No More New Gear, Revamp System!

[Arlayn]

Time to make a massive blow... and I am going to bring up two people that gave me wonderful ideas.

Ruriko from https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/99306-suggestion-weapon-feature-augmentation/

and Gregio from https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/99889-proper-martial-arts-introduction/

Both gave me some interesting ideas!

 

No more new gear! Instead total revamp of the system of what we have now in the weapons.

 

Melee system whole new revamp! What if there was a way to create our own personal combat styles? As in take existing animations, maybe some new ones and combine them together to make slow, or fast combos? Pick what we want for our charge attack as well. Customize our style in melee combat. Each movement and style added for each part of the combo adds damage, knockdown, special effects, etc.

 

Each weapon is limited to a certain set, and the sets increase with more moves as you go up in mastery rank. So if your Mastery rank 9 you would have some pretty wicked sick moves. (some sets may be identical to sets found with other weapons)

 

Also block can be changed out with either block bullets, or melee counter attack, or simply block melee... even go as far as if your using block up close to an enemy when they shoot you with a gun you disarm them. Counter attacks could be simply a high damage attack, fast low damage attack, knock back(or throw), knock down, or stun.

 

------------------------------

Now for guns...

As mentioned by Ruriko weapon augmentations, and if you have seen his topic you know where I stand on this... Highly advanced customizations in the skin section. Similar to changing out heads, or adding badges the options to add these will appear in skin section with their own stat bonuses, and cons... all augmentations do both good, and bad for a gun due to design.

 

But this can be taken further. No one gun has to be stuck as is. Bigger magazines can be added to a gun giving it noticeable features, Hek could have a shorter barrel for more personal up close damage, but shorter range. Guns could have a change out on ammo from ammo that penetrates and explodes from the inside, Ammo that punctures, ammo that specializes on different enemies... Like a bullet that enters unarmored enemies like infested and shatters inside of them doing long term damage as they move, and attack. Special bullets that decrease damage of enemies that are hit by it.

 

Maybe even push it further by making swivel an addon function for all rifles. It would work in place of the idea of sticking to walls. Get close to the edge of a wall stick your gun out just enough while aiming and then when you try to turn while aiming instead of your whole body turning you will do a first person view of the barrel that is swiveling and be able to swivel it around corners to take down enemies. When you return to normal view your rifle returns to default position.

 

Bows could get special addons like a unique glove the Tenno wears in order to shoot more then one arrow, or more then two if you have multi shot on.

 

Special aiming tools to add to any gun in the game to actually give a scope view instead of just a zoom function with the usual crosshairs. Possibly an add on scope that when you aim at an enemy shows you the exact coordinates of an enemy on the map that is a far off during a defense mission like the ones at Kiliken so you can use your mic to tell your teammates where the enemy is on the map (If DE adds a grid map with numbers and stuff.)

 

Special scopes on guns to allow thermal vision(which would also include foot prints on the ground which can be picked up by the thermal imaging just in case you don't have enemy radar and want to try sneaking up on enemies), night vision, and X-Ray vision(to see through walls). Maybe even a sonar vision for those who don't have Banshee, or can't get one to join their squad.

 

---------------------------

Now your wondering... wouldn't this render most mods useless? Well... do you like how some of the mods take up space that you could be filling out with a better mod?

 

Wouldn't this render Forma useless? It could depending... on certain details it could, but for the most part most weapons even without forma, and special augment bonuses would need some forming in order to fulfill all needs.

[EclecticDragon]

To be honest both of these ideas wouldn't really solve the underlying issues with warframe. Such as enemies being sort of boring to deal with, and weapon balance. and would just make the system more convoluted then it needs to be.

And by the way, saying they should stop making weapons shows how little you know of how games are made.

[Virtus_Dei_Est]

the ammount of work this could bring for the devs is like making a totally new game, IMO they should fix the stablished game mechanics, not adding new one, still not yet...

[Arlayn]

To be honest both of these ideas wouldn't really solve the underlying issues with warframe. Such as enemies being sort of boring to deal with, and weapon balance. and would just make the system more convoluted then it needs to be.

And by the way, saying they should stop making weapons shows how little you know of how games are made.

I already threw like a thousand of those ideas out go scroll down or look up my name on the fan concepts if you want to see all my ideas dealing with how to handle enemies... No this is dealing with the issue of more weapons coming out...

 

Also I know a lot of how games are made... I use to run my own Never WinterNights server I know exactly what brings people in... I have played games since the first NES, and Gameboy all the way up to the newest gen systems... I have gone over the strengths of publishers, and indies... I have run across and followed some of the best Indie companies around like TaleWorlds.... More weapons is only a temporary hold... What needs to be done is more polishing...

[Arlayn]

the ammount of work this could bring for the devs is like making a totally new game, IMO they should fix the stablished game mechanics, not adding new one, still not yet...

Follow DE abit longer... they are famous for taking an entire system and breaking it... you know the Mod system was broken down and rebuilt twice right? They also mentioned some other things they were going to break and revamp as well... Almost everything in the game is a placeholder...

[ValhaHazred]

Ugh, not this S#&$ again.

 

No more new gear! Instead total revamp of the system of what we have now in the weapons.

The people who design the weapons need jobs too. They are a different team from the systems bunch. Do you want them siting around twiddling their thumbs?

 

Melee system whole new revamp! What if there was a way to create our own personal combat styles? As in take existing animations, maybe some new ones and combine them together to make slow, or fast combos? Pick what we want for our charge attack as well. Customize our style in melee combat. Each movement and style added for each part of the combo adds damage, knockdown, special effects, etc.

 

Each weapon is limited to a certain set, and the sets increase with more moves as you go up in mastery rank. So if your Mastery rank 9 you would have some pretty wicked sick moves. (some sets may be identical to sets found with other weapons)

How on earth would animating this work? Would every attack return to a neutral stance? These would be the glitchiest looking attack animations ever. This is comletely unworkable as presented. There is a reason this has never been done before (to my knowledge), it would be an unprecidented ammount of work I doubt even a AAA title could afford.

 

Also block can be changed out with either block bullets, or melee counter attack, or simply block melee... even go as far as if your using block up close to an enemy when they shoot you with a gun you disarm them. Counter attacks could be simply a high damage attack, fast low damage attack, knock back(or throw), knock down, or stun.

Agreed. These could be implemented and Blocking needs work. I see mods or weapon specific abilities like hese in the future.

 

------------------------------

Now for guns...

As mentioned by Ruriko weapon augmentations, and if you have seen his topic you know where I stand on this... Highly advanced customizations in the skin section. Similar to changing out heads, or adding badges the options to add these will appear in skin section with their own stat bonuses, and cons... all augmentations do both good, and bad for a gun due to design.

 

But this can be taken further. No one gun has to be stuck as is. Bigger magazines can be added to a gun giving it noticeable features, Hek could have a shorter barrel for more personal up close damage, but shorter range. Guns could have a change out on ammo from ammo that penetrates and explodes from the inside, Ammo that punctures, ammo that specializes on different enemies... Like a bullet that enters unarmored enemies like infested and shatters inside of them doing long term damage as they move, and attack. Special bullets that decrease damage of enemies that are hit by it.

That is an absurd amount of work for things that can just be mods.

 

Maybe even push it further by making swivel an addon function for all rifles. It would work in place of the idea of sticking to walls. Get close to the edge of a wall stick your gun out just enough while aiming and then when you try to turn while aiming instead of your whole body turning you will do a first person view of the barrel that is swiveling and be able to swivel it around corners to take down enemies. When you return to normal view your rifle returns to default position.

Tenno don't take cover. It's the law.

 

Bows could get special addons like a unique glove the Tenno wears in order to shoot more then one arrow, or more then two if you have multi shot on.

Yuck

 

Special aiming tools to add to any gun in the game to actually give a scope view instead of just a zoom function with the usual crosshairs. Possibly an add on scope that when you aim at an enemy shows you the exact coordinates of an enemy on the map that is a far off during a defense mission like the ones at Kiliken so you can use your mic to tell your teammates where the enemy is on the map (If DE adds a grid map with numbers and stuff.)

You can already tag enemies with G. Seeing the whole map wouldn't work because enemies spawn when needed, the don't exist until you get nearby.

 

Special scopes on guns to allow thermal vision(which would also include foot prints on the ground which can be picked up by the thermal imaging just in case you don't have enemy radar and want to try sneaking up on enemies), night vision, and X-Ray vision(to see through walls). Maybe even a sonar vision for those who don't have Banshee, or can't get one to join their squad.

 

---------------------------

Now your wondering... wouldn't this render most mods useless? Well... do you like how some of the mods take up space that you could be filling out with a better mod?

 

Yes I do like that. It's how they balance.

Wouldn't this render Forma useless? It could depending... on certain details it could, but for the most part most weapons even without forma, and special augment bonuses would need some forming in order to fulfill all needs.

Edited August 28, 2013 by ValhaHazred

[Virtus_Dei_Est]

Follow DE abit longer... they are famous for taking an entire system and breaking it... you know the Mod system was broken down and rebuilt twice right? They also mentioned some other things they were going to break and revamp as well... Almost everything in the game is a placeholder...

 

i know, i know, just saying is not time with all the broken things that we have right now to add new mechanics, just want them to fix what we have so far...

[EclecticDragon]

I already threw like a thousand of those ideas out go scroll down or look up my name on the fan concepts if you want to see all my ideas dealing with how to handle enemies... No this is dealing with the issue of more weapons coming out...

 

Also I know a lot of how games are made... I use to run my own Never WinterNights server I know exactly what brings people in... I have played games since the first NES, and Gameboy all the way up to the newest gen systems... I have gone over the strengths of publishers, and indies... I have run across and followed some of the best Indie companies around like TaleWorlds.... More weapons is only a temporary hold... What needs to be done is more polishing...

Well you specifically mentioned those two ideas and I said that those would do little to fix the actual problems of warframe. And I'm sorry for doubting your understanding of Video game development, but when you ask them to stop making new weapons just to focus on programming when which would basically leave the a good portion of the art team and modeling team would be a grave misuse of resources.

[Hybridon]

I already threw like a thousand of those ideas out go scroll down or look up my name on the fan concepts if you want to see all my ideas dealing with how to handle enemies... No this is dealing with the issue of more weapons coming out...

 

Also I know a lot of how games are made... I use to run my own Never WinterNights server I know exactly what brings people in... I have played games since the first NES, and Gameboy all the way up to the newest gen systems... I have gone over the strengths of publishers, and indies... I have run across and followed some of the best Indie companies around like TaleWorlds.... More weapons is only a temporary hold... What needs to be done is more polishing...

 

I think what he means is tat the weapon creating team isnt linked to the development sector, meaning that new weapons doesnt actually interfere in the content, revamps, fixes, etc...

[Arlayn]

I think what he means is tat the weapon creating team isnt linked to the development sector, meaning that new weapons doesnt actually interfere in the content, revamps, fixes, etc...

Of course they are not linked... but what if they just moved them all into one sector focusing on one thing to speed up one thing into release, and maybe move some of the guys over who do have experience in the other areas over. (they might be experienced in different areas but I am sure at least some of them learned multiple task)

[Hybridon]

Of course they are not linked... but what if they just moved them all into one sector focusing on one thing to speed up one thing into release, and maybe move some of the guys over who do have experience in the other areas over. (they might be experienced in different areas but I am sure at least some of them learned multiple task)

 

Usually you will be specialized in a certain are, thus why level designers are doing it for 10-15 years, creatives 10-15 years, you can see that they are specialized when they have livestreams focused on specific teams.

 

I work at an advertising agency, we have around 6 different sectors, and in each sector specialized people for different things. For example, Im part of the creative sector, but I work with layouts, theres the copyrighter, the art finalist, webdesign, and each one is specialized on what he does. I may know the basics of other sectors, but I wont be able to achieve 30% of there quality in there area of expertise. Same thing around.

 

So whoever works with weapon designs on DE is specialized and has been studying that for sometime, just throw them into another sector isnt good for the game, and for DE, cause if you work on something you arent specialized, then probably its something you never wanted to do, use people as fillers just to fix stuff isnt the solution.

 

DE is growing, and slowly they are getting new people to work on the different sectors of the game, the thing is be patient, theres nothing else to do.

[Arlayn]

Usually you will be specialized in a certain are, thus why level designers are doing it for 10-15 years, creatives 10-15 years, you can see that they are specialized when they have livestreams focused on specific teams.

 

I work at an advertising agency, we have around 6 different sectors, and in each sector specialized people for different things. For example, Im part of the creative sector, but I work with layouts, theres the copyrighter, the art finalist, webdesign, and each one is specialized on what he does. I may know the basics of other sectors, but I wont be able to achieve 30% of there quality in there area of expertise. Same thing around.

 

So whoever works with weapon designs on DE is specialized and has been studying that for sometime, just throw them into another sector isnt good for the game, and for DE, cause if you work on something you arent specialized, then probably its something you never wanted to do, use people as fillers just to fix stuff isnt the solution.

 

DE is growing, and slowly they are getting new people to work on the different sectors of the game, the thing is be patient, theres nothing else to do.

Unless you consider weapons look like robots, and the mire looks like an infested... this seems quite backwards compatible if the weapons team can already make weapons that look like infested, and make weapons that could possibly be an addon to an enemy such as the original Hyena from unpublished Dark Sector(the one no one ever played) that had the machine guns pop out the back. No one ever said they would stop doing what they know how to do. They could easily have the weapons team work together on a new Corpus boss that has familiar weapon designs popping out of its body to open fire upon you... a good use of an entire team ganging up to build new bosses.

[Hybridon]

Unless you consider weapons look like robots, and the mire looks like an infested... this seems quite backwards compatible if the weapons team can already make weapons that look like infested, and make weapons that could possibly be an addon to an enemy such as the original Hyena from unpublished Dark Sector(the one no one ever played) that had the machine guns pop out the back. No one ever said they would stop doing what they know how to do. They could easily have the weapons team work together on a new Corpus boss that has familiar weapon designs popping out of its body to open fire upon you... a good use of an entire team ganging up to build new bosses.

 

And when was it stated they dont work along?

 

Thing is animation team works separately, but they use the models the proper team makes. Same with guns, and any other thing, people make models, and send them to the proper animation team, and so forth.

 

The biggest problem I see with your proposition over different combos and stuff is exactly why Blade Storm has a 2 blades pop out from each sleeve, they would have to do the infinite combos with each weapon, meaning too much work along with each new weapon released.

 

Its not press this button and now each weapon has the animations, they have to do it separately for EACH weapon, so that would be too much, considering you want them to fix other stuff, this would only take much much more time.

[ValhaHazred]

Haven't you ever heard the expression "too many cooks ruins the cake"? If they throw the whole damn art team on one thing, it doesn't get done faster, they get in each other's way. It takes about a week to create a gun. It takes at least a month or two for every enemy.

[Arlayn]

And when was it stated they dont work along?

 

Thing is animation team works separately, but they use the models the proper team makes. Same with guns, and any other thing, people make models, and send them to the proper animation team, and so forth.

 

The biggest problem I see with your proposition over different combos and stuff is exactly why Blade Storm has a 2 blades pop out from each sleeve, they would have to do the infinite combos with each weapon, meaning too much work along with each new weapon released.

 

Its not press this button and now each weapon has the animations, they have to do it separately for EACH weapon, so that would be too much, considering you want them to fix other stuff, this would only take much much more time.

Taking copy data animations and slapping the code to a weapon doesn't sound that hard... I used to do that in Never Winternights... It had a set of animations built in. You could easily add animation via code over and over for different things. They wouldn't have to make new animations they could easily take skana, Skana Prime, Cronus, and the other one handed swords and allow players to change around the animations seen on all of them.

[Hybridon]

Taking copy data animations and slapping the code to a weapon doesn't sound that hard... I used to do that in Never Winternights... It had a set of animations built in. You could easily add animation via code over and over for different things. They wouldn't have to make new animations they could easily take skana, Skana Prime, Cronus, and the other one handed swords and allow players to change around the animations seen on all of them.

 

I love how you take another game and use it as a "this works like this, then it should work exactly the same way on Warframe"

 

Watch the livestream, 7 or 8 if Im not mistaken, its clearly stated they where doing 2 blades on Ashs wrists because it would be too much work doing the animation for each set of melee weapons.

 

Therefore maybe, just maybe, warframe isnt coded the same way, or there are other limiting factors, therefore instead of just saying I could do it on NW, pay attention to what the developers are saying when talking about adding a certain mechanic ingame.

 

Im not saying it isnt possible, but that atm it isnt viable, and would only delay other content that can be tweaked, added that is much better than wow now i can use different combos. Thats just an additional cosmetic choice, not something truly needed.

 

And even though people complain about weapon add ons, diversity is the key for warframe to survive longer as they fix and tweak, along with the fact that the more weapons, the more different style players are attracted to the game, thus why so many different guns are being added.

[ValhaHazred]

Not to mention they did say something about multiple choosable animation sets down the road. The idles are just the beginning.

Just don't expect to be able to build-a-combo. Seriously, has that ever been in a game? I'm curious how it turned out if it has.

[Arlayn]

I love how you take another game and use it as a "this works like this, then it should work exactly the same way on Warframe"

 

Watch the livestream, 7 or 8 if Im not mistaken, its clearly stated they where doing 2 blades on Ashs wrists because it would be too much work doing the animation for each set of melee weapons.

 

Therefore maybe, just maybe, warframe isnt coded the same way, or there are other limiting factors, therefore instead of just saying I could do it on NW, pay attention to what the developers are saying when talking about adding a certain mechanic ingame.

 

Im not saying it isnt possible, but that atm it isnt viable, and would only delay other content that can be tweaked, added that is much better than wow now i can use different combos. Thats just an additional cosmetic choice, not something truly needed.

 

And even though people complain about weapon add ons, diversity is the key for warframe to survive longer as they fix and tweak, along with the fact that the more weapons, the more different style players are attracted to the game, thus why so many different guns are being added.

I am not saying make new animations for each weapon (at least not immediately) Besides the future of Warframe should be a player made content base as they said they would do some day in the future for Warframe... A weapon combo design system or maybe even a design your own weapon and add animations to it sounds like a likely solution.

[ValhaHazred]

Player made content is a whole other kettle of fish. We have what, 3 million players last count? There's got be at least a few hundred talented artists and programmers willing to make something they love in their free time. It can be tricky to handle in a FtP game, but it works for TF2 right?