Sorry Isn't Enough! You Still Haven't Told The Truth De!

[Blatantfool]

You are probably right, in certain aspects. But at the end of the day, DE "usually" resolves the issue.(eventually in a quick matter that I have notice).

But that isn't my point in my thread. DE is a company that requires money to keep it going(whether I believe keeping it in beta for a year is a good idea just to receive donations is irrelevant).

But the fact of the matter is, out of any gaming company out there, these guys are a way too open to public on their "f-ckups". I mean honestly, have you seen any others like this?  Hell no! And there is a good reason behind it.

Many companies, and not just gaming companies make mistakes, but be completely open about it and provide freebies because of it just brings down people perspective on their reliability. Add the entitlist generation in the mix, and they will have to f-ing give something every dam time there is a mistake!  Even though most of their players didn't pay a damn cent.

Honestly most of the complaints on here are pretty dam trivial if you ask me, I have seen worse plenty of times with different companies. 

 

Have you seen a child in the groceries store make a scene just because their mother didn't buy them candy, and eventually this said mother just cave it just to keep the peace?  Pretty much the same scenario, even if you want to admit it or not..

 

  I disagree. Sorta.

 

 The drop tables where atrocious. They needed fixing. This all came riding on a wave of other problems too. The community was lit ablaze. If it wasn't one thing this week its another.

 

 And then all that is riding on top of months and months of burnout.

 

 

 Acknowledging the truth of the situation is the right move. In a sense that is what the apology amounted to for me. I didn't need DE to tell me they were sorry as much as I needed DE to tell me they understood how stupid it was. To acknowledge the community and its feelings, which are important.

 

 

 And by the by, I came off a hell of a lot snappier then I meant to in that initial post. I just find the "They should talk less" logic puzzling. I'm going to assume you're at least somewhat like me, smack dab in the middle of a long-time gaming hobby. If thats true you should know that the only thing that happens when a dev stops talking is an outcry for them to interact again.

 

 The amount of talking DE does is something I'd defend as a strength. Not every Studio is ballsy enough to address a community as often as DE, because it is hard. Because you go into it knowing that in many cases your answers wont be good enough.

[Spinner187]

I hate to agree with you, but I do. It's the classic JC Penny's Effect, and DE is right in the middle of it.

 

I absolutely love them for being open with us, but for every person that enjoys and appreciates the openness, there's at least 10 others that take advantage.

 

If you don't know what the JC Penny Effect is, watch this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-jc-pennys-effect you'll see some notable parallels between what JC Penny tried to do and what DE is doing.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'd be all for a system like that. Anyway, real life's calling, so *poofs*

What a great example you brought to the table(t I love these guys from extra credit).

It just goes to show, honesty is not the best policy when it comes to certain people compared to instant gratification.

[vladiko2]

Keep in mind, however, that Pwnatron showed us that since U10 the drop rate for Forma was .68%

he don't post anymore: http://www.reddit.com/user/Pwnatron

[Spinner187]

  I disagree. Sorta.

 

 The drop tables where atrocious. They needed fixing. This all came riding on a wave of other problems too. The community was lit ablaze. If it wasn't one thing this week its another.

 

 And then all that is riding on top of months and months of burnout.

 

 

 Acknowledging the truth of the situation is the right move. In a sense that is what the apology amounted to for me. I didn't need DE to tell me they were sorry as much as I needed DE to tell me they understood how stupid it was. To acknowledge the community and its feelings, which are important.

 

 

 And by the by, I came off a hell of a lot snappier then I meant to in that initial post. I just find the "They should talk less" logic puzzling. I'm going to assume you're at least somewhat like me, smack dab in the middle of a long-time gaming hobby. If thats true you should know that the only thing that happens when a dev stops talking is an outcry for them to interact again.

 

 The amount of talking DE does is something I'd defend as a strength. Not every Studio is ballsy enough to address a community as often as DE, because it is hard. Because you go into it knowing that in many cases your answers wont be good enough.

Don't get me wrong, I am right there with you.

I have every prime weapon in my foundry ready to build, but just missing one freaking piece. It pretty dam frustrating!

Then I see a post by the devs acknowledge the problem and they are working on a resolution, with a apology along with FREE plat, is pretty dam shocking!(in a good way)

Then I turn around and see threads that pretty much state "apologize isn't enough." You are nothing but money grubbing blah blah blah", shows me how alot of the community is pretty dam ungrateful.(hence why I mention entitlist attitude).

Seriously, alot of people don't know how most gaming companies "Really" treat their customers.

I am completely aware on bugs that should have been fixed long ago, but this company goes out of their way to cater to it's patrons

Edited September 21, 2013 by Spinner187

[Blatantfool]

he don't post anymore: http://www.reddit.com/user/Pwnatron

 

  Do you happen to know the guy? or is this a shot in the dark for both of us? I've been told it was his work. Up to this point it hasn't mattered enough to question the information.

[Deathsnacks]

  Do you happen to know the guy. or is this a shot in the dark for both of us? I've been told it was his work.

 The U10 mining was done by me. Pwnatron is no longer involved with Warframe as he has ran out of things to do.

[Blatantfool]

 The U10 mining was done by me. Pwnatron is no longer involved with Warframe as he has ran out of things to do.

 Good to know, I suppose. Well good on you. Picked a lovely time to drop an atom bomb on the forums, but I can hardly blame you.

[RazorTip]

 The amount of talking DE does is something I'd defend as a strength. Not every Studio is ballsy enough to address a community as often as DE, because it is hard. 

True. Want a studio or developer that milks the community and doesn't care for them? I could name a few, one such being Gearbox. Between DE and Gearbox, I choose DE anytime.

[shr0ud]

Don't get me wrong, I am right there with you.

I have every prime weapon in my foundry ready to build, but just missing one freaking piece. It pretty dam frustrating!

Then I see a post by the devs acknowledge the problem and they are working on a resolution, with a apology along with FREE plat, is pretty dam shocking!(in a good way)

Then I turn around a see threads that pretty much state "apologize isn't enough." You are nothing but money grubbing blah blah blah", shows me how alot of the community is pretty dam ungrateful.(hence why I mention entitlist attitude).

Seriously, alot of people don't know how most gaming companies "Really" treat their customers.

I am completely aware on bugs that should have been fixed long ago, but this company goes out of their way to cater to it's patrons

Do you know what the free plat is compensation is for, really?

The free plat is for people who built the clantech weapons that cost 2 forma each. Now that they've lowered the costs to 1 forma each, that should compensate for whoever did build the clantech weapons for the old costs.

 

Stop saying the FREE plat was for nothing. If they didn't give that away the people who built the clantech weapons would have raised hell.

 

but what would you know, you don't care about the Embolist or the Dual Ichor anyway, right?

F-FREE Plat! I got free plat just by farming Everest, Earth and playing normally! Amazing devs! Of course it would seem that way to you.

[Spinner187]

Do you know what the free plat is compensation is for, really?

The free plat is for people who built the clantech weapons that cost 2 forma each. Now that they've lowered the costs to 1 forma each, that should compensate for whoever did build the clantech weapons for the old costs.

 

Stop saying the FREE plat was for nothing. If they didn't give that away the people who built the clantech weapons would have raised hell.

 

but what would you know, you don't care about the Embolist or the Dual Ichor anyway, right?

F-FREE Plat! I got free plat just by farming Everest, Earth and playing normally! Amazing devs! Of course it would seem that way to you.

Look man it getting pretty late, so I'll make this short.

Going by their EULA policy, they can make changes how they see fit. You, accepted this policy when you click "OK" like we all did after this policy was posted before starting the game(like most people, it was skimmed over). Actually alot of F2P games have the same, if not something similar policy.

In essence, they don't owe use nothing, and I mean nothing by law. Especially since all the money we put in is actually "donations".

 

Is this fair is debatable, but there is no denying that they are "trying" to balance it to be fair. Whether you accept it or not.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Spinner187

[shr0ud]

In essence, they don't owe use nothing, and I mean nothing by law. Especially since all the money we put in is actually "donations".

 

Is this fair is debatable, but there is no denying that they are "trying" to balance it to be fair. Whether you accept it or not.

it's called 'public image'. go be a lawyer elsewhere please.

[Guest]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/110802-we-are-very-lucky-to-have-de/

[Spinner187]

it's called 'public image'. go be a lawyer elsewhere please.

 

Public image? This gave me a good chuckle.  It is apparent you haven't read this thread and completely missed the point.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Spinner187

[Silvershadow66]

This whole drop table stuff has been a nightmare for a lot of us. How many keys were wasted after you assured us everything was ok to play and all drops had been fixed. I can't be sure but I'll bet it was in the tens of thousands.

 

The original tables being screwed up seems like a strech to begin with. Each table is complete different from the next. How did multiple entries get so far off of intended drop rate? When you removed stuff you had to redistribute % for items all over again. So you looked at forma being at 1% and others being at 0.6% and didn't think adding some of the available % back in to that? If this really was an accident that's fine and you had the opportunity to fix it. Everything would have been ok right here.

 

And there you go making assumptions. Why would anyone manually create drop tables by entering specific percentages which would mean altering the values of every entry every time a change is made to even 1 item when you can create a list with item weightings and then generate the loot table for each update?

 

That is the logical thing to do but it means that items don't have a percentage drop rate attached to them unless you specifically look at the final code. And if you are working to a tight deadline for just after a release scrambling to fix bugs its easy to not take that final step.

 

 

Do you know what the free plat is compensation is for, really?

The free plat is for people who built the clantech weapons that cost 2 forma each. Now that they've lowered the costs to 1 forma each, that should compensate for whoever did build the clantech weapons for the old costs.

 

Stop saying the FREE plat was for nothing. If they didn't give that away the people who built the clantech weapons would have raised hell.

 

but what would you know, you don't care about the Embolist or the Dual Ichor anyway, right?

F-FREE Plat! I got free plat just by farming Everest, Earth and playing normally! Amazing devs! Of course it would seem that way to you.

 

Didn't build any of the new clan weapons, so for me it is Free Plat. Notice that they gave it to everyone not just those who built the new weapons. That is something they could have done, only compensated the people who had built the clan weapons.

 

And when it comes down to it what is the end result of this whole things, we couldn't get forma as often for just 7 days. Thats all,. DE have identified the problem and fixed it, they have probably learned the lesson so it won't happen again and we have all got 50 plat out of it.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[ValhaHazred]

Not to mention it's probably too easy to get Forma now. I used to almost never get it, now I have 15 of the things.

Edited September 24, 2013 by ValhaHazred

[WeissKreuz]

How I'm starting to view DE. The pizza's good, but...

 

Edited September 24, 2013 by WeissKreuz

[EnDleSsPhantom]

No other company that I know of (and I've jumped from game to game over the course of 3 years) has ever apologized to their community for a screw up. Now, I'm not going to take the "DE have lied to us over and over." or the "But they made it up with an apology and 50 platinum!" Instead I'm going to try to think this over LOGICALLY. 

 

"...when you eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth..." - Sherlock Holmes

 

Now, let's consider a few possibilities and eliminate the impossible. Now, these aren't all the possibilities, but the ones I can be bothered to think of for now.

 

1. DE said they fixed something before they really got to fixing it

2. DE lied to us and just put it out there that they fixed it to calm the crowd

3. DE made a mistake and believed they fixed it but in actually didn't

 

 

2. DE downright lied to us and just put it out there that they fixed it to calm the crowd:

 

I'm going to start bashing this one first since it feels like the easiest to get rid of & has the lowest probability (IMO) of being the case. This seems quite unlikely, since DE seems to be willing to listen to their community and have been honest with us (for the most part). Hell, they've already listened to so many of our suggestions and looked at so many of our questions. It goes without saying that they've dodged and slipped past many questions with single sentences like "we're working on it," but they, as far as I know, haven't really downright completely ignored questions with a ton of up-votes/likes. Hell, they've even given us 50 platinum and an apology (< THIS. This is not a core reason to ignore #2, but it supports the other two reasons). You don't see that often. Also, this is a company that just gives and gives and gives (unfortunately, this may have spoiled many players). They spend hours and hours working when they should be sleeping. Hard to think they would downright lie when they're so hardworking & (to some extent) honest.

 

3. DE made a mistake and believed they fixed it but in actually didn't:

 

This is more likely #2, in my opinion, but is less likely than #1. DE has an entire team working on the game. It's not just one dude working 24/7. And it isn't just one single line of code that would screw all of this crap up. An entire team is looking at all of this and revising all this code. Surely there must have been SOMEONE to realize the numbers were screwed...right? Well, I'm just going to be the devil's advocate for myself and say that a lot of the times in code, exact numbers aren't shown to the coder (0.5%, etc). Going back to my old spot of going against #3, I'd say that even when numbers aren't absolutely clear, someone must have picked up on a few bits of code being screwed up. Surely, some of the devs play the game themselves and realize all the B.S. going on.

 

1. DE said they fixed something before they really got to fixing it:

This seems like the most likely situation, in my opinion. Here's how I imagine it: someone (or multiple people) realized that they screwed up and saw the community going and raging, so they wanted to calm everyone down with a statement, saying they fixed it. Judging by DE's history with Warframe, you can tell that they've made plenty of mistakes, e.g., they didn't consult/warn the community about the stamina change before they actually implemented it. This could be another mistake by DE in trying to calm the crowd, but made it worse. 

__________________________________________________________

 

So before you all go tearing this post sentence by sentence, all I want to say is: Think this over this logically and don't get side-tracked by little favors, e.g., 50 platinum. Also, don't have an entirely negative view of DE. An argument is when there are two sides that give opinions and backup their opinions with reasons. Don't have reasons? Don't put up bullsh** that makes no logical sense with either pure idiotic and blind support or foolish rage at a company that's clearly trying to make a good game. Also, don't blindly contradict someone who has an opinion that's the opposite of yours.

 

>> THINK LOGICALLY & REASONABLY <<

Edited September 24, 2013 by EnDleSsPhantom

[NinjaSylvy]

Funny how I seem to be the only Rank 8 player who has only used two formas and aint looking for more...

But to keep to the topic, I still like DE more than most other companies and I do love this game. That they may have lied to us is an serious concern, but didnt they fix the absurb clan research weapons and gives us free stuff on top of it?

All I can say is that I dont believe DE is screwing things up just to &!$$ us off and buy formas. To me, that only alienates people from the game and at open beta, it can be a catastrophe. 

I dont know what DE has been doing, but they do obviously listen to us and do work hard, so I will have faith on them. I still enjoy the game very much

Edited September 24, 2013 by NinjaSylvy