Wukong Rework Ideas

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

I play my wukong with rolling guard anyway. Safe recast and get rid of those magnetic procs. It seems unnecessary imo. Damage reduction definitely isnt necessary. Definitely when u playing with invincibility frames. I say leave it alone so it would be a counter to wukong's defy or u want to see defy get that hysteria treatment lol.

[(PSN)chibitonka]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

I play my wukong with rolling guard anyway. Safe recast and get rid of those magnetic procs. It seems unnecessary imo. Damage reduction definitely isnt necessary. Definitely when u playing with invincibility frames. I say leave it alone so it would be a counter to wukong's defy or u want to see defy get that hysteria treatment lol.

Using a mod to ignore the issue is like augments for frames tbf. Just a bandaid x:

Also it's not against wukongs lore as he is supposed to be resilient to most things anyway. 

[Hardplague9548]

On 2019-04-22 at 5:02 AM, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

AsiDamage reduction and damage immunity seems stupid if u still going to have defy. He's already have the best survivabilty in the game. He doesn't need damage reduction or status immunity when u cant die. 

Why is it that Nidus is allowed to get up to 90% damage reduction and basically a Wukong Defy effect when he dies at 15 stacks?

Nidus is always praised as best synergized frame in the game and Wukong the worst frame in general (along side Vauban) but when I want to implement a similar combination to Wukong which is stated to have intense survivability it is not alright (not saying his current survivability is not good just want to make it so he doesn't get one shot as quickly and drain energy like crazy) 

I understand that Wukong's Defy is instantaneous compared to Nidus's stack building but the point still stands as to how it is allowed on one and not the other 

As I have stated multiple times not only is his staff iconic but his armor as well so I wanted to implement both pieces and make him better at surviving instead of just taking a hit with 57% damage head on then dying. I want the effects of Wukong's Defy to effect at a slower rate while prolonging his ability to take more hits without necessarily using mods like Adaptation or Rolling Guard (reasoning explained below). It's not like this will make him to overpowered as stated earlier Nidus has similar capabilities and with my suggested rework to Wukong's abilities the player will be using that energy towards the reworked first and third ability. First ability will improve his damage output which will need to be refreshed when it runs out and the third ability mostly for travel to mobs of enemies will be cast once or more depending on distance which costs energy per cast.   

Adaptation depends on the player getting hit in order to give additive damage reduction since the harder the enemies get the more damage they deal meaning Wukong would die a few times (because of being one shotted) to get the 90% damage reduction then continue getting shot at to keep it up. Adaptation would be nice if Wukong had some innate damage reduction (from his 4th ability along with his armor) as it would greatly benefit both his survivability (taking multiple shots instead of one) and energy consumption (since he dies relatively easily with no innate damage reduction other than his armor which at base give 43% damage reduction) meaning he won't die as much to receive the additional 90% damage reduction.

Rolling Guard could be useful especially the way you explained with the removal of magnetic status effects but that won't affect his general survivability in the long run as it only gives him a few seconds of immunity then he once it ends he will be dealt 57% damage of the enemy attack (at base armor).    

As for the status immunity it is not against all elements but just fire damage as it is stated that Wukong is immune to fire damage (quite possibly because of a charm) but if it does not get into the game I will understand.

On 2019-04-22 at 9:32 PM, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Using a mod to ignore the issue is like augments for frames tbf. Just a bandaid x:

Also it's not against wukongs lore as he is supposed to be resilient to most things anyway. 

Thank you 

[(PSN)chibitonka]

3 hours ago, Hardplague9548 said:

Why is it that Nidus is allowed to get up to 90% damage reduction and basically a Wukong Defy effect when he dies at 15 stacks?

Nidus is always praised as best synergized frame in the game and Wukong the worst frame in general (along side Vauban) but when I want to implement a similar combination to Wukong which is stated to have intense survivability it is not alright (not saying his current survivability is not good just want to make it so he doesn't get one shot as quickly and drain energy like crazy) 

I understand that Wukong's Defy is instantaneous compared to Nidus's stack building but the point still stands as to how it is allowed on one and not the other 

As I have stated multiple times not only is his staff iconic but his armor as well so I wanted to implement both pieces and make him better at surviving instead of just taking a hit with 57% damage head on then dying. I want the effects of Wukong's Defy to effect at a slower rate while prolonging his ability to take more hits without necessarily using mods like Adaptation or Rolling Guard (reasoning explained below). It's not like this will make him to overpowered as stated earlier Nidus has similar capabilities and with my suggested rework to Wukong's abilities the player will be using that energy towards the reworked first and third ability. First ability will improve his damage output which will need to be refreshed when it runs out and the third ability mostly for travel to mobs of enemies will be cast once or more depending on distance which costs energy per cast.   

Adaptation depends on the player getting hit in order to give additive damage reduction since the harder the enemies get the more damage they deal meaning Wukong would die a few times (because of being one shotted) to get the 90% damage reduction then continue getting shot at to keep it up. Adaptation would be nice if Wukong had some innate damage reduction (from his 4th ability along with his armor) as it would greatly benefit both his survivability (taking multiple shots instead of one) and energy consumption (since he dies relatively easily with no innate damage reduction other than his armor which at base give 43% damage reduction) meaning he won't die as much to receive the additional 90% damage reduction.

Rolling Guard could be useful especially the way you explained with the removal of magnetic status effects but that won't affect his general survivability in the long run as it only gives him a few seconds of immunity then he once it ends he will be dealt 57% damage of the enemy attack (at base armor).    

As for the status immunity it is not against all elements but just fire damage as it is stated that Wukong is immune to fire damage (quite possibly because of a charm) but if it does not get into the game I will understand.

Thank you 

Idk if you took a gander at my essay of a rework or not. if you did i'm sorry your eyes may have melted. xD

Edited April 24, 2019 by (PS4)chibitonka

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

He's already damn near immortal... If you dying as wukong you have a problem. Defy is literally the best survivabilty move in the game. Add other things like damage reduction is pointless. He's survives the same vs 100s 1000s 9999s. Doesn't matter you should be alive. Giving him immunity to status effects isnt necessary and he shouldnt have immunity to status because then he'll absolutely have no counters at all and i doubt DE would allow that.. 

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

If you using adaptation on wukong you doing something wrong lol. 90% damage reduction and status immunity when you can literally abuse invincibility and it's effected by duration mods. I dont care if wukong had 0 armor he still would live against everything. The only real threat vs wukong is yourself, magnetic procs, leechers, nullifier bubbles, stalker, zanuka and the jugheads (Scrambus). Lets see, give wukong status immunity what kills wukong? Nothing but stupidity, nullifier bubbles, stalker, and jugheads. Trust and believe im not worried about anything on this list. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by (PS4)Dyin-Kyo

[Hardplague9548]

17 hours ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Idk if you took a gander at my essay of a rework or not. if you did i'm sorry your eyes may have melted. xD

I did take a look at it lol

48 minutes ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

He's already damn near immortal... If you dying as wukong you have a problem. Defy is literally the best survivabilty move in the game. Add other things like damage reduction is pointless. He's survives the same vs 100s 1000s 9999s. Doesn't matter you should be alive. Giving him immunity to status effects isnt necessary and he shouldnt have immunity to status because then he'll absolutely have no counters at all and i doubt DE would allow that.. 

I am only giving him status immunity to ONE status effect being HEAT not all of them so he can still be impacted by all the status effects (slash, impact, puncture, toxin, electricity, cold, magnetic, blast, corrosive, viral, gas)  except for heat by itself. Even if the status effect has heat in the combination this will override his immunity example if you combine heat and cold to make blast he will still be dealt full blast damage even if there is heat involved. This applies to every effect I have stated above unless he is struck by only the HEAT damage status effect which he is immune to similar to the Wukong of legend. 

52 minutes ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

If you using adaptation on wukong you doing something wrong lol. 90% damage reduction and status immunity when you can literally abuse invincibility and it's effected by duration mods. I dont care if wukong had 0 armor he still would live against everything. The only real threat vs wukong is yourself, magnetic procs, leechers, nullifier bubbles, stalker, zanuka and the jugheads (Scrambus). Lets see, give wukong status immunity what kills wukong? Nothing but stupidity, nullifier bubbles, stalker, and jugheads. Trust and believe im not worried about anything on this list. 

I don't use adaptation on my Wukong however I was just stating an idea of a possible build with that mod and I do not generally die or get downed with Wukong (unless certain circumstances appear like running out of energy or entering a nullifier bubble) I am just trying to make him more efficient in his survivability.

I am not saying his current defy ability is weak in any way and I am sure he can survive against any enemy level but the thing I want to do is extend his life span between deaths. To elaborate right now to me Wukong feels like wet tissue paper because his general gameplay is activate defy, take damage head on (possibly recover energy based on build), die (lose energy some energy), while defy active become immune for a few seconds and recover with portion of health. What I want is for Wukong to activate defy, activate his iron staff (giving him damage reduction), tank more damage then he does now, die (lose energy), while defy active become immune and recover with portion of health. The only difference between current Wukong and my proposed is that he takes more hits instead of instantly getting melted during the start of any high level mission (even with defy active). So I want him to tank damage a lot better at first then as the mission progresses he will slowly get weaker plus the damage reduction fits his legend counterpart (as he is stated to take little to no damage from normal attacks) so I am not bullS#&$ting this in for no reason. 

 

 

[(PSN)chibitonka]

The 

7 hours ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

If you using adaptation on wukong you doing something wrong lol. 90% damage reduction and status immunity when you can literally abuse invincibility and it's effected by duration mods. I dont care if wukong had 0 armor he still would live against everything. The only real threat vs wukong is yourself, magnetic procs, leechers, nullifier bubbles, stalker, zanuka and the jugheads (Scrambus). Lets see, give wukong status immunity what kills wukong? Nothing but stupidity, nullifier bubbles, stalker, and jugheads. Trust and believe im not worried about anything on this list. 

being temporarily unkillable means nothing if you can't take hits in stride. 

Also ew duration mods on wukong when the main skill any Wukong main worth their salt picks is his staff. 

As is his defy has way too much leeway for abuse. Should be cutting the invince time to 3 seconds unaffected by duration mods. Like capping the number of times defy can save him to 7 instead of 17. If one wants unkillable lord of the braindead pick an Inaros or Rhino they shouldn't be touching Wukong. 

People picking him up just to max out his duration and damn rest of the kit  so they can be "invincible" is already a problem that needs culling. 

Giving him just those two things doesn't have to be on defy and cutting his cap res and fix figuring i frames with defy makes it so people won't make him the Immortal *@##$ like most do with Nekros as the loot mule. 

 

[(PSN)chibitonka]

5 hours ago, Hardplague9548 said:

I did take a look at it lol

I am only giving him status immunity to ONE status effect being HEAT not all of them so he can still be impacted by all the status effects (slash, impact, puncture, toxin, electricity, cold, magnetic, blast, corrosive, viral, gas)  except for heat by itself. Even if the status effect has heat in the combination this will override his immunity example if you combine heat and cold to make blast he will still be dealt full blast damage even if there is heat involved. This applies to every effect I have stated above unless he is struck by only the HEAT damage status effect which he is immune to similar to the Wukong of legend. 

I don't use adaptation on my Wukong however I was just stating an idea of a possible build with that mod and I do not generally die or get downed with Wukong (unless certain circumstances appear like running out of energy or entering a nullifier bubble) I am just trying to make him more efficient in his survivability.

I am not saying his current defy ability is weak in any way and I am sure he can survive against any enemy level but the thing I want to do is extend his life span between deaths. To elaborate right now to me Wukong feels like wet tissue paper because his general gameplay is activate defy, take damage head on (possibly recover energy based on build), die (lose energy some energy), while defy active become immune for a few seconds and recover with portion of health. What I want is for Wukong to activate defy, activate his iron staff (giving him damage reduction), tank more damage then he does now, die (lose energy), while defy active become immune and recover with portion of health. The only difference between current Wukong and my proposed is that he takes more hits instead of instantly getting melted during the start of any high level mission (even with defy active). So I want him to tank damage a lot better at first then as the mission progresses he will slowly get weaker plus the damage reduction fits his legend counterpart (as he is stated to take little to no damage from normal attacks) so I am not bullS#&$ting this in for no reason. 

 

 

verdict? O:

 

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

Dont compare wukong to rhino or inaros because he already survives longer than both already... Damage reduction only works o long to the point it doesn't matter anyway. Like on nidus. Once u hit them higher lvls he gets 1shotted thru all that armor  health damage reduction... You only link to produce more stacks faster at that point... Exactly why most smart nidus players opt out of using stuff like adaptation and armor for more damage. Because as long as you building stacks properly and cc'ing u abusing the invincibility frames. Yes damage reduction would he nidus in the beginning because he starts with 0stack after while it doesn't matter. Wukong starts the mission immortal and practically stays that way the whole mission. Dont need armor dont need damage reduction.

[(PSN)chibitonka]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

Dont compare wukong to rhino or inaros because he already survives longer than both already... Damage reduction only works o long to the point it doesn't matter anyway. Like on nidus. Once u hit them higher lvls he gets 1shotted thru all that armor  health damage reduction... You only link to produce more stacks faster at that point... Exactly why most smart nidus players opt out of using stuff like adaptation and armor for more damage. Because as long as you building stacks properly and cc'ing u abusing the invincibility frames. Yes damage reduction would he nidus in the beginning because he starts with 0stack after while it doesn't matter. Wukong starts the mission immortal and practically stays that way the whole mission. Dont need armor dont need damage reduction.

 

no offense but you don't sound like you even use wukong. You assume that just because you can give him 15 second invincibility by building him for solely just Duration means that's all he should be played as. No, if you played him a good amount w/o having his duration out the nose you'd see the problem. 

Hence why Wukong Mains actually are for him getting dr and status immunity. Because they know that being immortal means nothing if you burn through the stacks so fast. More defy procs more energy spent meaning you're quite literally using him just to avoid getting killed while condemning any use of the rest of his kit. Meaning no iron Jabs for precise cc and no Primal fury because you got no power strength or range. Which are once again part of a Wukong Mains bread and butter.

Like i said. 

Make his invincibility periods 2 or 3 seconds and unchanged by duration mods. Drop the defy cap from 17 to 7 or 8. Add dr and status immunity. To balance out the less defy procs per cast. 

Then again we could just give Wukong the typical treatment of make him so weak that the stuff that needs fixing is ignored cause they decided to prioritize another skin. Oh wait they already did that. Wukong pretty much IS a press one button frame rn which is why posts for his rework even exist.

Edited April 25, 2019 by (PS4)chibitonka

[Hardplague9548]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

 

no offense but you don't sound like you even use wukong. You assume that just because you can give him 15 second invincibility by building him for solely just Duration means that's all he should be played as. No, if you played him a good amount w/o having his duration out the nose you'd see the problem. 

Hence why Wukong Mains actually are for him getting dr and status immunity. Because they know that being immortal means nothing if you burn through the stacks so fast. More defy procs more energy spent meaning you're quite literally using him just to avoid getting killed while condemning any use of the rest of his kit. Meaning no iron Jabs for precise cc and no Primal fury because you got no power strength or range. Which are once again part of a Wukong Mains bread and butter.

Like i said. 

Make his invincibility periods 2 or 3 seconds and unchanged by duration mods. Drop the defy cap from 17 to 7 or 8. Add dr and status immunity. To balance out the less defy procs per cast. 

Then again we could just give Wukong the typical treatment of make him so weak that the stuff that needs fixing is ignored cause they decided to prioritize another skin. Oh wait they already did that. Wukong pretty much IS a press one button frame rn which is why posts for his rework even exist.

Thank you so much for the explaination I greatly appreciate it. 

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

I play wukong very much. Damage reduction isn't necessary. Even in the higher lvls there's going to be a point where damage reduction doesn't matter. In wukong's case it never did. You dont need armor damage reduction or anything on wukong.

Edited April 26, 2019 by (PS4)Dyin-Kyo

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

I can literally go in any mission and never die or even worry about dying. You must be the 1 who really dont play wukong because if you dying as wukong i definitely feel bad for you. 90% damage reduction isnt necessary when u have a cycle of basically rebirthing yourself.

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

So the frame with the best survivability in the game who is practically immortal needs damage reduction. I'm not understanding this logic. So you put armor on your wukong? Don't tell me you type to use arcane guardians on wukong over arcane avengers. Don't tell me you want to use adaptation on  wukong. He already can't die he doesn't need it. I hope u not the type to use lifestrike or graces, because he doesn't need that either. Like be real how often you die as wukong? Because if you think you 90% damage reduction you definitely doing something wrong. I might need to hand out lessons. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by (PS4)Dyin-Kyo

[(PSN)chibitonka]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

So the frame with the best survivability in the game who is practically immortal needs damage reduction. I'm not understanding this logic. So you put armor on your wukong? Don't tell me you type to use arcane guardians on wukong over arcane avengers. Don't tell me you want to use adaptation on  wukong. He already can't die he doesn't need it. I hope u not the type to use lifestrike or graces, because he doesn't need that either. Like be real how often you die as wukong? Because if you think you 90% damage reduction you definitely doing something wrong. I might need to hand out lessons. 

lmfao don't get full of yourself using it as a crutch. If you're playing Wukong for just his defy then you're clearly void of any credibility. 

Oh noooo i'm losing so much energy cause my defy went down to double digit procs guess i should go hide and refresh. Like seriously? 

Oh no i'm so scared of dying let me just abuse his 2 instead of learning how to get good at playing Wukong. That's you and wukong players like you in a nutshell. 

A wannabe wukong player that can't do nothing but spam his 2 the whole time. Meanwhile the Mains won't use it outside of get out of jail instances and use the rest of his kit. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by (PS4)chibitonka

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

Is the rest of his kit worth using? No. I dont have to hide in a corner no need. Im just stating what is already true. It's unnecessary to add all that to defy. He has the best survivability in the game. Using it as a crutch? Like saying dont use rhino iron skin or dont go invisible as loki. It wouldn't make sense not to use it. If the rest of his kit was worth using this topic wouldn't exist. Or how about this we get rid of defy and just put warding halo there because you want 90% damage reduction ans status immunity.

Edited April 26, 2019 by (PS4)Dyin-Kyo

[Hardplague9548]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

So the frame with the best survivability in the game who is practically immortal needs damage reduction. I'm not understanding this logic. So you put armor on your wukong? Don't tell me you type to use arcane guardians on wukong over arcane avengers. Don't tell me you want to use adaptation on  wukong. He already can't die he doesn't need it. I hope u not the type to use lifestrike or graces, because he doesn't need that either. Like be real how often you die as wukong? Because if you think you 90% damage reduction you definitely doing something wrong. I might need to hand out lessons. 

Look at Nidus and tell me that first line again as long as long as he has more than 15 stacks let's say at max stacks he is practically a Wukong since he has a similar revival mechanic with the addition of damage reduction. Below is a comparison between Nidus and Wukong in regards to the revival mechanic, damage reduction and status immunity (taken from the Wukong and Nidus warframe pages from Warframe Wiki). 

Nidus:

If Nidus suffers fatal damage with at least 15 stacks of Mutation, those 15 stacks are consumed, granting him 5 seconds of invulnerability and restoring 50% of his health

When linked with an enemy, the target is completely disabled for the duration while Nidus transfers 20% / 30% / 40% / 50% (up to 90% with strength mods) damage received to the target instead; all knockdown, stagger, and negative status effects are also transferred from Nidus to the enemy target.

Wukong:

Upon losing all of his health, Wukong is healed up to 45% / 50% / 65% / 75% of his maximum health and gains invulnerability for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 seconds. As a consequence, Wukong loses 50% / 40% / 30% / 25% of his current energy. 

At this time Wukong does not have additional damage reduction or status immunity 

 

Nidus literally has the ability to transfer negative status effects (becoming status immune to all elements) to the affected enemy which is the point you keep bringing up about my Wukong rework. The main difference between them in regards to the revive mechanic (other than stacks and energy) is that Nidus will consistently get 50% of his health back instead of Wukong's degrading health mechanic and Wukong can extend the duration of invulnerability with duration mods. In regards to the status immunity I only want Wukong to get immunity to ONE status effect being HEAT instead of all of them like Nidus has with his Parasitic Link ability. I also want to give Wukong a slightly stronger damage reduction at 95% compared to Nidus's 90% to match the legend.

Not all Wukong players use his Defy exclusively I have an efficiency and strength build (would add some range but right now do not have the room maybe if I move things around I can) which focuses on improving all of his abilities which I find a use for in some form or another. I primarily use his Defy and Iron Staff when I feel like attacking enemies with my melee weapon and/or will use my Zenistar with Cloud Walker to take advantage of stealth damage multiplier while protecting a doorway or objective. I don't really use his Iron Jab unless I feel like jokingly saying Kamishini no yari (bleach reference) which is why I merged Iron Jab with the Iron Staff as they should be one ability and I enjoy the concept.       

The point of the damage reduction is to help him become more resilient to damage when you first start a mission then take more damage as the mission continues where the effects of the damage reduction become less useful. His current scaling is good but is still weak compared to other frames (except for frames without damage reduction or invisibility obviously) because sure he can survive death but what is the point when a single tap from an enemy can kill you especially during the start of a mission.  

 

 

[(PSN)chibitonka]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

Is the rest of his kit worth using? No. I dont have to hide in a corner no need. Im just stating what is already true. It's unnecessary to add all that to defy. He has the best survivability in the game. Using it as a crutch? Like saying dont use rhino iron skin or dont go invisible as loki. It wouldn't make sense not to use it. If the rest of his kit was worth using this topic wouldn't exist. Or how about this we get rid of defy and just put warding halo there because you want 90% damage reduction ans status immunity.

Rest of his kit worth using? ofc it is unless you like crapstain brainless gameplay. 

Pretty sure i didn't say add it to defy. In general it wouldn't be a bad idea for him to have it since it helps his defy last longer. On his defy tho no no.

Yes you are using it like a crutch. There is a time and place to use it, want it up all the time because you're scared you'll get downed then go for it and cement the fact. When it's needed cast it use it till it's not needed then cancel it. Not rocket science. 

 

 

[(PSN)chibitonka]

1 hour ago, Hardplague9548 said:

Look at Nidus and tell me that first line again as long as long as he has more than 15 stacks let's say at max stacks he is practically a Wukong since he has a similar revival mechanic with the addition of damage reduction. Below is a comparison between Nidus and Wukong in regards to the revival mechanic, damage reduction and status immunity (taken from the Wukong and Nidus warframe pages from Warframe Wiki). 

Nidus:

If Nidus suffers fatal damage with at least 15 stacks of Mutation, those 15 stacks are consumed, granting him 5 seconds of invulnerability and restoring 50% of his health

When linked with an enemy, the target is completely disabled for the duration while Nidus transfers 20% / 30% / 40% / 50% (up to 90% with strength mods) damage received to the target instead; all knockdown, stagger, and negative status effects are also transferred from Nidus to the enemy target.

Wukong:

Upon losing all of his health, Wukong is healed up to 45% / 50% / 65% / 75% of his maximum health and gains invulnerability for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 seconds. As a consequence, Wukong loses 50% / 40% / 30% / 25% of his current energy. 

At this time Wukong does not have additional damage reduction or status immunity 

 

Nidus literally has the ability to transfer negative status effects (becoming status immune to all elements) to the affected enemy which is the point you keep bringing up about my Wukong rework. The main difference between them in regards to the revive mechanic (other than stacks and energy) is that Nidus will consistently get 50% of his health back instead of Wukong's degrading health mechanic and Wukong can extend the duration of invulnerability with duration mods. In regards to the status immunity I only want Wukong to get immunity to ONE status effect being HEAT instead of all of them like Nidus has with his Parasitic Link ability. I also want to give Wukong a slightly stronger damage reduction at 95% compared to Nidus's 90% to match the legend.

Not all Wukong players use his Defy exclusively I have an efficiency and strength build (would add some range but right now do not have the room maybe if I move things around I can) which focuses on improving all of his abilities which I find a use for in some form or another. I primarily use his Defy and Iron Staff when I feel like attacking enemies with my melee weapon and/or will use my Zenistar with Cloud Walker to take advantage of stealth damage multiplier while protecting a doorway or objective. I don't really use his Iron Jab unless I feel like jokingly saying Kamishini no yari (bleach reference) which is why I merged Iron Jab with the Iron Staff as they should be one ability and I enjoy the concept.       

The point of the damage reduction is to help him become more resilient to damage when you first start a mission then take more damage as the mission continues where the effects of the damage reduction become less useful. His current scaling is good but is still weak compared to other frames (except for frames without damage reduction or invisibility obviously) because sure he can survive death but what is the point when a single tap from an enemy can kill you especially during the start of a mission.  

 

 

Iron jab is splendid denial for enemies you hit with it tbf. Especially if you single out troublesome enemies with it so they are down long enough to clean up the rabble. 

Wukong seems to be invulnerable to more than just fire btw. Especially when accounting for the fact he knows how to enhance himself via Daoist Spellcraft. Not including stuff like innate traits and what not. Depends on which version of the story you're going by tho. 

[Hardplague9548]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Iron jab is splendid denial for enemies you hit with it tbf. Especially if you single out troublesome enemies with it so they are down long enough to clean up the rabble. 

Wukong seems to be invulnerable to more than just fire btw. Especially when accounting for the fact he knows how to enhance himself via Daoist Spellcraft. Not including stuff like innate traits and what not. Depends on which version of the story you're going by tho. 

Thanks for the tip for Iron Jab I will be able to use that more effectively now. The thing with Sun Wukong is that he is a character with many uncertain or unexplained skills. I did my research online so I myself am not familiar with which version it is from. After looking at a few sites i noticed that he is immune to fire and water. Thus i gave him status immunity to fire because that was the only consistent thing that showed up. 

After my comment I suggested the removal health degradation from Defy. It is still in the early stages so let me know what u think.

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

7 hours ago, Hardplague9548 said:

Look at Nidus and tell me that first line again as long as long as he has more than 15 stacks let's say at max stacks he is practically a Wukong since he has a similar revival mechanic with the addition of damage reduction. Below is a comparison between Nidus and Wukong in regards to the revival mechanic, damage reduction and status immunity (taken from the Wukong and Nidus warframe pages from Warframe Wiki). 

Nidus:

If Nidus suffers fatal damage with at least 15 stacks of Mutation, those 15 stacks are consumed, granting him 5 seconds of invulnerability and restoring 50% of his health

When linked with an enemy, the target is completely disabled for the duration while Nidus transfers 20% / 30% / 40% / 50% (up to 90% with strength mods) damage received to the target instead; all knockdown, stagger, and negative status effects are also transferred from Nidus to the enemy target.

Wukong:

Upon losing all of his health, Wukong is healed up to 45% / 50% / 65% / 75% of his maximum health and gains invulnerability for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 seconds. As a consequence, Wukong loses 50% / 40% / 30% / 25% of his current energy. 

At this time Wukong does not have additional damage reduction or status immunity 

 

Nidus literally has the ability to transfer negative status effects (becoming status immune to all elements) to the affected enemy which is the point you keep bringing up about my Wukong rework. The main difference between them in regards to the revive mechanic (other than stacks and energy) is that Nidus will consistently get 50% of his health back instead of Wukong's degrading health mechanic and Wukong can extend the duration of invulnerability with duration mods. In regards to the status immunity I only want Wukong to get immunity to ONE status effect being HEAT instead of all of them like Nidus has with his Parasitic Link ability. I also want to give Wukong a slightly stronger damage reduction at 95% compared to Nidus's 90% to match the legend.

Not all Wukong players use his Defy exclusively I have an efficiency and strength build (would add some range but right now do not have the room maybe if I move things around I can) which focuses on improving all of his abilities which I find a use for in some form or another. I primarily use his Defy and Iron Staff when I feel like attacking enemies with my melee weapon and/or will use my Zenistar with Cloud Walker to take advantage of stealth damage multiplier while protecting a doorway or objective. I don't really use his Iron Jab unless I feel like jokingly saying Kamishini no yari (bleach reference) which is why I merged Iron Jab with the Iron Staff as they should be one ability and I enjoy the concept.       

The point of the damage reduction is to help him become more resilient to damage when you first start a mission then take more damage as the mission continues where the effects of the damage reduction become less useful. His current scaling is good but is still weak compared to other frames (except for frames without damage reduction or invisibility obviously) because sure he can survive death but what is the point when a single tap from an enemy can kill you especially during the start of a mission.  

 

 

Here's the big difference between nidus and wukong. Wukong can start the mission immortal nidus needs to build up to get immortal. Yes early wukong can get 1shotted sure... But are you going to die? No. Nidus needs his damage reduction until he builds up stacks. You going to continue to use link because it helps with building stacks. Eventually the damage reduction doesn't matter anyway.

[(PSN)chibitonka]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

Here's the big difference between nidus and wukong. Wukong can start the mission immortal nidus needs to build up to get immortal. Yes early wukong can get 1shotted sure... But are you going to die? No. Nidus needs his damage reduction until he builds up stacks. You going to continue to use link because it helps with building stacks. Eventually the damage reduction doesn't matter anyway.

well the dr might not matter at later instances the status immunity will tho. Cause nothing feels better than denying toxin, viral, slash, puncture, heat and mag procs 😄 

Is it necessary? ofc not but if we want to keep him truer to his source material we should. 

[(PSN)chibitonka]

18 hours ago, Hardplague9548 said:

Thanks for the tip for Iron Jab I will be able to use that more effectively now. The thing with Sun Wukong is that he is a character with many uncertain or unexplained skills. I did my research online so I myself am not familiar with which version it is from. After looking at a few sites i noticed that he is immune to fire and water. Thus i gave him status immunity to fire because that was the only consistent thing that showed up. 

After my comment I suggested the removal health degradation from Defy. It is still in the early stages so let me know what u think.

Defy could keep the degradation tbh. it does imply wukong getting worn out which while he's damn near unbeatable is still canon to his source material. Dropping the effect of duration on it would be better as one has to stay frosty with only 2 seconds of invincibility after defy procs. 

Plus Iron jab still has the potential of great mobility for monkey. In most instances of a sun wukong like character they would use the staff to shoot off into a distance almost instantly. For sake of re-positioning or getting out of immediate danger. The Iron Vault augment gets this idea somewhat but it fails horribly at versatility ie allowing one to vault off walls, enemies, allies, barrels, ceilings etc. Plus limiting you to be grounded to use the launch which is very un monkey like. 

[Hardplague9548]

1 hour ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Defy could keep the degradation tbh. it does imply wukong getting worn out which while he's damn near unbeatable is still canon to his source material. Dropping the effect of duration on it would be better as one has to stay frosty with only 2 seconds of invincibility after defy procs. 

Plus Iron jab still has the potential of great mobility for monkey. In most instances of a sun wukong like character they would use the staff to shoot off into a distance almost instantly. For sake of re-positioning or getting out of immediate danger. The Iron Vault augment gets this idea somewhat but it fails horribly at versatility ie allowing one to vault off walls, enemies, allies, barrels, ceilings etc. Plus limiting you to be grounded to use the launch which is very un monkey like. 

I see what you mean about the degradation but if it is to stay I would like it to have a cap of how much it goes down where you can't die from having it drain more than 19 times 

This is currently how Wukong's health degradation works

Upon reaching the 19th iteration, Wukong's health would be reduced to 0.75^19 = 0.423%, instead of which he will die regardless of the energy left, disregarding mods like Quick Thinking, due to his health being rounded to 0%.

I would like it to reach a point where you do not go below 1% health that way you can continue be immortal until you run out of energy or decide to refresh it because it feels bad being able to use an ability that prevents death then dying on the 19th death regardless if you have energy or not. 

I should maybe try to work out a build for Iron Jab but my gameplay style is currently Defy and Primal Fury so I have the Primal Rage Augment equipped instead. 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Hardplague9548
Mixed up the weapon for ability and augment for ability lol