Tau System / Endgame

[Rubicoh]

There are a number of recurring requests and otherwise very popular concepts among the warframe community to my understanding. To name a few relevant to this topic:

• Zawframes 
• Spoiler

  Ruins the significance of warframes as 'characters'. Also potentially spaghetti code and balancing issues.

   

• Warframe rivens (or something similar to it)
• Spoiler

  Balancing issues. Also more rivens to reroll and kuva is a pain to get.

   

 

• Male/female frame variants
• Spoiler

  Way too much work for what it's worth (which, for DE, would be zero dollars unless they sold the variants as skins). 

   

• A use for some of the insane rivens we have
• Spoiler

  The defense here is usually long survivals and eidolons. There isn't really a need otherwise. But that is very limited scope content for what is potentially a massive time/plat sink. 

   

• More umbral warframes
• Spoiler

  They already make new warframes + primed warframes. Adding umbral frames is unlikely to ever happen, or if it does it will be very rarely, especially since Excalibur Umbra was very much a generous freebie for people that would not ever be able to get Excalibur Prime, while all other prime frames are obtainable. 

   

• A better boss-fighting experience
• Spoiler

  People defending throwing canisters at those goddamn vents while the spider is wiggling about as 'fun'. The last two bosses have been pretty lackluster gameplay-wise compared to the eidolons, and even the eidolons are just scratching the surface of what this game could do with bosses, and are weighed down by clunky mechanics such as lures and the added stress of the day/night cycle.   

   

• Operator melee / more advanced combat
• Spoiler

  This is probably happening, I think DE said as much.

   

With the future Tau content on the way, DE could use the opportunity of a new Tau system to neatly and realistically satisfy all these points in a way such that it would create a new endgame for those that have been comfortably able to deal with any content thus far, while also not risking making all content before the Tau system irrelevant through power creep. 

 

New Systems:

Build-a-Frame

Spoiler

Located in a new hub located in the Tau system which could be introduced through a story segment, would be a frame foundry. The frame foundry would allow players to create warframes using a few new custom models of approx. sizes Male:(Nezha/Excalibur/Rhino) and Female:(Nova/Saryn/Hildryn), and using abilities taken from existing frames that the player has mastered. The fourth ability on any frame (e.g. Exalted Blade) would be limited to at most one-per frame, but each frame would not need to run a fourth ability. 

These frames could come with 4 warframe riven slots, as well as the exilus and other slots. They should be able to use augments for any abilities that they do have. As with the MOA companions, the shield/energy/health/armor values could be adjusted when building the frame, and the abilities could be added through a separate modding section on the frame after it's built. 

The frames would also be limited to Tau system missions exclusively as to avoid super-powered frames blasting through the current system. 

Lore-wise it could be a hub of an alien faction that is fighting sentients and stole warframe technology, using it to create knock-off warframes with slightly less powerful abilities (thus the zawframes would have base ~90% ability strength/efficiency/duration/range). 

To appease the umbra warframes crowd, the frames could also have another attachment slot for various cloth options (scarf/poncho/hood/cloak/etc.)

Tennogen could then be opened up to these frames and allow a bit more freedom in designing unique warframe skins. 

Warframe Rivens

Spoiler

Dropping from bosses in the Tau system, the frame rivens could be stat trades for a specific ability (i.e. Exalted Blade +X strength +Y efficiency -Z range, dispositions set appropriately). Rerolling these rivens could be done also with a resource similar to vitus essence, that would be a guaranteed drop from defeating a boss in the Tau system. 

General Tau System... Systems

Spoiler

Perhaps just starting with one planet/space rock cluster, the Tau system could be slowly expanded upon to add new content as the story progresses. Each planet/cluster would have a new boss, as well as a few other semi-new mission types. Some new mission types could be an onslaught exterminate in a large open tile-set with some adapting enemies thrown in, a space battle using the new railjack system, in which the tenno need to assault a sentient ship and destroy it - similar to what was shown at tennocon; etc... 

The mod drop tables could be changed up for the Tau system to feature exclusively side-grades like the Amalgam mods (e.g. much weaker Pressure Point with +DMG stacking on hit and a high non-combo decay rate), as well as new exilus mods (+dur/+eff for example)/warframe ability augments (like ignoring adaptation on Saryn's spores). This would avoid overlap, while not power-creeping existing mods. 

As well as limiting the new build-a-frames to the Tau system, weapon rivens and a few select mods (Maiming Strike) could also be locked to the Tau system. 

With all the additional strength and potential power that tenno would have playing in the Tau system, enemies would need be much tougher while avoiding too many adaptation enemies as that would be annoying. Given the potential also for a frame using Rhino 1+2, Nezha 3 and Chroma 3 all at once; enemies would need to hit a lot harder for it to be properly challenging. 

To increase the challenge further and increase the usefulness of certain mods/warframe abilities that might otherwise be pointless in the Tau system, players should get no revives if playing in a group of two or higher (including bosses), but they should still enter the downed state. 

 Kiddo Melee / Kiddo Mission

Spoiler

For any prime frame/umbra frame the player owns, they are able to use an 'exalted' weapon related to that frame as operator. For existing exalted weapons it simply allows use of that weapon, with separate modding for it. For frames like Saryn that do not have an exalted weapon, something appropriate could be chosen (e.g. exalted Scoliac with the secondary fire casting Toxic Lash). The operator could also wield the Paracesis since that would be fairly thematic.     

These weapons could help for new mission types in which only the operator is used. It could be a mission listed as survival that, when entered, the operator is sucked out of the warframe through sentient magic into a far away location, and the objective becomes recover warframe/escape. Could be stealth focused with void dash disabled and void mode replaced with crouch since it would be too easy otherwise. Sprint animation with the amp out could look a little bit less goofy and be a little bit quicker too. 

Bosses

Spoiler

I think for bosses in this game, DE needs to look at how other co-op PvE games have dealt successfully with challenging but enjoyable boss fights that aren't too stressful and are decently rewarding (more so FFXIV style than Destiny on account of the stronger focus on abilities) . The systems are already there to create boss fights that are challenging and give players different roles in a fight:

• Tanks take Guardian Derision and run only a melee weapon. Additional usefulness with Electromagnetic Plating. Could take Bless and become a paladin of sorts, or Vex Armor and be a hybrid tank/melee DPS.  
• Something to stop the mobs that spawn with Limbo/Vauban/etc., alleviate some pressure from the tank. 
• Oberon/Trinity/Khora/Nezha/etc. could all very easily fill the role of a support.
• Harrow/Hildryn/Oberon could allow a team to survive a one-hit mechanic or save a teammate should a tank drop aggro. 
• DPS frames that have been absent from current boss fights on account of low health pools and slightly lower/no damage could see use like Mirage/Excalibur. Bosses needn't have resistance to corrosive/heat/slash/toxin effects or stupidly high armor values, just give them an outrageous amount of health. 

To allow for more variation in warframe ability choices for boss fights outside of Chroma 3 + Mirage 1,3 + Rhino 3 + a high DPS weapon, some phases of boss fights could be dealt with using only melee weapons/ranged weapons/ability damage with some task for the other DPS frames to deal with when they are on an off-phase (like drawing the aggro of some projectile or dealing with weaker mobs. Bosses should also really consistently attack the players with an insane amount of damage so that the tank/healer/support is always busy, as the boss should focus the player with the highest EHP and be dropping some disrupting statuses like magnetic/viral/corrosive/nullify (with telegraphs) etc. 

Other mechanics to spice things up could be things like AOE damage/instakills, stack markers and unique statuses, and an enrage timer perhaps reserved for a nightmare mode with a different drop table (ephemera, kavat/kubrow/sentinel/moa skins, sigils, build-a-frame cloth variants/helmets/re-textures, etc.).

I understand to some extent trials are the closest warframe has had to a system like an MMO raid and they were not amazingly well-received. I didn't actually play when they were in the game so I can't say how it was gameplay-wise but from my understanding it was mostly just poorly received because of the difficulty to put a good group together. If that's the case then a matchmaking system in which you queue for your intended role for a boss fight in the Tau system between Tank/Support/Healer/Weapon DPS/Ability DPS could help alleviate some of that difficulty. Otherwise it might encourage more active clans. 

Additionally using the new railjack system you could fight some really big sentients in space and have a few players run around on/in the sentient targeting weak points on/in the sentient. 

 

[Chewarette]

Oh yes, Zaw Warframes and Warframes Riven, two of the worst systems implemented over the last few years expanded to the Warframes, we're all dreading this.

Next thing you know is DE implementing Zaw Rivens where you craft your Riven yourself with at least a 4th layer of RNG (because RNG = fun obviously).

[Rubicoh]

14 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Oh yes, Zaw Warframes and Warframes Riven, two of the worst systems implemented over the last few years expanded to the Warframes, we're all dreading this.

Next thing you know is DE implementing Zaw Rivens where you craft your Riven yourself with at least a 4th layer of RNG (because RNG = fun obviously).

Well there are only 4 stats for the warframe rivens to take total so it's far more likely to be useful in very few rolls. Plus I said the rivens would drop from a boss so you could just farm rivens until you got a few that would work as a cohesive build, and the materials to reroll it could drop from the same boss. 

As far as Zaws go, I don't really get that criticism? Worst implemented how? You get to choose the stats on your weapon and the trigger/stance so it works for the '4fun' players to try out weird builds and the min-maxers to create a weapon which synergizes well with a planned build. Zaw warframes would just allow for more build-crafting and variable play-styles. The only painful part of zaws was getting the standing and sometimes the materials, but Fortuna improved the standing/material grind a lot.  

[Chewarette]

1 hour ago, OJSaucy said:

Well there are only 4 stats for the warframe rivens to take total so it's far more likely to be useful in very few rolls. Plus I said the rivens would drop from a boss so you could just farm rivens until you got a few that would work as a cohesive build, and the materials to reroll it could drop from the same boss. 

There aren't 4 stats for Warframe. There are 20 billions.

For sure there are Strength, Efficiency, Duration and Range. But there are also HP, Shield, Energy, Energy regen, Sprint speed, Wall-latch duration, Glide duration, Friction, Casting speed, Armor, HP-to-energy conversion, Quick-Thinking thing, +x% dmg on bulletjump, damage increase when bleeding out, knockdown resistance, knockdown damage reduction, shield protection against cold...

1 hour ago, OJSaucy said:

As far as Zaws go, I don't really get that criticism? Worst implemented how? You get to choose the stats on your weapon and the trigger/stance so it works for the '4fun' players to try out weird builds and the min-maxers to create a weapon which synergizes well with a planned build. Zaw warframes would just allow for more build-crafting and variable play-styles. The only painful part of zaws was getting the standing and sometimes the materials, but Fortuna improved the standing/material grind a lot.  

Zaws are a big design laziness in my opinion. "We don't bother creating weapons so take it, just do it yourselves". In the process, we've "lost" the uniqueness of the "normal" weapons, as they are just modules sticked together. All Zaws are the same, all Kitguns are the same, and imo they lack identity. How would you describe a Cyath Zaw ? That's... I don't know, a blade ? I'm not sure which one it is. Could you describe the Arca Plasmor, the Jat Kittag or the Staticor ? Yes, probably.

You can't have any part "out of the ordinary" with Zaws, that's why all the possible combinations, in the end, are all approximately the same similarly-looking weapon.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Chewarette

[Rubicoh]

1 minute ago, Chewarette said:

There aren't 4 stats for Warframe. There are 20 billions.

For sure there are Strength, Efficiency, Duration and Range. But there are also HP, Shield, Energy, Energy regen, Sprint speed, Wall-latch duration, Glide duration, Friction, Casting speed, Armor, Energy-to-HP conversion, Quick-Thinking thing, +x% dmg on bulletjump, damage when bleeding out...

Zaws are a big design laziness in my opinion. "We don't bother creating weapons so take it, just do it yourselves". In the process, we've "lost" the uniqueness of the "normal" weapons, as they are just modules sticked together. All Zaws are the same, all Kitguns are the same, and imo they lack identity. How would you describe a Cyath Zaw ? That's... I don't know, a blade ? I'm not sure which one it is. Could you describe the Arca Plasmor, the Jat Kittag or the Staticor ? Yes, probably.

You can't have any part "out of the ordinary" with Zaws, that's why all the possible combinations, in the end, are all approximately the same similarly-looking weapon.

I specified there are 4 warframe riven slots, as in one for each ability. HP etc. would be tied to the build-a-frame like it is with MOA. 

Zaws are limited in scope as to what they can actually become. If you're concerned with them having made every non-zaw melee irrelevant that's simply not the case, and they've not stripped them of their uniqueness either. Gram, Paracesis, Atterax, Scoliac, Redeemer, any sword + shield, any syndicate melee, any augmented melee, Skiajati, Scindo, Hirudo, any glaive, etc. The only weapons which really got taken out by zaws were polearms, and even then Guandao and Tipedo (especially with prime) are still pretty damn solid polearms which would only be slightly worse than the plague polearms while looking better if you're concerned the with aesthetics of a weapon which you can hide when holstered. 

And it's not like they don't bother making weapons, they've made some amazing melee weapons since zaws were released, many of which I use in place of a zaw given their riven dispositions are higher and some are very fun to use like the Falcor and the Redeemer Prime. 

 

But regardless, the melee zaws don't really have anything to do with this topic as a custom warframe would be far different than a custom stat stick. You could choose stats, abilities and appearance, with appearance not being tied to stats or abilities. 

[Swagernator22663]

How about no.

[Chewarette]

9 minutes ago, OJSaucy said:

I specified there are 4 warframe riven slots, as in one for each ability. HP etc. would be tied to the build-a-frame like it is with MOA. 

Yes of course, because Riven mods for Kitguns absolutely don't give any Critical Chance, Status, Fire Rate or damage, all of these being determined already by the build itself.

What you're saying here is that Riven mods for Warframe would only contain the 4 basic stats for arbitrary reasons. Hint: it won't.

9 minutes ago, OJSaucy said:

Zaws are limited in scope as to what they can actually become. If you're concerned with them having made every non-zaw melee irrelevant that's simply not the case, and they've not stripped them of their uniqueness either. Gram, Paracesis, Atterax, Scoliac, Redeemer, any sword + shield, any syndicate melee, any augmented melee, Skiajati, Scindo, Hirudo, any glaive, etc. The only weapons which really got taken out by zaws were polearms, and even then Guandao and Tipedo (especially with prime) are still pretty damn solid polearms which would only be slightly worse than the plague polearms while looking better if you're concerned the with aesthetics of a weapon which you can hide when holstered. 

And it's not like they don't bother making weapons, they've made some amazing melee weapons since zaws were released, many of which I use in place of a zaw given their riven dispositions are higher and some are very fun to use like the Falcor and the Redeemer Prime. 

But regardless, the melee zaws don't really have anything to do with this topic as a custom warframe would be far different than a custom stat stick. You could choose stats, abilities and appearance, with appearance not being tied to stats or abilities. 

I see you're not reading posts (I never talked about power/overpowerness/whatever), so I'll do that as well with your topic from now on. Good luck and have a nice day.