Ash Bladestorm replacement (Hunter's Sight)

[Xarteros]

18 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

1) when did i actually say i dont care about ash. i said i have no problems with the way he is playing currently.

2) you mean instant press death? thats the last thing this game needs more of. most of the complaints come from "DE didnt make bladestorm instant press to kill" the marking system is quite fluid. it doesnt stop how you play in any way. shape or form. can be used while parkouring, has no cast animation so no casting delay.

3) what i see alot is people saying "well i can kill faster with my gun than it can" and to that i say, if you can kill any enemy with your gun faster, you dont need to use any damage power. it doesnt change the fact that bladestorm falls off much later than any gun.

4) OP's proposed change is nothing short of banshee;s sonar with clione spam. ash doesn't doesnt need that kind of automated gameplay. its cheaty and boring.

5) again all it does is promote stealth, non active gameplay through the use of spamming instant death.

1) You didn't say the exact words, "I don't care about Ash", I'm saying that you don't care about how Ash works at the moment, i.e. you like how he is and that's why you're arguing against the idea. I'm not saying 'you don't care about Ash' as in, 'you have no feelings about him' or 'you dislike him', I'm just saying you don't perceive his 4 being an issue.

On that note, I still have yet to see you actually post something constructive. All I see you is making tiring assertions about how happy you are with the existing systems, and how we all simply need to 'enjoy' what we have.

2) I don't recall ever talking about Instant death. Those are your words, not mine. I'm talking about removing the clunky feeling that a lot of players have with the current targeting system, whilst giving some purpose to his other powers whilst in the mode. DE are pushing synergy between abilities, why not us too? Again, it's all well and good that you don't mind the targeting system, but we don't like it. I feel it really does detract from how I play, since it forces me to stop moving and spin my mouse around like crazy just to get a reasonable amount of enemies. How about you make yourself useful and make suggestions about what they could change about the targeting that YOU would still be happy with. Don't just say 'nothing' either. This is meant to be a discussion, so how about you actually contribute?

3) "what i see alot is people saying "well i can kill faster with my gun than it can" " ~You

Not sure if you're talking about this forum thread, because that statement has not been said once by anybody here except you. In fact, out of the 6 times the word 'gun' has been used, 4 of them were you. I don't think anybody here is arguing that we'd prefer to use gunplay over this. I hope you realise that the entire point of this thread is to try and make the ability more fun to use. Not more powerful, not faster, not wider range, not cheaper cost. JUST more fun. Throwing strawman arguments about is just hurting the discussion.

4) As to the argument that's been raised several times about Sonar, there are a multitude of abilities that have similar effects between different Warframes. Sonar is a pulse that only affects enemies hit at the time; it shows them on the minimap, it doesn't show them through walls, and any player can attack the resulting weak points. The power I'm suggesting is not a pulse, it just shows everything in range at the time; it does show them through walls, and only Ash can attack the hearts for bonus effect. It's no different than Ivara having Prowl and Loki having Invisibility. Functionally, they're the same, but they have ways that work differently to create unique functions and themes.

There is only a small amount of functional overlap, and it's still much more tied to his theme, and definitely doesn't copy/paste. You could argue that Revenant's laser disco 4 is too similar to Mirage's laser disco 4. You could argue HEAPS of things that overlap. It's not an issue unless it takes a unique function or theme away from another frame.

5) It doesn't really promote stealth at all. From how I'd perceive using the power, it would actually just promote more active ability gameplay. Non active gameplay? Is that a joke? What's more non-active than both iterations of Bladestorm? You used to press 4 to win, and now you have to press 4 and wiggle your mouse about to win. How is that meant to be more active than my proposal? My idea opens up a plethora of options for players to choose how they want to play, WITHOUT impacting how players currently play in any serious way. You want to just walk into a room, target everything, and press your 4? Well, you can basically still do that; it just requires more than a single button press.

Nothing about my suggestion makes it 'instant death' as you keep spouting. Since it would be working in smaller areas, it's just going to be the same speed of death as normal Bladestorm, but smaller bites at a time. That also means that there's less overlap in team-play, since you aren't targeting an entire room at once while your allies are trying to kill stuff too. Also, if you consider using more than one ability to be 'spamming', then I guess you've made your closing statement to the discussion. Pitch in mate, stop attacking everyone's comments and just come up with something helpful

[Xarteros]

17 hours ago, Messaiga said:

I think the part he's referring to that doesn't really take much player input is the idea of having Teleport mark enemies around the target.  It is very much like what old Blade Storm was.  There are good ideas in this thread, but I'm starting to lean towards believing that having Teleport mark targets in an AoE is not one of them.

I was thinking a much more reasonable AoE. It wouldn't even necessarily need to effect enemies through walls (although obstacles shouldn't count). It'd be a way of launching into a group and laying down a bit of damage, much like old Bladestorm but MUCH smaller and designed to do similar damage to fewer enemies. I like the idea of leaping about, dropping some finisher clones here, throwing down a Smokebomb and blocking off a doorway there, and then chasing up the marked targets with some Shuriken clones. I think it would feel nice and fluid, and give players just that touch more synergy.

[EinheriarJudith]

35 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

~snip~

firstly if you think you can come into a public forum and expect to be exempt from scrutiny, you have a lot to learn. expect that people will dislike your suggestions.

you want to apply clones to his other 3 abilities turning them into mini blade storm without its manual marking mechanic. yeah you want instand press death without having to work for it. shuriken will be spammed more because people can get mini bladestorm on top of it already applying bleed procs and stripping armor (with augment), teleport will be out of control lethal by giving it an AOE, smoke bomb is not a skill used to kill its a defensive skill, and you want to give it shadows so you  can kill when you cloak? thats ridiculous, it all leads to turning on bladestorm, using shuriken to auto mark and whatever it doesnt kill is marked. using smoke bomb to auto mark and using teleport to auto mark what ever it also doesnt kill. just so you dont have to manually mark yourself.

pass. ive said all i need to say. spend more time playing ash is all i can recommend.