Birdframe_Prime

I'm glad you're taking the feedback better than a huge portion of the player base does when they post threads here. For the most part, you're completely entitled to the opinions you hold and I can see why you're reaching the conclusions you have. There is one thing to point to, though; There was a massive discussion around this when DE were pitching the idea that players actually could skip the quests in order to get to the newer content. The decision by the fanbase and by DE agreeing with them was this; The quests in Warframe are a story worth playing, adding meaningful context and explanation for the situations we're in. They lead to far less confusion about the game world, and more informed discussions in game and out of game here on the Forums, and for many they are genuinely emotional moments. While there is one specific quest that does lock players in while they complete it (and there are the odd threads here and there protesting that they cannot actually beat the quest, despite being handed one of the best weapons in the game and all of the mechanics to do so... which is sad for those players), but outside of that, progressing the game is done at the players' own pace due to the specific markers given by the Devs. My point earlier about 'the Devs have done quite a bit to make progression clear' is pretty much emblemised here: The paths linking mission nodes, the Junctions listing tasks, the 'what to do next' box in your UI whenever you're in the Orbiter or in the Navigation... it's all designed to try and get players through to what DE is advertising. Heck they just did an update that features an adjustment to new player progression, putting Duviri back a few locations so players don't get confused about which rules the game is following. Basically, DE feel it really would hurt. And I agree. The quests in Warframe are important to feeling like you're actually connected to Warframe.

I gotta be honest man, from the list of things you've described, the only major point that isn't the fault of the players is the lack of direction. The 'where do I go next' part. DE have tried, by making the planets have an actual path for you to follow, having a 'do this next' box on your UI at all times when in the Orbiter... but they can't seem to actually get something that will give players a more... driven start. But everything else? I mean, dude, you had two of them not even finish the opening quest, which is how it shows you the basic features of the game and how to play through some of the most basic missions? That's on them. The opening quest of any grinding-based game is going to do much the same thing. Show you the combat, send you on a couple of starter missions, and unlock the different functions you have as a player to progress with. Hell even games like Doom Eternal have a starter mission before you get access to all the different upgrade paths. And so not finishing that? That's on your friends. It's not on you, and it's not on Warframe. I know you don't want to think of it that way, because you think it's a bad thing, you're not seeing it as 'there is a fundamental difference in how my friends want to play and what this game is offering' and taking that as a perfectly normal part of gaming life. I don't play several types of game, like racing, or versus fighters. I like adventure games that have some story to discover, I like spectacle fighters, I like single player or co-op driven action games. And that's also got its preferences. I like Warframe, but I didn't get on with Destiny 2 when I tried it. I like Elden Ring, but I definitely didn't get on with Sekiro. The way that any two games can play, no matter how similar, is important too. And your friends just didn't like Warframe the way you do. That's a little disheartening, sure, but you've got to live with that. There is feedback here, but you can't frame it on the basis of five players you know quitting, not when the reasons for not just the first two, but the second two of them quitting was 'they couldn't do the cool things that an experienced player does immediately, and have to start from the same place everyone else does'. Two quit because they couldn't be bothered with the starter quest, two quit because you couldn't give them things that would make them feel cooler about starting new games. And the last one quits because there's grind in a grind game... That isn't your fault, that isn't the game's fault. That's on them, legitimately, and it's okay that it's on them. Your friends don't like the game you like, not when they can't immediately do what you do, what you've spent years building up to do. That's okay. It's a little entitled on some of their part, but it's still a perfectly normal way to behave. They tried Warframe with you, and didn't like Warframe. That's about it. Can the game improve? Sure. And it needs to. What the game can't really do is have an instant tutorial so that new players are immediately catapulted into combat readiness with all the mods, weapons and warframes that an experienced person has. What the game can't do is magically not require you to go out and grind for resources to build things. What the game can't do is remove the progression path for players, because then they'll have even less direction after the starter quest. The premise for this thread, the quitting of five new players... is genuinely obscuring the actual feedback that can be given.

Inb4 thread lock... Coming here does not help with chat bans or support tickets. Besides, how does a chat ban interfere with your actual gaming?

Wow, tell me how limited your game history is without telling me... Saryn. Nezha. Zephyr. Inaros. Excalibur. Loki. Nekros. Rhino. Wukong. Volt. I mean, sure, you weren't around for a few of those, so that's fair. You wouldn't remember Rhino's rework, or Volts, that made them both have functions that are relevant to this day. Excal's gave him Exalted Blade, and Saryn... Saryn is a meta in and of herself in almost every single era. And the most successful rework in the game's history is Wukong. Literally made him the most used frame ever since. Even with his recent nerfs, he's only just been out-used statistically, barely. In terms of 'light' reworks, you need only look at Inaros and Loki. None of their actual functions were changed, just added to. Buffing those frames in basic ways. So Inaros fans can now actually use his abilities rather than just health-tanking and can enjoy pressing more than 1 button, and Loki fans can now fluidly use Switch Teleport and his Decoy is finally, finally functional again (plus has an augment that makes it even more fun). I mean... It's not hard to find successful reworks in Warframe. There have been a lot. Some were nerfs, yes, but you're even wrong about some of the ones you mentioned. 'Nobody actually plays Grendel himself' is a great statement if it wasn't for DE's released usage stats showing that in the months since his rework he jumped up in usage by a significant amount (where a single percentage point means tens of thousands of players across all MR ranks), and his Prime was so popular that one month of it existing outperformed the usage of frames that have been in use for the entire year. Statistics are fun ^^ What I'm saying is something that you literally cannot dispute; New things in Warframe, like new frames and new mechanics, new game modes or new weapons and mods, those are really debatable in terms of whether they're good or not. Warframes either come in over-tuned and have to be nerfed, or under-tuned and need buffing, or they come in broken and need three months of patches to even make them functional. Changes, though... Changes to existing things have been almost universally net positive. Even if you say they've 'done nothing' they are functional buffs. That's a fact with Ember, with Loki, with Mag... Also Mag and Frost aren't one-button. They're two buttons, and those are two very good buttons on each of them. Let me put it this way; DE said that Nyx is getting a 'light' rework. And the example of a 'light' rework is Loki. All they did for him is make Switch Teleport better and bring the functions of Decoy up to current game standards, along with giving it a cool Augment, because Radial Disarm plus Invisibility are still meta for modes like the Steel Path Circuit. So, if all DE did was give Nyx something like... more reliable and functional aiming on her Psychic Bolts, maybe made it a pure cone-of-effect so there was no longer a cap on the enemies she could strip, and made... let's see... Absorb's energy usage and scaling actually something relevant at all levels... That would be a buff, right? It wouldn't change anything about how you used Nyx, but it would be a buff. Maybe they could adjust Assimilate so you can move around better with it, too. Also a buff, but less than something else they could do. Or maybe they could adjust Chaos Sphere to make it more consistent in the job of 'applying Chaos in a radius over a duration instead of in bursts'. That would also be a small buff. Would you actually complain about that? That would be in the realms of a 'light' rework, according to DE. Or, something that's more extensive, but also in the realms of a 'light' rework is Inaros. With him they re-distributed the functions he has, buffed the most annoying functions, and then added new functions on top. So now he doesn't absorb health from enemies by standing over them and feasting, he does it while in Sandstorm, which is now faster and has the option to consistently apply status, also dragging enemies to a specific point for attacking after ending. His Scarab Swarm is an incredibly reliable armour reduction, even a full strip if you have Shards on, he has minions, better Health tanking, and even Status immunity, plus his Augments were looked over to make them more applicable to the new ability spread. So what if that was what DE did to Nyx? Shifting the functions around to make them easier to use and then giving her bonus ones to fill in the gaps left? Would you actually complain about that? Because I'm willing to think that you wouldn't. The only possible complaint you'd have would be 'they didn't do more', which is a comparatively stupid comment born of the same mind that said 'Ember's rework did nothing'. Especially when this is described as a 'light' rework, not a 'full' rework. Just put on your big gamer pants and stop doom-saying. A frame is finally getting some attention that the community agrees needs to be given.

If you actually paid attention to what DE does with 'light reworks' then you would be positive. Besides, DE are desperately wanting this to update to be well received, they aren't going to do anything demonstrably controversial. It will absolutely be a buff to her mechanics.

So, this is the concept art: If you look carefully, the actual Landing craft (our default Liset) is docked in the veeeeerrrrry front-most tip of the Orbiter. When you reach the Drifter camp on Earth, you can see the white area that's along the top, going back and gripping that central chamber which we presume is where the main Transference chair is. The Lander floats above its usual docking space, and that's where we get the overall scale of the ship from. The personal quarters and the Helminth room are also in this white area in the two areas on the side. At the back are obviously the engines, that's no great mystery, but there's this large area beneath the Lander and the white over-ship that extends under until you reach the central chamber. That area is presumed to be the storage space for our Arsenal. What's really interesting is that the Orbiter was designed as a Stealth ship, but it features a lot of the structural points that look similar to the elements we have on the Railjack. So we don't know whether this is going to come into play more, or less, as time goes on.

Shame, my friend... because DE were publicly on DevStream and straight up said they would rather have players farm duplicates than give them this option. When they say 'never say never' that's usually for things they haven't directly said they don't want to do.

As mentioned, my friend, it sadly is good design. Just not entirely for us. To their credit, DE actually do a lot for us, the players, in how they actually monetise the game. DE's monetisation is incredibly fair compared to other games out there on the market. Everything in the game is available through playing the game. The only things that aren't are time-skips for the free stuff, and cosmetics that are one-time-only purchases. Most importantly DE's tiering of the Platinum packs uses the 'give them extra' strategy, instead of the 'next pack up' strategy. What's amazing is how well they walk that line between encouraging players to pay and allowing players to just play. It is a stunning piece of design, and I've been watching it self-sustain with a frightening level of competence since 2013. See?

Oh, no, not closing my mind to the possibilities. I'm suggesting that you look at other possibilities than ones that were already tried and removed from the game. For example, DE are not against rewarding players for more grind. There is already a big difference between an MR30 and MR8 in terms of access and convenience to the game. From starting Mod Points (I'm LR4 which gives me so many mod points that I actually have bonus ones for Kuva/Tenet weapons when levelling them up, so after four Forma the weapon has a starting 34 Mod points, or 68 with a Catalyst, for the build), to Standing caps, to customisation Loadout Slots... Heck, we even get multiplied login rewards for non-milestone days. There is a lot to benefit somebody for the grind they put in. And even in mission, if you run an endless-mode Fissure Mission, you actually get more rewards as you go on, multiplying resources, credits, drop chance, affinity and even giving fresh Relics every 5 rounds. However. What DE are against is having their Warframe modding be variable. Weapon modding? Sure. I can see there being adjustments that would give us something there. That's a possibility, because they gave us random-roll mods back specifically for weapons, since damage is just damage. Not Warframe modding, because that's a policy that has actually stood the test of 10 years. (I'll re-iterate that, they haven't changed their mind on that for ten entire years, nearly eleven.) So yeah. There are possibilities. You just can't have the specific things that they've already changed out and don't want in the game.

Lighting: There are effects. There are also plenty of settings to turn down those effects or even turn them up to your own preferences. Knock-downs: You literally have the prevention of knock-downs built into the base movement functions (dodge roll). Outside of that there's basic tactics to avoid knock-down such as not walking into range of enemies that can knock you down, or rolling out of grappling hooks. The only one that you need to actually mod for is the one we do to ourselves with our own radial weapons. That last one being literally implemented to make it annoying to use those weapons without either using a mod or an ability to counter them. So you won't get rid of those until some other limiting factor comes into being (DE have been threatening the return of self-damage for years now). And lastly... Standing caps and build timers: This is where your goal as a player, and DE's goal as a business will always conflict. DE want you, the player, to play every single day. Not for long sessions, not entirely, just every day. Coming back again and again, week on week, month on month. They don't care if that's just for five minutes to set off another item in the Foundry, or whether that's to play an hour of high level content, or if it's to take a friend through a few star chart nodes. The point of it is regular daily play. Why? Because over the last 11 years (count that again, that's eleven years, plenty of time to prove a system) it's been shown that the most profitable model for DE is getting players to come back like that. It means that they can make their monetisation system work. Now, what do I mean by 'make it work'? I mean that the players that are going to pay for the game, pay for Plat, are at a massively increased chance of doing that if they play regularly, if they play every day. And once those players have Platinum in their accounts, what's the next step? It's how to get them to pay for Plat again at the quickest point. That's why there's Trading for Plat. So that players who do not want to pay for the game will play the game and Trade the Plat away from the paying players. The non-paying players then use it, spend it, it's gone. When the Plat is no longer in the accounts of the paying players, those players are more likely to go back and buy more Plat, and so the cycle repeats. But Birdframe, I hear you about to try and complain, what does that have to do with standing caps? It forces players that want to have the things behind Standing systems to come back again tomorrow. All of these tactics are made to push that idea, of coming back regularly, so that paying players are more likely to pay, and then trading players are more likely to trade. It's entirely built to reduce the intervals between players that will pay for the game buying Plat, by having players that won't pay drain the accounts of the paying players. Every time you feel like DE wants you to pay for something instead of playing the game, but you don't buy, somebody else is tempted to buy. Build timers, standing caps, the weekly Nightwave, the weekly Archons, the three month cycles between new Frames and new Primes and new update news... All of it to funnel players into coming back again and again and again, for little gaming sessions every day, where if they miss a day, that's a whole stack of Standing they didn't get... And is that against what we want as players? Yes. Is that actually quite a stunning example of anti-consumer design hidden behind a veil of being legitimately the current fairest monetisation system in the Live Service industry? Definitely. But that's definitely not going to change any time soon. We got lucky that DE changed their minds about the Heirlooms and started doing fairer monetisation of those. Because if their sponsors had their way, the Mag and Frost Heirlooms would have been only the start, and your standing caps and build timers would have been the absolute least problematic thing you'd encounter. Sorry to say, this one? This one you'll just have to deal with.

I'm in the Preludes and have given feedback. Something I can say here is that all of the players are aware of the problems with the combat, however while the animations and tracking are currently lacking, the actual combat is considered fun by the large majority. The core of the combat is functional and it's the clean-up and polish of tracking and animations that needs to be done. The only major addition that needs to be implemented is updating from their current Softlock combat to have the option for a Hardlock system. People aren't noticing that there's even a Softlock system when watching, where you actually do lock on to enemies you're fighting and your dodge and movement are centered on them. It's really not apparent in the demos and videos people see, and so there definitely needs to be that extra option to help people want to get into the game. Thinking of watchers, though, it really is amazing how many people are coming out of the woodwork and quoting Asmon... I mean, it's not like that's a video that DE won't have seen, it's one of the more recognised content creators in the gaming space reacting to the demo at TennoCon. They've definitely shared that around the office. So... while the feedback is noted, and it's a point in the favour that people are agreeing with it... This thread really has already been said in a much more noticeable way in both the general internet space and on dedicated feedback reporting of the Preludes itself.

None yet. They're probably still doing the step down from TennoCon as it is, and getting back into the work schedule. Expect any update on the things they actually said to be probably a week or more to be clarified.

If you're of the mind that the tactic that is literally made to extend Grind in a free-to-play game, and encourages players to play in groups in a game billed as a Co-op game, should in some way refund costs or guarantee more results... You aren't aware of what the grind in a free-to-play game is actually for. It's not for the player, it's for the game. The fine line of 'enough reward to keep players in the game' versus 'enough grind to encourage paying' is something DE has walked for years. Your pity system for a bunch of Bronze Tier rewards is called Trading. Trade junk for multiple small amounts of Plat and trade the accumulated Plat for the thing you want.

With respect, Nyx is not bad. However, my friend, this thread of yours is a lot of words to say that you don't want change. That you think the changes will be bad. That you are upset that they are going to try changing the thing you like. And that? That's never going to work. DE will update and change literally everything over time. Historically when they implement new things, there's a definite degree of hit-or-miss with how they implement it. Some things come in too strong and have to be nerfed, some things come in too weak and are abandoned by the player base until they're updated, and some things come in functionally broken and DE spend three months scrambling to get it to work properly in the first place. Changes, however... Changes and updates have almost universally been net positive to the thing they change. For example, Loki got a 'light rework' to his kit. Do you know what it changed about how you play and use Loki? Nothing. Do you know what it did for him? Improved the things that players were calling to be improved. Could it have been improved more? Sure. But this was a 'light rework' and didn't change much. Just gave him a way more consistent Decoy, and a way more functional Switch Teleport. Also gave him a better Augment for Decoy, and that was certainly fun. Consider this to be the base-line for what DE consider a 'light rework'. Things they could do for Nyx on the same level; Have the targeting and enemy capacity of her 2 greatly increased, so that it competes with a similar ability like Tharros Strike, or increasing the effects of the ability so that the limited enemy cap is balanced by a more desired function (like damage boosting, removal of Overguard or similar). Have Absorb's cost and scaling tweaked to make it more effective to use at all levels. Switch up her Augments a little so that Chaos Sphere is more effective, or Assimilate allows more free movement, or change Mind Freak so that it doesn't overlap with the existing damage multiplier that's now part of her base kit and instead offers something more significant like... allow multiple mind controlled enemies. None of these changes would actually change how you play Nyx and enjoy the things you do. You'd just be able to do them better. And there's probably a few more that somebody like Pablo can think of beyond these. New things in Warframe? Variable results. Change in Warframe is almost always a positive. Embrace it ^^

Allow me. While the pattern of 'two males, two females' has not been broken since the start of the Prime releases, the pattern dictated by their release order has been disrupted 9 times out of the 43 Primes we have, making it nearly a 1-in-5 occurrence. With the oldest case being 2013 and the most recent case being 2023. Here's a break-down of that: So, with Sevagoth jumping the queue? Ground-breaking for messing with the 2 male and 2 female pattern, buuuut... DE aren't afraid of breaking what we perceive as patterns in their releases.