Melee 3.0 Warframe

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

Since Khorra didn’t have Melee 3.0 come out with them can we get a Warframe that is like a Devil May Cry chapter that has a power creed over Excalibur? A character with a melee system that uses a exaulted melee with secondary would make for a grand release.

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

has a power creed creep over Excalibur?

Ahhhhhhhh.... no.

Why in the heck would you deliberately state 'power creep' in your request?

I mean, sure, design up a frame, give it some powers and make them cool, then if it's actually more powerful than Excal it would still be a cool concept at least. You'd get a little support, maybe even inspire the Devs to do something about it.

But come on...  why would you shoot yourself in the knee like that?

[Sajochi]

8 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

But come on...  why would you shoot yourself in the knee like that?

checks their post history

Yeah, don't try to reason with them. You'll only have more questions without answers. 

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

15 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Ahhhhhhhh.... no.

Why in the heck would you deliberately state 'power creep' in your request?

I mean, sure, design up a frame, give it some powers and make them cool, then if it's actually more powerful than Excal it would still be a cool concept at least. You'd get a little support, maybe even inspire the Devs to do something about it.

But come on...  why would you shoot yourself in the knee like that?

It was sarcasm. I haven’t seen anyone yet request for Hildra to get nerfed on the grounds of being a “better Rhino”. What we can look forward to is a melee 3.0 character that sticks out from Khorra and Excalibur d p s builds by using abilities that fit into the intended melee system.

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

I haven’t seen anyone yet request for Hildra to get nerfed on the grounds of being a “better Rhino”.

That would be because Hildryn isn't anything like Rhino and doesn't do what he does in the slightest. Where is there even a comparison in their kit?

Meanwhile you're literally starting threads asking for more frames that do what existing frames do. Last time that happened we got 'original Nezha', do you want to get more 'original Nezha'? Because this is how you get 'original Nezha'.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-03-26 at 2:07 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

That would be because Hildryn isn't anything like Rhino and doesn't do what he does in the slightest. Where is there even a comparison in their kit?

Meanwhile you're literally starting threads asking for more frames that do what existing frames do. Last time that happened we got 'original Nezha', do you want to get more 'original Nezha'? Because this is how you get 'original Nezha'.

To reflect on that we asked for a monk Warframe and got the C tier Barruk, then when we finally got shield gatting it was given to Hildra. The idea is not another rehash of Exaclibur; but to have a character that actually is made foe the Melee 3.0 system. Like Baruuk the characrer can have a meter that fills whem doing melee combos that allows them to use a unique set of high damage combos. That melee character can be something between A and S tier for high level content too.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

The idea is not another rehash of Exaclibur; but to have a character that actually is made foe the Melee 3.0 system.

Well? Go on.

But, before you do. DE have already said that all melee, including the Ability Melee, is getting improved with the Melee 3.0 system, with all of the Combos getting updated and multiple new systems that will change up how the Combo Counter works, the Heavy Attacks, and so on. They've even showed hints of multiple ways they could replace Channelling with something like DMC's Devil Trigger mode. Baruuk, Valkyr, Wukong and Excal can all be updated and are already likely to be given all the things that you want.

So, with that in mind, your ideas need to be a little more in depth.

On top of that knowledge, we have to consider our lack of knowledge. We don't know how good or how bad the Melee changes are going to be. Phase 1, after all, came with some incredible smoothing to the way we play, but not without its flaws, such as actions we would usually trigger with the Block mechanic not being easy to use any more, if possible at all.

And finally, you even point out that DE's attempts at giving us their versions of these concepts... isn't exactly great. They tried to make a frame that previewed their melee changes before, and when they actually showed those off, the result was Khora. And when those changes didn't turn out as planned, with the community pointing out all of the flaws in it, they had to completely rework their frame. When we wanted Shield Gating, DE created a frame to test the concept, and gave that frame absolutely everything that could support it; shield gain abilities, shield regen, immunity to damage types that would bypass shields if she has overshields, interactions with Energy Orbs, interactions with Arcanes, interactions with other warframes and everything that could possibly support a shield-based frame, and she's still not... amazing. Baruuk's kit works for a Reluctant Hero frame, but again, an oversight in the design is that instead of actually having a push, pull and lift combo, he just has ragdoll on all of them.

But Khora's the key example here. They didn't do the changes that were coming in with her kit, the one she was supposed to flagship. Her example shows us that if there are changes that are needed to Melee 3.0 when they fully release it? They have to completely rework your flagship frame at the same time as making those changes. It'll be no different to the way Khora was released in a mess and constantly updated the way she was.

And so... go on. I'm listening. Design a frame that would fit. Fit with a system we don't know about, fit with a methodology of 'testing via the community' and also would neither be ruined or suddenly over-powered by shifts in what Melee 3.0 does.

My friend, you're not thinking any of this through, and your 'wouldn't it be cool if' actually doesn't look cool in the slightest to anyone else right now.

[Teridax68]

Honestly, considering how Excalibur is considered the most prominent melee frame, would it not just make more sense to adjust him to represent Melee 3.0 better? He already had auto-block on his 4 before the update, and his 3 is just begging to be reimplemented as a sort of heavy attack.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-04-02 at 5:12 PM, Teridax68 said:

Honestly, considering how Excalibur is considered the most prominent melee frame, would it not just make more sense to adjust him to represent Melee 3.0 better? He already had auto-block on his 4 before the update, and his 3 is just begging to be reimplemented as a sort of heavy attack.

We need a Excalibur buff like we need a nyc buff. A slightly better  1 and 3; but not so great that people cry for a nerf.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-04-02 at 5:19 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Well? Go on.

But, before you do. DE have already said that all melee, including the Ability Melee, is getting improved with the Melee 3.0 system, with all of the Combos getting updated and multiple new systems that will change up how the Combo Counter works, the Heavy Attacks, and so on. They've even showed hints of multiple ways they could replace Channelling with something like DMC's Devil Trigger mode. Baruuk, Valkyr, Wukong and Excal can all be updated and are already likely to be given all the things that you want.

So, with that in mind, your ideas need to be a little more in depth.

On top of that knowledge, we have to consider our lack of knowledge. We don't know how good or how bad the Melee changes are going to be. Phase 1, after all, came with some incredible smoothing to the way we play, but not without its flaws, such as actions we would usually trigger with the Block mechanic not being easy to use any more, if possible at all.

And finally, you even point out that DE's attempts at giving us their versions of these concepts... isn't exactly great. They tried to make a frame that previewed their melee changes before, and when they actually showed those off, the result was Khora. And when those changes didn't turn out as planned, with the community pointing out all of the flaws in it, they had to completely rework their frame. When we wanted Shield Gating, DE created a frame to test the concept, and gave that frame absolutely everything that could support it; shield gain abilities, shield regen, immunity to damage types that would bypass shields if she has overshields, interactions with Energy Orbs, interactions with Arcanes, interactions with other warframes and everything that could possibly support a shield-based frame, and she's still not... amazing. Baruuk's kit works for a Reluctant Hero frame, but again, an oversight in the design is that instead of actually having a push, pull and lift combo, he just has ragdoll on all of them.

But Khora's the key example here. They didn't do the changes that were coming in with her kit, the one she was supposed to flagship. Her example shows us that if there are changes that are needed to Melee 3.0 when they fully release it? They have to completely rework your flagship frame at the same time as making those changes. It'll be no different to the way Khora was released in a mess and constantly updated the way she was.

And so... go on. I'm listening. Design a frame that would fit. Fit with a system we don't know about, fit with a methodology of 'testing via the community' and also would neither be ruined or suddenly over-powered by shifts in what Melee 3.0 does.

My friend, you're not thinking any of this through, and your 'wouldn't it be cool if' actually doesn't look cool in the slightest to anyone else right now.

Having a  character with a exaulted Glaive isn’t a bad alternative to show how responsive and how well melee 3.0 scales for end game. 

 

Giving D E feedback to see it come to fruition is more constructive than complaint to debase the game.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Having a  character with a exaulted Glaive isn’t a bad alternative to show how responsive and how well melee 3.0 scales for end game. 

Giving D E feedback to see it come to fruition is more constructive than complaint to debase the game.

You're not wrong, you just aren't following your own advice very well.

See, I'm the Zephyr guy, I know that frame inside and out, and spent actual plat to change my username to the mighty 'Birdframe Prime' when I needed to meme. Because I know that frame, not only do I point out legitimate complaints with the way the functions work, I offer actual working solutions based on the feedback from hundreds of threads on the topic, dozens of other people's responses to my ideas, and a fair knowledge of how the game works from four years of playing it to the high levels. Plus I've been here and analysed the reworks for dozens of Warframes, listening to their reasons for every rework and reading as much of the fan-feedback as possible, while also playing those reworks to establish whether they've succeeded in their aims.

Without complaints you can't see the problems, but without thought you can't provide solutions. And what I've seen of this thread has had absolutely zero thought put into it. Just a large spoon of 'wouldn't it be cool if' with nothing to back it up, and actual lines from you that make it sound not cool.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

11 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You're not wrong, you just aren't following your own advice very well.

See, I'm the Zephyr guy, I know that frame inside and out, and spent actual plat to change my username to the mighty 'Birdframe Prime' when I needed to meme. Because I know that frame, not only do I point out legitimate complaints with the way the functions work, I offer actual working solutions based on the feedback from hundreds of threads on the topic, dozens of other people's responses to my ideas, and a fair knowledge of how the game works from four years of playing it to the high levels. Plus I've been here and analysed the reworks for dozens of Warframes, listening to their reasons for every rework and reading as much of the fan-feedback as possible, while also playing those reworks to establish whether they've succeeded in their aims.

Without complaints you can't see the problems, but without thought you can't provide solutions. And what I've seen of this thread has had absolutely zero thought put into it. Just a large spoon of 'wouldn't it be cool if' with nothing to back it up, and actual lines from you that make it sound not cool.

The purpose is the review and the feedback on the experience. People on the forums wouldn’t become keyboard warriors on the forums if they ignored then wrong crowds; so positivity and contructive feedback is given. If people didn’t given actual feedback, then we wouldn’t have Baruuk and other content. Being uncivilized on the level of Mogamu getting Rev X Dev banned for “social justice” is just allowing the game to be watered down, having creativity on the content is what keeps the game going forward, otherwise this game gets stuck in a cycle of seasonal buffs and nerfs that Competitive shooters get stuck in.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

The purpose is the review and the feedback on the experience. People on the forums wouldn’t become keyboard warriors on the forums if they ignored then wrong crowds; so positivity and contructive feedback is given.

And yes, but my point stands; where is your actual feedback?

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

1 minute ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

And yes, but my point stands; where is your actual feedback?

We have a character that uses Javilin. We might as well have a DMC character when the full Melee 3.0 is ready to go. That is the original post.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 minute ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

We have a character that uses Javilin. We might as well have a DMC character when the full Melee 3.0 is ready to go. That is the original post.

That isn't feedback, because, and I will be clear; All the frames, every melee, is getting a form of Devil Trigger mode (DE even called it that on the streams), all warframes can dual-wield Swords and Pistols, and on top of that, the Ability melee frames are all getting updated for Melee 3.0 as it is.

Your feedback makes no sense, and has no basis in the reality of the game.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That isn't feedback, because, and I will be clear; All the frames, every melee, is getting a form of Devil Trigger mode (DE even called it that on the streams), all warframes can dual-wield Swords and Pistols, and on top of that, the Ability melee frames are all getting updated for Melee 3.0 as it is.

Your feedback makes no sense, and has no basis in the reality of the game.

A prime Example is Hildra’s 4th ability that is better in movement compared to Zephyr’s hover; but Zephyr can use their weapons while hovering. If Hildra wasn’t locked to their Balefire while hovering it would put Zephyr away til they got vaulted or more buffs. On the side Hildra got the shield gating passive, until they are possibly reworked for every character is given it. In this 2nd point if shield gating was later given to all warframes, then Hilda would be relevant as Vauban in their position. On these points the next character that can be included can use a kit and a passive that would put them in a niche of the melee system. Different from Excalibur, Khora, and others with the a complete kit. So if we can see a new melee frame added that has a unique functionality, then this character can be the ‘Hildra’ to Excalibur.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

So if we can see a new melee frame added that has a unique functionality, then this character can be the ‘Hildra’ to Excalibur.

You still aren't actually giving anything to support your point here.

As far as variety goes, there are four different frames that use Melee abilities, you haven't given any reason to make a new one rather than just letting the update happen to all of them.

Seriously, if there's going to be a 'Hildryn' to play off against Excal, then that already exists, there are three frames that have abilities similar to, but contrasting to, Excal's play style; they're called Baruuk, Valkyr and Wukong.

But none of this, in any way, explains what in the heck you're going on about with a 'DMC themed' frame, because with the updates that are planned, that have been actually previewed to us, every single frame in the game is going to have that play style. With the new fast-switching functions we got last month, the only thing we don't already have is the 'Devil Trigger' function.

So your 'feedback' is redundant statements asking for something we either already have, or will have anyway, and there is no need to make a new frame based on the concept. In fact, it may be actively bad to make a new frame based on the concept because if a mechanic they create for the new system is bad, rather than just fixing the mechanics, they have to rework a Warframe as well, which is extra work at no reward.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

20 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You still aren't actually giving anything to support your point here.

As far as variety goes, there are four different frames that use Melee abilities, you haven't given any reason to make a new one rather than just letting the update happen to all of them.

Seriously, if there's going to be a 'Hildryn' to play off against Excal, then that already exists, there are three frames that have abilities similar to, but contrasting to, Excal's play style; they're called Baruuk, Valkyr and Wukong.

But none of this, in any way, explains what in the heck you're going on about with a 'DMC themed' frame, because with the updates that are planned, that have been actually previewed to us, every single frame in the game is going to have that play style. With the new fast-switching functions we got last month, the only thing we don't already have is the 'Devil Trigger' function.

So your 'feedback' is redundant statements asking for something we either already have, or will have anyway, and there is no need to make a new frame based on the concept. In fact, it may be actively bad to make a new frame based on the concept because if a mechanic they create for the new system is bad, rather than just fixing the mechanics, they have to rework a Warframe as well, which is extra work at no reward.

I’m just here to add content, support the game, give feedback, and report any bugs. If it was possible without being a full on steal then a combo gage on the side that rewards for variety in attacks to attribute to the stats and damage next to the ‘Devil Triger’; so that it is not just another button mashing playstyle. The use of ‘skills for kills’ would set the character apart from the other melee characters and the mechanic would be different from Octavia.