Matchmaking in Warframe

[Acquamancer]

After reflecting a bit on this topic, I came to the conclusion that adding matchmaking in Warframe would be interesting; not based on skill, nor level, but on lore progression. I mean, everytime the game puts a MR 4 on my squad, I feel like it's my duty not to use Operator mode, since it's going to spoil basically the biggest revelation lore-wise in the game, and that's just not cool.
I know it's not a must, but wouldn't it feel better to divide the matchmaking in pre Second Dream and post Second Dream? This would also, indirectly, avoid future things like the rework on Ember because it was "not fun with new players" (I'm not implying that the rework was good or bad, i'm just saying that they drastically reduced her play-rate by trying to make her enjoyable in squads with new players, and just ended up shifting the "room clearing meta" to other warframes).
So, what are your thoughts on the subject?  ^-^

[---Merchant---]

My stance is that this tiny bit of lore is not that serious matter,and it is hard to not know about operators considering every patch we get information about them or in this tennogen round cosmetics. Considering tons of downsides to this:no thank you.

For new players it would be hell
For me it would be paradise because new players rarely contribute to the mission but I gladly carry them because new players are important to the game.



People just are not that stupid and can 1+1=3

 

[ClapTrap007]

This is an excellent idea! The points you made are reasonable and justified!

No spoilers for new players so they can enjoy the story as much as possible and...the more valid point imo, avoiding retar...ahem...I mean unnecessary changes to certain warframes that make no sense! Cuz nerfs (especially frame nerfs) make me go batS#&$ crazy let me tell ya! Most of the times nerfs are made with comparing one thing to another - "why does X frame has to be better than Y frame?...nerf X frame!!" Aint this the most moronic thing you've heard XD

Now the logical and sane way to make this statement will be - "Why does X frame has to be better than Y frame?...buff Y frame!"

[---Merchant---]

4 minutes ago, ClapTrap007 said:

This is an excellent idea! The points you made are reasonable and justified!

No spoilers for new players so they can enjoy the story as much as possible and...the more valid point imo, avoiding retar...ahem...I mean unnecessary changes to certain warframes that make no sense! Cuz nerfs (especially frame nerfs) make me go batS#&$ crazy let me tell ya! Most of the times nerfs are made with comparing one thing to another - "why does X frame has to be better than Y frame?...nerf X frame!!" Aint this the most moronic thing you've heard XD

Now the logical and sane way to make this statement will be - "Why does X frame has to be better than Y frame?...buff Y frame!"

I mean one could ask why even make other frames than saryn if wu-kong does get played by 2 people(just for mastery rank ofcourse) and saryn by 200000 daily.

It was really eye-opener to see frame usage in % 
After that you kinda understand why there are nerfs and changes.

I get that one would want to see everyone very good instead of very bad but both methods work.

Edited November 24, 2018 by ---Merchant---

[ClapTrap007]

10 minutes ago, ---Merchant--- said:

I mean one could ask why even make other frames than saryn if wu-kong does get played by 2 people(just for mastery rank ofcourse) and saryn by 200000 daily.

It was really eye-opener to see frame usage in % 
After that you kinda understand why there are nerfs and changes.

Well I guess time to delete Saryn?

This all comes down to how WF is set up as a game! It's a horde shooter with almost if not ANY other interesting objective that actually matter! So now DE can either:

1)delete all killframes
2)give all warframes 1 button AOE clear
3)make actual game mechanics that make non killframes way more viable and fun

By nerfing Saryn you think people will play Wukong more? More likely they will just pick the next best thing in killing or just stick with her! Here is an idea..how about they buff Wukong and give him an actual move set instead of nerfing functionalities of other frames. 

Inaros is tankyer than Banshee...nerf Inaros lul! Why should he be tanky and Banshee not? Same things apply to the example you gave with Saryn and Wukong. I can even go full $&*&*#(%& mode and say..nerf Wukong! Why should he have an invulnerability/undying ability while Saryn can get oneshoted by a random bombard?

[---Merchant---]

9 minutes ago, ClapTrap007 said:

Well I guess time to delete Saryn?

This all comes down to how WF is set up as a game! It's a horde shooter with almost if not ANY other interesting objective that actually matter! So now DE can either:

1)delete all killframes
2)give all warframes 1 button AOE clear
3)make actual game mechanics that make non killframes way more viable and fun

By nerfing Saryn you think people will play Wukong more? More likely they will just pick the next best thing in killing or just stick with her! Here is an idea..how about they buff Wukong and give him an actual move set instead of nerfing functionalities of other frames. 

Inaros is tankyer than Banshee...nerf Inaros lul! Why should he be tanky and Banshee not? Same things apply to the example you gave with Saryn and Wukong. I can even go full $&*&*#(%& mode and say..nerf Wukong! Why should he have an invulnerability/undying ability while Saryn can get oneshoted by a random bombard?

Look at rivens,they are tied to usage not weapon power so your argument is invalid,because we already know how are these things decided at DE.
So yes nerfing saryn does make as much sense as buffing wu-kong,and what is simpler reducing saryn dmg by 50% to make her less attractive or creating completely new skills for wukong hmmm really makes you think

You want people to buy wukong skin(if he has one) you already sold saryn,so yes you can delete her from that  business side of view.
People would ofcourse get much more angry if you delete saryn,compared to nerfing her,so that is the pick here.

If it was about power balance(defense to offense ratio) banhee would not be as trash now,because with how little tanky she is,she should be able to instant kill 300lvl enemy in one spell click.

Also,when skins come,notice how skill changes come along with it (for example vauban recently) or they are direct hp,shield,energy,armor upgrade(prime)

So yeah,it is not ideal but that is how things go and it is not because mr1 player does QQ in forum

 

[ClapTrap007]

8 minutes ago, ---Merchant--- said:

Look at rivens,they are tied to usage not weapon power so your argument is invalid,because we already know how are these things decided at DE.
So yes nerfing saryn does make as much sense as buffing wu-kong,and what is simpler reducing saryn dmg by 50% to make her less attractive or creating completely new skills for wukong hmmm really makes you think

You want people to buy wukong skin(if he has one) you already sold saryn,so yes you can delete her from that  business side of view.
People would ofcourse get much more angry if you delete saryn,compared to nerfing her,so that is the pick here.

If it was about power balance(defense to offense ratio) banhee would not be as trash now,because with how little tanky she is,she should be able to instant kill 300lvl enemy in one spell click.

Also,when skins come,notice how skill changes come along with it (for example vauban recently) or they are direct hp,shield,energy,armor upgrade(prime)

So yeah,it is not ideal but that is how things go and it is not because mr1 player does QQ in forum

(tbh frames are the only thing that really interest me in terms of "balancing")

"Meta" is the word we are looking for!

By nerfing the meta it can potentially:

1)shift
2)stay the same cuz nothing else is good enough to force the change

But will it really shift? Again it's based on how WF is set up as a game!

Nerf killframes and people start using non killframes? Most likely not. Sometimes the more things change the more they stay
the same! With the exception that the thing that got changed/nerfed has all of its users angry and bitter! Why? Cuz the meta
is still the same. You are looking to play the things that you already were looking to play. Only this time half of them are
not as viable as before..so I guess move to the unnerfed portion...until that gets nerfed too I suppose. Will the meta change
then I wonder?

[---Merchant---]

8 minutes ago, ClapTrap007 said:

(tbh frames are the only thing that really interest me in terms of "balancing")

"Meta" is the word we are looking for!

By nerfing the meta it can potentially:

1)shift
2)stay the same cuz nothing else is good enough to force the change

But will it really shift? Again it's based on how WF is set up as a game!

Nerf killframes and people start using non killframes? Most likely not. Sometimes the more things change the more they stay
the same! With the exception that the thing that got changed/nerfed has all of its users angry and bitter! Why? Cuz the meta
is still the same. You are looking to play the things that you already were looking to play. Only this time half of them are
not as viable as before..so I guess move to the unnerfed portion...until that gets nerfed too I suppose. Will the meta change
then I wonder?

Well,so far it worked well for them.
If it did not,they would probably stop doing it because it would be fool's errand.

I admit to change my frame after nerfs,i used to play banshee,she got 500% dmg nerf and then i played red chicken,red chicken got 1500% nerf and now I play saryn,if they nerf her,guess what i m gonna play nidus or mirrage. And ofcourse I'm gonna buy the skins for those new frames i use now like a good boy.

Now let's imagine they never nerf banshee,i would still play banshee,i would feel no reason to play anything else,i m already used to banshee,i have skin, even if they give exactly same skills to wukong and +20% dmg i will not change and go thru forma-trouble+skin price again.


Got it now?

[ClapTrap007]

26 minutes ago, ---Merchant--- said:

Well,so far it worked well for them.
If it did not,they would probably stop doing it because it would be fool's errand.

I admit to change my frame after nerfs,i used to play banshee,she got 500% dmg nerf and then i played red chicken,red chicken got 1500% nerf and now I play saryn,if they nerf her,guess what i m gonna play nidus or mirrage. And ofcourse I'm gonna buy the skins for those new frames i use now like a good boy.

Now let's imagine they never nerf banshee,i would still play banshee,i would feel no reason to play anything else,i m already used to banshee,i have skin, even if they give exactly same skills to wukong and +20% dmg i will not change and go thru forma-trouble+skin price again.

And there you have it! You've proved my point. Nerfing things will just make you use different stuff....but the same..but different...but still the same!

Also I'm interested on how any of these nerfs made the game better since there is literally 0 competitiveness in WF!

Objective: Kill enemies...like...a lot of enemies!

Frames that does that fast and efficiently: Saryn,Mesa,Banshee,Equinox,Octavia,Mirage

*Nerfing all of the frames above*

The rest of the frames become better than the above mentioned frames at killing enemies - No!

*Nerf the above mentioned frames again*

The rest of the frames become better than the above mentioned frames at killing enemies - No!

*Nerfing killframes again*

...guys...ahhh..I mean I know you aint gonna delete them but..is this going somewhere? The frames that are designed to kill a lot of enemies are still gonna kill a lot of enemies - shocker I know! But listen what if we switch to making the frames that are not designed to kill a lot of enemies better?(it will promote these frames since these changes will come out with a skin maybe?) Or better yet make us use the nonkillframes!

This is directly connected with my idea on why there should be roles in WF! I have touched this topic on a few posts so far but I do intend to make it a full post giving detailed analisys on why this change will be one of the best things ever for WF!

So..overall..no I didn't get it from your standpoint XD

Edited November 24, 2018 by ClapTrap007
grammar XD

[---Merchant---]

3 minutes ago, ClapTrap007 said:

And there you have it! You've proved my point. Nerfing things will just make you use different stuff....but the same..but different...but still the same!

you still do not get it

 

Spoiler

>Nerf top performer at x harshly
>People use something that was second best at x or try something very different(I even switched to tanks after aoe dps nerfs)
>They buy forma bundle,frame,catalyst,exilus thingy,skin maybe colors
>Profit

Now lets say we take what you say
>Buff bottom performer to be as good or almost as good as top performer
>Still no reason to use him because you already invested in the other and it would have to be insanely better than previous top performer for people to even consider doing it
>No need for skin,forma,exilus,catalyst....

It is already true that ivara and loki are top spy pick
trinity eidolon 
etc

So you mostly care only about the most important niche,and that is killing,at the moment,you need to kill pretty much everywhere,killing does give tons of exp etc so yeah killframe will be always at top for general but that does not mean you can not nerf rhino shield by 90% to make people play nidus and nezha more.

Also idk why you say something about "making game better" it is not about making game better,it is about selling stuff to players under excuse of balance

It is for example super easy to balance weapons
you can have 10 damage 2 shots per second pistol and 20 damage 1 shot per second pistol,they have same dps,one is better for headshots other is better if your aim is bad.Mods can screw it a little and one will deal 8k dps and other 10k dps one may have bleed for 30% dmg so maybe 8k vs 13k
But ingame we have 300,000dps weapons and 4000dps weapons that did not happen by some random chance,you can not go this wrong if you did not wish to
There is also no excuse to be made about "But boltor prime is more tanky than Sicarus prime" 

So balance was never the concern.

And yes,you totally can nerf every frame except wukong and wukong will become 1. pick for 95% of players

Lets say banshee does 5000dps
reduce it to 1dps

Now wukong got better skillset for killing than banshee


People would be angry for 2 weeks and then enjoy wukong like they always do


Btw my most played frame is frost prime,with like 400hours on him

 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Topic starts off about match making

Topic ventures off into frame balance

There goes the neighborhood

[ClapTrap007]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Topic starts off about match making

Topic ventures off into frame balance

There goes the neighborhood

More like OP cleverly disguises topic as match making but mentions an old wound in the warframe community (Ember) and ways to prevent further mind numbing scenarios like that one! Hence frame balancing! 😄

[ClapTrap007]

1 hour ago, ClapTrap007 said:

So..overall..no I didn't get it from your standpoint XD

 

36 minutes ago, ---Merchant--- said:

you still do not get it

Yes :P