Soma Nerf

[GrilledSalmonWithLemon]

grakata is a lowtier weap.

I disagree with the premise that weapons should follow a tier-systems, this is destructive to the games' longevity. Weapons should have uniqueness but maintain respectable differences which can be in some form or another offset and justified as a means to provide interesting characteristics to them but be as useful as any other weapon of its kind or class i.e. Primary, Secondary, Melee. Imagine if Excalibur, Mag or Loki was just a Warframe to use up until 20 and Vauban, Rhino, Frost etc were meant for over 50. Their goal was to bring equilibrium to the warframes so that one isn't better than another (they are simply different); my suggestion is to do the same for the weapons. If this doesn't happen and certain weapons remain simply more powerful than the others...in the end everyone will be using a Soma. How boring that would be. I find it ridiculous that 7 forma in my Grakata is now a joke, my Hikou without forma or maxed mods just puts it to shame. If as you say Grakata is a low tier weapon, then why are 105 lvl Grineer using them on special alert missions?

 

 

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN A REWARD TO MY GRAKATA FOR USING 7 FORMA IN IT!!! Where is the motivation to use forma in weapons when they are either OP from the get-go or cursed from the start aka useless Grakata.

Edited September 22, 2013 by GrilledSalmonWithLemon

[zzang]

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN A REWARD TO MY GRAKATA FOR USING 7 FORMA IN IT!!! Where is the motivation to use forma in weapons when they are either OP from the get-go or cursed from the start aka useless Grakata.

sorry to tell you but the devs said they going to put weapons into Tiers so you should check out the livestreams or videos about the podcasts from time to time!

 

also can i see a screenshot of your 7 forma grakata?

Edited September 22, 2013 by zzang

[WhisperByte]

-snip-

It was supposed to be sidegrades system at first but devs switched their stance to tiered system. You may disagree but that's what they chose

[AfroGamerNinja]

So, it seems that the Soma requires a Mastery Rank of 3. Can anyone confirm?

[PeripheralVisionary]

Let's see...

 

You need Rank 4 to be able to buy all the weapons on the market. For clan weapons, you have to be Rank 7. Chances are, they'll put the Soma in Rank 4, like the Sobek and Hek.

Yeah right.

[AfroGamerNinja]

Yeah right.

Of course, the Sobek is Rank 4 because of it, along with the other shotties, being capable of dealing 150% AP damage, which is proper to shotguns.

[Reaver_X]

I disagree with the premise that weapons should follow a tier-systems, this is destructive to the games' longevity. Weapons should have uniqueness but maintain respectable differences which can be in some form or another offset and justified as a means to provide interesting characteristics to them but be as useful as any other weapon of its kind or class i.e. Primary, Secondary, Melee. Imagine if Excalibur, Mag or Loki was just a Warframe to use up until 20 and Vauban, Rhino, Frost etc were meant for over 50. Their goal was to bring equilibrium to the warframes so that one isn't better than another (they are simply different); my suggestion is to do the same for the weapons. If this doesn't happen and certain weapons remain simply more powerful than the others...in the end everyone will be using a Soma. How boring that would be. I find it ridiculous that 7 forma in my Grakata is now a joke, my Hikou without forma or maxed mods just puts it to shame. If as you say Grakata is a low tier weapon, then why are 105 lvl Grineer using them on special alert missions?

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN A REWARD TO MY GRAKATA FOR USING 7 FORMA IN IT!!! Where is the motivation to use forma in weapons when they are either OP from the get-go or cursed from the start aka useless Grakata.

srry, but i want to be rewarded for reaching mastery rank 9 with a gun that kills stuff much faster and at higher lvls than a rankless lato....

Edited September 22, 2013 by Reaver_X

[Wolfstorm18]

I disagree. This weapon dont need a nerf. All it needs is a weapon mastery rank requirement.

[Seanjuju]

after looking at the video the message is power creep is bad but then

i wonder why world of warcraft is still the most successfull MMO since almost a decade now, is it because the fact that they use powercreep?

 

seriously if you tae a break from the game (warframe or any MMO) and log in a year later and your weapons are still the best S#&$ out there where is the intention to ever log online again or where is the intention to keep the people playing?

 

i think new stronger weapons and enemies is what drives people to play this game longer and further its the same method to keep MMOs like WOW alive.

The video said they addressed the issue of power creep in WOW by adding 'release valves' such as heroic difficulties to keep their older content relevant. Its fine to have stronger weapons and mobs but that's not the point. Warframe which is likely to adopt a tiered weapon system shouldn't have weapons that make all previous weapons in its tier obsolete. Though many clan weapons are stronger than standard weapons, its not a problem because they're tiered higher. In the same sense, you can't release a tileset that's easy, gives premade OP gear, has no entrance barrier, gives dozens of rare 5 cores, guarantees at least 3 premade forma, and well you get the idea. You make previous tilesets (content) obsolete. It works the same way with frames and weapon tiers. Power Creep can burn away content faster than a game can make new content and its self-destructive. Don't underestimate the influence it can have. The best example of DE fighting power creep is Nightmare mode which keeps the older/easier locations relevant.    

 

 That said I don't support a soma nerf. It simply needs to be in its tier.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Seanjuju

[Maljas23]

Power Creep is serious and could easily be the end of warframe.

Won't hurt a PvE focused game much

[Seanjuju]

Won't hurt a PvE focused game much

Making content irrelevant or obsolete will hurt any game that relies on density of content.

[PeripheralVisionary]

you only need like 6 forma to get all maxed mods on there not counting puncture.

[saop]

Without any evil intentions, I hope that either it will get nerfed badly or other weapons will be made viable.

 

That's the same philosophy they promised when it came to Warframes, and we saw how that turned out.

[-Narauko-]

No. Atleast another month and ill move on.

[Kaidinah]

Mastery 6 is my guess. Many people compare it to supra which should probably be buffed or mastery 5.

I personally feel that the Supra should be buffed to match the Soma as a non-crit variant.

[GrilledSalmonWithLemon]

Making content irrelevant or obsolete will hurt any game that relies on density of content.

Exactly. Who wants to use weapons that are no longer relevant when you level because they are so weak. The EndGame is that everyone is using the same Warframe and weapon... how boring that would be. IMO Weapons should be different but given relatively equal amounts of potential.

[GottFaust]

At the Soma's current power level it needs to be a 7-8. It's just below the Synapse, which is a 7 last I checked, in DPS, but is also significantly cheaper to make.

[GrilledSalmonWithLemon]

sorry to tell you but the devs said they going to put weapons into Tiers so you should check out the livestreams or videos about the podcasts from time to time!

 

also can i see a screenshot of your 7 forma grakata?

I have watched all of the livestreams. What I meant is that while experience is reasonable in efforts to unlock access to certain weapons in a tier system, taking a weapon like Grakata and maxing it to it's full potential should be a reward not a wasted effort (this needs balance). Picture is worth a thousand words... wasted useless Grakata with 7 forma: http://postimg.org/image/gi2o1cqvb/

Edited September 23, 2013 by GrilledSalmonWithLemon

[GottFaust]

I have watched all of the livestreams. What I meant is that while experience is reasonable in efforts to unlock access to certain weapons in a tier system, taking a weapon like Grakata and maxing it to it's full potential should be a reward not a wasted effort (this needs balance). Picture is worth a thousand words... wasted useless Grakata with 7 forma: http://postimg.org/image/gi2o1cqvb/

I understand that you over-polarized your Grakata (It only needed 4 to use the "ideal" build), but that doesn't change the fact that tiered weapons are a good thing and the path the developers are taking forward. Does the Soma need to be in a tier higher than 3? Of course, but people putting loads of time into weapons with inferior base stats is no reason to justify a nerf.

That's like screaming that a Lamborghini Diablo should be slower because a Honda Civic will never be as fast no matter how many aftermarket parts you install on it.

[GrilledSalmonWithLemon]

I understand that you over-polarized your Grakata (It only needed 4 to use the "ideal" build), but that doesn't change the fact that tiered weapons are a good thing and the path the developers are taking forward. Does the Soma need to be in a tier higher than 3? Of course, but people putting loads of time into weapons with inferior base stats is no reason to justify a nerf.

That's like screaming that a Lamborghini Diablo should be slower because a Honda Civic will never be as fast no matter how many aftermarket parts you install on it.

Power creep, this will only last so long... it's a kind of inflation. When people get tired of it they will complain that those more powerful weapons are too powerful... and thus the cycle repeats itself. This is not a path to take towards balance. Making some weapons far more superior than others is harmful to the game, which relies heavily on players giving them money for platinum, platinum which is used for content such as more weapons. This kind of power creep renders much of their content useless and of no value to use. It makes the low tier weapons useless. This will destroy the game in the end. This is not a means of maintaining a well-balanced game.

 

 

Your* ideal build... I would argue 5 is sufficient... though the number coincidentally keeps changing when all the mods start to max out ;)

Edited September 23, 2013 by GrilledSalmonWithLemon

[LazyKnight]

Power creep, this will only last so long... it's a kind of inflation. When people get tired of it they will complain that those more powerful weapons are too powerful... and thus the cycle repeats itself. This is not a path to take towards balance. Making some weapons far more superior than others is harmful to the game, which relies heavily on players giving them money for platinum, platinum which is used for content such as more weapons. This kind of power creep renders much of their content useless and of no value to use. It makes the low tier weapons useless. This will destroy the game in the end. This is not a means of maintaining a well-balanced game.

 

 

Your* ideal build... I would argue 5 is sufficient... though the number coincidentally keeps changing when all the mods start to max out ;)

Looks like they are going to make 1 weapon for each type as top end highest tier. So, end game might be 16-20 powerful weapons with people working towards the weapon they want. People have been belly aching for a long time now there was no endgame content and the masses want power creep because it is a means of measuring progression.

Edited September 23, 2013 by LazyKnight

[bobafetthotmail]

At the Soma's current power level it needs to be a 7-8. It's just below the Synapse, which is a 7 last I checked, in DPS, but is also significantly cheaper to make.

 

It's a bit harder than that as its DPS is HIGHLY dependent from what mods you load on it. It's not Acrid that pwns everything with just a maxed serration.

 

Soma without mods is crap, weak and wastes a full @(*()$ clip to kill a crappy level 10 mob. Soma with maxed critical card plus a 100% serration is somewhere around Mastery 3 (it's around slightly better than a nearly fully modded potatoed Gorgon). Soma with maxed multishot crit and 100% serration is somewhere above mastery 4.

 

And as you add more mods and potato it gets more and more pwning, reaching Mastery 7 or even 8 with full mods loaded.

 

But mods and cores to level them don't grow on trees.

 

 

I would love to see every weapon of the game that grows like that as it gets modded, not a nerf-hammer coming down to cripple it nor a mastery wall to lock it in the olympus of mastery 7+ guys. (I'm mastery 4, but I can live fine with my Strum wraith and Sobek until higher levels, what I would NOT and I repeat NOT tolerate is a nerf. That weapon LOOKS FRIGGIN AWESOME, and I want to use it as more than decoration damnit!)

 

Not OP S#&$ like Acrid that rapes anything with a very basic mod configuration and totally worthless guns like Grakata that still suck after someone gave them a potato and 7 friggin formas worth of love.

[GrilledSalmonWithLemon]

I would love to see every weapon of the game that grows like that as it gets modded, not a nerf-hammer coming down to cripple it nor a mastery wall to lock it in the olympus of mastery 7+ guys.

My point entirely.

Weapons like tools can be better at some things than others, like apples and oranges... This is excellent game design. How it is now where I can throw low tier weapons in the trash for this month and use the cool new hot one which comes out next month, and the month after that, and after that... and so on... is horrible power creep/nerfing etc. inflation. S#&$ty game design. Seriously S#&$ game design.


What this game would benefit from more is a clear set of well-constructed and versatile high quality tools (Metaphorically speaking): hammers, Phillips head screw drivers, flat head etc. Allan wrench, crow bar, wrenches, saws, etc.... Not 40 different little flat-head screw drivers made of different metals and the point of the game then becomes to find which metal won't warp or break first. The idea of the Warframes is that they are relatively equal in their own right, not that one is better than the next, but that they are simply different--better at certain things. What I don’t get is why DE doesn’t understand or apply this very important concept to weapons as well. Edited September 23, 2013 by GrilledSalmonWithLemon

[noneuklid]

Yeah, I've really got no incentive to forma weapons if I can possibly manage to use them now, and know they're going to be usurped in a few weeks.  It's arguable they might sell more potatoes this way, but even that I'm going to be skeptical of if "new Soma" keeps rolling off the lines.

[LazyKnight]

Yeah, I've really got no incentive to forma weapons if I can possibly manage to use them now, and know they're going to be usurped in a few weeks.  It's arguable they might sell more potatoes this way, but even that I'm going to be skeptical of if "new Soma" keeps rolling off the lines.

I doubt they are going to keep escalating the power growth based on rank, considering how annoying and tedious it is to get past rank 8. How many people even get to rank 8+?

 

If they revalue Soma and place it at rank 6-8 it is a safe bet it will be future proof for a substantial amount of time. DE already said they are going to(assuming they ever do it) make rank requirement a reflection of power and they can't go much past 8 without making weapons for a tiny fraction of the player base.

Edited September 23, 2013 by LazyKnight