Reroll one Nightwave challenge once a week (Idea)

[Non_OffensiveAlias]

On 2019-07-24 at 1:28 PM, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

What happens if somebody rerolls a challenge and they don't wan to do that one either? If it's still random what challenge you'd get you'd be better off just doing the original challenge.

They could set it up like they have riven trolls where you pick of the 2. I think it's a good idea and then they could try out a few new challenges knowing that if people dont like them they can reroll it for now and DE could remove it from the rotation later. Like I just did the gilded challenge that they removed but it would have been nice to reroll it and never have to do it.

[Happy_Buddha]

1 minute ago, Non_OffensiveAlias said:

They could set it up like they have riven trolls where you pick of the 2. I think it's a good idea and then they could try out a few new challenges knowing that if people dont like them they can reroll it for now and DE could remove it from the rotation later. Like I just did the gilded challenge that they removed but it would have been nice to reroll it and never have to do it. 

What an amazing breakdown. Thanks man. I think that was said earlier. Good stuff.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

49 minutes ago, 1frogmaster said:

No one is demanding anything. Just suggesting a change that would improve QoL.

demand verb

demanded; demanding; demands

Definition of demand (Entry 2 of 2)

intransitive verb

: to call for something in an authoritative way : to make a demand : ASK

transitive verb

1: to ask or call for with authority : claim as due or just demanded to see a lawyer

2: to call for urgently, imperiously, or insistently demanded that the rioters disperse

3a: to ask authoritatively or earnestly to be informed ofdemand the reason for the dismissal

b: to require to come : SUMMON

4: to call for as useful or necessary etiquette demands a handwritten thank-you

 

 

The good Mr Webster disagrees with you. 

 

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No, we're simply trying to say, we understand you don't agree. We all get it. In fact you've brought up a lot of points too. We haven't even dismissed a lot of what you've said. However, no matter what someone says, you're dismissing it.

Here's me telling you that I understand that you don't agree, and the reason why I have dismissed the points offered was included each time I dismissed the point. 

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Looks like there isn't more of an argument for it, nor do you have more arguments against it. That's it, let's leave it at that.

Again if it's something that you want, the onus is on you to show why it's needed. 

So far it's not needed for people who can't do a minority of the challenges as they will probably hit tier 30 anyway, or the people who can't do the majority of the challenges as they will probably still be unable to hit tier 30 at all. It puts people who choose another challenge in a position where they may not benefit, and may instead have a harder time. It may benefit people who just don't want to do a particular challenge, but as I mentioned, that would be at odds with one of the aims of Nightwave. 

[Happy_Buddha]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Again if it's something that you want, the onus is on you to show why it's needed. 

So far it's not needed for people who can't do a minority of the challenges as they will probably hit tier 30 anyway, or the people who can't do the majority of the challenges as they will probably still be unable to hit tier 30 at all. It puts people who choose another challenge in a position where they may not benefit, and may instead have a harder time. It may benefit people who just don't want to do a particular challenge, but as I mentioned, that would be at odds with one of the aims of Nightwave. 

Well, Warframe as a game is not needed, as such I would argue the Onus is here is not for what is needed, but what it would provide. I think the ability to re-roll missions you do not enjoy at random, with the hope for a better or easier time with the same reward, would be a positive.

At the end of the day, everyone plays the game to have fun, and Nightwave can have a few missions every week that are un-enjoyable. Also I believe we have a disconnect on what Nightwave is intended to be. They have informed us that it is their unpaid idea of a season pass. Most other season passes from other games allow you buy past levels(Thank goodness we don't have that). I see no downside to allowing players to re-roll unfavorable challenges.

All in all, I would love to see this implemented in the future. Even though some people may enjoy certain types of missions. I abhore Index and Gild missions. I would love to avoid those, so I could have more fun with nightwave while waiting for the next big content drop.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

29 minutes ago, Happy_Buddha said:

Well, Warframe as a game is not needed, as such I would argue the Onus is here is not for what is needed, but what it would provide. I think the ability to re-roll missions you do not enjoy at random, with the hope for a better or easier time with the same reward, would be a positive.

Ok let's see why. 

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At the end of the day, everyone plays the game to have fun, and Nightwave can have a few missions every week that are un-enjoyable. Also I believe we have a disconnect on what Nightwave is intended to be. They have informed us that it is their unpaid idea of a season pass. Most other season passes from other games allow you buy past levels(Thank goodness we don't have that). I see no downside to allowing players to re-roll unfavorable challenges.

Great. Now as an example i have never done the conservation challenges. Hunting isn't a big thing in my country. Most of us never go out trying to track and hunt for any reason. (Fishing is a far more popular pass time. #islandlife) 

If it shows up again I'll be skipping it. Profit taker is out, because I just never got around to doing it so that's out too. Who knows what else I'll be skipping. I anticipate that there's a week when I may not be able to log in at all so I might miss out on all of those. 

Mathematics tells me that I'll still end up knee deep in the prestige ranks. Swapping challenges may help me to get there faster, but it's not really needed. 

I've been helping a newb get past some hurdles recently. Looking at him, and others I ran with in NW1, they probably would not benefit substantially from the proposed change. 

Now let's go ahead and look at that "probably would not benefit", even the people who support the change admit that it could go either way. It could benefit them or they could end up in as bad a position, and I've mentioned how individuals might be expected to suffer from switching as they would Lac the support we get from having multiple people helping us, because they all have to do the same challenges. 

 

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All in all, I would love to see this implemented in the future. Even though some people may enjoy certain types of missions. I abhore Index and Gild missions. I would love to avoid those, so I could have more fun with nightwave while waiting for the next big content drop.

As I said above, there's stuff I won't be doing, but we can already avoid them if we want to, and still hit tier 30. And while I don't usually mind the Index, the challenge is usually really boring because I've found that almost nobody else is willing to go as a Limbo. While I would personally prefer to do something else, doing them has shown me exactly why DE is trying to push us into it, by sweetening the pot, because so many people have never really done the index. 

[1frogmaster]

13 hours ago, 1frogmaster said:

You'd need, 240k standing to get to Old Mate. That's 30 days of farming or 4 weeks. Now it's week 7. You can finally fight profit taker, assuming you capped your standing every single day, without missing one, and having all the level up required items. Let's just assume that to make it easy. You finally get a chance to fight it and, what's that? You can't deal any damage because the only mods you have are Streamline, Flow, Vitality, Redirection, Warm Coat, and Toxic Flight. Mind you, you don't know what a catalyst is, you can't max all your mods, and you're playing Mag. Like, this is an impossible scenario for a newer player.

You missed this reason. This is why we should add it. I'm not worried about someone like you who can skip a few. What happens to someone who can't play more than once a week?

[Steel_Rook]

Something else that came up in another thread. Apparently - and I didn't know this - Season 2 of Nightwave will hang onto ALL of the Weekly and Elite Weekly challenges you haven't done from previous weeks, and offer them to you in subsequent weeks three at a time, picked randomly. Because different players will (generally) have skipped different challenges and RNG would have further picked different ones still, those challenges are already not synched between players. As such, even if we lack the ability to reroll a current week's challenge, could we at least be able to reroll the three "Recovered" challenges from past weeks? Currently, the only way to get a new draw is to complete the existing selection. It would be nice to be able to, say, reroll each of the three Recovered challenges once per day, from the pool of all of your Recovered challenges.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, 1frogmaster said:

You missed this reason. This is why we should add it. I'm not worried about someone like you who can skip a few. What happens to someone who can't play more than once a week?

No, I'd addressed it in advance, I think you raised it before, so I figured that it was already covered:

20 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Except that we have 2 months to go, so if you spend a month getting to that stage, you will be able to come back on a week where you are able to complete it. 

And if a person isn't able to complete one of the elites in any given week, that won't exclude them from the tiers after 10 weeks. And with more than 10 weeks, missing a week flat out still won't preclude them from getting to tier 30, even if they miss out on an elite in every other week. 

So again this really isn't needed, except for people who can't complete lots of challenges, and miss many weeks, in which case, expecting to be entitled to all of the rewards, is.... beyond the realm of reason. 

As for not being able to do many challenges/play more than once a week:

10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 Oh... Hold on, you went ahead and expanded, you're thinking of someone who is simultaneously a complete newb, with all nodes unlocked, and is just probably not going to be able to make it to tier 30 at all. (Your word was "impossible".) Ok.....

But if they're unable to complete enough of the event, why are you expecting them to be entitled to all of the rewards? Note well, Tenno, I wrote "enough". They don't need all of the available standing.

During NW1 we needed just more than half, of the available standing. At least one player was able to make it up to tier 60.

So let's look at it dispassionately:

Even missing a whole tier's worth of points a week, you will end up in prestige ranks after 10 weeks. Missing a whole 3 weeks worth of points, you'd still be in prestige ranks after 10 weeks. 

I'm a very cynical person but what I see your proposal as isn't "helping players get to rank 30", it's "helping the strongest amongst us to get as many potatoes as possible". 

Since weaker players, like the newb with no mods you envisioned, will still fail to make the grade, I really don't see significant benefit in the implementation of the suggestion to them. To you and I, who will hit rank 30 partway through, there's benefit, but we're in the least need of the help. Wouldn't it be a lot better to find a different way for us to earn the extra standing? 

 

To reiterate, for someone who just can't do enough of the challenges to make it to tier 30, the proposed change probably isn't going to make much of a difference. For those of us who are able to complete the majority of the challenges, it won't make much of a difference. 

The only person who I can see it will probably helps is someone who just doesn't want to do a small and very specific set of challenges, and the probability is in their favour. Like me and profit taker, and conservation, or you and index. We would probably benefit, but as I said, part of the stated intent for nightwave was to encourage us to do stuff outside of our comfort zones. I suspect that in both of our cases, it's not a matter of "can't" but just a case of "don't feel like, and don't need to". I'd wager that we could probably both change our minds in a couple of weeks and use the catch-up mechanic to get it done if we feel like. 

So I just don't see the benefit of adding this. The group that would benefit from it, doesn't need it; and the group that needs it the most won't benefit. 

 

[Test-995]

One reroll per week? that's too little, allow us to repeat same things at extremely low efficiency (maybe 5-10%), and increase the amount of acts per week (the more is better), while introducing standing caps.

Well, i'm not against making nightwave easier.

[Happy_Buddha]

6 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Now let's go ahead and look at that "probably would not benefit", even the people who support the change admit that it could go either way. It could benefit them or they could end up in as bad a position, and I've mentioned how individuals might be expected to suffer from switching as they would Lac the support we get from having multiple people helping us, because they all have to do the same challenges.

I think the benefit here is not mechanical in nature. I am MR 21 in game. Mainly by choice. I have all the mods, all the fun tools I want. I have been playing the game since the first days Excal Prime was offered for sale. I have never gotten to rank 30 in nightwave. I don't plan to this time either. Because too many of the challenges are tedious and boring. They kill my enjoyment for the reasons I play the game. I have 60 million Credits. I don't want to do Index. I have every Kitgun, Zaw and AMP I want, I don't want to guild another. These are time consuming tasks I would rather avoid because I do not find them enjoyable. There are other players like me, who simply cannot enjoy certain challenges.

Will implementing a feature like this help me. Or benefit me and the many others like me. Yes. We would get to have more choice in what we do for standing, and have more patience with more of the missions we don't want to do. Because we get a shot at rerolling the crappy(IOM) ones.

In regards to the helping others with the same missions/tasks. I can see some people being affected by this. Though I also think many players in our community here would help anyway. That is just the type of community warframe is. We have players constantly helping others with little to no self gain. So while it may affect some. I don't see people who already have tons of help available being unable to find more.

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Happy_Buddha said:

I think the benefit here is not mechanical in nature. I am MR 21 in game. Mainly by choice. I have all the mods, all the fun tools I want. I have been playing the game since the first days Excal Prime was offered for sale. I have never gotten to rank 30 in nightwave. I don't plan to this time either. Because too many of the challenges are tedious and boring. They kill my enjoyment for the reasons I play the game. I have 60 million Credits. I don't want to do Index. I have every Kitgun, Zaw and AMP I want, I don't want to guild another. These are time consuming tasks I would rather avoid because I do not find them enjoyable. There are other players like me, who simply cannot enjoy certain challenges.

Will implementing a feature like this help me. Or benefit me and the many others like me. Yes. We would get to have more choice in what we do for standing, and have more patience with more of the missions we don't want to do. Because we get a shot at rerolling the crappy(IOM) ones.

In regards to the helping others with the same missions/tasks. I can see some people being affected by this. Though I also think many players in our community here would help anyway. That is just the type of community warframe is. We have players constantly helping others with little to no self gain. So while it may affect some. I don't see people who already have tons of help available being unable to find more.

 

Yup, I acknowledged that players like you would probably be the ones to benefit from the suggestion:

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

To reiterate, for someone who just can't do enough of the challenges to make it to tier 30, the proposed change probably isn't going to make much of a difference. For those of us who are able to complete the majority of the challenges, it won't make much of a difference. 

The only person who I can see it will probably helps is someone who just doesn't want to do a small and very specific set of challenges, and the probability is in their favour. Like me and profit taker, and conservation, or you and index. We would probably benefit, but as I said, part of the stated intent for nightwave was to encourage us to do stuff outside of our comfort zones. I suspect that in both of our cases, it's not a matter of "can't" but just a case of "don't feel like, and don't need to". I'd wager that we could probably both change our minds in a couple of weeks and use the catch-up mechanic to get it done if we feel like. 

So I just don't see the benefit of adding this. The group that would benefit from it, doesn't need it; and the group that needs it the most won't benefit. 

And I agree, many of us would still be willing to pitch in and help... If we knew that someone needed it. But as it stands right now, so many of us are doing the same challenges that it's highly probable that newbs will end up in our public matches and we'll help them through without them having to ask. Like the index one, I'll probably just go as limbo and lock the goal down. With the fishing, I'll just go ahead and put a marker before spreading bait like it's going to be expiring soon.

Rerolling and getting silver grove, would probably result in some poor Tenno being left up a creek. I don't see too many people offering to carry in that one. 

[Thrymm]

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ok let's see why. 

Great. Now as an example i have never done the conservation challenges. Hunting isn't a big thing in my country. Most of us never go out trying to track and hunt for any reason. (Fishing is a far more popular pass time. #islandlife) 

If it shows up again I'll be skipping it. Profit taker is out, because I just never got around to doing it so that's out too. Who knows what else I'll be skipping. I anticipate that there's a week when I may not be able to log in at all so I might miss out on all of those. 

Mathematics tells me that I'll still end up knee deep in the prestige ranks. Swapping challenges may help me to get there faster, but it's not really needed. 

I've been helping a newb get past some hurdles recently. Looking at him, and others I ran with in NW1, they probably would not benefit substantially from the proposed change. 

Now let's go ahead and look at that "probably would not benefit", even the people who support the change admit that it could go either way. It could benefit them or they could end up in as bad a position, and I've mentioned how individuals might be expected to suffer from switching as they would Lac the support we get from having multiple people helping us, because they all have to do the same challenges. 

 

As I said above, there's stuff I won't be doing, but we can already avoid them if we want to, and still hit tier 30. And while I don't usually mind the Index, the challenge is usually really boring because I've found that almost nobody else is willing to go as a Limbo. While I would personally prefer to do something else, doing them has shown me exactly why DE is trying to push us into it, by sweetening the pot, because so many people have never really done the index. 

It's true that we can avoid stuff that we don't want to do.  This, by it's very nature, entirely discounts the "helping noobs" notion.  If we're not doing it, we're not helping new players do it either.

This holds true whether the challenge exists or not.  If we're doing them because we "need" them(in this case, we'll just call need "have the challenge as well and are doing it", then we where going to do the challenge anyway--we aren't necessarily going to reroll that one because we intend to do it.  Rather, we'd use that reroll option on something like the above mentioned hunting or profit taker challenges that we had no intention of doing and thus, not helping new players do either.

You are not at all unique in this outlook, I agree with it completely---I also skip challenges I don't want to do, sometimes because they are a pain and sometimes because I just don't like them, and given that the math is widely known and we KNOW we won't be required to do them all, I'd imagine that this attitude is relatively widespread(at least it should be, nobody is doing themselves or anyone else a favor by grinding out crappy challenges that they don't like).  It'd be both convenient and streamlined to be offered other activities than the ones that we never had any intention of completing in the first place.  I think it'd be far better to offer us the opportunity to get something we will do, rather than look at something all week that we've no intention of even trying.

The benefit for others may be much farther reaching.  For me, it's a matter of preference--I really can do anything they throw at me, and I just don't like doing certain things.  Perhaps a newer player isn't going to have the standing to even try Profit Taker, or perhaps a person is running this on some kind of antique that won't let them do open world missions.  Or, as a popular example goes, a person may have no intention of gilding yet another item(because heck, it's just a pain in the butt to actually do it again once you've got them done)  Far better to offer them content than make them languish on items that are effectively non-content, right?

Allowing the opportunity for players to choose these items, rather than simply ignoring them, is a relatively powerful tool.  What if eighty percent of the playerbase rerolled a particular challenge on Sunday night, just hours after it is offered, for example?  If players where to do such a thing(and it's conceivable, I think. I very often know which ones I'll be doing the minute I look at the list), it would become quite obvious that a particular challenge is unpopular and, perhaps, shouldn't be offering for consumption to the entire playerbase in the future.  If virtually zero percent ever rerolls a particular challenge, it would be safe to believe that this is a popular item, and perhaps others like it would also be popular. 

This is already possible and happening.  Challenges are changing in nature fairly quickly this early in the system due primarily to player feedback.  The real power of this comes because players completing or rerolling challenges early in the week would give a snapshot of player interests early enough to shape the challenges offered the very next week, rather than having to compile a full week in review to get that data.  For example, wouldn't it have been great for DE to see us all rerolling a 60min survival with friends and be able to say "whoa, you guys aren't into that", rather than wait for it all to end for them to look back at the data and say "wow, you guys really meant it when you said you didn't like that, huh".  We could have seen a single flicker and gone, rather than watch that steamer fester throughout the entire last season before finally being neutered down to something folks find palatable.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 hours ago, Thrymm said:

It's true that we can avoid stuff that we don't want to do.  This, by it's very nature, entirely discounts the "helping noobs" notion.  If we're not doing it, we're not helping new players do it either.

This holds true whether the challenge exists or not.  If we're doing them because we "need" them(in this case, we'll just call need "have the challenge as well and are doing it", then we where going to do the challenge anyway--we aren't necessarily going to reroll that one because we intend to do it.  Rather, we'd use that reroll option on something like the above mentioned hunting or profit taker challenges that we had no intention of doing and thus, not helping new players do either.

I figure you're looking at it from the wrong side Tenno. Think about it from the newbs side. Let's say it's the Silver Grove one.

Newb, knows that they don't have a chance of getting 3 apothics, heck they don't even know what an apothic is. They're just running missions on Earth and trying to keep up with the group. They think to themselves "wow, these dudes are good... I'm hardly getting a chance to kill enemies", but suddenly there's a marker, calling the squad to a location, so they follow it. A short while later there's a flurry of activity, and everyone congratulates one another while extracting. 

The Newb was helped to complete a challenge they couldn't have hoped to do, just because so many others were doing it. 

What if they had swapped that for something else, like the 'no score index"? Yes, they're going to find people who are running in the index, but apart from them nobody knows that there's a benefit from not letting the enemy score. The index doesn't have that as a normal condition, so most of the time, we don't go around trying to prevent the enemy from scoring. 

 

Those of us who are able to get challenges done, aren't the ones who would be affected. It's the newbs who will be left stranded without a support net, and will have to go look for people to help that stand to lose the most. 

 

 

[1frogmaster]

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I figure you're looking at it from the wrong side Tenno. Think about it from the newbs side. Let's say it's the Silver Grove one.

Newb, knows that they don't have a chance of getting 3 apothics, heck they don't even know what an apothic is. They're just running missions on Earth and trying to keep up with the group. They think to themselves "wow, these dudes are good... I'm hardly getting a chance to kill enemies", but suddenly there's a marker, calling the squad to a location, so they follow it. A short while later there's a flurry of activity, and everyone congratulates one another while extracting. 

The Newb was helped to complete a challenge they couldn't have hoped to do, just because so many others were doing it. 

What if they had swapped that for something else, like the 'no score index"? Yes, they're going to find people who are running in the index, but apart from them nobody knows that there's a benefit from not letting the enemy score. The index doesn't have that as a normal condition, so most of the time, we don't go around trying to prevent the enemy from scoring. 

 

Those of us who are able to get challenges done, aren't the ones who would be affected. It's the newbs who will be left stranded without a support net, and will have to go look for people to help that stand to lose the most. 

On 2019-07-24 at 1:07 PM, Arcanys12 said:

It could work similarly to how rivens get rerolled where you can choose to keep the new generated challenge or the original one.

On 2019-07-26 at 9:38 AM, Arcanys12 said:

Just like the chance at rolling a better riven, they get the chance of a challenge they can do. If they get another challenge they can't do, then that's fine, because we're talking about a chance at it. If they don't want the new challenge they can pick the old one, same as the riven-reroll system. If that gets them a rank or two higher in the series, then great! There's no entitlement in having the option to do this, they still have to complete the challenge that they pick.

On 2019-07-24 at 4:38 PM, Steel_Rook said:

Why does something have to happen? It's RNG - you're taking a chance on potentially getting a better challenge. Maybe give the player the option to hang onto their original challenge if they don't like the new roll while still consuming the reroll. Plenty of games have that option. Vermintide 2 allows you to reroll one daily challenge per day, The Division allows you to give up on dailies if you take too long and skip straight to the next daily, etc.

It would be a chance at something better. It wouldn't be.. how did you word it?

On 2019-07-25 at 12:33 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

...a reason to demand that others do something for you. 

If a new player can't complete something, or doesn't want to complete it, they have a chance at it. If they don't like it, they can keep the original task.

 

Nightwave is a list of chores, being able to have a chance at something potentially easier or more fun, would be a great update to the whole system. I also like what can come from adding this.

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Allowing the opportunity for players to choose these items, rather than simply ignoring them, is a relatively powerful tool.  What if eighty percent of the playerbase rerolled a particular challenge on Sunday night, just hours after it is offered, for example?  If players where to do such a thing(and it's conceivable, I think. I very often know which ones I'll be doing the minute I look at the list), it would become quite obvious that a particular challenge is unpopular and, perhaps, shouldn't be offering for consumption to the entire playerbase in the future.  If virtually zero percent ever rerolls a particular challenge, it would be safe to believe that this is a popular item, and perhaps others like it would also be popular. 

 

There are benefits that I can see from adding the system, the only drawback would be that players who can't do something, now has a few less people doing it... wait, no they don't. The users who rerolled it weren't going to do it anyways because of something you've said yourself again. What was it?

On 2019-07-26 at 11:32 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Because you can already skip them under the current system.

So if you can skip them already then you run into this problem...

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It's true that we can avoid stuff that we don't want to do.  This, by it's very nature, entirely discounts the "helping noobs" notion.  If we're not doing it, we're not helping new players do it either.

 

Your argument doesn't hold up. If us players don't want to do the mission, we won't, therefore negating the 'helping noobs' aspect that you keep bringing up. This will benefit both old and new because at least they have a chance to reroll to something that they know how to do, and for the older folks, they will be able to do something they want to do as well. You have to understand that this is only a chance, so you can't expect it to give what you want or need, like rivens, as explained many times before.

Adding this sounds like a great idea to me.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 hours ago, 1frogmaster said:

There are benefits that I can see from adding the system, the only drawback would be that players who can't do something, now has a few less people doing it... wait, no they don't. The users who rerolled it weren't going to do it anyways because of something you've said yourself again. What was it?

If only you would try reading and thinking, instead of just quoting before replying. 

10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I figure you're looking at it from the wrong side Tenno. Think about it from the newbs side. Let's say it's the Silver Grove one.

Newb, knows that they don't have a chance of getting 3 apothics, heck they don't even know what an apothic is. They're just running missions on Earth and trying to keep up with the group. They think to themselves "wow, these dudes are good... I'm hardly getting a chance to kill enemies", but suddenly there's a marker, calling the squad to a location, so they follow it. A short while later there's a flurry of activity, and everyone congratulates one another while extracting. 

The Newb was helped to complete a challenge they couldn't have hoped to do, just because so many others were doing it. 

What if they had swapped that for something else, like the 'no score index"? Yes, they're going to find people who are running in the index, but apart from them nobody knows that there's a benefit from not letting the enemy score. The index doesn't have that as a normal condition, so most of the time, we don't go around trying to prevent the enemy from scoring. 

 

Those of us who are able to get challenges done, aren't the ones who would be affected. It's the newbs who will be left stranded without a support net, and will have to go look for people to help that stand to lose the most. 

Would you look at that? Just like last time, I somehow answered what you wrote, before you wrote it. And that's the basis of your entire post? For shame, Tenno. 

Maybe go back to the beginning of the thread and actually try to think about what was written before replying next time? 

[1frogmaster]

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If only you would try reading and thinking, instead of just quoting before replying. 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, 1frogmaster said:

 

Guess that's a no, then. Not too surprised.