Anyone Else Watching This Livestream And Being Dissapointed They Are Nerfing Overheat Tanking?

[theammostore]

Not really no. I kinda like the change. I like thinking of Ember of super flaming ball of kill things while being a massive ball of glass.

[CloudPies]

Not really no. I kinda like the change. I like thinking of Ember of super flaming ball of kill things while being a massive ball of glass.

So killed before her abilities can hit the enemy? I think DE is hiring.

[theammostore]

So killed before her abilities can hit the enemy? I think DE is hiring.

Infested have snipers now?

[CloudPies]

theammostore, on 06 Sept 2013 - 5:16 PM, said:

Infested have snipers now?

What wave have you run on Xini? Did you get to 10? Have you see the mob of toxics? They don't need snipers...

However, ember will be a S#&$ infested-counter if she can't deal with ancients.

Edited September 6, 2013 by CloudPies

[theammostore]

What wave have you run on Xini? Did you get to 10? Have you see the mob of toxics? They don't need snipers...

However, ember will be a S#&$ infested-counter if she can't deal with ancients.

34. Never got hit by toxics. Too busy with WoF, sprinting around, and using my guns from outside the range of the Ancients.

[CloudPies]

34. Never got hit by toxics. Too busy with WoF, sprinting around, and using my guns from outside the range of the Ancients.

While.... the pod gets swarmed?

[taiiat]

i gotta admit, 91% less damage... was silly. especially since Iron Skin was reworked multiple times.

 

but, we've been told it now reduces damage, and increases damage. makes it still quite useful, IMO.

 

 

though personally i feel a sort of - why doesn't Ember just always do that much more damage and take that much less damage, and just put another more 'useful' power in it, so players would choose to use it, rather than it being - use this power because it's a requirement. 

 

i'm not really much of a fan of 'temporary spells' as being feature powers for a Warframe. 

[theammostore]

While.... the pod gets swarmed?

Never got close until the 30's. Then I had to take their attention.

[dragonslayer667]

You must not know about the armor changes.

armor changes or not giving us another useless damage ability and getting rid of the ONLY utility this frame had was th worst move ever.

[A1CZERO]

armor changes or not giving us another useless damage ability and getting rid of the ONLY utility this frame had was th worst move ever.

 

Why is damage useless? She's a damage frame. A damage frame where every one of her damage abilites STACK with eachother.

[Rafa1910]

Why is damage useless? She's a damage frame. A damage frame where every one of her damage abilites STACK with eachother.

Damage abilities become useless because they always have a limit where they just stop working. People dont play Nova in high levels because of her damage, they play her for the double damage buff and slow she gives to all enemies in a huge radius. People dont play Nyx for her damage, Nyx chaos actually scales with level so the higher level the enemies the more useful their abilities are. People dont play Vauban or Frost for their damage but for their crowd control, and people dont play Rhino for the damage his ult does but for it freezing all enemies in the air, and for his 50% damage buff.

 

The only frame that is used purely for her damage is Saryn, and its because her ult deals INSANE damage, so insane that it makes 2 of her abilities useless because they are just not as effective at killing things as her ulti. And Saryn has the stats to actually get in close range to the enemies and use it. Embers ult is nowhere near the same level as miasma, neither does she have the armour/shields/health to use it.

 

So yes, having a frame with 4 damage abilities IS useless, even saryn has molt, and nova has wormhole, ember just has 4 variants of the same ability. It is useless because she has no utility AND past level 50 SHE HAS NO DAMAGE EITHER.

 

But hey, I guess using ember for her damage is cool if you never go beyond mars.

[A1CZERO]

Damage abilities become useless because they always have a limit where they just stop working. People dont play Nova in high levels because of her damage, they play her for the double damage buff and slow she gives to all enemies in a huge radius. People dont play Nyx for her damage, Nyx chaos actually scales with level so the higher level the enemies the more useful their abilities are. People dont play Vauban or Frost for their damage but for their crowd control, and people dont play Rhino for the damage his ult does but for it freezing all enemies in the air, and for his 50% damage buff.

 

The only frame that is used purely for her damage is Saryn, and its because her ult deals INSANE damage, so insane that it makes 2 of her abilities useless because they are just not as effective at killing things as her ulti. And Saryn has the stats to actually get in close range to the enemies and use it. Embers ult is nowhere near the same level as miasma, neither does she have the armour/shields/health to use it.

 

So yes, having a frame with 4 damage abilities IS useless, even saryn has molt, and nova has wormhole, ember just has 4 variants of the same ability. It is useless because she has no utility AND past level 50 SHE HAS NO DAMAGE EITHER.

 

But hey, I guess using ember for her damage is cool if you never go beyond mars.

 

Armor and damage changes are coming. Soon.

[TheGambler_BR]

Armor and damage changes are coming. Soon.

 

Armor and damage changes do NOT give utility to powers. Stunning, multiplying damage, diverting and protecting cannot be achieved through pure damage. And those effects are useful throughout all levels and all enemies.

[CloudPies]

A1CZERO, on 07 Sept 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Why is damage useless? She's a damage frame. A damage frame where every one of her damage abilites STACK with eachother.

So tell me good sir, how do you plan on utilizing all these skills without getting raped?

[A1CZERO]

Armor and damage changes do NOT give utility to powers. Stunning, multiplying damage, diverting and protecting cannot be achieved through pure damage. And those effects are useful throughout all levels and all enemies.

 

Armor and damage changes let you kill things that you can't atm.

Overheat eventually also became irrelevant at a point when things could kill you in seconds. Saying things are only useful if they scale to infinity is $&*&*#(%& and it's not how the game is being balanced.

[A1CZERO]

So tell me good sir, how do you plan on utilizing all these skills without getting raped?

 

Same as before. I never have any problems staying alive before or after the change. Though it's a bit more dangerous now vs Grineer.

 

The increased damage she got on her kit doesn't feel like enough for the trade atm but I'll reserve my judgement until Update 10.

[KoshLovesYou]

So yes, having a frame with 4 damage abilities IS useless, even saryn has molt, and nova has wormhole, ember just has 4 variants of the same ability. It is useless because she has no utility AND past level 50 SHE HAS NO DAMAGE EITHER.

 

But hey, I guess using ember for her damage is cool if you never go beyond mars.

 

 

 

Armor and damage changes do NOT give utility to powers. Stunning, multiplying damage, diverting and protecting cannot be achieved through pure damage. And those effects are useful throughout all levels and all enemies.

 

I like these comments, because they focus on the design problems with the post 9.8 patches. And they all (as does this thread mostly) seem to point towards a central question:

 

What Is Ember's "Job" As A Warframe?

 

We've got some basics down, from her current suite of powers and some choices made by the team.

 

-Does fire damage, specifically in melee/close range focused around the player.

-Isn't supposed to be a tank for damage, is supposed to assist in large amounts of close-focused output.

 

So it sounds like Ember is supposed to sacrifice her own protection in the name of excessive fire damage in tight quarters. Her rather low armor class (ignoring what Overheat used to do to her resistance for a moment), helps emphasize that. So our problem comes from a lack of utility powers to help Ember achieve that, especially at higher levels where damage and damage types might not be a bigger impact. Overheat was the go-to for that since it kept Ember alive while she churned out the fire; Overheat and Fire Blast were my go-to, with Fireball largely ignored.

 

So what we need to answer is this: What utility abilities that aren't tank focused would help Ember survive while she's trying to put out close-quarters fire damage, or help the squad achieve the same?

[Rafa1910]

Armor and damage changes are coming. Soon.

I like how youve completely ignored all the times I replied to you and just mention the armor changes like Im not aware of them. Its like you actually think that will make any difference.

 

As I said in my posts before and I hope you actually read them. This doesnt have anything to do with the armor on enemies. But for the hell of it, lets assume that your expectations about these changes are right, and after U10 all of ember's abilities end up doing a lot more damage. That would be good, alright, but that doesnt change the fact that that all of embers abilities will be. Exactly. The same. Thing. 

 

Let me put at it this way. Fireblast was barely used before this update. Why? Because everything it does, world on fire can do it better AND you can move the area of effect. 

 

So what did they do with overheat? Turned it into YET ANOTHER skill that is just a less efficient version of WoF. Wheres the issue with that? Well, Ember currently has only one useful skill which is the one that does more damage. It doesnt matter if you can stack their damage. Look at Saryn.

 

Even after the armor changes, even if it buffs all of embers skills, even if it brings her damage up to Novas level, It wont change the fact that she will have 4 damage abilities and the only useful one will be the one that does more damage. It doesnt change the fact that her powers will still become USELESS after a certain point in the game. Face it. Ember needs UTILITY. She needs a complete rework of fireball, fireblast and overheat. 

 

The problem is not that they want to turn ember into a caster offensive frame. The problem is that Nova has rockets that orbit her and seek targets, a controlled bomb that absorbs and multiplies all damage you shoot into it (which will do more damage than anything ember can pull out of her &#!, armor changes or not), a chain reaction explosion with a huge rank and a massive debuff on enemies (UTILITY, see where Im getting at?) and a FREAKING TELEPORT. What does ember have right now? Fire damage in a point, fire damage in a tiny circle, fire damage in a medium circle and fire damage in a big circle. What will ember have AFTER U10 and your miracle armor change? Do more damage in a point, and more damage in 3 different sized circles.

 

I will ask you again, because you just keep ignoring any logic. Does any other frame have a skill set consisting of 4 damage abilities? Is there a frame that doesnt have any utlity, defensive or buff/debuff skill? Does any of them rely completely on damage?

 

This may be my last post on this thread. Im tired of typing a wall of text about how this is wrong for you to keep spitting your "Hurr armor changes coming soon" and "Moar damage is good it stacks and moar kills!" nonsense like youve been doing all thread.

 

"So it sounds like Ember is supposed to sacrifice her own protection in the name of excessive fire damage in tight quarters."

Thats it! How didnt I see it before? Ember literally fits the role of a suicide bomber!

Edited September 7, 2013 by Rafa1910

[CloudPies]

Funny thing is, on her description page:

 

EMBER is a nightmare for light-armored targets. Ember can super-heat the air which opens up surprising crowd-control possibilities.

crowd-control possibilities.

The only crowds she can control is the teenagers ogling her &#!.

Edited September 7, 2013 by CloudPies

[Dreamingfur]

DE want to make this game like normal shooter like is Bf3 and that things... i dont want to run in cover and my weapons define if i going to win or not.. just put shield and defensive stuff in my warframe because i cant do nothing agaist high lvl mobs (ember)

[Mimibomber]

I see the word "caster" thrown around alot ... casters are the backrow mages that can't take a hit, they don't run at the mods sword in hand.

 

Ember is not a caster.

 

Her whole kit in about getting in the face of whatever you're fighting and kicking it's face in. so if they want to make her into a caster change her whole kit to something like Nova's.

[theammostore]

I like these comments, because they focus on the design problems with the post 9.8 patches. And they all (as does this thread mostly) seem to point towards a central question:

 

What Is Ember's "Job" As A Warframe?

 

We've got some basics down, from her current suite of powers and some choices made by the team.

 

-Does fire damage, specifically in melee/close range focused around the player.

-Isn't supposed to be a tank for damage, is supposed to assist in large amounts of close-focused output.

 

So it sounds like Ember is supposed to sacrifice her own protection in the name of excessive fire damage in tight quarters. Her rather low armor class (ignoring what Overheat used to do to her resistance for a moment), helps emphasize that. So our problem comes from a lack of utility powers to help Ember achieve that, especially at higher levels where damage and damage types might not be a bigger impact. Overheat was the go-to for that since it kept Ember alive while she churned out the fire; Overheat and Fire Blast were my go-to, with Fireball largely ignored.

 

So what we need to answer is this: What utility abilities that aren't tank focused would help Ember survive while she's trying to put out close-quarters fire damage, or help the squad achieve the same?

How about armor shred? Any time she hit's a thing with, I'm going to just say Fireball as an example, reduce armor by 25% of what it is currently when it is struck. Therefore, four embers cannot remove armor, and she get's some nice utility.

 

If not that then how about a better panic chance, at least for some of her abilities if not all. For example, World on Fire, makes enemies panic when they are hit, stopping them in their tracks to make them combat the fire on their body. Hold on, I'll make a new thread for this.

 

DE want to make this game like normal shooter like is Bf3 and that things... i dont want to run in cover and my weapons define if i going to win or not.. just put shield and defensive stuff in my warframe because i cant do nothing agaist high lvl mobs (ember)

Lol you're an idiot.

[Mimibomber]

I like how youve completely ignored all the times I replied to you and just mention the armor changes like Im not aware of them. Its like you actually think that will make any difference.

 

As I said in my posts before and I hope you actually read them. This doesnt have anything to do with the armor on enemies. But for the hell of it, lets assume that your expectations about these changes are right, and after U10 all of ember's abilities end up doing a lot more damage. That would be good, alright, but that doesnt change the fact that that all of embers abilities will be. Exactly. The same. Thing. 

 

Let me put at it this way. Fireblast was barely used before this update. Why? Because everything it does, world on fire can do it better AND you can move the area of effect. 

 

So what did they do with overheat? Turned it into YET ANOTHER skill that is just a less efficient version of WoF. Wheres the issue with that? Well, Ember currently has only one useful skill which is the one that does more damage. It doesnt matter if you can stack their damage. Look at Saryn.

 

Even after the armor changes, even if it buffs all of embers skills, even if it brings her damage up to Novas level, It wont change the fact that she will have 4 damage abilities and the only useful one will be the one that does more damage. It doesnt change the fact that her powers will still become USELESS after a certain point in the game. Face it. Ember needs UTILITY. She needs a complete rework of fireball, fireblast and overheat. 

 

The problem is not that they want to turn ember into a caster offensive frame. The problem is that Nova has rockets that orbit her and seek targets, a controlled bomb that absorbs and multiplies all damage you shoot into it (which will do more damage than anything ember can pull out of her &#!, armor changes or not), a chain reaction explosion with a huge rank and a massive debuff on enemies (UTILITY, see where Im getting at?) and a FREAKING TELEPORT. What does ember have right now? Fire damage in a point, fire damage in a tiny circle, fire damage in a medium circle and fire damage in a big circle. What will ember have AFTER U10 and your miracle armor change? Do more damage in a point, and more damage in 3 different sized circles.

 

I will ask you again, because you just keep ignoring any logic. Does any other frame have a skill set consisting of 4 damage abilities? Is there a frame that doesnt have any utlity, defensive or buff/debuff skill? Does any of them rely completely on damage?

 

This may be my last post on this thread. Im tired of typing a wall of text about how this is wrong for you to keep spitting your "Hurr armor changes coming soon" and "Moar damage is good it stacks and moar kills!" nonsense like youve been doing all thread.

 

"So it sounds like Ember is supposed to sacrifice her own protection in the name of excessive fire damage in tight quarters."

Thats it! How didnt I see it before? Ember literally fits the role of a suicide bomber!

 

I .. I love you. 1+