Soma Nerf

[AfroGamerNinja]

It's a bit harder than that as its DPS is HIGHLY dependent from what mods you load on it. It's not Acrid that pwns everything with just a maxed serration.

 

Soma without mods is crap, weak and wastes a full @(*()$ clip to kill a crappy level 10 mob. Soma with maxed critical card plus a 100% serration is somewhere around Mastery 3 (it's around slightly better than a nearly fully modded potatoed Gorgon). Soma with maxed multishot crit and 100% serration is somewhere above mastery 4.

 

And as you add more mods and potato it gets more and more pwning, reaching Mastery 7 or even 8 with full mods loaded.

 

But mods and cores to level them don't grow on trees.

 

 

I would love to see every weapon of the game that grows like that as it gets modded, not a nerf-hammer coming down to cripple it nor a mastery wall to lock it in the olympus of mastery 7+ guys. (I'm mastery 4, but I can live fine with my Strum wraith and Sobek until higher levels, what I would NOT and I repeat NOT tolerate is a nerf. That weapon LOOKS FRIGGIN AWESOME, and I want to use it as more than decoration damnit!)

 

Not OP S#&$ like Acrid that rapes anything with a very basic mod configuration and totally worthless guns like Grakata that still suck after someone gave them a potato and 7 friggin formas worth of love.

 

Pretty much.

[noneuklid]

If they revalue Soma and place it at rank 6-8 it is a safe bet it will be future proof for a substantial amount of time. DE already said they are going to(assuming they ever do it) make rank requirement a reflection of power and they can't go much past 8 without making weapons for a tiny fraction of the player base.

 

Eh?  I should be taking the rank 8 test in a few days, and I've been playing pretty casually for only a bit over two months now (to be fair, I've been fairly strict about switching gear out when I max it).  Plus, the shinier the high-rank items seem, the more work people will put into getting them.  They also mentioned in... LS13?  I think?  That they were going to be developing new Mastery tests for higher ranks because quite a few people were finished with all the earlier ones.

[LazyKnight]

Eh?  I should be taking the rank 8 test in a few days, and I've been playing pretty casually for only a bit over two months now (to be fair, I've been fairly strict about switching gear out when I max it).  Plus, the shinier the high-rank items seem, the more work people will put into getting them.  They also mentioned in... LS13?  I think?  That they were going to be developing new Mastery tests for higher ranks because quite a few people were finished with all the earlier ones.

My point I made badly was: They are not going to try to keep toping acrid, soma, synapse and acrid for awhile.

 

I have been extremely bad about getting mastery rank considering the time I have played. I am nearly rank 11(like 300 away), but I have no real excuse not to have it maxed all weapons other than I just use weapons I like.

[TheBlueFalcon]

It's a bit harder than that as its DPS is HIGHLY dependent from what mods you load on it. It's not Acrid that pwns everything with just a maxed serration.

 

Soma without mods is crap, weak and wastes a full @(*()$ clip to kill a crappy level 10 mob. Soma with maxed critical card plus a 100% serration is somewhere around Mastery 3 (it's around slightly better than a nearly fully modded potatoed Gorgon). Soma with maxed multishot crit and 100% serration is somewhere above mastery 4.

 

And as you add more mods and potato it gets more and more pwning, reaching Mastery 7 or even 8 with full mods loaded.

 

But mods and cores to level them don't grow on trees.

 

 

I would love to see every weapon of the game that grows like that as it gets modded, not a nerf-hammer coming down to cripple it nor a mastery wall to lock it in the olympus of mastery 7+ guys. (I'm mastery 4, but I can live fine with my Strum wraith and Sobek until higher levels, what I would NOT and I repeat NOT tolerate is a nerf. That weapon LOOKS FRIGGIN AWESOME, and I want to use it as more than decoration damnit!)

 

Not OP S#&$ like Acrid that rapes anything with a very basic mod configuration and totally worthless guns like Grakata that still suck after someone gave them a potato and 7 friggin formas worth of love.

I agree and disagree. The problem I have with the Soma isn't that it has crazy damage *potential* - it's that the Soma compared to just about every other weapon in the game is extremely easy to get to that level of insane DPS without too much work.

 

I have both the Supra and the Soma, both of them at level 30 and both with 5 polarity slots and potato'd. The Soma absolutely DESTROYS my Supra in every single measurable way and the Supra was waaaay more difficult to build and get to that level. My Supra required me to get to mastery rank 7, then get all the materials to research it and then even more materials to build it. After I did all that, I had to level it, potato it, foma it, relevel it, forma it, etc. until I could get in the maximum potential DPS loadout. The Supra on the other hand comes pre-loaded with two V polarities (arguably the most useful ones), does not require a high mastery rank, and is pretty easy to craft and obtain materials for. To be able to get 5 polarity slots in it I only had to forma it 3 times plus it didn't require any initial forma to build. Not only that, it will roughly double the amount of DPS of my Supra plus it's hitscan whereas the Supra has projectile travel time making it much harder to aim across distances. Oh, and the Soma has greater accuracy in general when compared to the Supra, a shorter wind up time, faster reload and a bigger clip size.

 

The reason I have been comparing these two weapons is to give the most  fair representation possible. Both guns are of the same class (heavy machine gun types with large clip sizes, a wind up time, and fairly high base firing rate). I don't care that the Soma is this good - I like it a lot and it is my default gun for most purposes aside from defense missions which I bring my Ogris to. I hope they DON'T nerf it because I do like it a lot. I just wish that it didn't make other weapons that I worked really hard for look silly when it it is so easy to get in comparison. I really liked the Supra and got to Mastery Rank 7 just so that I could build it - it looks really cool, I love the laser projectile and animation and everything else about it except for the fact that it is VASTLY outclassed by another gun of a similar type that is so much easier to get a hold of. I think either buffing similar weapons or putting a much higher mastery rank on the Soma would be a good call.

 

Hopefully this puts it into perspective a little bit better for those of you who are not at a high mastery rank or do not have one or both of those weapons.

 

P.S. In response to the guy with the Grakata - honestly, I don't think you can be too upset. The Grakata requires absolutely no mastery rank to build and doesn't come close to the material requirements of the Soma, so to me it stands to reason that the Soma *should* be better than the Grakata. If you put the same amount of effort into the Soma as your Grakata, it would be insane.

Edited September 23, 2013 by TheBlueFalcon

[GottFaust]

My point I made badly was: They are not going to try to keep toping acrid, soma, synapse and acrid for awhile.

I have been extremely bad about getting mastery rank considering the time I have played. I am nearly rank 11(like 300 away), but I have no real excuse not to have it maxed all weapons other than I just use weapons I like.

I'm in the same boat. I'm only barely into 11 at over 800 hours on steam and over 500 spent in missions. My problem is that I really have no desire to rank up all those extremely bad longswords. Maybe when they buff that whole archetype of weapons I'll catch up to my rank 12 friends with around half my time played...

Back on topic though: I doubt that DE have sat down and said "any weapon targeted for this rank needs to not exceed this minimum or maximum peak DPS." I think they plan to play it by ear more and assign or adjust the rank requirements based on the weapons rather than the other way around.

I do think that rank-gating powerful weapons is a good way to do it though. It gives players a concrete goal to work towards.

Edited September 23, 2013 by GottFaust

[AfroGamerNinja]

I'm in the same boat. I'm only barely into 11 at over 800 hours on steam and over 500 spent in missions. My problem is that I really have no desire to rank up all those extremely bad longswords. Maybe when they buff that whole archetype of weapons I'll catch up to my rank 12 friends with around half my time played...

Back on topic though: I doubt that DE have sat down and said "any weapon targeted for this rank needs to not exceed this minimum or maximum peak DPS." I think they plan to play it by ear more and assign or adjust the rank requirements based on the weapons rather than the other way around.

I do think that rank-gating powerful weapons is a good way to do it though. It gives players a concrete goal to work towards.

 

At the expense of your platinum.

[GottFaust]

At the expense of your platinum.

I have never, and will never buy a weapon with plat.

My plat is spent entirely on slots and potatoes with the occasional rush here and there.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I disagree with the premise that weapons should follow a tier-systems, this is destructive to the games' longevity. Weapons should have uniqueness but maintain respectable differences which can be in some form or another offset and justified as a means to provide interesting characteristics to them but be as useful as any other weapon of its kind or class i.e. Primary, Secondary, Melee. Imagine if Excalibur, Mag or Loki was just a Warframe to use up until 20 and Vauban, Rhino, Frost etc were meant for over 50. Their goal was to bring equilibrium to the warframes so that one isn't better than another (they are simply different); my suggestion is to do the same for the weapons. If this doesn't happen and certain weapons remain simply more powerful than the others...in the end everyone will be using a Soma. How boring that would be. I find it ridiculous that 7 forma in my Grakata is now a joke, my Hikou without forma or maxed mods just puts it to shame. If as you say Grakata is a low tier weapon, then why are 105 lvl Grineer using them on special alert missions?

 

 

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN A REWARD TO MY GRAKATA FOR USING 7 FORMA IN IT!!! Where is the motivation to use forma in weapons when they are either OP from the get-go or cursed from the start aka useless Grakata.

 

I disagree with the idea that every weapon should be equally viable for the same high level content. You wasting 7 forma on a weapon that was obviously inferior should not grant you anything other than something to look at and learn from in the future. If someone can forma their Lato 4 times and have it out perform my [insert high-tiered non-acrid secondary here] then there is a problem. It gives me little incentive to put in the extra work to get that higher-end weapon. High-tier weapons>Low-tier weapons, this is how it should be.

 

And making every weapon equally viable yet slightly different is only slightly better than making every weapon just a re-skin of some base weapon.

Edited September 23, 2013 by SquirmyBurrito

[GrilledSalmonWithLemon]

I disagree with the idea that every weapon should be equally viable for the same high level content. You wasting 7 forma on a weapon that was obviously inferior should not grant you anything other than something to look at and learn from in the future. If someone can forma their Lato 4 times and have it out perform my [insert high-tiered non-acrid secondary here] then there is a problem. It gives me little incentive to put in the extra work to get that higher-end weapon. High-tier weapons>Low-tier weapons, this is how it should be.

 

And making every weapon equally viable yet slightly different is only slightly better than making every weapon just a re-skin of some base weapon.

You clearly do not understand the concept of apples and oranges. 7 forma was necessary to max all my mods to their fullest... and yet still see how the Grakata is S#&$. It is a reflection of the ranking and tier system, which is also seriously S#&$.

[bobafetthotmail]

I agree and disagree. The problem I have with the Soma isn't that it has crazy damage *potential* - it's that the Soma compared to just about every other weapon in the game is extremely easy to get to that level of insane DPS without too much work.

 

Umm, your view might be a bit skewed by the fact that you are a veteran with most of the useful mods already. So for you it's just a "level it once, potato it and slap mods from the inventory on it".

 

And the Supra has always been horribly underwhelming when compared to other research weapons anyway.

 

Anyway, this is what I think the devs should try to add to other weapons too (within reason, It's ok for some weapons to be sub-optimal, but bulk of weapons are well below that, like Grakata that is totally worthless regardless of anything).

 

So far only Soma has this nice progression, other weapons are either total crap (not worth being used after they gave you the mastery), nearly exactly the same (most heavy melee weapons), or total pwnage since the beginning.

 

Also, I'm a lot for the weapon-specific mods ala exploding arrows and the mods for the glaive, as that allows them to give SPECIFIC weapons better SPECIFIC properties without people piling those mods up on their Acrid and calling it a day.

 

But of course if you add more mods they need to make a slightly smarter mod dropping algorithm, that knows what weapons you have in your inventory or with you and drops dramatically the chances to get useless mods, or it is Void Missions Drops Screwup all over again.

Edited September 23, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[GrilledSalmonWithLemon]

P.S. In response to the guy with the Grakata - honestly, I don't think you can be too upset.

The Grakata requires absolutely no mastery rank to build and

 

1: doesn't come close to the material requirements of the Soma,

 

 

so to me it stands to reason that the Soma *should* be better than the Grakata.

2: If you put the same amount of effort into the Soma as your Grakata, it would be insane.

A fully loaded Grakata with potato, maxed mods, and 7 forma isn't even half the effectiveness of a maxed default Soma/Despair/Hikou/Acrid/etc... the list goes on, this system is broken. Using Warframes doesn't require master ranks... imagine how stupid it would be if it did, this idea that weapons should is similarly stupid. Material drops on certain planets should open the possibilities for weapon-builds not how many hours one devotes them-self to this game.

 

1: You are flat-out wrong on this. Grakata is a weapon I built during update 7 when Alloy Plate was a serious pain in the @(*()$ &#! to farm, and you could only farm this material 7 maybe if you were lucky 16 at a time.  Grakata costs 25,000 credits Soma costs 15,000. Neurodes were also a pain in the &#! to farm which Grakata requires 2. Morphics is much easier to farm than Neurodes, Comparatively Grakata was 500 times more difficult to farm for than Soma, thanks to allow plate. The drops rates have changed significantly, Grakata is ignored... If the premise behind this game is to flood the market with weapons which outdate previous weapons then goodbye I don't want to waste more time on this game. Steam 1154 hours. 2 accounts (my friends account I also paid for and help farm stuff)... 110 euro plus... This game should welcome new players, not discourage time investment. If I would have known the requirement of getting weapons and time needed to unlock features, I would have never started playing. IF this continues I will advise new players to not waste their time and avoid this Freemium game.

 

2: Right now you are saying "Soma" What will the new update weapon be, and after that update and the next? Realize there is no end until we all have "Soma" and the game will suck ballz because we all are running around with maxed OP Novas, and OP Somas...

 

It doesn't matter what weapon you choose, if the game were following rules of excellent game design the player would be rewarded for their efforts had they chosen ANY WEAPON. Not just the current update hot new shiny weapon... we'll see how long this Lasts until the new Soma2.0 comes out.

Edited September 23, 2013 by GrilledSalmonWithLemon

[Lemartes1228]

I agree and disagree. The problem I have with the Soma isn't that it has crazy damage *potential* - it's that the Soma compared to just about every other weapon in the game is extremely easy to get to that level of insane DPS without too much work.

 

I have both the Supra and the Soma, both of them at level 30 and both with 5 polarity slots and potato'd. The Soma absolutely DESTROYS my Supra in every single measurable way and the Supra was waaaay more difficult to build and get to that level. My Supra required me to get to mastery rank 7, then get all the materials to research it and then even more materials to build it. After I did all that, I had to level it, potato it, foma it, relevel it, forma it, etc. until I could get in the maximum potential DPS loadout. The Supra on the other hand comes pre-loaded with two V polarities (arguably the most useful ones), does not require a high mastery rank, and is pretty easy to craft and obtain materials for. To be able to get 5 polarity slots in it I only had to forma it 3 times plus it didn't require any initial forma to build. Not only that, it will roughly double the amount of DPS of my Supra plus it's hitscan whereas the Supra has projectile travel time making it much harder to aim across distances. Oh, and the Soma has greater accuracy in general when compared to the Supra, a shorter wind up time, faster reload and a bigger clip size.

 

The reason I have been comparing these two weapons is to give the most  fair representation possible. Both guns are of the same class (heavy machine gun types with large clip sizes, a wind up time, and fairly high base firing rate). I don't care that the Soma is this good - I like it a lot and it is my default gun for most purposes aside from defense missions which I bring my Ogris to. I hope they DON'T nerf it because I do like it a lot. I just wish that it didn't make other weapons that I worked really hard for look silly when it it is so easy to get in comparison. I really liked the Supra and got to Mastery Rank 7 just so that I could build it - it looks really cool, I love the laser projectile and animation and everything else about it except for the fact that it is VASTLY outclassed by another gun of a similar type that is so much easier to get a hold of. I think either buffing similar weapons or putting a much higher mastery rank on the Soma would be a good call.

 

Hopefully this puts it into perspective a little bit better for those of you who are not at a high mastery rank or do not have one or both of those weapons.

 

P.S. In response to the guy with the Grakata - honestly, I don't think you can be too upset. The Grakata requires absolutely no mastery rank to build and doesn't come close to the material requirements of the Soma, so to me it stands to reason that the Soma *should* be better than the Grakata. If you put the same amount of effort into the Soma as your Grakata, it would be insane.

Look at this guy he knows what hes talking about. The Soma needs a nerf. Why because it is undoubtedly the perfect gun. There is no reason to use any other gun if you have the Soma. It has perfect accuracy, the biggest clip(even bigger than the Gorgan which is an LMG while the Soma is a assault rifle), can be brought with plat for easy access. Now sure its damage is terrible but when you take 300% crit damage and a very high crit chance AND mods on top of that you start critting for 4k-7k. Thats is absurdly ridiculous for a gun in this game. No gun execpt the synapse rifle(which is much harder to get) comes close. The Soma is built for power gamers. With a Soma theres no point to use any other gun because it adopts the best out of every gun but no weakness. Accuracy of a sniper, clip of a LMG, fire rate of a SMG, and absurd crit damage. My friend can solo the J-2000 golem with his Soma.

I heard they weren't going to nerf it, yet nerfing it would solve many problems in the future. If they keep their promise then everyone will eventually just get a Soma and complain th game isn't hard enough. The devs then buff all the enemies to keep players challeged. New update comes, new warframes, weapons, mods, etc. Players don't buy new weapons because they can't compare to the Soma. Devs then buff weapons more than Soma. Rinse and repeat. If they nerf the Soma then they wouldn't have to do all of that. They need to keep everything consistent. Its like if they release Nova with Frost's shields and armor with Ash's health. Thats around 1200+ for both hp and shielding, and 300+ armour with maxed mods. Add that with her array of crazy spells and everyone will want her. Please nerf the Soma the gun itself is a mockery of the other guns.

[LazyKnight]

 

I can solo golem with a hind just as easily. I haven't bothered even using another primary weapons, other than leveling up crap for mastery, and only used my Vandal snipetron as a place holder. This entire primary line up outside of the sniper weapons are either underpowered or not worth keeping beyond mastery. Shotguns are at least useable, but the only good one that a new player has access to is Sobek.

 

Nothing soma can do something like despair or acrid wasn't already doing. I hate this crap bullets sponge NPC and do not care if DE just makes the NPC dangerous and easy to kill. Weak weapon do not fit in a fast paced game.

Edited September 24, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Blazer-X]

Just answering to original topic here (didn't bother to follow the ongoing argument)

 

I think the Soma could use a SLIGHT nerf. Reduce the Crit Multiplier to 275% and the Crit chance to 30%. This would bring its max Crit Multiplier to 7.7x and Crit chance to 75% (which is still absurdly high). This would nerf the Soma to about 80% of its current power.

 

Sounds like a heavy nerf? Consider this: even with this "huge damage nerf", it will still out-DPS the Flux Rifle in terms of armor ignoring damage simply from 60% of its base damage from Piercing Hit. Yes, even at 160% armor ignoring damage (with Piercing Hit), the Flux Rifle can't catch up to 60% of a nerfed Soma that has 80% of its current damage. (In other words, 160% AI damage from Flux Rifle < 48% AI damage from current SOMA)

 

Even with a nerf like this, the Soma could still stand as a very viable Rank 7 weapon.

[GrilledSalmonWithLemon]

srry, but i want to be rewarded for reaching mastery rank 9 with a gun that kills stuff much faster and at higher lvls than a rankless lato....

We have in mind the same concept, the only difference is that you associate this reward in a tier system of unlocking a more powerful different weapon. My suggestion is to give the reward but in the weapon of your choosing. Chasing endless ranks is wasteful, treasure the weapons themselves and not the next new one to come out with each update (inflation of weapons with chasing OP weapons at higher ranks undermines the majority of weapons which then become useless). For the most parts the mods make or break the weapon, it is only when everything is totally maxed out or default start are they drastically different.

 

I will recycle your sentence and show you the context I mean:

"srry, but i want to be rewarded for using 7 forma with a gun that kills stuff much faster and at higher lvls"

 

 

Rank ≠ Skill

 

Hours of playing and diversity of experience in the game = Skill

 

Rank is gained by leveling Warframes and weapons, doing this is not an accurate way of referencing someone's skill at the game.

[Gaborit]

SOMA FOREVER!!!

[Reaver_X]

i say u don't know what ur talking about, tiered weapons are present in almost all online games and were present long before in even early rpgs, i mean can u seriously tell me that u expect that u should be able to beat end game enemies with your rusty dagger? If u can seriously say that,Then you have no concept of progression in video games at all.

[ElementLordofMilk]

Flawless?

Try using it without a crit build and get back to us on that.

[AscendantWyvern]

Flawless?

Try using it without a crit build and get back to us on that.

Doesnt take two brain cells to put two, maybe three if you have hammershot, maxed crit mods on a weapon. Edited September 25, 2013 by AscendantWyvern

[Eragorth]

A Lato that shoots fire armor piercing multishotted triple damage dealing bullets is hardly a rusty dagger. Was it originally? yes. With mods no which is the true progression of the game leveling and acquiring mods for different situationally better weapons ( in a perfect world all weapons would have a purpose with the right mods) weapons outclassing each other makes the buy platinum button more and more appealing to new players sure but how long are vets going to keep dropping cash for potatoes and the next best weapon when they know every time they do it will be worthless in a month.My point being if you put time and effort into the weapon who's play style you enjoy you should be rewarded by being able to use it to clear the game or at the very least be able to use it to aquire a weapon of the same play style who is a direct upgrade (prime weapons) a system in which max formaing a weapon primed it keeping its potatoe in the process I feel would make everyone happy you get your progression as well as the play style you enjoy while never feeling like your time was wasted. On topic anyone using a Soma will tell you it's an ammo eater at high levels fully modded meaning all that dps won't mean much when the mags run empty and trust me they do meaning the requirement of a good bullet-damage ratio secondary and good ammo conservation ( no hammering on that 21 fire rate trigger) to stay relevant in a long defense this can also be remedied by ammo mutation and such which is again another part of progression weapons in this game are not some average rpg stat stick they are play styles in which we should have a choice in which we want to utilize based on personal taste and situation. TLDR The Soma is not the answer to everything and is simply a well implemented situational weapon that progresses well with mods that more weapons we currently have should be like. More weapons outclassing each other will only bring that big pile of guns each bigger then the last falling down so to speak. TLDR TLDR Don't nerf the soma make everything else viable and or situational

Edited September 25, 2013 by Eragorth

[onemoonlight]

i say u don't know what ur talking about, tiered weapons are present in almost all online games and were present long before in even early rpgs, i mean can u seriously tell me that u expect that u should be able to beat end game enemies with your rusty dagger? If u can seriously say that,Then you have no concept of progression in video games at all.

 

Just because something is present in ALL THE things does not mean it is flawless. I mean, why on earth arent we still using single core CPUs? Back in the day, every single CPU was single core! Who dared make more than 1 core and messed everything up?

 

Why not make something different?

 

In each and every game out there you farm equipment. What if you like a weapon from 10 levels ago - just love the way it looks and works, but you have to replace it with something else that you think looks like S#&amp;&#036;, just because "progression"?

 

Why not base the progression on the mod system? You get to use whatever weapons you want, because all of them would be viable. It's the mods that we would be farming and crafting.

[HAYABU5A]

critical rate nerf incoming 

[Reaver_X]

critical rate nerf incoming 

 

lol, no

[Reaver_X]

Just because something is present in ALL THE things does not mean it is flawless. I mean, why on earth arent we still using single core CPUs? Back in the day, every single CPU was single core! Who dared make more than 1 core and messed everything up?

 

Why not make something different?

 

In each and every game out there you farm equipment. What if you like a weapon from 10 levels ago - just love the way it looks and works, but you have to replace it with something else that you think looks like S#&$, just because "progression"?

 

Why not base the progression on the mod system? You get to use whatever weapons you want, because all of them would be viable. It's the mods that we would be farming and crafting.

 

if u like the way the weapon looks then by all means keep it, use it at lower lvls if u want like i do, but i save the big guns for the high lvls. I pretty much collect all the gear i come across.

 

the system isn't flawless, but unlike the other things u mentioned, it has worked, and it still does work.