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Pvparanoia Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love 2V2

MXultra

By MXultra,
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MXultra

MXultra

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There is a gang of extremely vocal (albeit inarticulate) forum members who have expressed misgivings about PvP. This post is an attempt to disarm their prejudices and ease tensions.

 

Things not to worry about:

 

-The main argument being repeated by the anti-PvP mafia is that it will split DE's focus which will lead to PvE content being released slower. This is irrational and here's why: PvP is not going to require significant content updates. No PvP-only content will ever HAVE to be made. They probably will make a few arenas, but in the future all they have to do is repurpose a tile from a PvE tileset. Most defense maps would make good 2v2 arenas.


 


-Balances to PvP will not have to effect PvE.

 


-PvP will not become so fun that no one plays PvE. This is a mini game. Maybe you binge on it with some friends at first, but soon it will be something to mix it up after a long day of farming. Or a way to kill a few minutes while you wait for a friend to finish their survival/defense mission.

 


Things to love:

 

-PvP will reveal new ways of understanding combat that lead to improvements in the game. For example: Data mined from PvP fights could go toward improving the Stalker's AI and abilities.

 

-Unforeseen synergies in 2v2 pairs could lead to more experimentation in PvE cells.

 

-More free game that you'll eventually play and end up liking and then pretend that you never hated it.

 

If we still can't learn to get along, maybe it's time for a PvP feedback forum.
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_ThePro_

_ThePro_

Posted
Posted

 

There is a gang of extremely vocal (albeit inarticulate) forum members who have expressed misgivings about PvP. This post is an attempt to disarm their prejudices and ease tensions.
 
Things not to worry about:
 
-The main argument being repeated by the anti-PvP mafia is that it will split DE's focus which will lead to PvE content being released slower. This is irrational and here's why: PvP is not going to require significant content updates. No PvP-only content will ever HAVE to be made. They probably will make a few arenas, but in the future all they have to do is repurpose a tile from a PvE tileset. Most defense maps would make good 2v2 arenas.
 
-Balances to PvP will not have to effect PvE.
 
-PvP will not become so fun that no one plays PvE. This is a mini game. Maybe you binge on it with some friends at first, but soon it will be something to mix it up after a long day of farming. Or a way to kill a few minutes while you wait for a friend to finish their survival/defense mission.
 
Things to love:
 
-PvP will reveal new ways of understanding combat that lead to improvements in the game. For example: Data mined from PvP fights could go toward improving the Stalker's AI and abilities.
 
-Unforeseen synergies in 2v2 pairs could lead to more experimentation in PvE cells.
 
-More free game that you'll eventually play and end up liking and then pretend that you never hated it.
 
If we still can't learn to get along, maybe it's time for a PvP feedback forum.

 

- it is already doing it

-hopefully

-already happens

 

crappy things you mentioned to love

-so?

-nope

-go throw yourself from a cliff

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NotBot

NotBot

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You know you don't disarm tension in a conflict by insulting the opposition and claiming your own position is correct, right?

 

Anyways, while I support PVP, the first point is wrong. PVP will slow down PVE to a degree. To what degree and whether it's worth it is the matter to debate.

 

I do agree with the rest of the points, though.

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Tsukinoki

Tsukinoki

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Cant wait to see the people QQing about an invisible loki using an Ogris and just dominating the 2v2 without any real way to retaliate.  That's the first thing I see happening when they officially release those maps.

Edited by Tsukinoki
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MXultra

MXultra

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You know you don't disarm tension in a conflict by insulting the opposition and claiming your own position is correct, right?

 

 

Yes, at this point I may be trolling them because they so actively prevent legitimate discussion of PvP.

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General_Krull

General_Krull

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I Wish they would dedicate the whole team on fixing or adding content to pve part, you know, the part that drew most of us in the game. Adding pvp now feels like a spit in the eye. 

 

There still are places in current levels where you can run trough a wall and fall outside the map. There are still broken/useless warframe skills that desperately need fixing. There are people crashing all the god damn time and before update 9.8 they say the game ran perfectly for them. 

 

But please by all means throw all that effort away on some half assed pvp.

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Althix

Althix

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Cant wait to see the people QQing about an invisible loki using an Ogris and just dominating the 2v2 without any real way to retaliate.  That's the first thing I see happening when they officially release those maps.

there is hardly need for ogris. braton kills faster and safer. also loki is semi invisible but you can pick energy color to camouflage as much as possible.

Ash on the other hand is invisible, didn't tried him though. but overall your observation is correct one.

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Tsukinoki

Tsukinoki

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@Althix
Or a rhino that uses an Acrid + Roar. (The acrid in and of itself will be massively unbalancing if only one team has it)
They removed trinities invincibility so she wont be the sole top frame there.

Vauban with his Bastille will be another big one.  As will nova.  Because while the double damage wont be needed (you can see how many hits it takes to kill in the dojo arenas already) if they massively lower the damage weapons do then MPrime will be very powerful.

Though some frames will be next to useless, such as Nyx and Trinity will probably fall down into that with her loss of invulnerability.
No idea how they could even hope to rework Nyx to have any sort of usefulness in PvP.

Edited by Tsukinoki
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MXultra

MXultra

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But please by all means throw all that effort away on some half assed pvp.

 

Why so dramatic? PvE is still going to be 99% of this game. You think they are really making everyone stop working on PvE?

 

My point is to let them make a satisfactory 2v2 mode and then they can get back to PvE exclusively. If they make a bad PvP mode, people will keep wanting improvements.

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Tsukinoki

Tsukinoki

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@MXultra
And you dont seem to understand that even if they release a "satisfactory" 2v2 you'll still have people constantly spamming the forums for more and more and QQing everywhere that every single new thing added to the game breaks at least one of their PvP builds.  The forums would become a lot worse when that happens.

DE just needs to *completely* ignore the PvP crowd and just focus soley on PvE until they get it into a polished state.  Especially with their PS4 plans.

Edited by Tsukinoki
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-Kittens-

-Kittens-

Posted
Posted

 

There is a gang of extremely vocal (albeit inarticulate) forum members who have expressed misgivings about PvP. This post is an attempt to disarm their prejudices and ease tensions.
 
Things not to worry about:
 
-The main argument being repeated by the anti-PvP mafia is that it will split DE's focus which will lead to PvE content being released slower. This is irrational and here's why: PvP is not going to require significant content updates. No PvP-only content will ever HAVE to be made. They probably will make a few arenas, but in the future all they have to do is repurpose a tile from a PvE tileset. Most defense maps would make good 2v2 arenas.
 
-Balances to PvP will not have to effect PvE.
 
-PvP will not become so fun that no one plays PvE. This is a mini game. Maybe you binge on it with some friends at first, but soon it will be something to mix it up after a long day of farming. Or a way to kill a few minutes while you wait for a friend to finish their survival/defense mission.
 
Things to love:
 
-PvP will reveal new ways of understanding combat that lead to improvements in the game. For example: Data mined from PvP fights could go toward improving the Stalker's AI and abilities.
 
-Unforeseen synergies in 2v2 pairs could lead to more experimentation in PvE cells.
 
-More free game that you'll eventually play and end up liking and then pretend that you never hated it.
 
If we still can't learn to get along, maybe it's time for a PvP feedback forum.

 

 

 

PvP is bullsh!t and a very clear sign of not having enough content to engage players.

 

 

I will not entertain anything related to PvP, I will not spend a second or penny on supporting PvP.

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General_Krull

General_Krull

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Why so dramatic? PvE is still going to be 99% of this game. You think they are really making everyone stop working on PvE?

 

My point is to let them make a satisfactory 2v2 mode and then they can get back to PvE exclusively. If they make a bad PvP mode, people will keep wanting improvements.

My point is why even start making pvp before the core game is even close to being ready? There are so many game breaking bugs they should be focusing on right now. 

And lets consider the fact that they nerfed the "tank" frames just in time for pvp to hit. So in a way pvp already has affected pve in a negative way.

Edited by General_Krull
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Tsukinoki

Tsukinoki

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@General_Krull
And with that huge nerf I see Vauban sitting at the top of the charts in PvP.  His bastille can easily affect the entire opposite team and just hold them there while they are very quickly ripped to shred without any way of possibly fighting back.  And with stretch its area is huge.
So at this point I just wonder how far (or how long it will take for) PvP will affect PvE and if it will make bastille completely useless in both modes.

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MXultra

MXultra

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My point is why even start making pvp before the core game is even close to being ready?

 

Because the modes should develop independently. DE has tons of potential in PvE, they know this and are actively developing it. New tilesets, new enemies, new frames, new weapons, new modes, etc. Why have all of that polished before you start checking out a new possibility?

 

This is the Beta, it's the time to try out new things, redesign flawed concepts, risk pissing off your whiny fanbase. If the majority of players think PvP sucks and there is no clear way to improve it, then DE can scrap the idea and be able to say "we tried PvP in Beta and it didn't work".

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