Wahooo Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 The fact that things can be acquired for free means sweet F*** all (excuse my language). People use that argument as if it just gives a pass for the horrible prices, which it does not. And should not. It's not a matter of what "needs" money to obtain. It's a matter of simply unreasonable pricing. That it is free has everything to do with it. It means if you don't like the price then the price doesn't matter because you don't need to pay it, if it were 2 plat or 200. People keep giving examples of what they can get on steam for $15 dollars and what they get here for $15 dollars, but the same stuff they are saying costs $15 dollars in WF is attainable free through game play. How is that not 100% relevant? Whatever you are going to say is an unreasonable cost for something that you use in this game I will counter with I got it, or can get it free. It costs NOTHING, so to me the platinum price is completely irrelevant, I simply won't pay it. Platinum pricing becomes a non-issue completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZukaBazuka Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 That it is free has everything to do with it. It means if you don't like the price then the price doesn't matter because you don't need to pay it, if it were 2 plat or 200. People keep giving examples of what they can get on steam for $15 dollars and what they get here for $15 dollars, but the same stuff they are saying costs $15 dollars in WF is attainable free through game play. How is that not 100% relevant? Whatever you are going to say is an unreasonable cost for something that you use in this game I will counter with I got it, or can get it free. It costs NOTHING, so to me the platinum price is completely irrelevant, I simply won't pay it. Platinum pricing becomes a non-issue completely. Why would I spend 15$ on a weapon when I can spend that cash on a new game and just farm the weapon in Warframe? Get to try an entire new game and the weapon is done within 12hrs. See how they lost money here? Something they actually want to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahooo Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Why would I spend 15$ on a weapon when I can spend that cash on a new game and just farm the weapon in Warframe? Get to try an entire new game and the weapon is done within 12hrs. See how they lost money here? Something they actually want to get. Everyone keeps coming in to these threads like they WF's financial advisers. Maybe, at this point in the game they would like a majority of the people playing to do just that when it comes to frames and weapons. I'm pretty sure DE knows what is and is not selling on the market. I'm sure they have #'s in their head about how much, of what, they would like to see sell. If the sales are outta whack from what they would like to see then they would change it. If they wanted everyone to buy frames and weapons with plat I would think a quick skim of the numbers would show relatively poor sales numbers and they would change it. I don't know why it is such a hard concept to understand the stuff on the market they really want people to spend plat on is fairly reasonably priced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakim0n0 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Earlier this week I bought Max Payne, Max Payne 2, and Max Payne 3 on Amazon for $15. I could have spent that same amount on Warframe and gotten one Warframe, or one weapon. There is a problem with this picture. I just got 170 plat for $3.60... + 6 other games including dark sector, space pirates and zombies... couple other things. I got a free weapon skin for signing up with IAH I got a 75% off cupon logging into the game once. I do agree that normally priced plat is kinda high; but if you look around and wait for a deal you can get them. P.S. seriously... stop necroing this thread people. Edited October 31, 2013 by Bakim0n0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Lets not forgot how you can barely buy anything for credits anymore these days What are you talking about? about 99% of the game is purchasable via credits... the other 1% is the extreme cosmetics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakim0n0 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 What are you talking about? about 99% of the game is purchasable via credits... the other 1% is the extreme cosmetics... Vauban Nova Nekros Seer All the prime gear and frames Miter bunches more stuff I'm missing... (all the alert drops for example) Not everything can be bought with credits but rather by going out and finding the parts / bp's. (maybe the main frame BP's are in the market) You can still get everything but slots and some cosmetic stuff without paying a cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 P.S. seriously... stop necroing this thread people. The rare situations that allow workarounds to the marketplace's issues and the age of this thread do not make its point any less valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar-Sandwich Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Well I think that those people who don't have enough patience to just make the weapons in the foundry will complain for complaining sake. This game is based off of grinding, get to it and the only things you'll have to look at in the market are the blueprints for the weapons and warframes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakim0n0 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) The rare situations that allow workarounds to the marketplace's issues and the age of this thread do not make its point any less valid. They are rare? Could've fooled me. I've seen a new deal to get plat at less than half price every week or two. And I'm not trying to invalidate the argument just pointing out it's not nearly as bad as the OP has painted it to be... in fact it's pretty much the norm... look at all the other f2p games out there... a few of them are closer to what the OP describes but most of them are just like warframe. Because you feel the post has a point doesn't give justification to consistantly necro a thread. (which is a forum rule violation btw) Edited November 1, 2013 by Bakim0n0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pisirk Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 FTFY Edit: I do agree with you. The prices are high, but that is the cost of convenience. There is no true need to spend platinum on any of these things. False, he needs to spend platinum in-order to skip the beyond bearable grind. I would agree with you if the gameplay isn't extremely repetitive and if it doesn't take forever to get anything in this game. Sure they are using the same mechanics as many other free to play games but how far can you go to make a game so inconvenient that it still makes sense to say "buy for convenience". From the casual player's perspective this game doesn't cater to them as it's hard to get the items playing normally and hard to buy into the expensive platinum. Simply put, it's inconvenient to buy for convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyfle Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) Warframe is a game that is not pay2win (or since this is a PvE game, pay2outmatch). Its market is to sell conveniences (or you can call it necessities if you were so foolish to buy a cosmetic with your first free plat). Most of us are unwilling to pay so much for weapons and frames, that's where things like cosmetics, potatoes, and slots come in. The majority will buy the stuff that makes things convenient. Then at the top we will have people dishing out a load of cash for the convenience of getting a frame or weapon without farming. It is possible that reducing the prices could increase sales, but how far should that decrease be? Should warframes be five bucks a pop? Should a catalyst be one dollar? Isn't that why DE put in coupons? The purpose of the coupon is to allow people to buy the higher stuff while paying the same amount. It entices the player. Those who do not care enough to wait for a coupon will just pay. Reduce prices too much and DE loses revenue. Perhaps we should look at games like League of Legends or Team Fortress 2 instead of mansions and snickers. Edited November 1, 2013 by Scyfle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerZ1 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 That it is free has everything to do with it. It means if you don't like the price then the price doesn't matter because you don't need to pay it, if it were 2 plat or 200. People keep giving examples of what they can get on steam for $15 dollars and what they get here for $15 dollars, but the same stuff they are saying costs $15 dollars in WF is attainable free through game play. How is that not 100% relevant? Whatever you are going to say is an unreasonable cost for something that you use in this game I will counter with I got it, or can get it free. It costs NOTHING, so to me the platinum price is completely irrelevant, I simply won't pay it. Platinum pricing becomes a non-issue completely. I do hope you see the problem with this... For this game to exist and be financially viable, people need to purchase stuff. I'll give you an example: I started playing WF 2 months ago, ever since I started I wanted a Vauban. Waiting for alerts was tedious so I figured I'll just buy enough plat for it, went to the market, saw the price and said HECK NO! I did not pay, I waited enough and got my Vauban in the recent event. This is a problem. The same one Nugget was trying to convey. If the price was more reasonable, I would simply buy it. I'd probably buy a Nova as well after farming Europa for so long yielded nothing. But I didn't, because the price was simply unreasonable in my mind. I didn't buy these objects because the price just didn't sit right and I knew I could get em for free, as tedious as it is. And so I'm guessing lots of others didn't as well. This is money down the drain for DE and it's something they can't afford. For people to buy stuff and keep this franchise viable, the prices must be worth it. As long as they're not this game is destined for failure, it simply won't make sense, financially, to keep it running. I know it's great for you, but try to look at it from a financial point of view and you'll see the problem with what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahooo Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 This is a problem. The same one Nugget was trying to convey. If the price was more reasonable, I would simply buy it. I'd probably buy a Nova as well after farming Europa for so long yielded nothing. But I didn't, because the price was simply unreasonable in my mind. I didn't buy these objects because the price just didn't sit right and I knew I could get em for free, as tedious as it is. And so I'm guessing lots of others didn't as well. This is money down the drain for DE and it's something they can't afford. For people to buy stuff and keep this franchise viable, the prices must be worth it. As long as they're not this game is destined for failure, it simply won't make sense, financially, to keep it running. I know it's great for you, but try to look at it from a financial point of view and you'll see the problem with what you said. Is it really a problem? From my perspective the only market problem is that there is not enough cheap stuff to by to cusomize the frames and weapons we grind for. My personal feeling about the market and DE's thoughts is that they feel that what people work for they will feel more attached to and play longer, vs. just buying it. That said I believe there needs to be a money sink on customization and skins. If DE is having money problems they will need to solve it, but people who want to buy stuff constantly using DE's income and buisness as an excuse is tired. The hardest to farm frames and weapons in this game are the primes that aren't even available on the market. Everything else is pretty easy to get, especially sine U10 and the guaranteed BP drop at the end of the boss run. We don't know their finacials, that whole base for an argument needs to go away. But that leaves simply "I don't want to farm it, but buying it is too expensive." Well... tough luck I guess. I want extra leg room on air flights but first class is too expensive. I agree the plat price on frames and weapons is stupid high. I would be willing to bet DE knows this. I would also bet that what this says to me? DE would rather you play the game and earn and build those items. Then spend money on potatoes and slots and colors and alt helms, and scarves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahooo Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) Because you feel the post has a point doesn't give justification to consistantly necro a thread. (which is a forum rule violation btw) Well, to be fair the OP is not the one to necro the thread, he just appreciated it. As for the person that did, it is called for since the market hasn't changed and the complaint (though I disagree with it and will counter the arguement) is still valid. Finding this thread and reviving it is probably better than creating a new one. Edited November 1, 2013 by Wahooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oizen Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 You realize that if you buy anything from the shop, you're essentially ruining the game for yourself. I mean this entire game is about Farming. You bought a weapon, great, what do you do with it?Use it to farm WARFARM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temfist Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) well, this is an interesting topic, because if you consider that people are complaining about prices being too high, it's because they want to buy it, but aren't willing to spend a lot of money on it, because it's not worth it's pricing to them.... that said, they provide a decent argument, if things were cheaper, they would buy more. DE's should consider this in the pricing of gear, weapons and frames, and how often they do sales. Currently, I've only bought 2 frames, Loki and Volt, because collectively, you can get both of them for $10.00 and still buy an Orokin Catalyst or additional Warframe Slot. this saves you a lot of playing time, like, a lot. I considered it worth it. I also got 3 new frame slots in total, with two pre supercharged frames. thats a bargain if you ask me "3 Warframe Slots (60 plat) + 2 Orokin Reactors (40 plat) + Loki + Volt (only cost 75 plat each, other frames costing at least 170 with a potatoe and slot) all for only 170 plat, practically your getting 2 for the price of 1. that means, watered down/rounded up a frame is worth around 150 plat (you are saving on around 20 plat with the inclusion of a potatoe and slot) and yet, we get Volt, Excalbur, and Loki for only 60 or so (if you assume your saving 15 on plat with the potatoe and slot) that means if you could just buy the frame, non potatoed, no slot, you could probably buy it for a little under 5 dollars. This is a realistic price for a starting frame IMO, cause in other F2P games, you can buy a character that would normally take you about a week or two of consecutive play for the same kinda price, around 5 dollars. now we could go off on a huge tangent about what proper price ranges are, there are other threads for that already, but I'm just bringing up this as a point. There are a lot of players willing to put "small amounts" of money in at a time, but they draw a line, and aren't willing to cross it unless they really feel like they are getting a deal. While the DE's might be making money off of big spenders, the players that usually pay for the bulk of the income the company recieves, all of the little spenders add up, and it's been proven that if a player invests money into a game, it becomes easier for them to do so again in the future. Therefore, it is more profitable to "ease" players into spending money, anyway, I have no interest in ever buying a lot of the items on the Market Place....ever....simple price adjustments could change that, but....well....here we are talking about it... Edited November 1, 2013 by Temphis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkirin Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) I'll go on record on saying that I don't normally care for Extra Credits. That being said, I'd normally agree on the issue of weapons...If the cost weren't so easy to get around for an explicit majority of those weapons. Those higher prices place a value and incentive on your time spent in the game, and the clear message from DE is that they would rather see you playing their game. You'll also recognize this in the extremely low point of other costs (slots/catalysts/etc) that are meant to accommodate new players with a modest stipend to begin the game with. They've even recently made the acquisition of Warframes even easier with a guaranteed drop with every boss. I've not bought a single weapon in this game and the majority of my platinum is just gathering dust, to be honest. There are only a few things on the market that are placed within impulse-buy range and that is where the income focus is: Enhancing the experience. Enhancing the experience is worthwhile and is priced toward people who have paid none/little into the game. Skipping content will cost you. Considering the trend of most games to weight heavily toward players with more money, I'm actually glad to see the focus of the market where it is, given the alternatives. Edited November 1, 2013 by Alkirin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgest Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Bumping for great Justice, DE need's to make serious economic changes or this game will die. To me the 2 most important items can not be directly obtained via "farming" and is a sort of pay-wall if/when they add REAL endgame content. Forma and potatoes. The only way to obtain Frame/weapon Catalysts are via the alert system which is random and their chances have significantly decreased since DE has added so much Junk to the supposedly "random" software system they run. Forma can be obtained via farming defense/survival missions and obtaining void keys and then hoping your void mission reward is a forma. All clan tech weapons require it to build and several weapons require them to be competitive. Both are MASSIVE time sinks to obtain without platinum and no one can justify this. If real endgame content is added in the current system every frame/weapon will need to be Potato'd/form'd to compete. that means the majority of the player base (i.e. broke/low income/students/kids) will not be able to see this content due to ensuing elitism(if you don't have X frame with X weapon i don't want you in my group) and will quit the game. Not to mention the stupidity of charging real money for inventory slots, adds up to be decently expensive for a Free 2 Play hack'n slash. DE has refused to address the issue when asked about it in the Live streams, and since you cannot create topics in Design council, this is the last and really only hope to get this serious issue addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainer772 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 If it didn't work, DE would change it. If it worked, DE wouldn't change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminati07 Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 If it didn't work, DE would change it. If it worked, DE wouldn't change it. There are multiple examples of that being completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainer772 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 There are multiple examples of that being completely wrong. Please cite them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminati07 Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 Please cite them. Pick one. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/117870-9000-words-of-feedback-formerly-known-as-the-bitter-thread/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvershadow66 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Now, what is more worthwhile, a game that can give me upwards of 200+ hours of playtime, or enough platinum to buy three Warframes? Again, it's not a fair comparison, but that doesn't change the fact that the value to money ratio is utter garbage. How much time would you spend playing those 3 warframes? 34% of my 229 hours has been spent using the Frost that I bought when a 50% discount came up. That's more play than many new games give me for less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulEchelon Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) I'll go on record on saying that I don't normally care for Extra Credits. That being said, I'd normally agree on the issue of weapons...If the cost weren't so easy to get around for an explicit majority of those weapons. Those higher prices place a value and incentive on your time spent in the game, and the clear message from DE is that they would rather see you playing their game. You'll also recognize this in the extremely low point of other costs (slots/catalysts/etc) that are meant to accommodate new players with a modest stipend to begin the game with. They've even recently made the acquisition of Warframes even easier with a guaranteed drop with every boss. I've not bought a single weapon in this game and the majority of my platinum is just gathering dust, to be honest. There are only a few things on the market that are placed within impulse-buy range and that is where the income focus is: Enhancing the experience. Enhancing the experience is worthwhile and is priced toward people who have paid none/little into the game. Skipping content will cost you. Considering the trend of most games to weight heavily toward players with more money, I'm actually glad to see the focus of the market where it is, given the alternatives. This guy nailed it. I said somewhat of the same thing on Page 10, but it fell on deaf ears from the looks of it. I'll repost, since it pretty much agrees with this post as well - just worded differently. Notice how the main things that cost the highest in the marketplace are also things you can craft/farm: Weapons and Warframes. Whereas items that can't be farmed cost far less. Alt helms are in the middle because the only way you can get them for "free" is through alerts. There's a reason why they did it this way. The prices for farmable equipment is so high because they're targetting a particular audience with them. That audience is the people with jobs and money. Such people usually don't have enough time on their hands to farm certain items and materials. Thus, they check the marketplace and nab a few weapons, warframes, or materials from there, because for one reason or another they feel they don't have time to farm them normally. The rest of the prices on the other hand, seem oddly cheap. This is because these items are targetted toward everyone, including people with time on their hands. Most of these items are cosmetic, or for convenience. The fact of the matter, is that every single weapon or warframe in the game can be crafted and farmed. People with alot of time on their hands happily do so, and balk at how much they cost on the market. DE did this on purpose - these people are the backbone for the game. They continue to play for long periods of time farming these items and equipment. That means a larger playerbase and a ton of people constantly playing instead of people like our "rich" players only logging in for a few moments at a time thanks to their busy schedules. It's hard to see what I'm talking about here, I know. It may not make much sense, but in the grand scheme of things...this particular system works. It gives incentive to the more "Well off" players to purchase items, while giving incentive to the more "Lots of time on my hands" players to farm it out and stay in game for long periods of time. If the prices were low, more people would buy these items, sure. But those same people will be angrily posting about how they have everything already and there's nothing to do. Edited November 1, 2013 by SoulEchelon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zurkr Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Not going to bother reading 12 pages of this thread cause it's a ridiculous topic. That having been said, here we go: Name ONE item that is for sale for platinum (AND not for sale in BP form for credits) that affects successful objective mission outcome in any way... /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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