The Market. And Why, In Its Current State, Will Be Warframe's Downfall.

[Luminati07]

Thankyou everyone for the replies.

Giving this a quick bump, added a bunch of stuff to the OP.

Addresses some of the replies in the thread. Better than replying to everyone individually.

[MueR]

I agree with the OP. The platinum prices are through the roof. I'm fine with 20 for Forma and taters, the slot prices are fine too. Weapons and frames are just too darned expensive. I can afford it so can a few others here in the topic, but I am darn sure there's a much larger audience who have a limited budget for gaming. If someone is willing to pay $10, there should be things for them to buy. It should not be limited to a few formas. Broaden the market, not fence it off to any without a big gaming budget.

[WhiteNekophus]

Why the hell all of people still trying to say "Rofl, you just like to get everything at cheap price"?(Maybe some of them are not, well..)

 

 

C'mon, making those weapons and frames cheap won't just let you get them for nice price, it will let players buy more platinum.

 

Players buys lot more platinum = more DE's money.

 

Stop with the "rofl, u can just pay time and get them 4 free insted of buyin thos expensiv sh!t".

 

So if the price was lower you would buy all the U10 items for platinum, THEN go play the derelict missions that drop that stuff to see what it is like?  You are a special kind of stupid and criticizing any market model is pretty well beyond your comprehension.

I can't agree with your opinion, because it looks like stupid.

 

I think you never like playing same story time for 2 times..... Yeah, I don't dislike that opinion, but I hate a people like you.

[Wahooo]

The game is in BETA.  What that means is they want people to play as much of the content as possible.  What THAT means is if people skip content, like repeated boss runs to farm a frame, just by buying it THEY GET NO FEED BACK AND CANNOT IMPROVE THE GAME.

 

I don't have a crystal ball so I don't know what they will be doing or their thoughts are going to be for release but it isn't about how *I* feel the market needs to be or the prices are ok. 

 

IF I THOUGHT THE MAIN WAY TO GET WEAPONS AND FRAMES WAS TO PURCHASE THEM I WOULD QUIT THE GAME.  REGARDLESS OF THEIR CURRENT PRICE. AT THEIR CURRENT PRICE I MIGHT COMPLAIN THEN QUIT.

 

Look you can either assume DE knows what they are doing in regards to the market prices or you don't.  Many of you don't, I do.

So, if I assume they DO know what they are doing then I want to figure out the reason for the scaling of the prices.  And look what you see. The new frames/weapons that are unlocked with newer content that needs more feedback and possible more bugs is priced higher, discouraging purchase and encouraging the player base to play those missions.

The weapon/frame slots that are needed to continue to gather free stuff and progress in the game and explore new content is VERY cheap.  Cosmetics are a bit in the middle (the real money maker.)

The 3 starter frames are some of the cheapest to buy, and higher levels to farm.  Why would that be?  Because if you don't like your choice of starter frame for a few plat you can get another of the other starter frames and continue.  This way they are still encouraging people to play the game.

 

Maybe after Beta is done, and comes release and they just want people to play their game rather than NEED people to play and give feedback more of the frames come back down in price to the level the 3 starter frames are.  Maybe not.

 

Just to assume that DE doesn't know what they are doing with the market prices then go and *@##$ and moan about having to pay a high price for something you can get for free (repeatedly) AND make predictions about how their market is going to somehow be the downfall of the game... LOL 

Armchair economists.  Its silly.  If you don't like the price don't buy it, you can still get it by other means you know.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

 

"The game is in BETA.  What that means is they want people to play as much of the content as possible.  What THAT means is if people skip content, like repeated boss runs to farm a frame, just by buying it THEY GET NO FEED BACK AND CANNOT IMPROVE THE GAME."

They WILL get feedback, because not everyone will buy all the weapons/frames, and even if they do, good for DE! They could finally hire a QA team to do some of the bug testing/find obvious problems. And even if everyone buys the weapons/frames, it's not like they'll just stop playing. They'll play BECAUSE they have these new weapons.

 

"I don't have a crystal ball so I don't know what they will be doing or their thoughts are going to be for release but it isn't about how *I* feel the market needs to be or the prices are ok."

It's not about how well they are doing now (clearly they're doing ok, they haven't shut down WF yet) BUT they could be doing better.

 

"IF I THOUGHT THE MAIN WAY TO GET WEAPONS AND FRAMES WAS TO PURCHASE THEM I WOULD QUIT THE GAME.  REGARDLESS OF THEIR CURRENT PRICE. AT THEIR CURRENT PRICE I MIGHT COMPLAIN THEN QUIT."

That's cool, but irrelevant. There does not need to be one BEST way to get weapons. Farming for weapons is a good method, but so should buying them. What I mean by this is, not being gouged for $15 for a weapon or frame.

 

"Look you can either assume DE knows what they are doing in regards to the market prices or you don't.  Many of you don't, I do."

This is DE's first F2P game. They DON'T know what they're doing very well, they're learning as they go, and (I assume) taking lessons from other games on what to do/not to do

 

"So, if I assume they DO know what they are doing then I want to figure out the reason for the scaling of the prices.  And look what you see. The new frames/weapons that are unlocked with newer content that needs more feedback and possible more bugs is priced higher, discouraging purchase and encouraging the player base to play those missions.

The weapon/frame slots that are needed to continue to gather free stuff and progress in the game and explore new content is VERY cheap.  Cosmetics are a bit in the middle (the real money maker.)"

 

Your first assumption is wrong, therefore this is wrong. Also, ONE frame is unlocked from newer content, all the other weapons are from older content, so that's wrong about this too. ONE. FRAME. The weapons are mostly those that use materials, and no material is only found in the OD (outside of mutagen, but that might be a bug)

 

"The 3 starter frames are some of the cheapest to buy, and higher levels to farm.  Why would that be?  Because if you don't like your choice of starter frame for a few plat you can get another of the other starter frames and continue.  This way they are still encouraging people to play the game."

I agree, the start frames ARE nice and cheap, In fact, I bought my loki, probably gonna buy mag (I think it's mag that's the other 75 plat frame) because it saves me enough time, at a nice price. See how that works? Good prices encourage buying. And you know what's crazy that you don't understand? I'M STILL GONNA PLAY. Why? Because otherwise, what was the point of picking up weapons/frames from the store?

 

"Maybe after Beta is done, and comes release and they just want people to play their game rather than NEED people to play and give feedback more of the frames come back down in price to the level the 3 starter frames are.  Maybe not."

Or, they could properly rework the market while it's "easy" and they have relatively few weapons/frames (compared to when they release) And, now they most need money. While they're still expanding, growing, trying to keep their game going (i.e. open beta)

 

 

"Just to assume that DE doesn't know what they are doing with the market prices then go and $#*(@ and moan about having to pay a high price for something you can get for free (repeatedly) AND make predictions about how their market is going to somehow be the downfall of the game... LOL"

Again, because you can't understand this, I'll type it slowly. and in big letters IT. DOESN'T. MATTER. IF. YOU. CAN. GET. IT. FOR. FREE. We care about the CASH MARKET COST. Got it? Good. Don't got it? Reread it. The problem is the cash cost. Not how you can get it.

 

"Armchair economists.  Its silly.  If you don't like the price don't buy it, you can still get it by other means you know."

HA. "If you see a problem, just ignore it!" is what this boils down to. Saying "Just don't buy it" is stupid. It's FAR better to give feedback and explain why the prices are a problem. As for "armchair economists" is a funny kind of insult, because you include yourself in that, I mean, you're trying to argue why the prices are fine.

[PettiTheYeti]

I'll just say this.. Friday afternoon I had about 1400 plats. Saturday morning, I had 5 plats. That's around $130 spent on just the U10 stuff.

 

I have a pretty disposable income right now, so do I really care that I spent that much? Not really. Should the U10 gear available in the market be worth over $100? Hell no. It really shouldn't even be worth $50.

 

If I could give OP a +8531, I would. Market prices are flat out ridiculous. I've heard on many occasions "Yeah, I would definitely buy X if it didn't cost so much". If the market demand is there, match the prices to the demand, not alienate the players who can't, or don't want to, stretch their wallets for things that cost 10, 15, 30 dollars a piece.

Edited September 16, 2013 by PettiTheYeti

[Wahooo]

"Armchair economists.  Its silly.  If you don't like the price don't buy it, you can still get it by other means you know."

HA. "If you see a problem, just ignore it!" is what this boils down to. Saying "Just don't buy it" is stupid. It's FAR better to give feedback and explain why the prices are a problem. As for "armchair economists" is a funny kind of insult, because you include yourself in that, I mean, you're trying to argue why the prices are fine.

But i'm not the one trying to tell DE how to run their market and talking about it like I have some sort of experience they don't have on how a f2p market SHOULD be run.  You are.

 

I think DE knows what they are doing.  You think because you disagree with one aspect of their market they don't know what they are doing... but based on what experience?  Have you personally developed a free to play game?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

 

"But i'm not the one trying to tell DE how to run their market and talking about it like I have some sort of experience they don't have on how a f2p market SHOULD be run.  You are."

But you ARE telling DE how to run their market (i.e. don't change anything).

 

"I think DE knows what they are doing."

Even though DE has said they've never made a F2P game before, so they don't know much about it? MAN is that some kinda blind and dumb faith. I believe DE will LEARN how to run a F2P, but they can only do it with feedback, WHICH they've been very good at listening to.

 

"You think because you disagree with one aspect of their market they don't know what they are doing..."

Again, no. This is DE's first F2P. F2Ps are MUCH different than any other type of game because of how they work obviously. That, and DE has stated that they DON'T know what they're doing really (not saying they know nothing about what they're doing) because they haven't ever made a F2P before.

 

"but based on what experience?  Have you personally developed a free to play game?"

I don't need to have dev'd a F2P to understand what's overpriced, and how overpriced items can hurt the game. I've played MANY F2Ps, and those with bad prices generally die off or are doing MUCH worse than they could be.

Edited September 16, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Silvershadow66]

I think you might have never been in a MMO that is not FPS.

 

That's funny. Warframe and WoT are 2 of the 3 multiplayer FPS games that I have played for longer than a couple of weeks in almost 2 decades, before that the last FPS I spent a lot of time on was Quake (the original one). I play RPGs and Strategy games mostly, I only got into this game after a friend gave me Borderlands 2 as a gift.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[Inberun]

Don't forget about Resource Prices

[K0ZURE]

I've spent $30 for 580 platinum and i still have 260 left after around 600 hours of playtime.

I have all frames, i only keep the frame that i like, same thing with weapons.

Almost everything on the market are easy to get if you just spend a little time farming for it.

 

Do i think the market price is too high? yes, especially the color pack.

Do i care? not really, i can get everything by playing the game and i only use my platinum for the weapon and frame slots.

 

Those prices are intended for the player who wants to take a shortcut, so a long as they are buying them DE will keep selling them,

Let's imagine DE will take your advise and lower the prices. Sure more people will spend money on the game but i'm pretty sure there are a lot people like me who would rather farm for stuff.

What happen "IF" they don't make as much income as they used too? They're going to lower the drop rate to get more people to use the micro transaction. And that's just going to anger a lot of players and make them quit playing. Low community = a dying/a dead game.

Just be thankful there are people who support DE by spending money on micro transaction.

 

It's hard too find the balance in this micro transaction thing and i hope DE will find it without sacrificing people who want to play for free.

 

 

 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Don't forget about Resource Prices

Oh yeah, very true. 10 plat for one rare resource, 15 for ONE research mat, i.e. fieldron SAMPLE.

[__Kanade__]

FTFY

Edit: I do agree with you. The prices are high, but that is the cost of convenience. There is no true need to spend platinum on any of these things.

Obviously everything in the game can be crafted except for color pallets and the scarves. But not all of us have that kinda time to farm, grind, and craft our way to said items and frames.

 

Just because everything is 'free' doesn't mean you should be ignoring their platinum prices. Cost of convenience treads heavily on the current prices, especially for the weapons, now we have a weapon that is 10 platinum less than the games most expensive frames.

 

 

Who is going to pay 265 plat for one stupid weapon? I'm sure those who don't have the time to farm resources left and right still won't buy such a ridiculously over priced weapon.

Edited September 16, 2013 by __Kanade__

[ZukaBazuka]

If you wanna look at a successful MICRO transaction shop go and look at TF2. All weapons cost under 10 dollar. Some even cost 0.65€. Its a game that offer so many more weapons and stuff yet they are far cheaper than anything Warframe has to offer. Valve said that they where confused how well it sold. If anything it should show companies you do not have to overcharge just to get money.

 

We are not asking for stuff to be super cheap but just lower the prices off weapons to a reasonable level. If someone who spends 250€ and can't buy everything in the game it is obvious the game has some flaws.

 

In tribes Ascend you can buy every unlock for around 30€ I think. No need to farm that stuff as free to play.

 

 

 

So what does this game has to lose when people STILL HAVE TO LEVEL THE STUFF THEY BOUGHT in order to have fun with it. If I bought something I would damn well use it the same day. I wouldn't buy everything in the shop and then go "F*** it I don't wanna play it anymore because I got everything already"

[eXXaXion]

Soma - 265 Platinum   <---- ARE YOU KIDDING?

So Soma being 265 is a problem but Hind at 225 is fine? 

Soma is, as far as I tested it (leveled to 30x3), the best bullet based assault rifle in the game, not even close.

Hind is just utter garbage. Build, leveled, sold and never really used it.

I personally don't think any weapon should be more than 200.

But of the weapons you can buy for platinum, Soma is one of, if not, the best.

I mean in general the pricing is just bad, but let's not get stuck with particular weapons here.

DE should do the math on the average dps of the weapons and then calculate the price mathematically exact.

Maybe make them a bit more expensive, when they're new. That's fair.

If they are going to make it expensive, at least adjust the prices to make sense in comparison.

[eksby]

That's funny. Warframe and WoT are 2 of the 3 multiplayer FPS games that I have played for longer than a couple of weeks in almost 2 decades, before that the last FPS I spent a lot of time on was Quake (the original one). I play RPGs and Strategy games mostly, I only got into this game after a friend gave me Borderlands 2 as a gift.

So how many F2P MMORPGs have you played? From your argument, it sounded like you have not played very many, especially with the bit about players paying $15 every few months or so. Almost every week or two weeks, some MMORPGs churn out some new limited edition shop item and many, many people buy them. That's way more than $15 once every few months.

 

 

If you wanna look at a successful MICRO transaction shop go and look at TF2. All weapons cost under 10 dollar. Some even cost 0.65€. Its a game that offer so many more weapons and stuff yet they are far cheaper than anything Warframe has to offer. Valve said that they where confused how well it sold. If anything it should show companies you do not have to overcharge just to get money.

 

We are not asking for stuff to be super cheap but just lower the prices off weapons to a reasonable level. If someone who spends 250€ and can't buy everything in the game it is obvious the game has some flaws.

 

In tribes Ascend you can buy every unlock for around 30€ I think. No need to farm that stuff as free to play.

 

 

 

So what does this game has to lose when people STILL HAVE TO LEVEL THE STUFF THEY BOUGHT in order to have fun with it. If I bought something I would damn well use it the same day. I wouldn't buy everything in the shop and then go "F*** it I don't wanna play it anymore because I got everything already"

 

Definitely agree with that last part. I bought Nova because I was extremely frustrated after playing for 20 hours and still unable to get the materials to make a warframe because the materials I needed were on planets I had not unlocked yet (and was having trouble unlocking). Now I've played for 70 or so hours, and I've used Nova almost exclusively since I got her. Forma'd her three times, and looking forward to forma-ing her a fourth. I'd even go as far as to say I've played the game more since I got her because then the game became more fun to me.

 

Basically, not everyone plays to farm. Some people just like to kill things and have fun without grinding toward a goal. Right now all I'm working on is unlocking all the planets, not farm some weapon or warframe. I have what I want, but the game is still fun to play.

Edited September 16, 2013 by kuliise

[BPoole]

The prices are pretty whack. I would actually buy more items if they weren't so expensive. I pretty much just buy weapons/frame slots, potatoes, and Forma

[Luminati07]

So Soma being 265 is a problem but Hind at 225 is fine? 

Uh, where did I say 225 plat for the Hind was fine?

The whole point of my OP was that all the prices are completely ridiculous.

 

The Soma being 265 just added insult to injury.

[AkosAmun]

I have a lot of plat due to the founders pack I got back in march, but I spend so much time NOT buying anything with it because everything is so costly. I KNOW they are coming out with new stuff, so I wait to see what it will be instead of buying anything now. This hurts DE, because while I have already paid for my plat, I haven't burned through it yet and so I have not bought any more. I have instead put my nose to the grindstone and collected every frame, and weapons that I find interesting or that I get awarded with for doing events. If things were cheaper I'd be much more inclined to actually buy them instead of use the nexus app to wake up at 3am to get a helmet or weapon or reactor or catalyst. And then everything is getting more and more tedious. I don't think they know what to do besides make everything take longer to accomplish. Now you have to by key bps and then run missions to find navs and build the keys to go to the ONLY place with mutagen samples and golem navs to fight the golem to maybe get the drop you need to build the--- wait guess what, i have to go to work, and sleep sometimes, so this is going to take all month. As it stands I'll be holding my plat until DE goes under, heaven forbid, because I can't be sure that some future item or warframe won't outweigh the present selection, and I don't want to use up what plat i have.

[Luminati07]

I have a lot of plat due to the founders pack I got back in march, but I spend so much time NOT buying anything with it because everything is so costly. I KNOW they are coming out with new stuff, so I wait to see what it will be instead of buying anything now. This hurts DE, because while I have already paid for my plat, I haven't burned through it yet and so I have not bought any more. I have instead put my nose to the grindstone and collected every frame, and weapons that I find interesting or that I get awarded with for doing events. If things were cheaper I'd be much more inclined to actually buy them instead of use the nexus app to wake up at 3am to get a helmet or weapon or reactor or catalyst. And then everything is getting more and more tedious. I don't think they know what to do besides make everything take longer to accomplish. Now you have to by key bps and then run missions to find navs and build the keys to go to the ONLY place with mutagen samples and golem navs to fight the golem to maybe get the drop you need to build the--- wait guess what, i have to go to work, and sleep sometimes, so this is going to take all month. As it stands I'll be holding my plat until DE goes under, heaven forbid, because I can't be sure that some future item or warframe won't outweigh the present selection, and I don't want to use up what plat i have.

Quoting this for truth.

"but I spend so much time NOT buying anything with it because everything is so costly"

 

It's a shame they already got your money.

It'd be a veerry different story if it was pay as you buy. 

 

Apologies for Nekros'ing this thread. But, it's still 100% relevant.

Until the market is fixed, threads like this will always be relevant.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Nugget_

[Brahmastra]

Im not sure what to think of the market. It's like DE does not want you to buy those items, except for the necessary stuff such as: catalyst, reactor, forma, additional colors - they are pretty cheap IMO.

 

But.. not being able to buy items makes the game more grindy, making the guns and frames too cheap will lower the "rush option" cost significantly or total useless. Buying resources for plat. will have to be taken out aswell.

 

One thing leads to another and before you know the whole market and platinum buy page needs an overhaul.

If you ask me it is probably a good idea to decrease plat prices on weapons and frames.

[Tonza94]

This doesn't really bother me because I never buy weapons, I craft them.

[yatin_117]

dude you don't need to buy the new weapons ever heard of a bp you can use little money cause all you need is a little plat for slots, potatoes, forma etc.

you only have to use small amounts of money for that and DE makes reasonable prices

 

edit:and colour packs and other items are easy to attain with little money or none

Edited September 23, 2013 by yatin_117

[KvotheTheArcane1]

dude you don't need to buy the new weapons ever heard of a bp you can use little money cause all you need is a little plat for slots, potatoes, forma etc.

you only have to use small amounts of money for that and DE makes reasonable prices

 

edit:and colour packs and other items are easy to attain with little money or none

“But you can get everything for free!”

It doesn’t matter, overpriced is overpriced, no matter how else you can get it. Just because you can work for something, doesn’t justify/fix it’s price tag.

 

For example, if gas was a $100 a gallon, that would be massively overpriced, “But you could just refine your own gas, so the price is fine!” (see how it sounds silly?)

 

Point is: Overpriced is overpriced, and the weapon/frame prices aren't reasonable overall.

[Silvershadow66]

So how many F2P MMORPGs have you played? From your argument, it sounded like you have not played very many, especially with the bit about players paying $15 every few months or so. Almost every week or two weeks, some MMORPGs churn out some new limited edition shop item and many, many people buy them. That's way more than $15 once every few months.

 

Many. The ones that I currently still play are World of Tanks (now there is a grind), Star Trek Online, Neverwinter, March of War, MechWarrior Online. There are a lot I have played for a while then stopped, just this year there would be Aion, Ragnarok 2 Online, DC Universe Online, War Thunder.

 

And some people don't buy new items every month. The majority of people who spend money will buy such things now and then.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Silvershadow66