Adaptation, Primed Sure Footed, Boreal's Hatred (for that 175% Efficiency, as well as some more shields to feed your Gate duration), Nira's Hatred (for base 110% Duration, so you can switch back to Molt Reconstruct if you want), Amar's Hatred (for a little more base Strength on Wyrd Scythes), or even one of the Gladiator mods to help with your melee. Out of the choices, I would probably go with Primed Sure Footed on the non-Forma option (because knock-downs can be lethal), and if you put a Forma on... Probably the Augment for her 4 to give you a tap-function on the cast for the same effect in a radius of 17-18m without the charge-time, also good for her Talons melee combo when you're using them.
Now?
Your base stats are better than the original build, you have a little shield restore when you hit an Ability (not much, but enough to get past the regen delay), and you even have a little more mobility with the slide from Cunning Drift making you go faster.
I think that'll help you out ^^
-
1
-
-
The most typical buff that people suggest is that it should deal both an effect and substantial damage when you cast it with your Lethal Progeny active.
In combo with these, casting should pause the Duration of Progeny, and it should multiply the damage based on how many you have active.
So 2x with one, 4x with two, and 8x with all three. And the Status chance of the Bleed goes up too, so you have an 80% chance of Bleed per hit too.
That, at the very least, would maintain a little of the 'balance' DE have put in for a bad 1st ability, so that you'll need casts of his 3 in order to get any real damage out of it.
Combine that with his Defense Strip on his 4, and you have some decent damage.
-
6 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:
People tend to say this but without mentioned where they got this idea from, can you point to where this is said or written by them?
Yes, you can actually go to the Wayback Machine and look at the actual purchasing page for the Founders Packs and see the written statements by them of 'snag exclusive items that will never be available again'.
From there you can even navigate to the FAQ page of the time where it states that these items are exclusively for Warframe Founders and available for a limited time only.
It's also (apparently, because I wasn't one) on the confirmation e-mail sent to all purchasers to confirm what the exclusives are and that they will not be available to any other player, nor will they be put up for sale again.
This was re-iterated during the scandal of the Chinese release where the Chinese publisher temporarily offered the Lato Prime to that market for purchase, and all of those were immediately refunded and removed from those accounts because of this agreement.
Now that was a mess...
Anyway, we have their receipts, we have multiple interviews, DevStreams and even a standing rule by the Mods on the Forums that non-productive discussions about the topic get shut down to prevent the circular arguments. It's just that the newer players can only report what they've been told, they weren't around for the original statements by DE during DevStreams, or the actual Founders Pack era, and so on, like some of the older players ^^
-
7
-
-
13 hours ago, Graavarg said:
Also mathematically speaking you are wrong
Ahh, you again. I un-hid your comment because I knew it would be funny ^^
Listen, mathematically I'm correct. Why? Because that's how proportion versus quantity works.
If you make a ball pit and fill it with a thousand of each colour ball, red, blue, yellow and so on, there's an even proportion of each ball. The Green balls, however, are spiky and uncomfortable and covered in a bit of weird slime that you don't like. Then you jump into the ball pit. You will only ever be able to touch 1000 green balls no matter how many times you jump in. That's the cap on the quantity. So it seems like a lot, originally. Until the next step.
So, if you were to make a bigger ball pit, and fill it with 10,000 of each colour ball, you would have the exact same proportion of coloured balls, an even split of them, you'd have an exactly equivalent proportion of the green, spiky, slimy balls, too. But then when you jump in? You can, quite logically, touch up to 10x more of the green balls than before. Yes, you can also touch 10x more of the other colours, but what are you going to notice more?
Are we discussing all the nice people that OP has encountered? No. The completely normal people? No. The role-players? No. The completionists? No. The lesez fair non-grind players? No. We're discussing the surprising increase of unpleasant people that OP has encountered.
This is a direct result of there now being more not nice people in the game, numerically, even though the representative proportion hasn't really changed in the game.
This is why Quantity and Proportion are different.
Proportion means the percentage of total has not changed. Quantity means the actual numerical amount has changed, regardless of the proportion staying the same.
While the proportion of your games will still contain just as many nice players, more games overall, statistically, will actively contain an unpleasant player. Especially when there are shades of 'unpleasant' players, ranging from the simple un-mannered, all the way up to the outright toxic.
You're still muted, by the way, I won't see your response. It's just funny when somebody doesn't understand how 'more' equals 'more' when taken from a single-point sample, despite 'percentage of overall' being the same.
-
8 hours ago, SirZorba said:
There's already plenty of things DE has said and done that have done far more damage to trust than re-releasing founder items could ever hope to achieve.
Eh... All the things you've named are bad, but fix-able. They can still update those things to make the game better. Whether they do or not? Ehhhhhhh... No clue. That's just bad releases. Under-delivering on a promise isn't unheard of, and they did apologise with updates that improved about sixty other things that the players weren't expecting them to. It's not great, but it's something.
The Founders Pack is an actual legal agreement that DE signed and was paid for. Other companies get around this by specifically stating 'timed exclusives' or 'early access to', which means they build the aspect of these items being not permanently exclusive into the contract.
Why do they do this? Because it is, believe it or not, a legally binding contract that can be, and almost certainly will be by somebody, followed up with legal action for breaking. We've historically seen this with companies that offered 'exclusives' without stating that they were 'timed' and players have gotten full refunds of the money spent, plus legal costs, plus damages for breach of contract. It's not a cheap process, and it does more than hurt the reputation of a company with the players, it affects investment into the company, because a contract's a contract, a pre-purchase is legally no different from what any actual investor is doing.
So... Yeah, when the option is 'attract a few more players by re-releasing exclusive items when it's shown that 80% of players don't actually buy into the game' and the counterbalance is 'open the company up to legal action from the breach of contract that could tally all the way up to a class-action lawsuit from a large proportion of the contracted players because internet outrage is a thing, causing follow-up repercussions of investments being pulled and future investment being reduced', there's far more of a leaning on the side of not doing that.
See?
-
6
-
-
There is, I find, an over-arching problem with Ability Weapons in general that prevents them from being what they can and should be; namely, the best in class for their specific type of weapon, comparable only to other Ability weapons of the same class.
That problem is that DE appears to feel that the Ability part outweighs the Weapon part when it comes to scaling and functionality.
So each one of them is designed to do something based on the Warframe's Ability set or Theme at the expense of its functionality as a weapon.
Almost to extremes, every Ability weapon has terrible stats, or is worse than the equivalent best Prime weapon in its class. For example, despite multiple changes, Peacemaker technically deals less damage than the AkLex Prime, but the Ability part of it stands the Regulators in far greater stead, thanks to the scaling fire rate, crit and the instant accuracy achieved by waving your cursor in the direction of the enemy and clicking.
Others are limited not by damage, but by secondary stats, like Exalted Blade and Balefire Launchers. And yet more are limited by some functionality, such as Valkyr's Claws having such an abysmal combo animation, or Shadow Claws being specifically locked to Sevagoth's Shadow mode.
These limits are supposed to balance the power that the extra Ability functions give it. Valkyr's life steal, Excal's blade waves and so on.
The problem is that this whole philosophy leaves DE in a kind of grey zone.
They can't make these weapons powerful enough to only count as Abilities, and they can't let them be modded as powerfully as regular Weapons due to the Ability affects having even greater growth on them.
And it's a stupid place to be, really.
Since DE has embraced the 'mod them as weapons' part, OP is genuinely right that they need the same pass-over and quality-of-life that regular weapons have had. Allow them the same modding, the same Arcanes, the same conditional mods.
Rebalance the stats of each one of these to take advantage of the current modding system. Rebalance the Augments if necessary too, such as Chromatic Blade and Reactive Storm, to have the correct numerical effect on the Abilities after the change, if necessary.
Make the Stance mods on the Melee weapons add mod points like every other Stance does.
Commit to the Weapon side of things, and have the Ability side be what actually costs Energy to maintain.
If necessary up and rebalance the Abilities too, so that they actively interact with the weapons to make them stronger (not just 'press 2, your weapons now have +Crit and +Attack Speed), but functionality buffs to adapt damage or change the special features around.
The grey zone of Ability Weapons needs to be cleared up.
-
5
-
-
I'm getting such a chuckle out of watching the OP ask a question they know is going to be called out as the thinly-veiled 'I want the Founders' Pack items' thread it is, then get all defensive and angry at the people who do.
It's such an emblematic thread on the topic of these things, and I'm just humming the tune before a mod can come in and shut the discussion down, because it's non-productive, repetitive and doesn't even take the jokes that were inevitable.
-
14
-
-
It's really simple:
The proportion of people is still the same. There's still the same proportional amount of players who are anti-social, bad at the game, or just generally not nice to play with.
With the increase in the player pool we have to play with, though, there are numerically more of them so it's more likely you'll run into them. With Consoles adding on a huge amount of players overall, and all of those players having their microphones on by default... You get a lot of the weird ones. Especially when voice comms are not logged and able to be moderated like text comms.
It's the price we have to pay for Warframe becoming larger, more inclusive, and consistently competing with the other big games out there for player base.
-
2
-
-
31 minutes ago, quxier said:
I wonder what are their stance on 2-3 things per 2-3 days.
Quite clear, to be honest with you.
It took having to do a 'quality of life' update after having, in specific; The Old Blood (where Liches were not at all what they were billed to be), Empyrean (where the Railjack system was the smallest fraction of what they were promised to be), and then Scarlet Spear (where squad-link didn't function, so they tried their best, but ultimately resulted in a poorly organised mess and an undeserved Limbo nerf).
In apology for these three, DE's Quality of Life update was the biggest one they'd yet done and included... Reducing the 24 hours timer for Forma to 23 hours.
This was considered to be the most dramatically impactful change to the crafting system that DE had done. Because it meant that players wouldn't, over time, lose out on a day of Forma crafting.
DE's biggest change to the idea of 2-3 things per 2-3 days, and they were very proud of it at the time, was to ensure that players could craft the same thing once per day more reliably.
-
3
-
-
So this one keeps coming back and it misses the fundamental point about build times that's never, ever going to change in Warframe:
While DE do a lot of things for convenience, when they have something to apologise for (like a succession of bad content launches), they will not compromise on the over-arching goal of all of their content. This over-arching goal is simply to keep players coming back day after day, week after week, month after month.
Maybe not for long gaming sessions, maybe for only twenty minutes each time, but every day, every week, every month. Players must return to the game.
No other goal is as important to DE.
Why? Because it's a proven fact that more players will pay for the game if they are exposed to the game for longer.
Doesn't just mean Forma. Doesn't just mean skipping builds. Doesn't just mean Boosters.
It's literally everything DE do, and they're very good at it.
Walking that fine line between 'grind is easy enough to do' and 'grind takes so long I should buy it', or the equally fine line between 'grind is too difficult to do, so I'll quit' and 'grind is too difficult to do, but I want the rewards so I'll buy them'.
If any player wants to see the reason for any single decision that DE make, you have to phrase it in that way: How are they trying to keep players in the game over the course of months?
And that's where you're going to find the answers.
Crafting 100 Ciphers at a time? Sure. They'll do that.
Crafting more than one Forma at a time? Nah, no chance.
-
1
-
-
4 hours ago, asianguy262001 said:
prime example, frame-fighter
I'd be with you, except this was a deliberate side-project like Wyrmius and Flappy Zephyr. Frame fighter is not a good example of un-polished game modes, because it's not a game mode ^^
That's not to say that there aren't actual examples, just that Frame Fighter is a bad example.
-
6 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:
despite Kullervo being one of my favourites, I don't think I'll bother with this too much, since his 4 is only useful in defensive situations and you don't really need to move it around.
Just watch, my friend, this will become a thing.
Storm of Ukko, with his damage-link, and the fact that moving it extends the Duration... This will be an infinite damage loop thing in no time.
-
For meme potential... Hmmm...
Okay, Meme Single Player Damage; Divine Retribution with Primer and Bleed nukes. Max-Range this, no worries about the actual Strength for the Augment effect; Prime everything at once with even a single enemy hit, then hit one enemy with a high Bleed proc from melee to burst everything like popcorn.
Meme Team Damage; Guardian Armour with a squad of 4 Chroma players. Because, get this, the Vex buffs stack when you're in range of each other. Prepare for that perma-stacked 4x Vex buffs squad to spam all the damage ^^
(Also... it says that you take health damage from 'allies', not 'players', so is this one of those cases where Chroma can tank for the Lures in Eidolon hunting and actually get the full Vex buff out of it? Definite potential there.)
For the most easy-to-predict meme; Parasitic Vitality with a Nidus and Inaros paired up to push Inaros' new rework to silly values. His updated 4 has damage that scales off his Health value, so if this 1200% stacks on more damage, we could get a fun meme-cast out of that one ^^
What else... Hmmm...
Ooh, something I want to try; Nyx Mind control with Loki's Damage Decoy. Not only are you generating an invincible enemy that can attack with boosted damage, you're making that unit into the single highest-aggro thing around and it radially spreads Status on top of the base effects. So throw on Assimilate and drop Chaos so that you don't accidentally die to radial effects, add in that you can defense-strip targets around you... And you'll have a real minion wrangler there.
-
1
-
-
Okay, ignoring this entire debate, I'm going to point out 'no'.
Why not? Because DE rebalanced Melee Range with the last Melee update. They even said on the DevStream where they went over the changes that they debated making Spring Loaded Blade not stack with Reach/Primed Reach.
Range is incredibly strong on melee, especially for combo building. That's why DE upped the base range of every weapon, measured it in actual units, and then had the Range mods add flat +X range, instead of percentages. So they could make sure they then balanced any melee weapon's base range around its potential range.
They aren't going to add any more Melee Range mods unless they're either conditional, or don't stack with the current ones. Or both.
-
5 hours ago, Aruquae said:
They can launch more content that pushes you to aim at specific weak points in a game mode (or maybe against certain enemies).
Fun fact: They can't. Or, rather, they won't.
Why not? Because of an update a long time ago called 'The Sword Alone'. In this update they committed to making sure that a player can complete any content in the game with only a Melee weapon equipped.
This is why enemies that already have clear weak-point optimisation in the way you're talking about (for example; Grineer Nox units that have a headshot weakpoint and massive DR on the rest of their body) die to Melee weapons just as fast as any other heavily-armoured enemy unit.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, Naroxas44 said:
To be fair, they could just do regular progress syncs in every mission like they do for Duviri Experience (decree collection), prime parts, and all other open world missions and it would avoid this situation entirely.
There is that. And it's actually exactly what Host Migration uses.
How else do you think it works? It tracks the progress that the Host has fed back to the Server and tries to instance your new game with your new host (maybe you, maybe one of the others) at the most recent check it's done.
The only reason that you end up back in your Orbiter is that it can't re-instance your mission. It will try everything, including putting you into your own Solo instance, but if it can't verify you from the last state of the Host, then it can't say you aren't cheating. (Warframe had about a year of known code-injection cheats that used the host disconnect as a trigger to place things into their inventory that had 'dropped' in the mission.)
Basically, everything that you're asking for is actually how Host Migration attempts to work.
The limitations are, as I stated, the internet connection of the player, and the need to prevent cheating. And remember, even if you have fast internet and have a look at your speed tests online, that doesn't mean that you aren't getting routed to a poor connection to the Host, or to Warframe's servers if you're the Host. So it can even be out of both the players' and DE's hands.
-
7 hours ago, Sidiax said:
Okay ? Your post serves no purpose other than to needlessly patronize. As far as I'm aware, you don't know DE's priority list either. In fact, none of us do, which is exactly why I made this thread - remind people of a highly requested feature that hasn't been mentioned by DE recently.
Your post wasn't clear that you knew why DE hadn't done this yet.
Your post didn't point out that DE have already acknowledged this idea and are committed to doing it.
Your post merely stated that 'it's time'.
Is it?
If you're going to make statements like that without also stating that you are aware of the relevant counter-points, then the relevant counter-points are going to be given to you.
Usually in a patronising manner, because without any context it's assumed that you could use a little of that.
-
I find this whole discussion really strange.
I've taken Grendel to multi-hour survivals on Steel Path and even with level 600+ enemies I find it's harder to keep enemies in Grendel's stomach than anything else. Just rolling around, jumping, bumping and so on, especially after the enemies are armour stripped and primed with Viral, just vibing as Grendel with a full stomach kills the meals-on-wheels in really short order.
While it is a bit odd that they took the actual scaling damage off some of his kit, it really doesn't seem to have changed his actual kills-per-minute, thanks to that armour strip he's got, the easy CC and priming, the heals that keep him tanky, and the option to deal some rather hefty damage if you swallow the right enemies.
A high Strength Grendel seems to be even more difficult to keep his stomach full, especially if you go somewhere like Mot which has shield-based enemies as well as the armoured ones, since they just take direct Health damage from his Toxin without needing to strip. So 10 viral stacks, into the stomach, then they're gone before I even notice and I have to hit 1 again.
I mean...
Sure you can't hit the absurdist overkill damage you used to.
But that's like arguing Everest is taller than K2. Yes, you're factually right, but it doesn't matter, because you're not going to climb either without years of prep.
-
So, I get that it's an asked for feature (Forum Bingo, woo!) but...
Why is it now time?
I mean... think about why it hasn't been done so far: There's this big list of priorities that DE has. At the top of the list are things like 'new content' and 'fixing broken stuff', then further down are things like 'fixing things that aren't broken, but are bad' and 'prepare for TennoCon'.
Then all the way down at the bottom of the list of priorities is 'make Ember good again' and 'allow Prime Weapons to use non-Prime skins'.
Has that priority list actually changed at all?
How do you know it has?
Because as far as I've seen, it really hasn't.
DE have outright said they want to do this. The fact that they haven't is just a matter of 'X is more important to them than Y'.
So my advice is just this: Sit tight. They'll get around to it. Probably way later than you want them to. And be surprised and happy when they do it.
-
4 hours ago, JohnMorte said:
i feel this attitude is incredibly elitist.
My friend, my dear fellow player, I'm condescending, not elitist ^^ /s
That said, no, what I was talking about is literally what happens.
The Forums are populated by a fairly average spread of people. However. It's a proven and well documented fact that the people that get the most attention in any situation are the ones who are either loud or stupid. The loud, naturally, because they crave the most attention. The stupid because they don't have the ability to check things for themselves in some way, whether that's reading up, asking another player, or just experiencing it for themselves, and so they complain about it instead (which is what makes them stupid, because somebody that doesn't do any of those things, but then doesn't come to complain about it is self-aware enough to not be stupid).
It's not elitist, it's an observation of fact. There's been literal scientific studies of this function for the last thirty or forty years of documented sociology.
The people that get the most attention are the loud and the stupid, which means that the attention is not being given to the people that are neither of those things.
And, to re-iterate, that's not just Warframe. That's life. That's reality.
And to be even more clear, I'm one of the loud people, you can tell because you're paying attention to me after I made a broad and sweeping statement that didn't connect to the current discussion (which is also a little stupid, but I own that too).
You can try to wrangle your comment around to get me to discuss the function of players 'playing for reward' versus 'for the playing', and it's not going to happen. That's not what I'm talking about, that's not the discussion I'm having.
I replied to an old, old friend that I haven't seen in years, commenting on the problems of having a broad and accurate representation of the gaming world coming to Warframe rather than the historical narrow band of minority gamers we had before.
Tangential to the thread, yes.
Part of the other argument that's going on? No.
Going to discuss that ridiculous spiral of not-getting-anywhere? Nope.
What I will say is this: When the game mode is literally built so that the only limitations put on the player are for optimisation of their own personal experience, then that's the textbook opposite of 'forcing' a player to do something. This is what's called 'the carrot and stick' method, where DE are dangling a goal (carrot) ahead of players on the end of a mission (stick) and you can progress towards that goal as fast as you like, all depending on how hungry you are for the goal.
If the players want to play this content with absolutely none of the modifiers on it, they can. And they will get rewards. They can play it as many times as they like to get all of the rewards, because the drop table is limited to five items. However, if they put in the extra work. place the limitations on themselves, they can guarantee the rewards in one run. Carrot. Stick. Optimisation.
The people that are coming to the Forum and saying that this is 'forcing' players, by the definition of having not checked this out for themselves, done the reading to see what the situation is, or just asked another person who knows better, are being stupid. And also loud by proxy.
Forget rewards, forget playing for playing, look at the context of the original post and you can clearly see that OP is being stupid.
You're not being stupid, because you're taking the discussion that can and will happen around the topic of playing for rewards versus playing for playing, and continuing it.
That's not stupid. Well, maybe a little, because it's also a tangent from the original point and not something I'm engaging in.
-
1
-
-
As far as I'm aware, the change for Discharge so that it didn't proc the Electrified Status was so that DE could control the damage through Warframe Modding instead of through regular damage modding. For example the Status proc is increased by the amount of Electric Damage that's present on the weapon that inflicted it, right? We have actually seen an interaction that got nerfed where using Electric damage from an Ability actually causes the base damage to be multi-dipped on by Strength mods. Especially when used in groups. Heck, my girl Zephyr just got her Tornado nerfed because of the interaction it had with Electric status...
There are some interactions, and definitely were at the time, with the instant radial Electrical damage that were exceptionally strong, and there are some now that are even stronger. Especially with the Status triggers we have now.
So having Discharge behave exactly like the Electric Status Proc, but not actually be that proc, was both a safe call for its actual final damage, and a necessary one to prevent some of the interactions that it could have with our other functions we have in the game.
-
They can, and do. I have seen a half dozen go down because of action from either Digital Extremes, or their investors (Tencent).
Problem is they just pop right back up again under a new top-level domain.
-
3
-
Caliban is amazing but...Razor Gyre!!!?
in Warframes
Posted
First: You are going to be spending that energy anyway to upkeep the abilities. In point of order, because the activation of his 1 would (under the proposed change) pause the Duration on his 3, you are then extending the up-time on the 3 cast for the cost of the drain on top of the added benefits for what you get as a combo, meaning you need to cast his 3 less frequently. We've seen that duration pausing works on frames, courtesy of Xaku, even if you have to burst-cast to achieve that. Adding drain for a direct damage function is kind of the logical next step.
Second: DE almost never do what you've just suggested instead. Slapping on some extra damage is incredibly rare, as a change, even if some extra Status is more common. The last time they just did a +Damage option was the change to Zephyr's Dive Bomb three or four years ago, where they not only upped the base damage from 500 to 3500, they also improved Target Fixation to make it more functional and allow Zephyr to scale that damage infinitely.
However, something DE have done, quite a few times, is make abilities have those things conditionally. So the base functions are weak. The combo functions are strong.
For example, one of the not-so-explored functions of Razor Gyre is that it charges up. With the only limit being your energy cost per second going up by 2 energy for every 100 damage charge into the ability.
If this function is multiplied by 8x as well without affecting the cost, you're looking at a few seconds charge creating an ability that deals Bleed ticks an average of 1.6 times per second, that tick for 10k each.
On top of that you add Sentient Wrath for the base damage multiplier, and you can even have pre-cast his 4 to create an area of defense removal that enemies funnel into and then take the full damage from the base without damage reduction. The average un-armoured Steel Path Heavy Gunner (average being around level 128) would die in seconds from just the base damage hits at that point, if you add the Bleeds to that you reduce the time even further.
Look at something like Gara.
Terrible first ability, a mild damage-dealing and good damage-reducing 3, and a defensive 4 that can get torn apart easily. Combine their casts, though, and you have infinite damage. You literally have infinite damage if you maintain the cast. It's definitely slower to build up than the proposed changes to Caliban's 1 to combo it with his 3, but...
Yeah, it's the kind of thing DE likes to do. The kind of thing they've done in the past.
So...
With that in mind, the combo idea seems to have a lot more desirability and build potential.
Imagine using the new Companions to spread Viral for you, instantly increasing the damage taken by 100%, up to 350% on top of the damage multiplier from Sentient Wrath, giving you near instant death of the average Steel Path enemies, and reasonable scaling up into the multi-hundred level range.
And an energy drain of 14-20 per second is harsh, but considering that's before you add Efficiency to reduce the cost? And before you add functions that force-drop Orbs for playing with Equilibrium and all the other options on top... it's just negligible.
I don't see DE just doing a slap-damage-on-it fix.
I can see them doing a combo.