Kitgun and Pax Feedback

[Traumtulpe]

The strongest Kitgun by far appears to be a slow Catchmoon with Pax Seeker. It's only weakness is against very high armor, which can be counteracted with Corrosive Projection or warframe abilities.

Less power but some utility has a medium to high speed Rattleguts with Pax Bolt. Allround good weapon, can strip armor and procs radiation - but a 50% chance on Pax Bolt is slightly annoying. Why not make it 100% like Pax Seeker?

Tombfinger, Gaze, Pax Charge and Pax Soar seem flawed. Specifically:

Tombfinger loses to much damage when build fast and the travel time is counterproductive to its purpose.

Gaze stats seem relatively weak, also multishot does not improve status for beam weapons. If you want to use Pax Charge, the best candidate is Gaze because beam weapons use 0.5 ammo per shot - effectively doubling the recharge rate compared to Rattleguts. But you probably don't want to use Pax Charge.

Pax Charge is great if you want to spend more time reloading than shooting. Literally. Some configurations I considered would have me spend 60% of the time reloading, this needs to be better. Compare it to the Cycron: It reloads 40 ammo per second and uses 0.5 ammo per shot - that's about 4 times as good as Pax Charge on Rattleguts, which reloads 20 per second and uses 1 ammo per shot.

Pax Soar... yeah. You could make this better, or people could just use some other Pax.

[Traumtulpe]

Let me suggest some improvements.

Pax Bolt: 100% chance.

Tombfinger: More damage for the faster variants, improved explosion.

Gaze: More status for the crit version and vice versa, to make this weapon good as a hybrid and to compensate for dysfunctional multishot on beam weapons.

Pax Charge: 40 ammo per second for Gaze and 60 per second for Rattleguts.

Pax Seeker: Scaling with dps instead of damage per shot.

Pax Soar: Shooting while aim gliding slightly pushes you upwards in addition to the other benefits (so it's at least cool).

[Traumtulpe]

So I compared the best possible Kitgun made with Gaze, build for maximum status and using Pax Charge to the Cycron - which requires mastery rank 8.

Turns out the Cycron deals about 40% more damage while the Kitgun causes 10% more status effects (relatively - meaning for every 10 procs the Cycron gets, the Kitgun would get 11).

The Cycron is clearly better... slightly less procs but deals 40% more damage.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Traumtulpe

[Talhe]

Tombfinger is a lot stronger than Catchmoon in 90% of situations, even without Pax Seeker

[Guest]

On 2018-12-06 at 10:58 AM, Traumtulpe said:

So I compared the best possible Kitgun made with Gaze, build for maximum status and using Pax Charge to the Cycron - which requires mastery rank 8.

Turns out the Cycron deals about 40% more damage while the Kitgun causes 10% more status effects (relatively - meaning for every 10 procs the Cycron gets, the Kitgun would get 11).

The Cycron is clearly better... slightly less procs but deals 40% more damage.

This is why you build Gaze for crit.

Cycron clearly outdamages a Status Gaze even without a riven. With a riven the Cycron is ... well.

[burem0n0]

On 2018-12-06 at 3:58 AM, Traumtulpe said:

So I compared the best possible Kitgun made with Gaze, build for maximum status and using Pax Charge to the Cycron - which requires mastery rank 8.

Turns out the Cycron deals about 40% more damage while the Kitgun causes 10% more status effects (relatively - meaning for every 10 procs the Cycron gets, the Kitgun would get 11).

The Cycron is clearly better... slightly less procs but deals 40% more damage.

Plus, Cycron has riven dispo 5 and Gaze only has 3.

Gaze is literally pointless to craft.

So is Rattleguts since Prisma Twin Gremlins is already stronger and also has riven dispo 5 vs 3.

[vector77]

6 hours ago, burem0n0 said:

Plus, Cycron has riven dispo 5 and Gaze only has 3.

Gaze is literally pointless to craft.

So is Rattleguts since Prisma Twin Gremlins is already stronger and also has riven dispo 5 vs 3.

Nope, Cycron has disposition of 3 (1.1 multiplier), while gaze has standard 1.0. Also cycron is a status weapon, but you can build gaze with very high crit. Rattleguts is hitscan unlike twin gremlins, it has default rad damage and you also can build it with different parts, so it is silly to only compare it to one weapon. Also why even mention rivens? Unless you have thousands of plat you won't get perfect rolls, so it is possible that you'll get a great riven for gaze and rattleguts, but only terrible rolls for gremlin and cycron. Not to mention that riven dispo can change and kitguns can also use arcanes.

[burem0n0]

Hmm, did they change it then? I remember Cycron having dispo 5 last time I checked.

Need thousands of plat to get perfect rolls on rivens? Are you kidding? Dont need any plat at all. Just need Kuva.

[vector77]

2 hours ago, burem0n0 said:

Need thousands of plat to get perfect rolls on rivens? Are you kidding? Dont need any plat at all. Just need Kuva.

I'm not, I've rolled enough rivens, the chance to get something good is tiny, the chance to get something close to perfect is almost zero. So if you want a specific riven for a specific weapon it is much cheaper and faster to buy it than to roll and hope for the best.  Of course if you just want something better than the standard mods it usually doesn't take many rolls if the dispo is high enough, but it is still rng, so even that can take a long time. Actually I would say perfect rolls probably don't even exist, since being perfect would imply the riven has not only 3 best possible stats, best possible negative, but also maximum possible numerical values on its stats. For gameplay it wouldn't matter if the multishot was 109% instead of 109.1%, but that would still make this riven tiny bit imperfect. Rivens are complete rng, in some cases I bet it is hard to get the riven you want even if you have thousands of plat to spare.