Rattleguts haymaker/gibber

[Riger82]

Killstream on both.

Haymaker gives 56 damage, 3.67 fire rate= 205.52 dps

Gibber gives 16.7 damage, 11 fire rate= 183.7 dps

Why do so many of the builds recommend the gibber over the haymaker for the rattleguts when the haymaker is better dps? I could see the fire rate being better for status builds, but even killstream builds recommend the gibber, and I don't get why.

 

[Pandoran_Stallion]

The higher your fire rate, the more status effects "refresh" or stack. In the sense of using corrosive, this matters far more because every hit that deals corrosive means your next hit has 25% less armor to deal with, happening at a faster rate with Gibber than with Haymaker. If you have high-level enemies with 99% damage reduction and compare TTKs, the weapon that strips armor faster will also kill faster. 

Faster grips also change the distribution of impact damage from large amounts of impact to none at all, making headshots easier. You'll deal more headshots and more slash damage with a Ramble or even a Lovetap. Compounding this issue is recoil which gets frankly ridiculous on Haymaker. As someone who keeps multiple calculators with different methods to determine TTKs and DPS, numbers aren't everything, so the Lovetap and Ramble are the safest bet on Rattleguts.

People recommending gibber seem to have something against Impact, but with a 2% chance or less to proc on Ramble, you're better off with that due to ammo economy and straight DPS being a bit higher. You need to have the damage to back you up after stripping armor, after all.

 

Also, side note: Killstream looks good on paper but isn't optimal in practice. You'll have better results with a Ramble/Bashrack or Lovetap/Slapneedle due to the higher base status chance. It also has better riven potential, even though the numbers look worse for crit at first glance.

Edited November 28, 2018 by UpgradeInProgress

[BL4CKN0ISE]

Test both out and see for yourself. Anyways, people get way too caught up on "DPS". You made a post comparing 205.5 to 183.7 DPS as if that means much. What actually means something is 11 fire rate compared to 3.67. The damage numbers put those two weapons in the same category, but one will feel much better to shoot. Who wants a slow automatic weapon? 

Edited November 28, 2018 by BL4CKN0ISE

[Riger82]

On 2018-11-27 at 5:42 AM, ssj782 said:

I could see the fire rate being better for status builds,

I said it there. My question wasn't 'why status'. It was more about why do crit builds also recommend gibber.

And don't say 2% or less, because just gilding a kitgun adds another 11 or 12%, so even a 2% becomes 13-14%. Zaws and kitguns are worthless before gilding other than the beastly catchmoon. If you haven't gilded it, you haven't forma'd it. And it is useless to use ungilded numbers like you just did.

I found this looking around for gilded stats: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cnWhG0vpqPaYlW_n4le9VVWPrDdfnv25p-cZ7HkQub8/edit#gid=0

The lowest possible status chance I saw was 11%. Not great, but not the worst I've seen either.

Edited November 28, 2018 by ssj782

[Pandoran_Stallion]

I don't think you read what I wrote when referring to 2% or less. I'm referring to impact proc distribution, which, if you calculate it, results in a 2% chance to have an Impact proc if a status effect occurs on Ramble. I've gilded, 5-forma'd, playtested, and riven built 6 rattleguts Kitguns this week alone, so I'm very sure I know what I'm talking about 

I'm not using ungilded numbers, I'm using numbers from a fully-built Kitgun (without a riven for comparison's sake) and referring to proportional status distribution. My response was that Gibber deals no impact damage and has low recoil, and then I stated that it's pointless to use Gibber to avoid Impact procs when there's only a 2% chance to proc impact on Ramble anyways. The Rattleguts actually performs batter than catchmoon against single targets.

And please, don't be so aggressive in your response. I am trying to be detailed because if there's anything I dislike it's misinformed advice.

Edited November 28, 2018 by UpgradeInProgress